Ancient Korean Wisdom for Modern Wellness with Michelle Jungmin Bang [Episode #971]

This Week’s Episode:

In this engaging conversation, Kimberly Snyder interviews Michelle Jungmin Bang, an eco entrepreneur and author of ‘Sun and Ssukgat: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity. They explore the rich traditions of Korean wellness, the importance of self-care, and the balance between modern beauty standards and traditional practices. Michelle shares her insights on mindful eating, the significance of gratitude, and how she teaches her children about their cultural heritage. The discussion emphasizes the value of resilience through tradition in a fast-paced modern world. In this conversation, Michelle shares her insights on Korean wellness practices, emphasizing the importance of using whole plants for nutrition and the cultural significance of self-care. She discusses the concept of ‘Ssukgat’ and its health benefits, the role of nutrition in building resilience, and how to incorporate Korean wisdom into everyday life. Michelle also highlights the importance of postpartum recovery in Korean culture and the need to preserve traditional knowledge in modern times. The conversation concludes with a focus on the healing properties of traditional ingredients like ginseng and the use of natural products in skincare.

About Michelle Jungmin Bang

Michelle Jungmin Bang is an award-winning eco-entrepreneur and Harvard Business School graduate who spent 16 years living in Asia as a Korean-American from New York City. She is the author of Sun and Ssukgat: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity., a wellness guide covering her research, interviews, and personal eco-conscious journey in uncovering centuries-old well-being traditions from her time in Asia and Korea, where scientists project its people will top longevity charts in 2030. She is passionate about driving social impact and serves as a board director and founding member of various mission-driven organizations including GrowNYC which is an environmental nonprofit with a mission to empower all New Yorkers with equitable access to fresh, locally grown food, neighborhood green spaces, opportunities to reduce waste, and care for the environment. Michelle is also the co-founder and founding CEO of The R Collective (formerly BYT), a sustainable fashion brand that creates affordable luxury pieces out of high-end materials that would otherwise have been disposed of in a landfill.

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Guest Resources

Book: SUN & SSUKGAT: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Michelle Junbing Bang and Her Work
03:01 Cultural Insights: The Korean Art of Self-Care
05:58 The Dichotomy of Traditional and Modern Beauty Standards
09:04 The Importance of Mindful Eating and Temple Food
12:04 Gratitude and Its Role in Self-Care Practices
15:03 Teaching Children About Wellness and Heritage
18:01 Resilience Through Tradition in Modern Times
24:12 The Significance of Sucut in Wellness
27:03 Building Resilience Through Nutrition and Terrain
29:31 Incorporating Korean Wisdom in Everyday Life
34:36 Korean Wisdom for Mothers and Postpartum Recovery
39:09 Preserving Cultural Wisdom in Modern Times
41:07 The Healing Power of Traditional Ingredients
43:55 Natural Ingredients for Skincare and Wellness

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Transcript:

Kimberly Snyder (00:00.984)
Hi everyone and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited for our very special guest. Here with us today, her name is Michelle Junbing Bang and she is an award winning eco entrepreneur, a Harvard Business School graduate. She has been living in Asia part of the time for over 16 years where she continues to, to this day, she splits time between Manhattan and Asia, one of my favorite places in the world.

And she has a new book out called Sun and Sukat, the Korean art of self-care, wellness and longevity. She is also a fellow mama of two. Michelle, welcome to our Feel Good Show. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

Michelle (00:46.441)
Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored to be here. I love your work.

Kimberly Snyder (00:51.118)
Thank you so much. And I have to say that when your book came across my desk, I was really excited because I actually was able to spend time in Korea some years ago. I was there for about three and a half weeks and it was really impactful for me. I loved the depth of the culture. I loved visiting and learning about the history.

Michelle (01:02.014)
Amazing.

Michelle (01:07.122)
Okay.

Kimberly Snyder (01:17.376)
I loved, you there was so much around beauty. There was so much around wellness. I mean, it really is. There’s so much depth that we can all learn from, I feel like, in Korean wellness. So thank you for writing this book and bringing it to the forefront.

Michelle (01:33.823)
Yeah, it’s such a pleasure to be here. mean, so just to add, I have also been trained in functional foods. So that was sort of part of my journey as well, just kind of the firsthand research, but also really formalizing that training and kind of extending that to healthy aging and mother-baby care, which is very important to me as a mother.

Kimberly Snyder (01:43.022)
Mm.

Michelle (01:55.967)
But the other thing too is that my father’s a doctor who is trained in Korea. So I very much grew up in a world of East-West medicine. So it’s a very different approach than Western medicine because it integrates holistic practices. growing up as a child, kind of seeing him, using things that were deeply embedded in our Korean culture like

Kimberly Snyder (02:16.726)
Yes.

Michelle (02:23.41)
holistic measures, using recovery foods for injuries, for surgeries, for pregnancies, and this is very much a normal part of the way we grow up. I just didn’t sort of connect the dots until later when I started researching and learning more about it. The other thing too is that later I married into a traditional Chinese family, which they…

completely embodied this whole, you the traditional wisdom that was passed down generationally. So it just, the book encapsulates all of that, including, you know, my travels across Asia. So it was just really interesting. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, so I’m very much a, you know, sort of a East West person.

Kimberly Snyder (03:01.772)
Okay. Yeah. So you span both worlds. And you know, it’s interesting, Michelle, I’ll share that my mother’s from the Philippines and she came over in her early twenties with a educational scholarship. And so how I grew up as well, she wasn’t a physician and neither was my grandmother, but there was a lot of very holistic teas and soups and stews and practices. And when we weren’t feeling well, my grandma would…

whether always saying, know, put warm water on your head and, you know, warm your hair and, you know, do this and do that. So I also grew up with this, different approach to wellness, which wasn’t just, you know, run and take the Tylenol or the medicine, but really using a lot of these just different modalities, which have been passed down for centuries. And there’s so much wisdom. And also later in life studying Ayurvedic medicine, which as you know, comes from, you know, ancient India.

and see, wow, there is now so much that’s being studied formally in Western medicine, but came from our ancestors wisdom and is so needed in the modern world. And I remember going to Korea and going to a lot of the, you know, the spas and doing some of the infrared saunas and just the level of self care and how this was really a part of.

society. wasn’t just a once in a while. And sometimes in the spas there was families and it was multi-generational and people would be in there for long periods of time and they would roll out the mats. And so I love how embedded these ideas are instead of being fringe or again sort of auxiliary to the culture.

Michelle (04:44.959)
Absolutely, you what you’re talking about is the traditional bathhouse culture. It’s called the gym. And you know having spent so much time in Asia I’ve been to sort of the best luxury spas, know, just things that are so exotic, you know with peacocks running around but you know what really fascinated me was that

Kimberly Snyder (04:50.285)
Yes.

Michelle (05:04.028)
This is like what you said, it’s so embedded in the culture, it’s normalized, and it’s actually very family oriented. So you are going in as a child with your grandmother, you’re going there and you’re starting to start seeing how to self care. I mean, you’re building the toolbox to figure out how to take care of yourself. For me, of looking back at that, because I had these experiences as a child and I kind of…

really dismissed it because I was living in the US and just wanted to become Americanized, be part of the culture here. And then just sort of thinking back and realizing how this is part of why they were living so long. And what’s interesting about the traditional bath houses is that just for a few dollars, and people, it’s so budget friendly that people do this every day.

Kimberly Snyder (05:39.264)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (05:58.541)
Yeah.

Michelle (05:58.751)
they can stay there for 24 hours. know, people go on dates to go there. You know, it is so normalized. And you know, they have these like, yeah, it’s great. Yeah, so they have these heated floors and they’re just all sort of like lying down on the heated floors, you know, after going to the cold waters and you know, trying different things and it just becomes kind of like a really fun experimentation. It’s all really great for your body too. So.

Kimberly Snyder (06:08.724)
hang out. Yeah, it’s comfortable.

Kimberly Snyder (06:28.8)
Yes. So Michelle, have to, you when I was there, was this really interesting dichotomy where I go to the bath houses and there’d be this, you know, and there’s the women’s section and the men’s section and the women would be very, I was like, like confident, like you kind of go in, you’re naked. There was just this sort of like self-acceptance and this confidence I felt. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then on the other hand, when I was traveling in Korea,

Michelle (06:28.862)
Yeah, that was fun.

Kimberly Snyder (06:58.19)
I started hearing about how there’s a lot of young women are getting the eyelid surgery and wanting to reshape their faces and lighten their skin. And it’s so interesting because on one hand, I was seeing this very traditional, I am myself power. And then there’s almost this other part of it. And of course you see this complexity in the US and many countries, but this other side of almost like homogenization. Can you speak to that a little bit when it starts to come?

Michelle (07:19.646)
Yeah, and I think you are hitting the nail on the head. The reason why I wanted to write this book was because I was starting to see these nourishing traditions fade away in our modern world. What self-care means and what it meant for centuries, what you grew up with, what I grew up with, was sort of fading away. And I started seeing that actually

Kimberly Snyder (07:34.978)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Michelle (07:46.429)
when I was, so the beginnings of it was just sort of casually interviewing. I really didn’t have an intention to write a book. I was just realizing, here I am living in Asia, a continent that breed food is medicine philosophy. And it’s not just about food, it’s about a whole way of living. So I started casually interviewing. And then I started realizing, so many of the younger folks are actually moving into the city, adopting these modern communities, adopting a new way of

Kimberly Snyder (08:02.509)
Yes.

Michelle (08:15.068)
you know, just being disconnected with the earth, with, you the seasons and, know, and part of it too is just, you know, we’re stuck inside having to, you know, be on our computers all the time, you know, be on the phones. And I think, you know, a lot of things like what you were saying with beauty and self care just started becoming redefined, you know, in the way, you know, with plastic surgery, but that’s not the way we actually grew up.

Kimberly Snyder (08:19.01)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (08:35.456)
Yeah

Michelle (08:40.671)
It was really about this sort of like internal health. I always think of skin health when I look back to the way I was learning with these traditional populations, it was the result of good living. It wasn’t really the focus. was, yeah, they were just eating really well, living really well, and then skin health kind of came as a result.

Kimberly Snyder (08:41.558)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (09:04.558)
Exactly, instead of this painting on or just about the makeup or the creams or the surgery to look like everyone else. So anyways, but that’s that. Yeah, there’s this push pull that you see as we come. And that’s why bringing this information, having these conversations, you know, writing this book is really important because there’s so much power when we are in our true self and we’re not trying to look like everyone else.

Michelle (09:07.752)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (09:33.494)
I think there’s this natural vitality that comes. There’s creativity. There’s so much that comes when we really are just embodying who we are. And I know easier said than done when so many of us are on social media and you see images and you’re looking at celebrities and the mind starts to compare. But I think really rooting into the self-care practices, for me, which shifted me over from always weighing myself or always trying to get to these goals,

has been the experiential, right? I started to feel better when I wasn’t just counting calories and I started to eat more holistically and I did start to have sauerkraut and I started to heal my gut health. I started to just, it’s this embodiment of experience. And I think that’s where we need to move people towards instead of just metrics or visuals or here, you need to feel how good it is to apply some of these practices you talk about in the book. And it’s, know,

We’ll get into that in just a moment. It’s not just going to a traditional bathhouse. A lot of what you speak about with temple food and other practices we can do at home.

Michelle (10:40.499)
Yeah, mean, what I, well, just one more thing about the traditional bath houses was that I loved how, you know, you just sort of stripped, you’re stripped away from the demarcations of what, you know, might, you might be identifying with in modern life. your clothes, the brands that you’re wearing, the makeup, you know, it’s, you’re just human to human. So it’s a very, you know, for me, it was just a really wonderful experience. I met so many fascinating people, you know, I sort of,

Kimberly Snyder (10:58.083)
Yeah.

Michelle (11:09.374)
I’m very sort of detail-oriented. made a spreadsheet. You I was thinking about all of the places that I wanted to go to. And one of the places was going to see the Buddhist nuns in the mountains of Korea and learning about temple food. So what I learned was that a long time ago, the way Koreans eat today with all the little dishes and what they call banchan, the side dishes, actually came from

Kimberly Snyder (11:34.401)
Yes.

Michelle (11:37.181)
the royal family, the dynasty eating, because it was so interesting to me, because I was going into the dossiers about this. They actually used to employ royal physicians that worked in tandem with the cooks. And it was sort of like a very forward thinking, just, OK, so here’s what might have been a very traditional version of what we know of now as a food journal.

Kimberly Snyder (11:53.356)
Michelle (12:04.302)
So they would take what the royal family would eat and then if they would have a negative reaction to it, then they would eliminate that for a period of time and then go back and sort of think about how they could use the foods to make them feel better. So the physicians would have this dossier, then share their knowledge with the cooks. And I bring that up because the foods there were very, for them it was medicine.

And things like the fermented condiments were, it was an extremely important job in the kingdom. So only the important people actually got to, it was under lock and key and it was very documented in terms of how much time everything was kept and preserved. And the reason why I bring this up is because the Buddhist, many of the Buddhist nuns actually retired from those kitchens. So it just was this wave of coming, trickling down into community and what we see today in Korean cuisine.

food is really about eating in season, eating with nature, you know, being very mindful about what you’re eating. I actually, loved when I was sitting with the Buddhist nuns and you know after we prepared food together, together they actually made us, well first of all before the egg,

Kimberly Snyder (13:22.318)
Oh, sorry, Michelle. Sorry to interrupt you, but there’s like a constant hitting sound. So I don’t know you’re hitting your mic, John, if we could edit this part out just so we don’t do it the rest of the interview. There’s like a popping, I don’t if it’s with your hand or, yeah, just try not to pop because it’s blowing out the sound. So we’ll edit this whole part out. It’s okay. Sorry, go back in. You were talking about, yeah, spending time with the Korean monks or nuns.

Michelle (13:35.964)
It might be my hands. Sure. Okay.

Okay.

Michelle (13:48.517)
Yeah, so I think what I loved most about, you know, my time with the Buddhist nuns is that they just remind you of this sort of philosophical approach in life. It’s a very, it’s a living life with intention with mindfulness. mean, even thinking about, you know, what you’re eating in front of you, you know, how long it took to grow, eating the entire plant, you know, from flower to root, and you even the peel, which is actually

the more nutritious part that we often throw away. It was just, yeah, I just loved my time with them. you know, they take time to, you know, before the meal, but also after the meal to make sure that you’re sort of thinking about what you’re putting into your body. It’s this energy that you’re putting into the body that came from the ground.

Kimberly Snyder (14:37.442)
beautiful. Well, I remember being in Korea and I pretty much ate exclusively at the temple food restaurants because I am plant based and there were so many beautiful options with a kabocha squash. And to your point, just the way they were roasted with beautiful sauces and just had the peel on them was when I make kabocha squash, I also eat it. And it was I also took a kimchi making class.

And it was really easy. I just made it without the fish sauce, which can sometimes be in or sometimes not, but the way it was wrapped and then sort of buried in was really just so much care was put into, you know, as you’re saying, the ways in which the food was treated and handled, which is the opposite of sort of this fast paced, you know, not really chewing well, just getting the food in the body. And so there’s this, like the centering.

Right? So you go to the bath house and we’re not rushing from one thing to the next. We’re making the food. There’s this, like, it’s like slowing down the hurry mindset, which I think is a really big part of true wellness as we continue to look around. It’s one of the through lines is not just rushing from one thing to the next, but breathing, being present, allowing for this to unfold instead of this frenetic modern pace.

Michelle (16:00.031)
Absolutely. mean, it was interesting to see, you know, how they were actually self caring daily. You know, particularly with the hidden ingredients that, you know, I kept seeing that they were referring back to. And there was this little lazy Susan that was on the countertop that they kept going back to. And there were these, you know, interesting ferments. And it just kind of made me think about what were the hidden ingredients that I was eating at the time.

You know, they’re using all of these ingredients that are super healthy, know, good for the gut, good for digestion. And, you know, there were vessels for persimmon, vinegar, which I later implemented, sesame oil, sea salt that actually was sitting for quite some time, and traditionally fermented Korean jang.

Kimberly Snyder (16:28.716)
Mmm.

Michelle (16:51.645)
which is like traditionally brewed soy sauce, gochujang, is, you know, it’s becoming more popular in Western culture, but it’s a red paper paste. And something that I love is tangjong, which is a soybean paste. So for me, this was really, you know, sort of a lesson in understanding and being more mindful of, you know, when I go into a restaurant.

Kimberly Snyder (17:04.579)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (17:09.838)
Mmm.

Michelle (17:16.408)
or if I go to a grocery store, I will think about what is actually going into the making of that dish or I’ll read the ingredients. If something’s not healthy there, if I don’t understand it, I tend to choose something else, like an unnecessary preservative or a food coloring. And I think they just really taught me so much about mindful self-care. And we meditated together, which was amazing.

Kimberly Snyder (17:42.454)
What are the things you also talk about in the book is gratitude, right? Being really present to gratitude, whether it’s with the food or just moment to moment in life. Can you talk a little bit about how that can weave through someone’s day and self-care practices and also personal benefits you’ve experienced?

Michelle (18:01.586)
I think I was so much a part of this culture of moving fast. In Korean culture, it’s called Pali Pali. yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (18:13.582)
It’s a term for, yeah. You really see it in the cities. I mean, of course, also in New York City, but it’s just this, I’m on the train and I’m getting there.

Michelle (18:24.306)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we forget to slow down, to think about what is actually great in our lives. This practice of gratitude and I’ve implemented it. It really is embedded in the whole slowing down, noticing what is actually great in your life and embodying that. think as opposed to putting in the negative, it’s just really focusing

Kimberly Snyder (18:53.134)
Right.

Michelle (18:53.99)
your energy on what you can be grateful for.

Kimberly Snyder (18:58.42)
One of the things I do with my kids, Michelle, is at the dinner table, we say grace, and then we go around and we say what we’re grateful for in general, and then also in that day. And even we started implementing a challenge that we’re grateful for because we learned from challenges. How old are your kids and how do you teach them about gratitude and also some of these traditional practices?

Michelle (19:23.678)
my kids were on this journey with me. They went to a few of the trips with me, you know, learning to cook and actually being, you know, and, know, the, the other thing too, is that, you know, we, their time in Asia, they actually were exposed to a lot of the healthy living, you know, through, more of the elderly. they are teenagers right now. And, you know, one of the things that I feel like is so important is that,

Kimberly Snyder (19:30.22)
Beautiful.

Kimberly Snyder (19:43.501)
I love that.

Michelle (19:52.829)
My son is, he’s an athlete. He does varsity wrestling and varsity volleyball. And I think for him, it was very much a huge lesson that, you know, this actually could help him to.

I don’t know, go through a better process in his life, whether it’s training and getting stronger. These were implemented as he was growing up. So I think as a family, we focus on the process, like you said, going through the challenges and what the lessons are through them versus the results. And through that, there’s so many lessons that you can take from that.

Kimberly Snyder (20:20.419)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (20:32.45)
Yeah.

Michelle (20:36.934)
I think every time I went to a trip that I would impart all of the lessons to them, especially different ingredients, and they were really interested to learn with me.

Kimberly Snyder (20:47.672)
Do you have a teenage daughter as well?

Michelle (20:49.533)
Yes, I do. she started, so they’re actually, so they’re Chinese and Korean and they just started learning more about their heritage through what I was doing. So that was a really wonderful surprise. think my daughter,

Kimberly Snyder (20:51.886)
How do you navigate?

Michelle (21:07.802)
she just doubled down with learning about the language at a more advanced level. So that was really a nice surprise. And this is all self-motivated. It was just sort of osmosis. And I think it goes back to the parents, I think, are very much the first teachers for their children. And they will see what you’re doing and kind of be very exposed and influenced by that.

Kimberly Snyder (21:33.912)
You know, have two sons, Michelle, and sometimes I think about if I did have a daughter, what it would be like in today’s modern world, how to teach her about her own beauty, right, and to be confident in herself, because I remember being a teenage girl and having such, you know, low self-esteem and wanting to look a certain way and wanting to be thin. So, you know, it’s really beautiful that you’re actually immersing them.

Michelle (21:48.51)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (22:01.998)
in these experiences and that they’re even open to it in the first place. And of course our children are on their own journeys and they’ll, you know, they’ll find their own way. But, but yeah, it’s just interesting hearing because, you know, you’re so enmeshed in this and then, you know, at the same time you’re raising kids that are in Western modern culture and how to navigate that.

Michelle (22:23.518)
Yeah, think for my daughter, she’s just gone along the ride with me. mean, she went to the traditional bath houses with me. I think she’s very comfortable in her skin, much more so than I was when I was crying out. Just because she was seeing everything, like I mentioned before, everyone sort of without their armor.

Kimberly Snyder (22:40.376)
Yeah.

Michelle (22:52.115)
their societal armor and it was just sort of like a very human experience and we’re very much like that with each other. So it is not really about the makeup and it’s not about brand clothing. It’s about like, what really matters, what you can be really grateful for and being intentional.

Kimberly Snyder (22:53.088)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (23:14.028)
Ooh, I just got goosebumps. You know, your message is resonating with me so much in the traditional and this is the closeness we create in the family within ourselves.

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Handling Anxiety & Conflict in Kids (and Humans!) with Connection with NYT Bestselling Author Alyssa Blask Campbell [Episode 1013]

Week’s Episode Special Guest: Alyssa Trask Campbell Summary: In this episode, Kimberly and Alyssa Black Campbell discuss her journey as a parenting expert and author, focusing on the emotional landscape of parenting. She emphasizes the importance of understanding emotions, connection, and the needs behind children’s behaviors. The discussion covers various topics including self-regulation, co-regulation, the significance of creating safe spaces for communication, and navigating challenges like lying and bullying. Alyssa shares insights from her personal experiences and highlights the role of neuroscience in understanding children’s emotional needs. About Alyssa Blask Campbell Alyssa Blask Campbell is CEO of Seed & Sew, a platform that offers consultations and courses on emotional intelligence, as well as creating a modern parenting village. She has a master’s degree in early childhood education and is a leading expert in emotional development and travels the globe speaking on the topic. Her first book, Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, published in October 2023 from HarperCollins. Follow @seed.and.sew. Guest Resources: Website: Seed & Sew Book: Big Kids, Bigger Feelings: Navigating Defiance, Meltdowns, Anxiety to Raise Confident, Connected Kids Episode Sponsors: LMNT OFFER: Right now, for my listeners LMNT is offering a free sample pack with any LMNT drink mix purchase at DrinkLMNT.com/FEELGOOD. That’s 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT any LMNT drink mix purchase. This deal is only available through my link so. Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. USE LINK: DrinkLMNT.com/FEELGOOD ANIMA MUNDI OFFER: To get THE PUREST, MOST DELICIOUS PLANT-POWERED protein blend, infused with real vanilla and harmonizing adaptogens go to Animamundiherbals.com and use code: KIM20 to get 20% off your purchase! USE LINK: Animamundiherbals.com and use code: KIM20 to get 20% off your purchase! Episode Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Parenting and Emotions02:48 Understanding Emotions in Parenting06:01 The Role of Connection in Parenting08:50 Identifying Needs Behind Behaviors12:09 Navigating Punishment and Connection14:48 The Importance of Self-Regulation17:51 Co-Regulation and Emotional Intelligence21:09 Addressing Lying and Trust23:47 Creating a Safe Space for Sharing27:00 Understanding Fear and Vulnerability29:45 The Impact of Trauma on Parenting32:59 Conclusion and Resources SOLLUNA PRODUCT LINKS Glowing Greens Powder™ Feel Good SBO Probiotics Feel Good Detoxy Feel Good Digestive Enzymes Feel Good Starter Kit Feel Good Skincare KIMBERLY’S BOOKS Chilla Gorilla & Lanky Lemur Journey to the Heart The Beauty Detox Solution Beauty Detox Foods Beauty Detox Power Radical Beauty Recipes For Your Perfectly Imperfect Life You Are More Than You Think You Are OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY! Wellness Insights: How to Listen to Your Body for Nutritional Guidance How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard EP. 877 How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo Powered and Distributed by: PodcastOne Transcript: Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast, which is all about heart-led living and wellness. When we awaken the power of our hearts and let that guide us through our daily choices and decisions, through our four cornerstones, food, body, emotional well-being, and spiritual growth, we will experience the most incredible results and create more vitality, health, strength, peace, abundance, and love in our lives. I am your host, Kimberly Snyder, New York Times bestselling author, founder of Solluna, creator of the research-based Heart Aligned Meditation, wellness expert, nutritionist, and international speaker. I am passionate about supporting you on your unique heart and wellness journey. For more information on todays show please go to mysolluna.com for show notes and links. Let’s get started. Speaker 1 (01:29.13)So thank you so much for being here with us today and congrats on your new book. This is your second one. Speaker 2 (01:30.73) Yeah, yeah, my first one, Tiny Human’s Big Emotions came out in 2023. I was like 32 weeks pregnant when that one published, was a whirlwind. Wow. Yeah, that one hit the New York Times bestseller list, which was exciting. Yeah. And then a few weeks after it published, was doing well. Our editor reached out and was like, Alyssa, will you write another book? I was like, actually, I just need a nap. I’m so tired. And so I turned to Rachel, who I’ve worked with, had the privilege of working with now for seven years. And she works with me at my company. And I asked her she would write this bad boy with me. And she said, yeah. So we were able to do it. Well, I think this is so great because many of us are parents in the community or are thinking about being parents in the future or even not. feel like parenting books help us understand ourselves. And I can say as a parent, there’s been this incredible experience of feeling like I’m reparenting myself. And most of us are not learned. You we don’t learn. to handle emotions, have tools as you talk about in your book. And I went through this period of this, where it’s like, hmm, you know, it just felt a little sad and I had to process that. But I also think we’re given the, you know, the childhoods that were meant to be given. But I feel like this is, you know, this is big stuff we’re talking about here. Yeah, people often say they like come for their kids, but they stay for themselves. That so much of this work. We say if you have a nervous system like this works for you. We are really just talking about neuroscience and what it’s like to be a human on planet Earth and be in relationship with other humans. And man, it’s doozy sometimes. Yeah. Speaker 1 (02:55.63)Yeah, and I like how you talk about upfront. It’s not about trying to shield ourselves or our children from hardships because you know my nine-year-old now I can see him being more self-conscious about what he wears to school and Then he told me that there was a child like in one of the older grades who kind of made fun of his dog man sure now he won’t wear it and it just brings up stuff and It’s a lot like all the layers of kind of reliving what we’ve been through as parents. 100%. And I find for myself as a parent, there’s nothing harder than just watching your child experience something hard, like being made fun of, feeling left out, feeling that shame or embarrassment. And knowing that it’s not our job to take it away, but instead to be with them through those hard things to let them know that they can navigate this and survive it. It’s so hard. to do in practice as a parent is allowing it. Well, I’m not sure that all of us were even raised with parents that were aware that there was hardship. I wasn’t. I’m not just blaming my parents or anything. just I don’t think that’s how they were raised either. So I just know that there was a lot of things that I pushed down because I couldn’t handle them. Speaker 1 (04:26.614)And I think that’s ultimately why I turned to certain things like bulimia and eating disorders. I couldn’t digest life. And, you know, as adults, we continue to learn and grow and pass on, you know, more tools to our children. Totally, and we’re not gonna heal all the things and that’s okay too. I think of my friend, Dr. Linietta Willis, she’s an intergenerational trauma therapist. And she talks about our legacy blessings and our legacy burdens. And our legacy blessings are those things that we wanna pass on, that we inherited and that we want to pass on to our children in the next gen. And our legacy burdens are those things that maybe we don’t want to pass on, but also knowing that we’re not going to heal all the burdens, that some of them will get passed on and that’s okay. We get to give our kids the tools and the outlets to continue to heal and process. Yeah Speaker 1 (05:24.078)Well, I love how, and we’ll get into some of the more specific tools you talk about, but there’s a underlying theme of connection, which is, you know, in my work with the heart and just being connected to self and always, even if we’re not perfect parents, if we can stay empathetic, we can be connected. Our children will really feel that. 100%. And when we’re talking about different topics in big kids in this book, we talk about a number of different topics, but you’re right, the through line is not it. The goal isn’t to say, Hey, say this script at this time, or say these exact words or do this exact thing. The through line for us is how do you maintain connection and just stay in relationship with each other and recognizing that Yeah. Speaker 2 (06:13.336)Sometimes relationship is messy and hard and sometimes it feels good and easy and you’re not failing if you’re in conflict in relationship or you’re in the messy hard parts. That’s just a part of being in relationship with each other. Right. Well, you know, as you say, these tiny humans and then middle childhood, there’s different things happening on in their brain and their prefrontal cortex and the way that they process information. So I want to ask you as a parent, you know, some real questions. And then of course, it will illustrate some of the information that you share in big kids, bigger, bigger feelings. either you or Rachel use an example where, obviously paraphrasing here, but I think it was one of the daughters. was teasing the sibling. then the mama, which was you, Rachel, said, well, no screen time tomorrow, if you remember this. And I think as a parent, sometimes we see behaviors in our children. And in our family dynamic, our older son, who’s four years older than our younger son, who’s now five, sometimes he’ll take his choice because he can, and he’s bigger, or he’ll do things. And as hard as a parent, like we don’t know. Sometimes you wanna say, because my kids don’t get screen time except on the weekends. So sometimes I’ll say something, well, next Saturday you’re not gonna get your 30 minutes of screen time. like you said, it’s punishment, give, take, but sometimes you don’t know what else to do. Totally, yeah. Well, and that’s real and a part of just being a human on planet Earth too, that you’re not always gonna in the moment have the answers. So giving ourselves grace is so key here too. But in an ideal world, what we’re looking at is trying to identify, we get to be like a detective and see what’s the need that’s driving this behavior. So when your older son comes and takes that toy from his younger son, is it a need for connection? Speaker 2 (08:08.768)Is he really trying to connect or engage or get somebody’s attention, which is a connection? You get so much attention though. Some of our kids, it’s like a leaky cup. It can feel like a leaky cup for connection. I have a high connection seeker. My daughter’s a high connection seeker. And it can feel like there’s not enough connection in the world that will be enough for her. And my son is not a high connection seeker. It’s almost like it feels easier to fill his connection cup. But also for him, his sensory needs are more demanding than hers. we all just have our own little blueprint walking through this world. But when we can look at what is the need driving the behavior and we break these down into two categories. We have sensory needs and we talk about the nervous system, the nine sensory systems which we can get into. But when we’re looking at that, we’re really looking at are they under stimulated or overstimulated? Are they hungry? Are they tired? Do they need to move their body? Do they need a break from stim? They need to chill. Right, okay. That’s more easier to decode in a way. Speaker 2 (09:11.822)For a lot of us, we grew up in cultures where sensory needs were seen as needs. Food, water, movement, were seen as needs. And connection needs were often seen as wants. It was like attention-seeking behavior, and that was a negative thing. And it wasn’t seen as, you need attention, that you have this need for inclusion or belonging or knowing that you’re loved or worthy or valued. so for a lot of us, the connection needs can actually be quite triggering. where it can feel like, my gosh, this kid’s so needy. They need so much. And that’s our own bias coming up into play and being able to recognize that is half the battle. And then really being able to see like, okay, this is a need for connection. And maybe I just spent a bunch of time connecting with this kiddo and maybe they’re a high connection needs kid. And so what are the outlets for that? Great. Speaker 2 (10:07.154)And we give some examples in the book. And I was actually, was just at an event down in LA where we were, I was met with a group of a hundred moms and we were talking about exactly this. Like what are ways that we can help our kids? Like if I can’t give them more connection in this moment, I’m cooking dinner or I’m trying to do something. What are outlets for that? And we have things like journaling back and forth or being able to call a friend and chat with them on the phone or. FaceTime a grandparent or a cousin or a friend or an aunt or uncle and find ways to have that outlet that’s not always directly from you as the parent or maybe even from the sibling who might have lower connection needs and kind of needs a break to be by themselves for a little bit. Right. Okay. So would you say as a parenting expert, Alyssa, punishment or taking things away doesn’t really work? It just doesn’t solve the problem. What we’re going to do is we’re responding to the behavior on the surface. As long as we’re not meeting that need, you’re going to keep seeing new behaviors pop up because the need doesn’t go away. Right? In the same way that if you had like a baby who was hungry, you could bounce them and shush them all day long, but until you feed them, they’re not going to stop crying because they’re hungry. And if we have a child who needs to move their body or a child who needs to connect, we might put out the fires on the surface, but until we meet that need, you’re just gonna see new ones pop up. Speaker 1 (11:40.226)Do you think that there’s some children in the way that they’re, you know, finding their way in the world? Like my older son is very mischievous, for example. Slime in my farm boots and he thinks it’s hilarious and he laughs like he’s always… Pranks like he loves it. And he just thinks it’s hilarious. And he gets so much attention. Again, like always, all the time. Do you feel like maybe some of this behavior is, you he wants his… He would. Speaker 2 (11:54.888)Such a connection seeker. Speaker 1 (12:09.57)get a rise out of his brother and. really from a place of connection. I want your attention. want you to notice me. brother. From anybody, right? Our high connection seekers, they’ll seek it out anywhere. we can help them identify that. I would say things like, that was a silly prank that you did, or that was silly joke. Did you want me to laugh? Were you trying to connect with me and help kind of bridge that awareness for them of when you’re doing these things, it’s because you want to connect. That’s how we help build their awareness of what is my need. So then when they grow up in the world, they can move through the world knowing, when I feel this way, it’s because I’m hungry. When I feel that way, it’s because I’m tired. When I feel this way, I need to move my body. When I’m doing these things, it’s because I need to connect with somebody, because I need to feel that sense of connection and belong. you Speaker 1 (13:07.278)As many of you know, I’ve been drinking our beloved Power Protein Smoothie Community Recipe for many years. And I do this day to day as a great way to get energizing protein into my day without feeling too heavy. Usually I drink it in the early or mid afternoons. And lately for the protein, I’ve been using the most pure, delicious vanilla chai plant-based protein blend that I want to share with you by Anima Mundi. This protein is made from pumpkin seeds, brown rice, sacha inchi, and pea, and it contains adaptogens like astralagus, ashwagandha, and aluthero, which all have been known to help support recovery, enhance performance, and help the body adapt to everyday stress. It also has digestion-boosting warming ingredients. You know we love that, like cardamom, cinnamon, and ginger. This protein tastes delicious and there’s a subtle sweetness to it which comes from the vanilla and the monk fruit. It’s a way to deeply nourish your cells with amino acids, complete plant-based protein. To get this delicious plant-based blend, please go to anemamundiherbals.com and use code Kim20 to get 20 % off your purchase. Again, we’re talking about the amazing vanilla chai protein powder. That’s anemomundierbals.com code Kim20, A-N-I-M-A-M-U-N-D-I-H-E-R-B-A-L-S.com code Kim20 to get 20 % off your purchase. In a world that is constantly promoting health fads and quick fixes, we can never get past the importance of the basics, such as creating optimal digestion, eating whole foods, and hydration. Yes, hydration. When we are optimally hydrated, our skin glows and is nourished, and it greatly helps us avoid headaches, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. Besides water, we need electrolytes, which need to be replenished like probiotics. Every morning in my room temperature water that I drink first thing, Speaker 1 (15:27.99)I add a packet of Element electrolytes, usually the watermelon or raspberry flavors, which contain a science-backed mix of magnesium, potassium, and sodium. Element contains no sugar or artificial colors or fillers. I highly recommend that you also incorporate electrolytes into your routine as well to optimize your hydration, which your body, mind, and heart will greatly benefit from. And for now, our amazing community listeners, We’ll get a free sample pack with any element drink mix at www.drinkelement.com slash feel good. That’s eight single serving packets for free with any element drink mix purchase. Please go to www.drinkelement.com slash feel good. That’s www.drinklmnt.com slash feel good. Also check out the new element sparkling, which is a sparkly, fizzy electrolyte water if you love fizzy drinks. Speaker 1 (16:34.958)I’ll just tell you a fear as a parent hearing this is, again, he gets so much attention. Again, everybody says it, right? I pay so much attention to E. So I guess my fear is if he’s still wanting more, what if when he grows up, he gets into unhealthy relationships or he just always has to be in a relationship because of that. I want to reframe, like, you’re looking at intimate relationships. I see most often with our high connection seekers, they often actually seek it out even much outside of intimate relationships in friendships and in other spaces where, like, they might be the human who corrals kids to, like, all get together and play a game or they can often be, like, leaders in a pack where they… are so many outlets for connection that it’s not just an intimate one-to-one relationship. There are so many avenues for it. And as they continue to grow, they’ll find places to connect in different ways to make that happen. And we can support them along the way. But these are humans who it’s a superpower and we need them in this world. My daughter is like this. She is a high connection seeker. She walks into a room of 100 people she doesn’t know. And she’s like, my God, yes, 100 new friends. She’s 20 months. And she’s four? my gosh. and do you think that correlates with being an extrovert? Yeah, a lot of way. Speaker 2 (18:00.494)A lot of our high connection seeking kiddos are also extroverted. You a little bit have to be because it’s going to fill that cup, right? That like when you’re in that, although I just had a kid pop into my head who I when I was teaching and he was five years old and he had high connection needs, but he was an introvert and he would seek out more one to one like peer connection connection for me as a teacher. But he would look forward in those kind of smaller groups. activities and avenues, but he would glom on to like other kids and just want to be near them and want to talk to them and want to share and yada yada. But it was like he had one or two good friends in each space. He wasn’t like, I want to hang out with everyone in the class. Well, so there’s natural extroverts, introverts, connectors, like you said. How do you think this relates to, and you know, this is sort of on a spiritual level and in yogic traditions, you talk about the true self and self connection, which is self-effulgence and fulfilling and being so connected to the love inside that you wanna share it with people, but you’re not needing it. Yeah, I think that we’re, I’m going to pull in the like neuroscience and too. When we’re looking at this, I want to recognize that there’s not a human on the planet where there’s a one size fits all. Right? all of us, our nervous systems operate differently in the way that we integrate stimuli, the way that we integrate the world around us and make sense of it is different for all of us. And for some kids, they are their superpowers. I can noticing the details. or they know if something moves in their environment. They can get really dysregulated by like piles or clutter or things like that because they’re super attuned to the visual stimuli in their space. Some humans who sound, they’re really aware of the sounds in their environment and they can get really overstimulated by sound, especially if there’s competing sounds happening. Some kids who notice the details of how clothing feels in a heightened way. It’s too itchy, it’s too tight, it’s too something. Speaker 2 (20:02.378)And I look at these as superpowers, that they’re really good at noticing, they’re very attuned to those senses. And there are some humans who aren’t as attuned, and for them, can, it then appears as though they can maybe be more easygoing or they can move through the world differently, because their brain isn’t so hyper-focused on like, my gosh, what is that noise? I can’t stop hearing that clicking sound in the background and kind of tuning into those things in different ways. And so when we’re looking at the integration of all of that stimuli. We go through the nine senses in the book and outline it. But I think it’s really important in then saying like how you integrate them then determines how you show up in the world and what you need from the world around you based on how your nervous system is integrating that stimuli, because it’s going to find kind of homeostasis and regulation in different ways based on your unique nervous system. Does that make sense? It does to me. It sounds a little complicated to explain to a child. for sure. I’m going to break it down in different words to Yeah, to a kid. we this so the bulk of the work that we do at Seed is in school systems. I work in schools, elementary, middle schools, and then in childcare programs. And we teach teachers like how to talk to kids about this. How do you teach them about their nervous system? Totally. Well, there’s this idea of self-regulation even is something I think we need to really break down that and self-regulation. Speaker 2 (21:32.404)You teach self-regulation through co-regulation and self-regulation isn’t one size fits all. Wait, so say that again for a moment. mean co-regulation, you regulate yourself and then you’re in the space and then… You know, it’s like goosebumps. It’s almost like the science of heart coherence. Well, our hearts are giving off a magnetic field that’s 100 times stronger than the brain. So when we’re more emotionally calm, you talk about emotional intelligence and the more coherent, our heart rhythms are smooth and our… borrowing your comms. Speaker 2 (21:52.108)Not anymore. Speaker 1 (22:06.306)Brains are nervous, everything’s in sync. People around you feel that. Totally. So as we calm ourselves, we can calm our children more. That’s right. I think of it like the difference between a thermometer and a thermostat. A thermometer is just going to read the temperature of the room, you’re going to join it. A thermostat sets that temperature. And in order to set that temperature, you have to be mindful of your own regulation. So often we want kids to regulate for us. We want them to get calm for us when we can’t. Right. Yeah, I see parents who are literally screaming in public. Yeah. And they’re like, you calm down. We’re at the playground and I heard this, this mom didn’t know we were there. We were in the bathroom and she was like talking to her two girls and then me and my younger son came out and she was like embarrassed. I mean, I felt bad for her because obviously she didn’t want, no one wants to be that person. Nobody wants to be in that state where their body feels so out of control that you’re like, need the humans around me to change their behavior so I can feel in control. And so so much, that’s why I said so many folks, they come for the kids, but stay for themselves that we dive into what is, how does your nervous system work? What does it look like to learn how to build your own self-awareness and self-regulation so that we can then navigate co-regulation with our kids so that Speaker 2 (23:28.098)when our kid comes in and they roll their eyes and they slam the door and they give a sass or the sarcasm or whatever, that we can be the calm force in that moment. And it doesn’t mean I don’t hold boundaries. It doesn’t mean that any behavior is allowed. It does mean that I am really working on, okay, how do I calm my body so that I can respond with intention instead of react from a place of dysregulation. So let’s play this out for any mamas out there who have teenagers or getting close to teenagers, not there yet. But although I’ve seen some behavior from my nine-year-old defiance and disrespect, which you talk about in the book. Let’s say your teenager comes home and you say, or, hey, I’ll be the teenager. Well, it seems like something happened at school today. I’m fine. Yeah, I am here if you want to chat. Would you like space or do you want to talk about? Speaker 1 (24:30.862)Why are you so annoying? Why are you always trying to say that to me? I love you so much. I’m going to be cooking in the kitchen. If you want to come touch base, that’s where I’ll be That’s not a fun. Okay. Let’s do another one. Yeah. I mean, so it’s a center. You’re the center and you’re not trying to grab. Okay. I love it. I’m not taking the bait. Right? Like the bait is all, that would be me joining their energy. And I’m saying like, I’ve got you. I’m still calm in your storm. Okay, let’s do this one, which I have experienced where my son will call me by my first name and I don’t like it. Sure. Okay, so I’ll be the teenager tween, okay? Yeah. Comes home from school. Hey, Alyssa. Speaker 2 (25:15.544)Hey, did you want my attention? I heard you use my first name. Alisha? Yeah, it does sound like you want my attention. I’m here if you want to chat or hang. Lyssa, Lyssa! Yeah, come

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