How to Avoid Burnout and Your Emotional Well-being At Work with AdaPia d’Errico [Episode #609]
This week’s topic is: How to Avoid Burnout and Your Emotional Well-being At Work with AdaPia d’Errico
I am so excited to have my very special guest, AdaPia d’Errico, who is a respected entrepreneur and businesswoman, an executive mentor, and a powerful keynote speaker. Listen in as AdaPia shares her suggested tips on how to integrate work, business life, emotional wellbeing and spirituality, and start living from a place of truth as a human being rather than ‘human doing.’
Ada’s perspective around the idea of productivity…
Human doing vs human being…
Why taking space is so vital to receive inspiration…
Making time for stillness…
Practical ideas for productivity…
Integration of work, business life, emotional wellbeing and spirituality…
About AdaPia d’Errico
AdaPia d’Errico is a real estate executive, investor, and advisor who embodies vulnerability, resilience, and enlightened leadership. As her career took her from the Okanagan Valley to Silicon Valley and a few countries in between, she never stopped seeking her highest potential (and her higher Self). AdaPia is a powerful keynote speaker who is tapped for her expertise in entrepreneurship, investing, innovation, and authentic leadership.
She believes that wealth in the right hands changes the World and that taking wealth creation into your own hands changes your life! AdaPia is passionate about empowerment – from financial to spiritual. In her book, Productive Intuition: Connecting to the Subtle, she shares personal stories and science that offer practical ways of accessing the wisdom of the body, heart, emotions, mind, and spirit so we can bring our whole self to every area of life, especially in work and business.
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Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Kimberly: 00:01 Hi Beauties. And welcome back to our Monday interview podcast. I am very, very excited for today’s show where we’re going to redefine productivity. So if you feel like, Ugh, this to-do list, I never get enough done. And you’re just experiencing burnout from constantly feeling like you’re pushing, pushing, pushing into more productivity, but it doesn’t really feel like you’re getting as much done today is going to be an amazing, amazing show for you. We also tend to fragment different parts of our lives, whether it’s wellness over here and then work over here, relationships so on and so forth. And when we bring everything together to feel more aligned, we feel more flow and life just feels a lot more, truly productive and truly fulfilling. And who I discuss this with today is the wonderful at a Pia Jericho. She is the author of productive intuition, connecting to the subtle.
Kimberly: 01:00 She is also a boss lady. She is a real estate executive investor advisor speaker, and she so beautifully weaves together. Her work in finance with real awareness and mindfulness and spirituality. And I think when we, again, worked to align all the different parts of our lives, and we bring that energy of us, of the true self into all aspects, it’s amazing how much more fulfilling our lives become. And again, everything just feels like it flows so much easier, but before we get into our show today, I want to give a quick shout out to our fan of the week and his or her name is MI Monte 77. And he or she writes, I have learned so much about nutrition, meditation, spirituality, and body. I love the four cornerstones concept. Kimberly helps to understand it in a very simple manner. It is so inspiring. Well, me Monsey 77.
Kimberly: 02:04 Thank you so, so much. My love for being in our community, being on the journey together, I send you so much love wherever you are. Thank you. Thank you so much for your review and for being parts of the path, being part of the community and my lust for your chance to be shouted out as our fan of the week. Please just take a moment or two out of your day and leave us a review on iTunes. If you screenshot your review now as well and send it over to were email@example.com, we will send you a whole little mini course, seven self-love affirmations, and there’s a little talk I give with each one and then the process. And it’s a really wonderful program for starting to really, uh, reprogram some limiting beliefs that you may have. It’s a process that I work with myself. So I’m really excited to share it with you.
Kimberly: 03:04 So again, to screenshot your review, send it over to firstname.lastname@example.org and we will get that over to you. And while you’re over there, please be sure to subscribe to our show. And that way you don’t miss out on any of these Monday interviews, Thursday Q&A shows, and some, hopefully some real wisdom that can benefit your life. In some way, we don’t know which you know which part or which little piece might really resonate with you. So it’s really good to stay tuned and to stay in that flow with subscription. All right. My loves all that being said. Let’s get right into our show today with miss AdaPia d’Errico.
Interview with AdaPia d’Errico
Kimberly: 00:01 Hi love. I’m so excited. You’re here in the pod room in the woman cave. We’re doing it. Oh, well, it’s just great to have this conversation and to be able to share it, you and I have many conversations about all these different things, so it’s just, it’s nice, um, to have a friend that, you know, I connect with on all this stuff so deeply. So thank you for coming and being part of the conversation. So we talk about so many things love. Um, I guess we’ll just, we’ll jump right in with this idea in your, um, book title. I want to go right off the top productive. So I think that we, you know, we live in a world right now where there’s so much burnout and I’m also talking about burnout because it’s our theme this month in the circle and the Solluna Circle, it’s thriving and avoiding burnout.
Kimberly: 01:00 And when I look around, it’s like, oh my gosh, there’s so much that’s packed in. And now it’s fall. And this week I brought Eve to kindergarten for the first time, which is a big one. And so I think, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a little bit of a delicate topic because so many of us put our self-worth in doing and so productivity kinds of, it becomes a measure of our self-worth like, did I do enough in a day? Am I productive enough? Did I check enough off? But then it’s like a lot of it’s like, you know, it feels very masculine, like going down the to-do list and it feels very linear. Um, and sometimes it’s like busy work instead of being in like your, the flow of what is, you know, happening. Um, I’m a very non-linear person. So sometimes in the morning, I just, you know, like, I feel like I’m going to do this work instead of, you know, this I’m called more to this. So anyways, can you tell us a little bit about this idea of productivity from your perspective? I’m so glad you write in right.
Ada’s perspective around the idea of productivity
AdaPia : 02:10 This, the, start this from the top, I invite people to redefine productivity, which is what I did in, um, in the book because productivity, as we define it in the west is quantitative. It’s like you said, how much have I done? Time is money. It’s very linear. It’s very masculine, but in reality, productivity can also be equated with generativity, with creativity. Productivity is what you make of it. We’re just so defined by our culture and by those around us. And that’s why we have burnout because especially in American and like you, like, I’ve lived in many places in the world where cultures are very different. They have a very different idea, right?
Kimberly: 02:55 And you lived in Italy for, in you’re Italian or your parents are, you speak, you’re fluent in Italian. I love Wow. So,
AdaPia : 03:04 You know, and I lived in, and I lived in Europe in total for about 11 years in three different countries in Europe. And the idea of productivity there is different. I mean, people take vacation and it’s sacred.
Kimberly: 03:15 Well, and also the lunches are long, but how is that? You know, again, going back to redefining it, like you say, you know, I’m creative, but you know, it’s, we can’t put the same measurements and then it’s like, then we want to do, but then we want to have enough stillness and time to be. So then you can’t really measure beingness as, you know, productive or not. So then I think it gets like
Human doing vs human being
AdaPia : 03:39 You can get, it can get messy. I mean, I think there’s this really great way of thinking about it is we live like human doings instead of human beings where we’re just doing, doing, doing, doing, but productivity. You mentioned flow when we’re in a state of flow. If we take productivity as like quantitative output, when we’re in a state of flow, we get more done. We’re trying to force it. And that’s, I think one of the problems with productivity in the west
Kimberly: 04:05 It’s pushing. Yeah. When
AdaPia : 04:09 I’m also very non-linear and I can get a lot done, quote unquote, without it being assigned to a time slot,
Kimberly 3: 04:17 Right? Like we were
AdaPia : 04:18 Like, even with the book, like I was able to write the book and finish the book in a relatively short period of time, if you think about it in time, because it was just, it was a good time for it to flow, but I started that thing in 2018 and it just wasn’t coming through. So I could have thought to myself and I did like, I’m not successful. I’m not getting it done. I’m not productive. I’m, you know, but in reality, it wasn’t the right time and the hard place for us to, to land in ourselves to know when is the right time to do something for the output that I’m seeking. And that output could be, I need some time to myself because I need to, I need to do my meditation. I need to get centered so that when I go into an action, I’m coming from the right place instead of rolling from one action into the next and never really having a centered place from which to take action. Yeah.
Kimberly: 05:14 I mean, I think it’s, it’s the way things, um, inspiration comes in many different forms. It looks very different for different people. I was reflecting when you were saying that about this last book for me, which came down when I was 34 weeks pregnant with Moses was like the most inconvenient time. I was very pregnant and Bubby, you know, with the pandemic, he wasn’t in school. So I just had my hands full with everything going on. But it really, um, your, this discernment you’re talking about, it was so strong in my heart. It said this book wants to come through it. Wasn’t an external, like I need to do, you know, checking off the list or it’s time, like how long it’s been. Since I wrote another book, it’s time now it came from the inside. And so, um, that energy, like pouring out, allowed the book to flow.
Kimberly: 06:06 So what would you say love is, you know, for me getting into that flow state and feeling like quote unquote, like truly productive, um, it means not being rigid. And I talked about this a little bit on, um, on our recent Q&A podcast we had, um, was, you know, like we have this like list of things to do, but our energy changes every day. So maybe it’s like related to our moon cycle or menstrual cycle or, you know, whatever emotionally or relationship stuff. But, you know, some days I just think I’m not really up for recording the podcast or doing videos sometimes I want to be more inward and right. So I think it’s like you said, having some, some space.
Why taking space is so vital to receive inspiration
AdaPia : 06:45 Yeah. It’s, it’s all in the space. We have to be able to take the space, to receive our own inspiration and receive the messages from our higher self and from our transcendent intelligence, from our intuition, if we are constantly inaction, moving in activity, we’re not open to receive we’re in a different modality.
Kimberly: 07:05 What would you say to someone who’s like I’m so, um, I had a question come in from someone who is a full-time university student and she’s working full time. And, you know, we talked about, you know, trying to wake up 15 minutes earlier to do her morning practice and her meditation and a little bit of journaling. What would you say to someone that’s like, yeah, that sounds nice. The stillness in the space, but I’m really busy. [inaudible]
AdaPia : 07:29 I would say, cause I’ve been there with like university and working full time at the same time, you know, doing two degrees and all of it is, is you can do it. It’s a choice. This is, and I know it’s hard for people to hear, but saying, I can’t means it’s true. You can
Kimberly 3: 07:48 Make a different choice. I will
AdaPia : 07:50 Try, let me try it for a week or two weeks, because you can always find time in your day. Like you always can. And it in 15 minutes, isn’t that much. Exactly. Give it
Kimberly: 08:04 A try. Well, I w I think it’s carving it out with intention. Um, cause like, listen, 15 minutes, it’s like, you’re watching Netflix in 15 minutes, goes like that, or it’s just, you know, we talk about intention a lot. You and I, so if like our intention is to create stillness, we find a way and I create a lot of stillness and I’m with these, you know, the craziness of a one-year-old and a five-year-old and the podcast and the book and the business and all this stuff. So I say, I could do it, anyone listening to this it’s true. It’s
Making time for stillness
AdaPia : 08:34 True. It seems like peoples, I remember a, a dear friend of ours. Um, Erica, she was, we were having this conversation. We were walking and talking and I was telling her about what I do. Cause I’m an investor. I mentor, advise companies and startups and do real estate. And you know, we were kind of talking about it. Cause like you, we, you know, we talk about our inner work, not our, not our outer work, kind of giving her some things. And she said, wow. She said, you do a lot. And yet you have all this time, my practices. And she said, she said, that’s an amazing place that I would like to be. And I, and I really reflected on that because that’s the normal life for me that I’ve created. And I have multitudes of things going on and I have so much space in my life. I know space is a requisite. It’s the only reason I can do all of those things is because of the space over here that I’ve made. It’s true. They can’t, they’re not separate.
Kimberly: 09:28 It’s true. I really feel like, you know, for me, stillness comes in my meditations. It comes in my journaling time, which I find a way, you know, the baby’s napping now, now Bobby’s going to be in kindergarten, but like, he’d be eating breakfast and I would find the time. And then I do my hour walk and that’s like my sacred time where ideas come. So it’s amazing. Like you can find these, these pockets and then you also have to let go of stuff. I mean, I don’t watch TV. I’m honest about that. I don’t own a TV, John. My husband will watch shows sometimes on the iPad, but I’m just not that drawn to it as much. You know, sometimes we’ll all watch movies. Yeah. We’ll watch movies as a family sometimes. Like we’ll divide them over a few days, but, um, you know, it’s, I think it’s intention and, um, prioritizing because sometimes, you know, whether it’s the TV or whether it’s online shopping or just scrolling on social media, if we don’t really claim that stillness time is a really real priority, then that’s when we start to feel like, eh, like I’m fighting this productivity battle and I don’t have any stillness and I’m feeling really frazzled and I’m stressed and I definitely don’t have the spaciousness you guys are talking about.
AdaPia : 10:44 Where do you go? When that happens? You go to, um, distraction, you go to food,
Kimberly: 10:51 All the food cravings, I’m
AdaPia : 10:52 A stress eater. You go to food, you go to distractions like social media and you can spend an hour scrolling. And you’ve no idea what just happened. And so one of the ways that I’ve reclaimed a lot of time for myself as it relates to intention, and also for me, meaning like the meaning behind something is even, I don’t post that much on social media anymore. I’ve been, I’ve been really focused on my client work. And so I’m really focused there and I realized that I was telling myself I needed to post more often. And in reality, you don’t exactly. It’s like these things, like
Kimberly: 11:27 We feel like we have to do isn’t that amazing. And there’s like, I think if each of us were to look at our, um, you know, lives and a lot of the, all the places we put energy, there’d probably be a lot of things we can cut out and outsource and delegate. Um, and for me that has been a really big, important theme. We’ve hired some more people at Solluna and just, just, I feel like there’s more people helping me be organized and that’s really important.
Practical ideas for productivity
AdaPia : 11:58 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I was actually going to say like, for people who are, want practical ideas for like, you know, productivity, if you will, like something that, that I implement a lot is I live by my calendar. So everything is in my calendar. I have a home calendar with Andrew, with my husband and I have my other calendars on my work calendar. And I block off time. Like, you cannot get ahold of me. I have a Calendly.
AdaPia : 12:23 So people can book calls with me. And so you cannot get ahold of me certain, certain times. And those are blocked off. I have times for like research or writing or, you know, different things. And then I have, I have time when it’s my me time.
Kimberly: 12:38 And I think, you know, when kids come into the equation and I can speak to the side of it, there is still that conscious, like, okay, my kids had a play date or now he’s he or she is in school or he or she is like playing by themselves. And so, um, I can say, you know, even if we have these little tiny bosses over our time, like, you know, I, I found it to really like, you know, for me, this podcast works around nap time. And so like, and same thing with my stillness time. And, you know, I think it’s important to enlist partners, husbands, roommates, whoever, when we’re, when we have that intention, just to let it be known, like, Hey, I’m looking to create more stillness. I’m looking for this because it’s nice to share that. And then, you know, people respect it and it starts to, um, just feels nice to enlist the community, I think is another aspect of it because people don’t realize like, you know, if you say to your partner, I’ve said this to John, like he knows like my meditation is so important. Like I need you to like help with this and like do this and dah, dah, dah. So I have this time. And so again, sharing our needs, which isn’t always the easiest thing for women, but like really vocalizing it and prioritizing it, I think is part of this as well.
AdaPia : 13:55 Huge part of it. I’m really glad you brought that up. Like enlisting help. Isn’t massive. Yeah. Really important.
Kimberly: 14:02 Um, another aspect love that, you know, I love what you do. You talked about you’re in real estate finance and, um, you know, you work with clients and yet, you know, you and I talk a lot about the inner world and here, as you know, our cornerstones for, for true beauty and wellness, like this real, what we’re talking about, really reaching your highest potential, our food, body, emotional wellbeing and spiritual growth. So it’s really, you know, seeing the, the wholeness within us and all the different layers and all the different aspects. And we want to bring that, um, whole ism, I think it to all parts of our life. So I know for me really taking this approach has helped me be the best mom it’s helped me, you know, in my writing, it just like showing up for friends. And sometimes I think, you know, we fragments like here’s how I eat and then here’s my, but the, this idea of oneness and integration is everything coming together.
Integration of work, business life, emotional wellbeing and spirituality
Kimberly: 14:56 And that includes, um, our emotional wellbeing and mental health and spiritual, uh, growth, which again, sometimes people get tripped up on that word. It’s, you know, for us, we talk about awareness. Spirituality is really awareness, awaking up to like, just your true self underneath the surface, but we want to bring those aspects of ourselves into work. We don’t want to feel like, okay, here’s the real me. And then at work, I have to be this person and I have to shut down parts of who I am. So, you know, tell us, love this integration of work business life and the emotional spiritual. It’s a very interesting mashup because usually people fragment them, but they don’t have to be frightened.
AdaPia : 15:43 Yeah. And it’s been, it’s been a fun couple of years of, for me integrating that. Um, and, and I just, at this point I just really own it. And I own it to such a degree that when I meet people in what I do in business, is it, it does something to them where it gives them this kind of magical, almost magical, like permission when they start to open up to me about, you know, their personal or spiritual, like their beliefs. But
Kimberly 4: 16:13 Do you lead with it? Do you, I mean, how do you, yeah, I almost, I almost do,
AdaPia : 16:19 Like when I meet somebody too, for the first time, I’m, I’m not like a, how are you? I’m like, who are you? I really want to get to know who you are and often, um, it just ends up going in that place because I’m so authentic. And I’m so genuine in my approach to people of really wanting to, to, because it’s about building trust. I mean, especially when you work in investments, there are so many things that happen out there, fraud, and it’s really important to, to, to know that you need to earn their trust. And I believe you can only do that if you’re authentic, if you really genuinely who you are. And so I can equally talk about the finances and the return structure of something and, and like somehow get into a conversation about what it is that they are seeking by investing. There’s a lot of times, if I’m speaking to my, uh, a lot of my clients are doctors is they want more time. They’re, they’re burnt out. All these doctors are so burnt out. And so they’re looking for ways to make passive income so that they can work less and be more effective at being doctors and moms. And, you know, and so it’s really like, it’s not about the money or the thing it’s really about what it provides for them. And that’s where I go.
Kimberly: 17:31 Exactly. Like it doesn’t mean like we show up when we say, Hey, I’m a spiritual person. Like these labels it’s in that beingness. So, you know, when I was working with clients all the time and it’s come full circle now, because, you know, with this book, the first book came out 10 years ago and it was, you know, um, nutrition forward. But back then, and I said, this, you know, the first book proposal, and I’ve told you, this was never meant to be the VDD talk solution. When I started working with my editor, it was actually a travel memoir from my backpacking. And she said, well, let’s, let’s do that one next. Let’s do this nutrition part. That’s really popping off on your blog. But always from the beginning, it was this much more holistic way. And when I would work with clients, I knew the reason I could help them so much was I knew it wasn’t about the food. You know, it was really about what was going on emotionally and mental health wise. And, you know, again, spiritually, when we’re spiritually hungry, we seek it in other ways like fulfillment in a external relationship or with food or whatever. So it always just felt, um, for me, like you said, showing up and really wanting to know what’s going on with someone and looking in their eyes and like seeing feeling, and being with them. Right. So that’s that like a spiritual part is that, that awareness that awakened. Yeah. I was
AdaPia : 18:53 Going to say it comes from the awareness of having done our own work because, you know, just really quickly, like I started working in a bank when I was 18. I was very ambitious. I mean, I’m still ambitious, but in a different way. And so I had this career and I was going for it and my whole identity was tied to my ability to succeed and climbing the ladder and all the things that, that, that I thought mattered. And then as, as you know, when I, I basically committed career suicide in, in 2017. And that was really alongside of this awakening where my whole identity that I had built up my whole life just came apart. And I didn’t know who I was. Cause you quit your job. Yeah. I quit. I was at the pinnacle of my career in a goal and I, and I, and I quit because you weren’t happy.
AdaPia : 19:45 It was such a strong, it was, it was so much, I mean, there was so much going on and in, in a really simple way, like I couldn’t succeed. Like nothing that I was doing was working, which was not even a thing that I could imagine. I’ve never not been able to make things work. And then, and I, and I was burnt out there. It goes that burnout. Yeah. Well, you know, it was all there. And the only place I could really go, even though I tried to continue to externalize it, like, I’ll be a consultant, I’ll be a coach. I’ll be a blogger. Cause I thought I had to leave the business world to come over here and have an impact. Cause I was really being opened up from the heart around the purpose. And I thought I would, I needed to be somebody else to, to make an impact in people’s lives and that whole process. And that’s when we met and I was on rambling and I was doing the only place I could go was inside myself to understand at a fundamental level, what are my values. And that was in, started that journey for me of coming into myself first, before I could come out with purpose. Uh, we,
Kimberly: 20:54 We met at a time of great transition for both of us. I think I had just, um, fairly recently, um, oh wait, I guess, I don’t know if I remember if I met you before or after Bobby and my dad, uh, Debbie and his dad had split up like it was happening. Right. So I was like, my identity was like, oh my God. Now I’m living by myself and I’m a single mom and what’s going on in my life. And I had, you know, recently lost my mom. So sometimes we go to that rock bottom place and it, you know, the ego and our identity has to crack to be able to rebuild and to take a fresh look at ourselves and realize I’m not just what I do. And it’s running around in this hustling. It’s, you know, it’s like, what is the point of this? You know, really what is the point exactly.
AdaPia : 21:47 Like what’s the intention. So it’s like kind of comes back to that idea of like, why am I doing this? Like, what is my, what is my true intention? And when I got really clear on my values and my intentions, I also was able to unravel really this, this a massive amount of embedded shame around money because we are, that is in the money field. And, um, and I’m back in it. And this is the thing is that my intentions, the whole time, even though I judged myself incorrectly, my intentions, the whole time were around empowering myself and freedom and being able to make a difference. I a hundred percent believe that money wealth in the right hands changes
Speaker 3: 22:31 The world. And that
AdaPia : 22:34 Has taken me my whole life.
What to do when you’re experiencing burnout
Kimberly: 22:36 Well, it’s just energy. Yeah. It’s not, it’s neither good nor bad it’s energy. And it’s how we use it. And our relationship with it, just like anything else. Um, and globally, I mean the collective, we’re seeing such a big evaluation with the pandemic. You know, I was reading this article, I think in ink magazine, it was some crazy statistic, you know, high amount of people, not going back to work, changing their jobs resigning. So again, let’s say, you said, you know, someone’s taken a step back and they’re like, you know, my job, no way it doesn’t fulfill me anymore. Um, I’m experiencing burnout. Oh, how do we, you know, then transition. Like for me, it’s always like, we take that sacred pause and we go inside. But you know, someone may say, well, practically, like I have to, I don’t know how to do that. I’ve been numb to myself or I had to rush into the next thing for it. Cause I need the money.
AdaPia : 23:37 It’s really hard. And it’s, there’s not like a, like a hard, like here’s how to do it. Kind of an answer. Um, it, what you said, like the very first thing is take out, take a pause. And if that’s like every day and you might be journaling, like, what are my, like, what is driving me? Like, what are my desires? Like, am I, am I being driven right now by fear? Am I being driven by, by hope and love? Like, what are my values? What are my intentions? What am I seeking? What’s meaningful to me and having that dialogue with yourself. And sometimes there’s going to be situations where you have to move fast and that’s okay. Like you got to flow with it too. Right? If somebody is, you know, they’re, it’s called the great resignation right now, where a lot of people are just jobs.
AdaPia : 24:23 And, and, and it’s also a humongous opportunity because getting clear on your values and your intentions means that when you go to the next place that you’re seeking, you’re not just seeking it because of the role or the title or the money you’re seeking an alignment of your values and your intentions with somebody else. And that’s, what’s going on is that people realize like I am not aligned. I am not being properly treated. This is not how I want to live my life. And so know that there are really good people that you can align to. And they, in a way, I really believe they have to earn you. Yes. Yeah.
Kimberly: 25:03 I feel like, you know, part of this unpacking of stepping back also can bring up things like, wow, like this wasn’t ever something I ever believed in, in the first place, but this is something that I did to please my parents or something that was really their value. You know, I grew up love my, both. My parents were in finance and like all my other family members, people around were in finance. And I remember, you know, this is back in college. My mom encouraging me to go to the like finance job fair. I remember, you know, back then I was 17 and I didn’t have like, the, the communication skills were getting really angry.
Kimberly: 25:42 And just kind of like shutting down and being like no way. So I didn’t have the maturity to like fully express myself, but I was like, no way. And then, you know, being, being the wild child rebel, like after I graduated from Georgetown, I did backpack for three years. I went the opposite, you know, and from, you know, there’s a lot in there, but, um, you know, I think about that, like, I, I, I give myself credit because I, I remember just like it was, so it felt so wrong in my heart that I couldn’t do it. Like I literally couldn’t do it, even though I was a people pleaser, a parent pleaser, I just couldn’t do it. And yet, you know, there’s, I have so many friends now and, you know, we have mutual friends that, you know, there’s this driven ness. And I think it’s like that partially with li like, you know, part of it, pleasing parents, what society expects, like what’s the safe thing to do, which get it also talk about.
Kimberly: 26:39 And it can be really hard to separate that from our true heart. And that takes time. I think it takes introspection. I think it takes sitting with it. And, um, you know, journaling has been really huge for me and also community. And this, these are the things that we talk about in the Solluna Circle. So, um, we had that community available for you guys, if you want to check it out in the Solluna app, but yeah, it’s not, like you said, it’s not just like an easy thing, but just starting to bring awareness to it and like really going into what is for you, not what’s peasant passed down from your family and other ideas externally.
AdaPia : 27:17 Yeah, yeah. And an easy way to do it is like, is this mine? Is this belief mine, where did it come from? And even just having that inquiry can keep going deeper. Yeah. You just go and then you start to see why do I believe this? And it actually becomes really easy to untangle from it. You just have to find the source of it. Um, but it is, it’s a practice like there’s this whole, all of it is a practice. I’m, I’m going to be different next week than I am today. I’m going to have new insights on myself because I’m constantly working at, on the Raveling, the conditioning, like when I’m, when something is, um, you know, when something is not, let’s say going well, or, um, I’m having a strong, emotional reaction to something I have to ask myself, why am I having that reaction? Like, and, and I recently had, um, something with, with, um, my firm, with my partners where I got triggered by something that, that, that was actually a past behavior. And I, I reacted initially in the, in my old way. And then I realized what was going on. Cause I have the awareness now and I was able to come at it from a different angle and have a different outcome because initially I was going in with this idea, this story about this is always what happens, so that’s like, it’s going to be co I mean, it is it’s constant.
Kimberly: 28:45 Well, we keep unraveling ourselves and learning more. And I will share, I had a big realization recently about, you know, again, just going into like, why, you know, w what drives this? Like, where does this come from? And I realize I’m in this, like this big healing, I feel like of my root chakra and like real safety and security, like feeling safe because a lot of my decisions were driven by like, this is a safe choice. And if I do this, I’ll be, you know, whatever it is, um, you know, safe, I’ll be okay, I’ll be protected. Um, everybody’s parents do their best, but we all get ideas, limited ideas as children to different degrees. We all have childhood trauma. Um, for me, you know, my mom, like my parents were doing their best, but my mom went back to work really, really early. I think I was three weeks old.
Kimberly: 29:37 So, you know, there was just this sense of like abandonment loss, even though I had a wonderful auntie that came from the Philippines and cared for me. And so these like very deep, you know, the deep wounds, the deep ways that we sort of construct our identity from when were Chinese, like one years old, two years old, when you can keep going, you know, deep, deep down, I feel like I’m in that layer where it’s just like, oh, like really understanding safety comes from inside of us. And so that’s been like a big unpacking and you can start to see how it plays out on like triggers and reactions and like choices we make. And I got down to that level, you know, just from the, the meditation’s, the stillness and just a lot of journaling and like asking that question like, is this yes, is in mind, it’s just like, you know, what is underneath this for me? It’s like, what is, you know, why is what’s the root of this? Like, why, why do I feel this way? Why is it so important that, you know, this happens and this happens. And underneath I realized there was this like, need to feel safe is fundamental need to feel safe and to physically safe and emotionally safe. So when we, each of us can like, get down to that, there’s great empowerment and starting to unlock what, like our key motivations are.
AdaPia : 30:54 Yeah. That’s like deep driving desire there, but there’s also, there’s also a driver that, that we’re driven by certain, even deeper than emotions. They’re, they’re literally like a drive, right. You’re getting to the bottom of that. I had that too around, um, this idea of abandonment in a different way around, um, you know, it really breaks my heart when I see the income inequality, it’s really hard for me. And I think that’s what I was carrying the guilt around, where I chose to go and where I was able to go out of a lot of privilege. And, um, and I’m aware of all of this, but I have this, like, I had a driving, the fear, abject fear of poverty. It wasn’t about money when I actually got to the root of it. It wasn’t about money at all. It was about, um, being abandoned by society and not being cared about.
Kimberly: 31:50 And underneath it. Yeah, just like a BA abandonment in general, just like not being seen. Yeah. Being just thrown, like, you know, just thrown away, thrown away. That’s what was underneath it. And when I had, when I got there, I was able to, to work out of that and that fear that I had, I was able to, to nurture it. And now it’s gone because I know that I’m safe and taken care of and love. And people would tell me practically, like, you’re not, you’re never not going to be taken care of or, or whatever. And I could point to two people in the street that nobody’s taken care of. Right. And so I was looking for reasons to validate that fear when I found out what that fear was, what, you know, my friends and family were saying like, that’s never going to be you. And I could see it was because I was just being, because it broke my heart so much. Yeah, yeah,
Kimberly: 32:42 Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s complex and there’s layers and layers and layers. And underneath that is, that is bliss. I was going to say, I say like underneath it, um, you know, one thing love or talking about productivity and you know, all this stuff and like choosing, you know, decisions and sitting one thing also that I wanted to share this very practical is sometimes, you know, our heart or our heads mess with us, like thoughts can throw us off. But one thing like I’ve really learned in the last few years is to start to go more into the body because the body has so much wisdom. So I know sometimes I get in my head and I’m like, oh, but then if I sit and I think, I think into my body, there are messages. You know, whether it’s this expansive feeling or like, it’s something in my tummy. I feel a lot in my gut, which is one of the reasons I think I used to get so constipated, I would like shut down. Right. So it’s gut for me, heart, like openness. And I’ve learned to trust more of that because I know the head can get wonky.
AdaPia : 33:49 Yeah. Yeah. It it’s in, that’s like that’s in the book, like it’s, the chapters are literally like wisdom of the mind, wisdom of emotions was in a body, was in the heart because it’s in the body. That’s where we get our signals. That’s where our intuition is. I mean, our brain is literally this or our gut. I’m sorry. It was literally the second brain. It’s considered the second brain by science.
Kimberly: 34:11 But like, so the, the body has, you know, feelings let’s in going to emotions for a minute, because I think that’s the one that a lot of people struggle with. So let’s say something happens and you get a strong emotion, but then you start to dig underneath and you’re like, oh, this is related to trauma. Or this is a trigger from something before. Um, where does the wisdom come?
AdaPia : 34:32 I think when you start to dig into it, like you’ve said, um, is to dig into it with compassion for yourself, especially when you find that it’s like a trigger or a trauma. It, it wants some attention. If it’s still there, it hasn’t been released. It hasn’t been given. So,
Kimberly: 34:46 So you were saying love, don’t identify with it, but notice that it’s there with curiosity and then try to go under the emotions.
AdaPia : 34:55 Yeah. And I think at a certain point that emotion, if it’s still there needs attention and awareness, loving awareness, because it’s there for a reason something happened. It didn’t move on. We’re not trying to dismiss like, cause that’s usually what we do in our society. And our cultures is suppress everything, pretend it didn’t happen. And, and then it stays like that, that energy, there’s an energy to emotions that stay stuck in our bodies. Yeah, no, from, from, um, you know, you’re very well versed in, in yoga and the way the movements open the body and emotions are released. So there’s, to me, it’s, it’s really, it’s always non identification. That’s so easy. That’s what the brain wants to do. It wants to identify and label and put it in a box so that it can feel safe about what it is. And in reality, all that emotion wants is to be acknowledged. And, and by acknowledging it, it gets released.
When to let go of ruminating thoughts
Kimberly: 35:51 But let’s talk about that for a minute because you know, there’s people that talk about the same, like, you know, what’s a little bit of a victim story. Like this person screwed me over and you can feel the anger coming. And then 20 years later, they’re still talking about it. Right. So it’s not being released just because we talk about something, it can actually keep it alive. So let’s talk about the difference, you know, the thoughts and Dr. Hawkins talks about this a lot, who I talk about all the time. I absolutely love him. Dr. David Hawkins, he talks about like, if you’re thinking it, it’s kind of feeding more emotions. So what we’re talking about is not the thoughts, but really feeling the sensation, not the justifications. Cause the justification is actually keep it. And you know, that’s why you see people that are in anger or grief or sadness for 20 years, you know? So this is like just going into the sensation.
AdaPia : 36:39 Yeah. It’s like, there’s the ruminating, right? That you’re constantly thinking about it. That’s your mind? This is like, I think about it is because sometimes I also don’t like, and I use it a lot too is like, oh, you know, let it like, let it go. Well, what does that mean? Let it go. You know, like it’s, it’s not that we are taking some like strong armed action to let go of some things. That’s usually our approach. Right. I’m going to let this thing go. I take a very, a type just to letting go the, what I’ve understood. And it’s really hard to, to, to put it into words is the emotion has to let go of you. It has to come up and out and through you, you just let it be there. Yes. And then, and
Kimberly: 37:22 It’s like digesting it. And sometimes it keeps coming back, you know, Hawkins says there’s the bottom to the, well, like if there’s a lot of stored things. Um, so I guess you just keep letting it be. And again, in our society, I think we have this idea that you’re not supposed to feel uncomfortable feelings, which is where the food cravings come in and the Netflix and social media and going on YouTube all the different ways. So most people probably have a big storehouse of emotions because it’s energy, right. It doesn’t just go away. It gets pushed down. It’s encrypted and it’s not as physical as like your knee or your toe, but it’s there. Exactly.
AdaPia : 38:00 And we’re, we’re trying to get a sense of, I don’t know if it’s mastery, but just, just getting to know ourselves emotionally. Like that’s a big job because it’s not how we grew up. And so that’s again, so there’s a lot of patients to, to all the process and it intertwines with, you know, mental work or subconscious reprogramming and it’s approaching it from all the different places. And I know I can overwhelm myself because I’m so intellectual and that it’s very easy for me to go up and out and to go up. Um, which is why even for me coming into my body is so important. Often when I’m spinning it out, I just need to sit. And I put my hand on the heart and this is where I go, because that place, which is a felt place, I’m just breathing into it. I always get answers.
AdaPia : 38:48 I always get answers. And, and, and even, even just, you know, physiologically, like taking a few moments like that, it’s so powerful. I mean, we always, again, society’s like do more. It has to be this big, fancy practice. It has to be this big thing. And it’s not, it’s so simple. It can be so very simple. That’s the work, even if it’s a few seconds of I’m going to breathe, I’m going to take a moment, you know, even before answering, like, you’re like, if you get angry, like I’m going to take a moment, right? Like the 10 breath rule, like those are, those are maybe cliche, but they exist for a reason.
Kimberly: 39:23 Well, and they work and now there’s signs to it. You know, the, this part of your brain, um, it’s like, you know, the reactive part of your brain to simplify it comes first, like fight or flight. And then it takes a little bit of time for the rest of your brain to come online. Like the higher thinking, the logic and the reason. So those 10 breaths can give your brain time to catch up. Yeah.
AdaPia : 39:44 Yeah. Cause it’s like, literally like you’re, it’s the, you know, the amygdala shut off the rest of your brain. So you, you actually literally are not thinking you’re in primal, you’re in primitive mode. And a lot of people are operating from that place. And that’s, that’s the concerning thing is when we’re actually being operated by a primitive mechanism and not even by a rational mind. So
Kimberly: 40:10 That’s when very bad decisions get made. And oftentimes it’s just that sacred, slowing down. Yeah. That’s all that’s really needed. Just like don’t react so quickly. Don’t identify with this emotion, which could be tied to something that’s locked in there. That’s been from a long time, just like slow down.
AdaPia : 40:35 I mean, think about how many misunderstandings, because somebody says something and we don’t really know what someone means. Right. And then we interpret it from our lens and from our issues or traumas or what have you. And then off you go into this whole big thing that was really just a misunderstanding because we’re misinterpreting everything.
Kimberly: 40:58 No, because we are in our own framework and I’ve learned this. So we’re seeing things and we kind of look at something and it fits our story because we’re coming from that place. We’re not coming from zero. And I’ve learned, I think this has been a big thing for me and John at Ella, you know, my hubby, John. And, um, we’re very different people. And somehow, you know, we really work, but like, communication-wise, you know, something happened the other day and he’s like, you know, I know it looks this way. Like, don’t be mad. And I said to him, I said, what you know, well, was it your intention to, you know, to, to, to be Carolyn whatever it was. I can’t remember the exact example. And he was like, no. And I said, you know, it’s okay. Like, let’s just communicate better. But you know, in the past I would have reacted from that literal ness, the surface.
Kimberly: 41:51 But as we start to, um, connect more to the true self it’s like we’re going down into a deeper place inside of us. It means we start to look more at the context and the bigger picture. It’s literally like our third eye growing. We’re starting to see more than just this limit newness, which is the, you know, the two physicalized we can just start to see more. And we start to give people a break and we realize, you know, language is so limited anyway, the way we communicate and it’s all formed construct. So it’s, it’s all limited. And we, we want to be in our hearts and we want to be able to connect with other people’s hearts because that’s the real truth. Absolutely.
AdaPia : 42:28 Yeah. I mean, we could have a whole other conversation about relationships cause it’s the same for me and Andrew. I mean, it’s been that relationship for me has been part of this awakening about just learning from him because the triggers that were in place before and moving past those and having the conversations and really coming from a place of the benefit of the doubt from that, from a place of compassion, because I I’m, I can also be very reactive, especially if something triggers these days, something I haven’t quite looked at yet. And I’ll notice, I’ll be, I’ll think like that really hit me hard. I got, I got to go see what that is, because that was an overreaction. What was going on and how did I interpret that? And now nowadays, a really simple practical thing is like, I heard you say this, is that what you meant?
Speaker 3: 43:20 And then that gives them, like
Kimberly: 43:21 You say, I heard you say it, like in your words, right. Is this what you said?
AdaPia : 43:26 And is this what you meant? And that’s a big one for us because, um, he uses words the wrong way. I’m like all about words and he’s like a math genius. And I’m like, that’s not what that bird means. So literal like Mo like literal use of words can, can throw us off. And because I’m so literal with words, it took a while. It took a few years for me to under, to, for us to get around that. So even something that simple is just ask for clarity, like asking for that clarification is, is such an important part of, of bonding. And it’s the same with my business partners too, where we often want it with one of them specifically, like we’re saying the same thing, and yet we’re not on the same page and everyone on the team can see it. And we see it now. And so we start some conversations with, I think we’re saying the same thing. Here’s what I’m saying. And then here’s what I’m saying. And even at a business level, and it’s not easy in work or business to have such conversations, we don’t think that you’re supposed to talk like that with your colleagues or your business partners. You are,
Spiritual awakening and awareness consciousness
Kimberly: 44:37 What’s amazing is this, you know, the spiritual awakening awareness consciousness, which is really like talking from your heart, speaking from your heart, connecting, bringing that into your workplace is so transformative. I mean, it’s everything because all of this, like surface BS and communication, that doesn’t feel good to anybody really. Like, let’s be honest. Like we want to be authentic. We want to connect. So just bringing that sense of like real presence and showing up, I think could do wonders at work in terms of flow and creativity and collaboration, and so much
AdaPia : 45:19 So important. And, and like even we could even bring it all the way back. It actually makes people more productive because you’re not so busy being someone you’re not or trying to be the person that you think other people need you to be. I mean, just from an energy perspective in time and in your own emotional resources, I mean, what kind of resources are you putting into being not who you are for other people, right. And if you, and showing up in your workplace and, and w w how you show up in the, in the world, and it doesn’t have to be work right. But if you don’t have to spend all that energy, trying to be someone you’re not, and imagine what you can do
Kimberly: 45:58 You’re right, right. And then you just connect and then you can be open because it’s the ego that’s rigid. The ego that hangs on to every word and is so literal because it’s tied to our identity. So our identity, isn’t this opinion, our identity, isn’t this way that we can sit back more and say, oh, I have my opinion. And, you know, my colleague has a different one and we’re both completely, you know, equal here. Like I can be open to this.
AdaPia : 46:26 Yeah. And the collaboration skyrockets, and, and the comraderies skyrockets and, you know, creativity, everything it’s really, it’s, it’s completely transformative. And the, and I know it can be hard. I know it can be really challenging as you know, I lead like a, a monthly round table in a women’s leadership group. And the, the monthly round table is about integrating our spiritual selves, our authentic selves into work, and really hearing each other. It’s like our own circle in a way it’s like really hearing the, the, the stories and what they’re going through and like, how do I approach this? And, and so, and, and, and there, these women are, uh, they’re thirsting for an opportunity to have these kinds of conversations, because they might not seem like work conversations. And this is like a, this is a, like an executive leadership group, but it is because you are not separate,
Kimberly: 47:25 Not separate. I mean, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s important to have that community because, um, sometimes a lot of times, you know, women and men may feel aligned with what we’re talking about, but then they go to work and then people are in very different places and they’re not there yet. So, I mean, I’ve been in that situation a lot, you know, what I used to work, um, almost exclusively in Hollywood, you know? And so there’s just like very different people in the world,
Kimberly: 47:57 Very different values, like very different ways we’re coming at things. And one thing I can know is we are in charge of ourselves. Like we are in charge of our inner state and we can’t control how something’s received, but if we stay centered and from our heart, and just bringing that awareness into our conversations, into work, you know, whether people, whatever they do, they’re going to do, but we can feel good about how we’re showing up. And, um, you know, is it virus Katie? Or I forget someone else who came in the podcast said, um, it only takes one person in a relationship to make it a conscious relationship. So even if, you know, work, there’s people that are, you know, in a different place, just really showing up authentically and slowing down and trying to connect. And all the things we’ve been talking about, even in that person may feel very, you know, blocked or, you know, whatever rigid or whatever to you. It’s still, you are in charge of yourself. So you still feel good that you’re sovereign over yourself. Yeah. A hundred percent.
AdaPia : 48:57 And the other piece of, uh, that goes with this is if you need to walk away from someone, right. It, doesn’t only, you know, if you walk away, you have to honor yourself. It doesn’t influence you. And especially if they’re mistreating you like that is, that is just not okay. Under any circumstances whatsoever being disrespectful. So, you know, it’s like, okay, like, that’s your opinion. Don’t force it on me because I’m not forcing mine on you and you can walk away. And sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes that’s the only thing that you can do, which is the compassionate, like the kindest thing you can do is say no and walk away. Cause we that’s another thing we don’t really do a lot, especially as women that say no, oh yes, I’ll do this. I’ll do that. I’ll take this. I know I do it too. Love.
Kimberly: 49:42 I’d take it on. If I’m on it. It’s like, that’s a tough one. You know, I’ve gotten better by delegate more. And, um, but I noticed it in like different areas of my life. Like I take on everything with it, with the kids and with the home and like just more, you know, conversation, John and he’s, he’s like, he’s like, um, he he’s there. He’s like, you just need to like, tell me. And it’s funny because we’re in more, you know, I’ll say more intuitive, but like as women, I think we’re, you know, we, we lean towards the intuitive and I’m like, but it’s obvious. But you know, this needs to be done. Dinner needs to be made. The diaper needs to be changed. Like, you know, but it’s like, you know, again, back to communication instead of taking it as like you’re supportive, or you’re not listening, seeing some men have a different communication style where they are, at least I could John his style where it’s, it’s more effective for our communication, if I’m direct. So that’s been a big, yeah,
AdaPia : 50:42 Same, same, same. Just tell me what to do. And I think, okay,
Kimberly: 50:46 Well, like I don’t want to be your POS. Yeah, exactly. Like you need to start figuring out what’s needed, but then he’s just not there. So then it leads to, you know, stress. If so, yeah. It’s, I feel
AdaPia : 51:02 Like it’s always, it’s always comes down to the communication and when we have self-awareness, the communication does get easier because that, that idea of that only takes one person to make a relationship conscious is because if you have the self, when you have the self-awareness, you can have that, that, that prescient almost about, if I say this this way, if I react this way, I know this is going to happen because I have past precedent to go off of how about I try something different? How about I don’t react this way? How about I change? And the outcome will change. And if we can get the ego out of the way, that wants to say, well, they need to change. If you can get that piece out of the way and just say, I’m going to change. And then you start to, it’s like literally create a different reality and your brains like, oh, okay, well that worked, let’s do more of that because then you have a different emotional reaction. So it is, it’s really important to, to know that you can literally be the one that changes everything.
Kimberly: 52:06 That’s that powerful. We can be the change. Yeah. Well, and that, that turns the whole victim mindset on its head, which is, you know, everything around me is a certain way. It’s hard to get out of this. And I know that feeling and I’ve been broke. I’ve experienced that after coming back from backpacking. And I know what it’s like to climb out of, um, being broke. And so I know that feeling of it, that heaviness and that oppression, um, but we all have free will, you know, which is something Guruji talks about so much Yoganonda, um, is using our will and directing it and accepting that we are these creators and that we can create big change. And I think this ability to just have that space to create awareness and slow down, it’s so simple, but those have been such a big part of me staying in flow. It’s just like allowing slowing down. So I’m not just like in that driven state, it just kind of spirals and you feel more anxious and there’s more pushing and it just keeps going. But when I slow down is when I T you know, it allows me to be able to break those patterns. Yeah. And
AdaPia : 53:16 Still achieve, succeed, be abundant so much more. It’s actually, it’s actually so antithetical to way our primal brain thinks it. You actually have so much more when you do less, when you’re more being, when you’re in more beam, you just access a different level of abundance. Well,
Kimberly: 53:38 I have to say that, um, I used to, you know, I, I say this because if I, if I can shift that, I think anybody can shift, but I was such a doer is such a pusher for a long time. And then I really started opening up. And, you know, as I shared with you, this, this last, this book that’s coming out in January, just flows through, even in the midst of a newborn and a child and a four year old now five-year-old child. Um, and also just, you know, work and, and having them at home. But somehow it was less doing, but I was, you know, flowing and, you know, we’ve been able to create and grow. And we just bought this farm in Hawaii, which isn’t something that, you know, I thought it was, we’d been impossibility a little while ago, but even in the midst of this, it’s, it just shows intention slowing down, being in the flow. It’s amazing how much can open up.
AdaPia : 54:36 And I remember it’s a 2021, I remember on, on a hike, we went on together, one of our first hikes. So like 20 18, 20 17, it would have been 17. I seen you told me about a farm possibility that actually fell through
Kimberly: 54:53 Tension. I did, I did love it. Talked deep down. I have always loved tropical and I’ve always wanted to be in tropical. And then, you know, moving to California, I was like, this is great. And you know, um, now that we split some time with Bobby, I’m like, I don’t, you know, I don’t know if this is possible, like for me to go to tropical, but you know, we found a way and, and it’s like, there, there is you’re right. It’s amazing how, um, we hold that, that seed intention without pushing, you know, Nicaragua at the time it was this beautiful farm. I had found the land, I found a farmer and then it just went into political chaos at the time. And, you know, Managua was a mess. I couldn’t even fly in. And I was like, okay, like this isn’t going to happen. So I let it go. But then here we are in Hawaii is the most amazing,
Kimberly: 55:45 I mean, one day we’ll do Solluna retreats there, but it is just the land and it’s magical. So yeah, things keep unfolding in the most unexpected ways.
AdaPia : 55:57 It’s been just such a journey. So it’s a beautiful journey to, to like witness you as you were going through this and to like, and to grow together. And I‘m so excited for your book because I’ve witnessed you shift and change and transform a long journey and this book that’s coming out. Like, I feel like, cause I feel you, I feel what’s coming in for the community and for those listening, like, wow, it’s so beautiful.
Kimberly: 56:26 Thank you my love. And I’m just, I’m so grateful for you. We have such a deep friendship. And so it’s lovely to have you on the pod and to just share a normal conversation we would have. We do quite a bit of two person circles. You and I, and you know, I just love you and I could talk to you forever, but I’ll, I’ll let you
Kimberly: 56:49 Go now my love until next time. Um, but very excited about everything here. My loves, we will link in the show notes to add as book I call her at her, her real full name is [inaudible] she’s Italian, her name, her book is again called production, productive intuition, connecting to the subtle. And it has so much, you know, beautiful practices and information and she lays it out so beautifully. There’s there’s research and there’s personal stories. Um, I have it right here in my hands and, you know, go check it out for sure. And willing to in the show notes again. But Adam, I love thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you so much, such an honor. Love you so much.
Kimberly: 03:53 All right. My loves, well, I hope you enjoy today’s show as much as I enjoyed the interview myself, please head over to mysolluna.com to get the show notes, links to other podcasts. I think you would enjoy. We’ll include a link to Adam’s book and articles, lots of resources over there, and please be sure to check out our amazing digestive centric supplements and our high-performance non-toxic skincare, our courses, all our other offerings. Of course, our meditations Selena circle and our app. There’s lots over there for you sending you so much love. We will be back here Thursday for our next Q&A show until then take great care. And again, so much love.