This week’s topic is: Creating Healthy Boundaries to Protect Your Energy with John Pisani
I am so excited to have my very special guest, John Pisani, who is my business partner at Solluna and best friend for over 10 years. Listen in as John and I discuss the different relationships in our lives and how if we aren’t really intentional in creating healthy boundaries, we can actually become depleted, and it can affect our overall wellness and vitality. We have tips, tools, and strategies that have really worked in our lives and that we want to share with you.
- Relationships in our inner circles versus the macro or outside world…
- Healthy boundaries and how to create them…
- Parenting instinctually and how to set healthy boundaries…
- Inner circles and your personal energy…
- Tips on how to navigate your friendships…
About John Pisani
John Pisani is founding partner, co-owner and COO of Solluna, a lifestyle brand empowering you to live your best life with offerings in each of its 4 Cornerstones: Food, Body, Emotional Well-being, and Spiritual Growth. He also currently produces the top-rated podcast on iTunes entitled Feel Good Podcast with Kimberly Snyder.
He also produced the marketing and publicity release campaigns for the New York Times best-selling books The Beauty Detox Power (2015) The Beauty Detox Foods (2013) and The Beauty Detox Solution (2011) as well as the best sellers Radical Beauty (2016) and Recipes for Your Perfectly Imperfect Life (2019)
With personal access to celebrities and key influencers Pisani exposes brands and projects to Hollywood’s top celebrities, executives, and tastemakers. For years he has been one of Hollywood’s top film publicists and field producers, with over 55 film credits, including the physical production publicity, marketing and field producing on 18 Marvel Studios blockbuster films.
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Other Podcasts you may enjoy!:
- Setting Healthy Boundaries
- Tips for Healthy Communication to Reduce Stress
- How to Renew and Strengthen Relationships
- Ways to Center Yourself and Limit Stress
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Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Kimberly: Hey Beauties, and welcome back to our Monday interview podcast. I am super excited to have back on our show today, by popular demand, John Pisani, who is my business partner over at Solluna, and also happens to be my best friend. Today we’re going to be talking about Creating Healthy Boundaries to Protect Your Energy. I think this is a really important topic for all of us because we all have so many different relationships in our lives, from our colleagues, to our neighbors, our friends, our family members, our relatives, our in-laws, and if we aren’t really intentional in creating these healthy lines and these healthy boundaries, we can actually become depleted, and it can affect our health, it can affect our overall wellness, our overall vitality.
Kimberly: As we talk about here so much on the show, wellness and health and energy and beauty is not just about the food that you’re eating. We talked about the cornerstones, which are food, body, emotional wellbeing and spiritual growth. Everything very much does work together in a holistic way. Everything influences your body and your skin and your hormones and your digestion, and your just ability to feel peaceful and joyful, which is what we all want. This topic crosses into emotional wellbeing very much, and we know that mental health and stress affect everything. They affect inflammation, they affect how much you age, they affect our quality of life. This is a big topic, and it’s something that John and I have spoken about a lot over the years.
Kimberly: We have tips and tools and strategies that have really worked, I have found in my life. We want to share them. All of us have to create these healthy boundaries, or we have the opportunity to create these healthy boundaries because we have so many different relationships that play out in our lives. I think it’s important to be intentional and to know what your line is and to even create these healthy boundaries in the first place. Otherwise, our relationships can really bleed into our personal energy and can cross over, and that’s when we start to get depleted.
Fan of the Week
Kimberly: This is a really big topic, and I’m really excited to dive in. Before I do, I just want to give a quick shout out to our fan of the week. Her name is Carlyyolanda, and she writes, “Love, love, love. I absolutely love this podcast. I’ve always adored Kimberly and bought her books, and this is like the cherry on top of the wellness cake. My favorite episode so far is definitely the one with her husband. His podcast is a joy. Thank you.” Carly Yolanda, thank you so much for being part of our community. Sending you so much love, sister. It means the world to me. Thank you for writing your review, and hope we get to meet one day in person. But until then, sending you a huge virtual hug.
Leave a Review on iTunes
Kimberly: Beauties, for your chance to also be shouted out as our fan of the week, for me to read your beautiful words, please just take a moment or two out of your day, and please leave us a review on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to our podcast. It really just is a great way to support the show, and it’s free and it’s easy. It could be one sentence. But again, it just truly means the world. While you’re over there, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast, and that way you don’t miss out on any of these interview podcasts, which are always on Mondays or our community show which is Thursdays. All right. All that being said, let’s get into our show today.
Interview with John Pisani
Kimberly: Thank you so much, John, for making time in your very busy schedule running Solluna. You definitely manage a lot, and so thank you so much for coming back with us today.
John Pisani: Yes, it’s so nice to be back on the podcast. Excited about the topic. I think this is a great topic. I think really from so many people, that it’s a really universal topic I think that really affects a lot of people.
Relationships in our inner circles versus the macro or outside world
Kimberly: You and I talk about this a lot, and to me when I think about healthy boundaries, there’s the macro world, meaning our relationship with, for instance, social media, right? Or people that come in passing, the people in line at the post office or whatever. Then it becomes more like the inner circles come in down to our acquaintances, people we see casually, down to friends and close friends and family members. I feel like maybe we start with the outer circle. What do you think about that, John? Can you talk about inward, because inner ones could be the most tricky? But what has helped me I think is learning to create healthy boundaries with people I’m not as connected to or not just as closely … There aren’t as close emotional bonds and triggers and wounds, [inaudible] the family members. Maybe it just helped me create that in a larger sense, if that makes … Does that make sense?
John Pisani: Completely. I think it’s easy to work from the outer side, and the outer ones are a little sometimes less complicated. As we move inward, a little more complicated.
Kimberly: Yes, yes, exactly. For me, on social media and when we started the blog, years ago, over 10 years ago now. It was your free blog, and there was a lot of comments coming in. I share this experience. We’ve talked about this before, when I did a Good Morning America segment, and there was just some backlash about certain recommendations, ones I thought were quite innocuous, diet, soda, and so on and so forth. But people had their own experience, and they had their own journeys. It was the first time there was just a bunch of negative feedback on the blog about … that felt personal.
Kimberly: I turned to you and said, “This is really hurtful.” I broke down, and I even considered for a moment actually even canceling the blog. I was like, “I don’t know if I can handle this, and no. Then you said to me, “Are you going to let those people stop you and your mission from trying to help people and to help the world? Are you going to let that happen?” I remember I processed it and came back within a day or so, but I had to learn to create healthy boundaries with the public, and I think all of us to varying degrees know any way we’re on social media or any way we put ourselves out there, there’s going to be people that comment and people that like your stuff and people that don’t like your stuff. Those healthy boundaries in that space, first of all, I think, are really important. John, let’s talk about how do we … First of all, what is a healthy boundary, and how do we create that in that way?
Healthy boundaries and how to create them
John Pisani: Yeah. I mean, I think you hit on a good thing. I remember that distinctively. I think when you’re putting stuff out there, we started from, I think, a really young age of feeling approval, first off, from our family, and as we move into later in life, other people in our lives and the outer people. I think the first time when you’re feeling like a pushback or something that is not or saying something that is not in agreement of what you’re saying, it’s really hard because it’s the first time really you feel vulnerable, but not in a … It’s a different thing because it’s vulnerable to people you don’t really know.
John Pisani: It’s like remember when you’re going to school, when you’re going to in high school or back in school where you really … Even though you don’t know these people, you just want to be accepted and feel that acceptance. But then as you realize, I think as you start working through it, you realize, okay, the only acceptance I need is myself, and I said if I know I’m putting out something or doing anything in my life-
Kimberly: Yes, yes.
John Pisani: … that is for good, then that’s the only acceptance I need. Because not everybody’s always going to like what I say or do, or there’s always going to be people that have a difference of opinion.
Kimberly: Yes. Exactly. When I think about healthy boundaries, it’s really holding space for yourself with your personal energy and what feels good to you, and there’s a line you draw. What we talked about, for me and us in the public space, so to speak, it’s … I know we talked about this a lot. If we put out what feels aligned and feels good and it’s never hurtful and it comes from love, however it’s received, the healthy boundary I’ve created is … I put out, I focus what I put out, but there’s a boundary in … There’s a space where people’s feedback can come in and I will take it and I’ll process it, but I try not to.
Kimberly: Sometimes it does get through, but I try to keep this boundary where I don’t take it so personally. There’s a distance between me and it. I don’t identify with it as much because it’s moving through me, right? It’s just content or ideas, but it’s not me. The boundary for me is I don’t make it personal to me like I’m bad or I’m not liked. The boundary is, oh, they received this content in a certain way, that stings for a minute or that feels good that they liked it, but I don’t make it about myself.
John Pisani: Yeah, completely. I mean, think about it in everyday life for every person, whether you’re at your job, whether you’re at school, whatever you’re doing, parenting, there’s always going to be constant feedback, “Oh, good job, that was great. Oh, that’s really …” You’re always doing things, and then there’s some type of either validation or feedback on what you’re doing, especially. But it seems today in our modern age, it’s hyperspeed. You think what social everything, it’s kind of your hyper, it’s the instant kind of thing.
John Pisani: It takes a second. I mean, I know I sometimes struggle with it. I’m like, “Oh, gosh. Did I do a good job? Is that okay?” Then you want to feel like it’s okay because it feels good. I mean, it’s a natural thing to say, “Oh, gosh, I did a good job,” and that feels good. But when there is resistance, if you know in your heart you did what you … This goes back to intuition and goes back to really being anchored in yourself of feeling-
John Pisani: … okay, I did what I thought was best. Maybe it doesn’t turn out that way, but that’s all. You can’t beat yourself up for that.
Kimberly: Exactly. If we focus … I know when I was starting out, and I was, I felt like I wasn’t really protected energetically because I wasn’t hurting myself, right? It was like everything coming at me, when I started over 10 years ago now, felt really personal. John, you’re always my anchor, I would cry too or I would say, “Oh, my gosh, this person said something mean.” For me and I think for all of us who are on social media, or just if you say something at a party or whatever, if we focus on the interstate and connecting to the formless part of us, the spiritual part, the soul, the essence, the divine part of us, whatever word you want to use, but we focus on who we really are underneath the surface and we create, we put out what feels aligned to that, the boundary for me is however it’s received, again, it’s like this outer …
Kimberly: It’s like it doesn’t come into my inner aura. I try to keep it in this … I also imagine this bubble around myself, and it doesn’t come in the bubble, good or bad, right? Yoga is about equanimity. There’s this word in Hebrew, actually [foreign language], I think I’m saying it right, which is that we’re neither affected by praise nor scorn. That’s a boundary, is if we know we put out something that feels good to us, the feedback isn’t going to get through that boundary as much.
Kimberly: This comes with time, and I feel like meditation has really helped me just strengthen that inner connection, so that we know that we’re so much more than the surface. This whole inner world is really our identity, and everybody’s on their own journey. If we tune into our inner space and we align with that, that is really the best thing we can do, and it makes it less impactful what other people are saying or their opinion of it. I think it develops over time. It’s not always the easiest thing, of course, but it gets better. Over the years, John, you can see [inaudible] better in me.
John Pisani: No, absolutely. I mean, you were hypersensitive, I think when we started out, just simply. It’s like anything. When you haven’t been exposed to certain things, the first time you are, it feels so overwhelming. I know we talked about this last time [inaudible], especially in the creative space. When you’re creating some screening thing, it’s exasperated even more because you’ve personally created something, or you’re doing something that is original to you. It’s like, imagine being a painter and you paint a picture and you show it to someone for the first time.
John Pisani: That’s frightening, because you’re it’s so personal to you and you’ve created it, and now you’re showing it to the world or to people that are going to have an opinion, and that’s scary when you first do that. The first times you go through that, it’s just brutal because you just feel like, oh, just it’s so big. But then as you do it more, you realize I know what I’ve created, or anything I create in my life and doesn’t have to be art. It can be anything I create [inaudible] my day, my phone call, anything you do, it’s original to you and you’ve created it and you own and you feel good about, and that’s all that matters.
Parenting instinctually and how to set healthy boundaries
Kimberly: I think you’re right. I think you’re taking it universally. Another topic that this reminds me of is mothering. I remember with Bobby, being a first time mom, there’s so many different styles of parenting. I definitely felt sensitive to thinking, am I doing this right? I would come to the mom’s room for the first time and think, do I have all the right stuff in the diaper bag? Will other moms judge me if I don’t have this or that? I was so just … Again, thinking about the external versus focusing on the internal.
Kimberly: What I found personally, as a mom, was I just started to really anchor into my instincts, and really tune in to my bond with my child. I would say especially after the first year, it just … Really there was a big shift. I started to really care less and less and less what other people think. Now Bobby just turned five and Moses is 10 months, and I can say I haven’t always done things in “the traditional way,” but things that really felt good to me. Bobby breastfed for a long time. He nursed until he was about four years old, and it works for our family. He’s a very natural child, and we’re here in Topanga. We’re barefoot a lot. He has his costumes and his wild hair.
Kimberly: People are on their own journey, and somebody that cuts their kid’s hair every two weeks, or just thinks breastfeeding is weird after six months, or whatever may look. Sometime, John, my husband would be like, “Oh, look, people are looking at us in public, or whatever,” and covered up and being respectful. But still, I can honestly say from now to where I started, that healthy boundary for me is I’m connected to my child and everything else is in the outer bubble, right? Even opinions of in-laws or family members or whatever, I don’t give an F, and I say that with love.
Kimberly: But I think that when we tune into what feels right and true and good to us, the outside opinions just matter less and less and less. Another thing I’ll say is everybody is on their own journey, so everybody speaks to each other the way that they speak to themselves. This really started to resonate with me because I started to understand sometimes I can be impatient and short, and it’s because I’m so impatient with myself. I’ve worked on that a lot over the past few years as a recovering perfectionist. But the other day, we had a friend’s dad come over here. I’m sorry, a friend’s husband … One of Bubby’s friend’s dad’s.
Kimberly: He stayed on the outside. We’re being COVID safe, but he was looking in the windows, and he was like, “Oh, you should do this to your railing, replace the wood with the wire.” He was saying all this stuff about the house. I love our house, I think it looks beautiful. In the past, I would have taken that personally. I didn’t have that healthy boundary, so I would have gotten really annoyed and been like, “Who is he to tell me all this stuff?” But I could really look at him. Again, there’s this I know what I know, and I had this outer bubble, so to speak.
Kimberly: The healthy boundaries, I don’t let it come into my aura, and I just say, “Thanks, Jack. That’s great to know. Thank you for your opinion,” whatever. But I just connect with him on the parts that I could act. He’s a good dad. We live in the same area or whatever. But I also [inaudible] He’s always trying to fix [inaudible] never good enough for him and things are … It’s just like another mom thing. I just don’t take it personally, and I also don’t care as much. It’s that I’m dismissive or mean about it. I’ll take in the opinion, but if it doesn’t [inaudible], then I let it go.
John Pisani: Yeah. I mean, that’s amazing because I think before-
John Pisani: … you probably would have thought about that for days. You know what I mean? It would have stuck with you.
John Pisani: You would-
John Pisani: I mean, you would have processed and probably taken days to process and get past it. When you get … That’s great that you can … That’s one thing. I think sometimes we, in those situations where you feel like, oh, he’s judging my house, or are you judging my house? Did I do something wrong? That’s the natural … I mean, whatever we’re unpacking from our childhood and stuff for stuff we’ve gone through. That’s the natural kind of reaction. Then you realize, okay, wait, this is my house. I love it the way it is, and that’s all that matters.
John Pisani: That’s why everyone has different tastes and different what they like, and that’s why you want to be in a space that you like. I think with the parenting, I’m not a parent, but I’ve been around a lot of kids, but I think it’s great to do what you feel is right because at the end of the day, you’re the parent and you have to live with the decisions you make. If you’re doing what you feel naturally is good, and [inaudible], then that’s the healthiest for that situation, and I think the child. I think with Bubby, he’s so free, and I think one of the cool things with him is he’s just so free and himself and of not worrying about, oh, I’m wearing costume or I’m doing a hair. It just really affected him in a great way.
Kimberly: Yeah, I think that the thing that helped me create these healthy boundaries, which for me is about so much not letting people affect your energy, right? Go through life and we’re doing our best, and then we’re flowing along. But like you said, there were things that time would it affect me. I would have to think about it and talk about it for hours, sometimes, right? And stuff with clients and this person. Whatever they said, I would just take it so personally. What’s really helped me is really reminding myself that everybody has their own sense of reality, in a way, right?
Kimberly: We live in this collective where we see the trees together, the stores are there, whatever’s going on. But everybody is on their own journey, and everybody has their own perspective and their own background and their own triggers and their own things that have happened in their childhood or whatever. When we remember that like … Going back to the mom thing, for instance. Mom shaming was something that was talked about, I remember reading a lot about it, and it still happens, of course, but I just don’t tune into it as much because I’ve just become so anchored, I think, in my own instincts. But I remember just a lot of discussion around mom shame.
Kimberly: Like I was saying, the way that we treat other people comes a lot from the way that we treat ourselves and talk to ourselves, our self language. The shaming comes a lot from people that shame themselves and feel bad about themselves and are very self critical. When I really started to understand that, when people … If and when people make comments like Jack the other day, I know it comes from a place where they’re giving that treatment to themselves. So instead of being annoyed, or like that person sucks, I have been able to open my heart to finding compassion and being like, “Oh, wow, that person must be really hard on themselves,” and that has also helped me take it less personally.
John Pisani: Absolutely. I mean, think about it. Why would you ever be mean to someone or say something disparaging? There’s no reason to, unless there’s something that’s going inside yourself that is being triggered to make yourself feel a certain way about yourself. Because otherwise, we would see the beauty in everything. Even if we don’t like, “Oh, that’s not what I would do. But hey, that’s amazing.” We would never come out and say, “Oh, why is he doing? That’s weird. Why would …” We only just-
Kimberly: [crosstalk] Why are you putting so much energy into what someone else is doing, right?
John Pisani: Exactly. It’s just because we’re being triggered within ourself to saying, either, “Oh gosh, I don’t do it that good,” or, “Oh, wow, that’s better than I …” There’s something that’s being triggered to make us feel okay with ourselves by ripping down somebody else.
Kimberly: Well, that’s what happens with the so-called social media trolls that go around leaving me comments on YouTube and everywhere. It’s a projection of an inner pain. I used to think, who are these A-holes that are just doing that all day? You watch a video and you look down, you’re like, “Whoa!” Just people that are putting out loving great stuff like Deepak, or anybody. You realize that it is triggering something in somebody in their reality in their inner state, and really, really getting that, I think just helps us feel, oh, it’s really not about me.
John Pisani: Absolutely. [inaudible] listen, I’ve found myself doing it, judging people, or going, “Oh, my gosh.” It’s easy to judge people because it’s just a natural reaction. But then sometimes I have to say to myself, because I’ve caught myself doing it, and then I say, “Wait a minute, I have to … I can’t try not to judge because I’m not in their shoes. I’m not in their situation.” I know with myself growing up with my mom, there’s things that she did, decisions, things I never agreed with. I come from a family divorce. There’s deeper things that I was like, “How could you do that? I can’t connect.” For a long time, I struggle with it.
John Pisani: “How could you do that to my dad?” This, that, and the other. Then as I got older, I realized, wow, relationships are not easy and life is not easy sometimes, and sometimes you just make the decision that you think is best. Maybe it’s not the best decisions, but you’re going with all the stuff that, at that time, you could put into yourself to make a decision. Then I realized is, wow, I can’t blame her or put that on for her because that’s what she did what she thought was best.
Inner circles and your personal energy
Kimberly: You’re right. Exactly. Exactly. This also goes, as we sneak closer to the inner circles of speaking about parents and family members, we’ve gotten a bunch of questions about … I have to say it, we get a lot of questions about in-laws, and saying, “My mother-in-law doesn’t like me, or she tells me what to do, or if I feel like she doesn’t think I’m good enough for her son,” or very hurtful things because now we’ve crossed from, okay, the social media trolls or the acquaintances or my friend’s husband, ultimately outer circles, to getting pretty personal.
Kimberly: That can be really tough to hear. Still holding the space for my boundary is my own energy, my very personal energy, and I can take in feedback but I know my truth, and I create this bubble. I just imagine this bubble. They can’t get past the bubble. They’re not getting into the inner aura. Now, that’s easier said than done. What else would you say about that, John? What’s the in-laws or family members that just … They can be so triggering. Even our parents can be really triggering. Just people around us that we love, we want their validation, and sometimes they overstep.
John Pisani: Yeah. I think, I mean, this is when it gets really, really hard. Because now with family, there’s a natural kind of bond there that goes beyond just you’re going into work and seeing someone at work. If you quit that job, you never see that person again. But with family, they’re there for life. You’re always going to see your family or relatives or this or that, and depending on the situation, how much. But it’s never going away. You’re never quitting your family, most of the time. I think that there’s that inherent pressure of somehow if you’re not really thinking about it, that it can be much more triggering because there’s a deeper level of feeling of judged because they are your family.
John Pisani: We seek typically approval of a mother or a father, a family member, a brother or a sister, and it’s a deeper trigger. Much, much deeper. This is where you really have to have the boundaries, and I think sometimes even, I know, I’ve had to do is, wait a second, okay. We’re all family. I think as we get to be adults in our lives, we have to say, “Okay, we have to live our own lives too. We have our family, we love our family, but we have to live our lives for ourselves too, and not just for our brothers [inaudible] for their approval.” [inaudible] That’s-
John Pisani: … a boundary that’s you really have to create for yourself, which will make those relationships so much healthier.
Kimberly: Well, also, I think it’s drawing the line, being really clear with the day-to-day boundaries. In overall sense, we’re saying, “This is my anger. I [inaudible] about my choices and decisions.” But how do that play out in the real world? I’ll give you an example with my mother-in-law. She’s very loving, she’s a Jewish mom. At the beginning, she would just text and there is just a certain pace of texting that I can do, and I tried to batch [inaudible], and I wasn’t able to keep up with all the text.
Kimberly: When it crossed over into things with me verse into where’s John, what’s he doing, and why isn’t he call me back? When it started to be me as the go-between, that was a boundary I had to put up and I put it up with love, and I just said it but clarity and firmness. I said, “If you would like to find out where he is, please check in with him. You guys can do that, but I just can’t be in the middle, and there’s just so much going on with the kids.” Whatever. I worded it in a really loving way, and she understood. There wasn’t tension but I had to create that clarity, because otherwise … I know sometimes we can fall into this.
Kimberly: We don’t say anything because we feel “bad,” and maybe we avoid confrontation which I don’t like confrontation much either. But it would just be this resentful situation where, over time, it’s like we keep having the situation come up and we keep feeling resentful, and then it builds and it builds and it starts to deteriorate the relationship and it starts to deplete your energy. So every time you’re going there, her name comes up, you’re like, “Oh,” there’s this dread. That creates inflammation and acid in the body and very disregulating to our nervous system. It has a physical effect.
Kimberly: For me, it is also verbalizing healthy boundaries can be conversations and words you use, or maybe with a sibling, “Hey, I love you so much. I appreciate your opinions and your ideas. But I really have an idea of how I’d like to mother, so if I don’t ask you for your opinion about certain things, I just ask that maybe you keep that to yourself,” or whatever it is. Sometimes we have to verbalize the boundaries.
John Pisani: Absolutely. If you don’t verbalize it, then a person doesn’t know, and that’s the tricky is I think with in-laws, it’s so difficult. Because sometimes in our minds, we think, well, they should know that because that’s how I think, and you realize, wait a minute, not everybody thinks the same way. If we don’t verbalize boundaries, you can’t hold people accountable because you’ve never verbalized the boundary. Once you verbalized it, then they know, and then there’s definitely the crossing a boundary. But with in-laws it’s hard because, as an in-law, people come into it such different ways. Some people come and say, “Okay, I’m just going to be chill and whatever.”
John Pisani: Then other people, in-laws, they view it is I’m family, and we were like brother and sister growing up for 30 years, or whatever. People come in, and that’s where those boundaries have to be said, “Okay. Listen, I love you. We’re now extended family.” But if you don’t set those boundaries like, “I’m not going to be texting you every day,” or now suddenly we’re like brothers, like father, daughter, or brother, sister. I mean, you’ve got to set what those boundaries that are healthy for you are. I think you raise a great point. You got to set those boundaries. When you’re setting boundaries and verbalizing, things go smoother. But the hard part is, naturally, I don’t want to hurt their feelings, I don’t want it … It’s harder with family because you care. I don’t want to hurt feelings, I don’t want to make feel bad or feel this because their family. It’s tougher.
Tips on how to navigate your friendships
Kimberly: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s true. There are times I had to say to her, “These kinds of texts, go to John.” Now, but let’s talk about sometimes you don’t say it, but you hold it in yourself. For example, let’s say there’s a friend, and we also gotten a bunch of questions about this. Over time, we grow and evolve and change and our journey shift and our paths go in different directions. Let’s say there’s a friend that you start to realize, oh, my gosh, this friend is a little bit draining to be around, and maybe a bit of a narcissist, maybe they talk about themselves all the time, there’s a boundary you can create about how much you choose to spend time with that person.
Kimberly: Maybe you don’t need to say it out loud, like, “Hey, I feel drained by you, so I’m only going to see you once every two weeks instead of every day or every week.” But maybe you just start to create that. What do you think about that? Because I think that can be possible too in friendships. Or do you think that it should always be addressed verbally?
John Pisani: No, it’s very … Listen, friendships too. I’ve had that where I’ve had long … friends to say I grew up with, but you’ve outgrown the friendship, but they’re still wanting to call and talk all the time, and it’s hard because you just feel like wow, this … Or maybe they’re just … Sometimes you get to a point in your life where you want people in your life that are just bringing joy and positivity, and that aren’t draining you. I’ve had to have that tough … I had a friend who I was in his wedding, and then years later, he just got …
John Pisani: I tried for so much to help in their [inaudible] to get the point, it’s like I have to set a boundary because this is something that is within you and you have to work out. I can’t make you. That’s a tough conversation to have with a friend, a loved one, because you’re setting them off on their journey to say, “Hey, I can’t always be the crutch of support that makes you feel better about yourself. You’re going to have to make yourself feel okay about yourself.”
Kimberly: Was that a conversation you had with him?
John Pisani: I did. I had literally to say to him, “I love you to death, and I love you and I will always love you and be … But you’re at a point where you need to work on yourself. These conversations, we’re going to have the same conversation a week from now, a month from now, and we’re just in this loop, and it’s completely-“
Kimberly: [inaudible] breaking.
John Pisani: Yeah. I felt like I would … I would hang up the phone and I would be like … You want to be there for your friends and we’re always there. But there is a point to where you have to say, “Okay, I’ve done my diligence as a friend or as a loved one, and now it’s up to them to take what I’ve given and the energy and the stuff that I given to them, and for them to use it and to be there for themselves.”
Kimberly: Yes. I agree. Those are hard conversations to have with friends. [inaudible] as you need that conversation, maybe more like fringe friends. I’ve had just [inaudible] girls, just hanging out with, going out with like that, best friends. But I’m like, “Oh, that doesn’t really feel good to me.” If they start trying to make more and more plans, I’ll just be like, “I’m busy this night, this night.” It’s not like I cut them off, but it’s just less hanging out. That can happen too. That’s like you set a boundary in yourself, like this person is draining so I’m only going to see them periodically if it’s in a group setting, and I really want to see them.
John Pisani: Yeah. In that boundary, you’re setting almost an actionary boundary by not engaging. If they’re more conscious and realize, oh, there’s … You’re hoping that that thing kind of sets the natural thing. Then sometimes what happens is that if they’re not getting it, then you have to get to that point to saying, “Here’s the situation.” Because I think the other thing sometimes is sometimes it feels like you’re being in those situations, I feel like I’m being mean or I’m going to hurt their feelings.
John Pisani: But you’re actually doing them such a favor because it gives them an opportunity to look within and go, “Oh, wow. I didn’t realize I was this way,” or, “I didn’t realize I was making you feel this way,” and it gives them time for self reflection upon their own selves, which is an opportunity for their own growth.
Kimberly: Yeah, totally. Yeah, I’ve done that. I think that a big part about healthy boundaries, in general, is shedding guilt because … Especially as women, but all people, and you too, John [inaudible] But there’s this feeling of we have to take care of everybody or be nice to everybody, and so there’s this guilt a little bit when you distance yourself. The way I’ve gotten past the guilt is that, again, connecting with the inner truth, and saying to myself, “I really am … I’m going to handle this with love and compassion. I’m going to do it in a loving, careful way. But at the same time, I know that by protecting my energy, I’m able to give more to everybody, to the world, to my children, to our community.”
Kimberly: So not to feel guilty if something isn’t really serving me, because when we’re depleted and we’re rundown, we don’t have the brightest energy, we don’t have the biggest vitality. So realizing there is a way to hold healthy boundaries to protect our energy, but to also stay loving, and that realization was big for me because guilt can keep us from those healthy boundaries. It’s probably the biggest thing that keeps us from healthy boundaries, actually.
John Pisani: Absolutely. I mean, you hit it on the head. I mean, guilt. It’s like you feel guilty. I struggle with that immensely because I’ve always been a people pleaser. I like to please people, make them happy, whatever. Then I feel like if I’m ignoring somebody or I’m not doing what they want, I feel guilty. I wasn’t there for them, or I didn’t do what they want it or this, that or the other, and guilty, it just racks you and it … But then that comes around within yourself. Even though you’re doing something for them, you’re not feeling great about it.
John Pisani: Then that tends to manifest out in other passive aggressiveness, sometimes that isn’t great either. Because you’re not honoring yourself. You’re doing something maybe that you don’t really want to do. When you do these things, even though we think it’s good, that we’re creating within ourselves, this anger within ourselves that manifests in a lot of different ways and not the best ways.
Kimberly: I think you said a really good term which is honoring yourself, and the essence of healthy boundaries is knowing that as humans and as individuals that are part of a collective, we contribute to the collective, but we also have our personal space, and so we need to honor that and nurture it. Your cornerstones, we eat to nourish our bodies and we take care of our bodies, we take the right supplements, we sleep and move our bodies. Emotionally we create, again, this interplay between us and others, we process our emotions, we journal, we have community.
Kimberly: Then spiritually, spiritual growth, our Four Cornerstone, we find time to really connect just in, in, in. So meditation and stillness. By nurturing and honoring our energy, we feel our best, we feel good, just like our podcast name, and we are able to contribute to the collective, instead of being depleted by one friend or one person that may be imbalanced in themselves. Seeing it as part of our mission and really honoring that we are unique essence, and each and every single one of us is a unique gift for the world and to bring to the world, I think is so important, and really holding that in our heart space.
Kimberly: If we feel the need to create a healthy boundary, whether it’s verbal or internal action step, like spending less time with someone, or energetically, just not taking in so much of a comment or a fleeting thing that someone says, just to know that it’s part of this whole intention that we have to really nourish ourselves to the highest degree to serve. That, to me, is really the essence of the healthy, healthy boundary conversation.
John Pisani: Absolutely. You hit it on the head again. I think one thing just popped in my head too with family is everyone has what feels good to them and what feels good to you. Especially, I think one of the biggest things that always comes up is how much you see family, right? Some people feels good for them to see them three times a week, almost every day, and then other people say, “Oh, I only need to see them once a month.” Everyone has difference of what feels good to them, and I think it’s important, in those boundary relationship is that to understand what your boundary is, and then also to understand what feels good to the other person.
John Pisani: Then when you have those … If I’m a person, it’s like, “You know what? I can see them twice a year and I feel okay.” Now, the other person, they’re like, “I want to see them every …” You realize that if yours is once a year, twice a year, and the other person’s is they want to have it twice a week, there’s going to be a disconnect there. You have to realize that and try to work in a way that makes you feel good about the boundary and then below as well as okay.
Kimberly: Totally. Totally. The core of these healthy boundaries and healthy communication, I think the key is always feeling good, is staying connected to yourself and active listening, and really sitting back and taking in, listen and listen, and then connect to your truth. It just develops more and more over time. It is such an important thing [inaudible] I know when I started putting up these healthy boundaries, I just didn’t feel my energy being affected as much. It wasn’t this roller coaster of oh, this person said something mean, or something I took as mean, or I took personally and it’s going to take me a long time to come down for this.
Kimberly: It just feels like this … My energy is a lot more steady, and health wise, again, that just affects your hormones and your health so much. I think that this is a really important topic, and something that we’ll talk about more and more keeps unfolding, and we’re all on our journeys. Again, it can feel a little bit like confrontation is difficult, but we just breathe into it, and we start to shift the way that we see it as not necessarily confrontation, but just holding that healthy space. Thank you so much, John, for being with us as always. We love to call you back in, it’s so funny, because … Do you remember when, some years ago I had a girl weekend where some friends flew into LA and you popped in and everybody wanted to ask your advice about all of their relationships? Remember that?
John Pisani: Yeah, I was like doctor-
John Pisani: I was Dr. Phil.
Kimberly: [crosstalk] Everybody was asking you.
John Pisani: Yeah. It was like a Dr. Phil weekend.
Kimberly: It was [inaudible] totally. I just appreciate you so much always being here for me and also the community, and just being able to hear your voice. Thank you so much.
John Pisani: Yeah, thank you so much. It’s great. I always love doing and always love to be there and have a voice in helping people too. So thank you so much.
Kimberly: Amazing. Thank you so much, my Beauties, my loves, for tuning in to our show today. Please head over to mysolluna.com for our show notes, where we link to other resources, other podcasts we think you will love. Of course, we have our new Solluna app, which is in the App Store, and there’s a portal there to our membership, our Solluna Circle which is amazing. I’m in there every day. There’s just a really beautiful community. We have a Zoom every month, we have weekly audio. There’s a focus every month, meditation every month, which I think is so healing.
Kimberly: This month, now that we’re in April, is developing your energy and your vitality. So it’s really just putting that focus, that beautiful focus, through all the four cornerstones on a monthly theme. I invite you personally to join us. Check it out, and sending you so much love. We will be back here on Thursday for our next Q&A podcast. Until then, take care. Again, so much love right from my heart.