How This Proven Method Can Help You Achieve Your New Year Goals with Joanna Grover [Episode #959]

This week’s topic:

In this episode of the Feel Good Podcast, Kimberly Snyder engages in a deep conversation with Joanna Grover, co-author of ‘The Choice Point.’ They explore the concept of choice points—split-second decisions that can lead us closer to our goals or derail us. Joanna discusses the power of imagery and sensory experiences in shaping behavior and overcoming challenges, emphasizing the importance of engaging multiple senses for effective change. The conversation also touches on real-life applications of these techniques, including overcoming instant gratification and visualizing future goals, such as relationships and personal achievements. In this conversation, Joanna discusses the transformative power of imagery techniques in personal growth, stress management, and improving relationships. She emphasizes the importance of starting small, overcoming limiting beliefs, and aligning one’s head and heart to navigate life more effectively. The discussion also highlights the potential of these techniques for children and their application in everyday situations, including stress and sleep management.

About Joanna Grover

Joanna Grover, LCSW, is an executive coach with two decades of experience as a cognitive behavioral therapist specializing in anxiety. She’s worked with the US Department of Commerce, Olympic athletes, and C-Suite executives, and she is a board-certified coach and member of the International Coaching Federation and the Harvard Institute of Coaching. Joanna lives in Miami. Her new book, co-authored with Jonathan Rhodes, is THE CHOICE POINT: The Scientifically Proven Method to Push Past Mental Walls and Achieve Your Goals, published earlier this year by Hachette.

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Guest Resources

Book: HE CHOICE POINT: The Scientifically Proven Method to Push Past Mental Walls and Achieve Your Goals

Episode Chapters

Chapters

00:00 Heart-Led Living and Wellness Introduction
01:52 Understanding Choice Points in Daily Life
06:03 The Power of Imagery in Overcoming Challenges
09:52 Sensory Experiences and Behavioral Change
14:03 Real-Life Applications of Imagery Techniques
17:55 Using Imagery for Instant Gratification and Long-Term Goals
22:04 Hydration and Wellness Practices
23:56 Visualizing Relationships and Future Goals
25:22 The Power of Imagery in Personal Growth
30:07 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs and Negative Thoughts
35:21 Applying Imagery Techniques in Everyday Life
39:52 Imagery for Stress Management and Sleep
42:54 Aligning Head and Heart for Better Living
46:38 The Transformative Impact of Imagery on Relationships

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Transcript:

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:00.238)
Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast, which is all about heart led living and wellness. When we awaken the power of our hearts and let that guide us through our daily choices and decisions, through our four cornerstones, food, body, emotional well-being and spiritual growth, we will experience the most incredible results and create more vitality, health, strength, peace.

abundance and love in our lives. I am your host, Kimberly Snyder, New York Times bestselling author, founder of Saluna, creator of the research-based Heart Aligned Meditation, wellness expert, nutritionist and international speaker. I am passionate about supporting you on your unique heart and wellness journey. Let’s get started.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:57.304)
I’m so excited to share my conversation with you today with Joanna Grover, who is the co-author of the book, The Choice Point, The Scientifically Proven Method to Push Past Mental Walls and Achieve Your Goals. She is a cognitive behavioral therapist, specializing in anxiety. She’s worked with Olympic athletes, executives and the US Department of Commerce.

And I have to say that I loved speaking to Joanna because whilst the book and her work is very scientifically based, it also feels very holistic to me. feels very spiritual. And a lot of it is based on this idea of holistic imagery and using our imagination and using that to propel us into the future that we want. So I’m very excited to share the show.

with you in just a moment. Before we do, little reminder to check out our website, mysaluna.com, where you can submit questions for the Q &A shows, where you can find more podcasts, articles. I’ve written thousands of blogs over the years that I think you would enjoy. There are also thousands of plant-based recipes that are simple and delicious, meditations and more. Everything is over there, so please be sure to check it out.

All right, all that being said, let’s get into our interview today with Joanna Grover. Joanna, thank you so much for joining me here today. I loved your very interesting book, The Choice Point, and it’s been sitting in my living room for some months. And I’m really excited that we were able to get our schedules work and for some time to chat today. first of all, thank you so much for coming on our show.

thank you. I’m delighted to be here. And as you pointed out, the choice point, it’s a book that takes some time to sort of percolate because it challenges, you know, our daily routines. It’s interesting when you even boil it down to these moments, these choice points, do I do this? Do I not? Because sometimes, as you know, Joanna, we get so many thousands of thoughts, we don’t really

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (03:16.601)
think about the ones that are truly impactful in our future and moving our lives forward. So can you talk a little bit about defining it more clearly, what these choice points are and how often they come up in our days and in our lives? Well, I’m glad you brought that up because the way we see choice points is there are these split seconds decisions that we make usually right before a challenge.

Am I going to go for a run or am I going to stay in bed? Am I going to order dessert or so these decisions that either take us closer to the life we want or they derail us and take us further. So we have them all day long. We don’t want you to think of every one of these decisions. Just drive yourself and the people around you crazy. But the ones that are attached to your goal and to your life purpose and meaning.

Those are the real, those are the choice points that we’re talking about. So we’re going to get into all the imagine, you know, the imagination and the imagery, which I thought was really fascinating. And it was also interesting that your forward was from Martina Navruchalova, you know, with athletes, this has been something that we’ve heard about before, but we don’t necessarily apply it to our lives of those of us who are non athletes.

But before we get there, Joanne, I wanted to ask you, there’s this part in the book where you talk about spontaneous thoughts. And I think most all of us can relate to things coming in. And like you said, maybe they’re aligned with our values. Maybe they help us. A lot of times they don’t. How much of that is informed by trauma, patterns from the past? And are we, I mean, we hear a lot about neuroplasticity and there’s so much around trauma now with your work and going into the,

the imagery again, which I’m simplifying here, but we’ll talk about in a second. Is that a tool for helping us to overcome some of these past patterns of trauma? Absolutely. Yeah. This, theory that behind the choice point is a body of science known as functional imagery training. And to boil it down to its essence, it’s basically what we elaborate on will shape our behavior. Okay. So if I’m going to elaborate on

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:34.977)
a negative event that happened to me in the past. mean mentally elaborate. Yeah, mentally elaborate. So in our work, what we do is we teach people that you can’t monitor the thousands of thoughts you have a day, but you can monitor the images that come along with that, the imagery. You can actually learn to change a channel.

So moving away from this, going down this road, so to speak, sometimes it feels like we’re having these conversations in our head. It’s very audio based. So you’re saying we can create a new picture, an image and move somewhere else. Exactly. Yeah. And before I did this work with Choice Points and with imagery, I was a cognitive behavioral therapist for almost 20 years.

So I dealt a lot with things. My specialty was anxiety. And what I found with this is, yeah, like instead of all the talking, images are powerful, they’re emotional and, and emotions drive our behavior. So it’s a really quick way into the mind. So one of the things you talk about is the mental mutiny versus cognitive control. What’s in the line with my values, my long-term goals.

And so I think about if I had access to your work, Joanna, how I would have used it. I healed my own eating disorder years ago when I was in high school. I was bulimic and I just went on and then I remember one day I said, I just don’t want to do this anymore. And it was really that battle of will. And it was hard, but I was able to overcome it. think what you’re mentioning here, this cognitive, the long-term goals, I don’t want to be this self-abusive person.

But let’s say in that example, and I know eating disorders, so many complexities. The mental mutiny was, this is an easy way to self-sue, this is my pattern. How might imagery have helped me or in your work with the choice point? I mean, it’s like that moment, am I going to binge and purge or am I not? I mean, this is kind of a dark example, but when I was reading your work, thought, hmm, this isn’t, it was a pattern I was in for over a year.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (07:58.127)
So I think about all the many patterns that all of us have, whether it’s abusive self-talk or self-doubt or whatever it is, going into having unhealthy relationships, so on and so forth. Well, the first thing, it’s great that you’re having that awareness, right? That you have a choice, right? You can do this or you can do that. through your imagination, we take you. The first thing we do is we take you to a future where you continue this behavior.

And what would it be like? Seeing yourself in the future. Your future self. But not just seeing, but what does it smell like? What does it taste like? What sort of things are you telling yourself? What emotions are there? And that’s usually for most people a pretty heavy experience. So then we contrast that immediately following with, okay, let’s imagine that you did tackle

you know, changing this behavior. And little by little, you got better and better. We take that future. And that future feels, for most people, a lot less heavy, it feels lighter, they feel a sense of like satisfaction or success. So now we’ve created a choice point with imagery. Again, it’s not words, because words, we can lie to ourselves all day long, right? Yeah.

But our talk is cheap. But the imagery is very powerful. And that’s really how we shape human behavior. mean, advertisers know this. now we’re really using this for improving our own behavior. it also sounds, you’re saying imagery, but it also sounds sensory because it’s not just visual. You’re talking about smells and tastes.

So it’s more like a full body. Yes. Thank you for bringing that up Kimberly because it really is. It’s not, it is, you know, it is sensory. In fact, it’s seven senses. So it’s a five that, know, plus emotion and motion, you know, seeing yourself moving in the future. How will you handle this? How will you handle this? Whether it’s a relationship with food or a person or yourself.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:17.807)
You know, it’s really up to you. What I love about this work is it gives someone a sense of agency so they have control over their life. And it takes hold like really quickly, which is amazing too. Yeah. So that’s like, it’s not something that like, oh, you’re to have to stick with this therapist for a long time. What we see is in six sessions, it takes hold. Really? It’s quick. So, um,

Another thing my mom used to do when I was starting to read your book, thought, is this related to back in the day Oprah used to promote these vision boards? Do you know what I’m talking about where you cut out pictures in magazines of sort of the house you want or the shape of your body or whatever you want and then so you’d see these images every day? Is that like a, know, kindergarten version of your work and research or complete?

Well, we just had a conversation the other day with Dr. Hacker, who is an Olympic coach, mental skills coach. And she she said, if anybody says visualization, someone’s going to get hurt. You know, that’s her like visualization and vision board is different than imagery, because imagery, as you said earlier, is multi sensory. Right. So if there’s a difference in the research, what’s

is if we engage, the more senses we engage, the better the outcome. then why, Joanna, is it, you know, it just seems like when you have an image, it’s tangible. But what you’re saying is all the senses in your brain together is more powerful than, you know, because sometimes we put so much, you’re having a bad day or you want to be reminded, then you can look at that picture and sort of say, OK, calls me back.

What you’re talking about is entirely formless in our minds. Yeah. I mean, a picture may be a cue. We use cues too. So that picture may be a cue to put yourself in that image, in that imagery. So I’m there, I’m in that house or I’m in, you know, whatever it is, I’m in that experience. So the picture can cue up the imagery in your head. Wow.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (12:37.613)
won’t be as powerful as putting yourself in the experience. then how long do we stay in that experience to enact real shifting? I know there’s a whole chapter here about commitment and. The interesting thing is not long. Not long is the answer. So 30 seconds. 30 seconds. So let’s use, let’s use a real life example. It wasn’t, we’ve given us an example with a client who.

head goal, she wanted to create something different. I don’t know if it’s sports, maybe that doesn’t relate to as many people in our audience, but something that’s widespread, like don’t know, a work goal or a family goal and how you took them through the steps that you mentioned in your book. So this client that comes to mind, it’s a very high performing executive.

And she found that she was taking her work home with her. So she would walk in the door and she had a stay at home husband. And it was like, everyone had to fall in line, but she had little kids. But she was walking into her home as though she was the boss and it was causing problems in their relationship. And, and also just in her own, like she didn’t feel great about it. She didn’t want to be that kind of mom. So,

When we work with imagery, we work with cues. Athletes use cues all the time. So her cue was her front door. And when she saw that and when she touched the handle, you know, the doorknob, she just for a split second went into the kind of mom that she wanted to be. Wow. And then again, it doesn’t take that long. And then she crossed that threshold.

and after taking a deep breath. And then she developed rituals like, well, I’m going to hop in the shower first and change my clothes, get on my work clothes, like really be in this, be present with my kids. But that cue and that imagery was really important to like, okay, how do I want to show up for my family? And it was all the senses. So she would feel it was tactile and smell. Yeah. And there was a certain Bush,

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (15:01.419)
outside of her home that was fragrant. when she was imagining the front door, she could like smell the fragrance, she could feel the temperature. know, again, the more senses we involve, the more powerful it is, because we’re wired to resist change. Right? No one really wants change. We say we do, but it’s temporary. if we can actually be in an immersive experience in our mind’s eye,

It’s almost as if we’re tricking the mind and body to believe that change happened. Wow. I remember the research you mentioned about obesity and how this was used with, you know, how we can make choices. Because as you said in the book, we all know we’re supposed to exercise and drink water and eat healthy, but those choices come up. Am going to eat this? Am I going eat the box of cookies? That’s true. Now we have a member of our team who,

She just, you know, through osmosis, she’s been sort of like, she doesn’t work in coaching, but on the team, but she does support work for us. And she shared that for the first time ever, she usually is so tempted by Halloween candy. Like it’s in her freezer, know, she’ll open that door and then she’ll, and she said now, cause she’s been using our method, she said she opens that freezer.

And she has no desire. She’s like really dumbfounded by it, but she has no desire to eat it because she’s elaborating on, you know, what she wants to fit into and how she wants to feel. And so the chocolate, whatever bar, Snickers bar isn’t nearly as enticing. So in your work, Joanna, would you say that elaboration happens?

as she opens the door and she’s staring at the candy or is it happening before she opens the door and exposes herself to that very, you’re like, on the edge of the decision. Do know what I mean? Versus a couple seconds before. Yeah, both, both. We’re always elaborating the earlier you can do it. so if she, she basically has like trained herself, she’s rewired her brain in a way to like, I’m not going to, you know, cause when

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:25.763)
When we hear or smell or taste something, we’re elaborating on it, right? If someone’s eating a pizza or we see a box pizza, we’ll start to elaborate on, well, how good that would taste or what’s on that pizza. So we’re in that experience, but we can change to anything else that we want. The decision is ours. The choice is ours. But the cue for

for a lot of people is the refrigerator door handle. That’s when they’ll begin elaborating. But the truth is we’re elaborating all day long. How do you deal with such a strong pull for instant gratification? Let’s say it’s someone’s like, I really need this glass of wine after work or the cookies or whatever it is, because the imagery and I know you talk about this and training ourselves, but it’s kind of, you know, not tangible or it’s future based versus

This is here right in front of me. So I’ll give you another story. When I was, I was the first person trained in this method in the U S and I came back and I, where, where were you trained in the United Kingdom? Oh yeah. So functional imagery training was born in the university of Plymouth in the United Kingdom. And as a therapist and a coach, I read about it and I was like, this is what I’ve been looking for.

I want to help people change. And so often as coaches and therapists, people get only so far. And the research here was like, they continue to get better. They continue to achieve. It was incredible resiliency. So I came back from my training and I asked for some volunteers that I wouldn’t charge for my services and they know that I’m learning this. So one of them was a neighbor of mine who wanted to quit smoking.

No, I had never helped anyone quit smoking before. wasn’t my jam. So I, I was like, okay, I’m going to use this method and see how it goes. And I can tell you it’s been almost five years and he’s still not smoking. And what it came down to is a sensory experience of eating a strawberry. And that’s going to sound so weird, but the choice came up.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:51.831)
Yeah. So, and this is his own imagination. Like we never know where someone’s imagination is in a go as coaches who work in this realm. It’s not like you have a script because people go to different places. And in his imagination, he went to a strawberry and the taste of a strawberry after a cigarette was really ashy and kind of like it, it just was a terrible texture and he couldn’t smell the strawberry and

without a cigarette, the strawberry was, it brought up like a childhood memory and he could really enjoy the taste. So that’s as simple as it was for him. Wow. And she used that over and over again. It strengthens with the one image becomes even more powerful. And he reinforced it with other things. He started to like watch other videos about quitting smoking, but over and over again, he’d come back to the strawberry and I was his neighbor. I, you know,

drop when I dropped strawberries off at his front door with a little note. So, you know, he was constantly using his, his imagery around this and being reminded. So I, that blew my mind. It was like, wow. how simple was that? You know, I didn’t have to say if you don’t stop smoking, do know what your chances are for lung cancer? Do you know what your chances are? I didn’t have to give him any data. There’s none of that.

simply gave him a sensory experience his own that was very compelling to him wow that is amazing

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:37.129)
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Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (23:56.296)
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Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:34.014)
Let’s say someone has their limiting beliefs, whatever they’re projecting out in the world, they want a relationship for instance, right? Let’s say someone has been single and they’re struggling to meet somebody. Can they use this work to visualize themselves in a relationship and the kind of person they would be and they could call that in or is your work more based on the decisions that are here and now, which of course would help you.

you know, feel empowered, you know, in any case, I think to be the kind of person you want to be, which would help with that. But do you know what I’m saying? visualize that. Yeah. So I think maybe what in part what you’re asking is, will it help you manifest that relationship? Yes, yes, exactly. Can you create a different future based reality of what you would want, whether that’s work or in relationships or whatever?

Now, here’s where we get to, like my co-author who’s a scientist would be like, you can’t measure that. So no. Yeah, right. And that’s why we’re a good team because he brings the science and I bring more of the, you know, the like, complicated. Yeah. Human and dare I say like spiritual, like, you don’t know, you don’t know where this journey will take someone. Right. So, so we do start small. I wouldn’t necessarily start with a relationship. I’d start with something.

What I found is that when people realize that it works, then you get their buy-in. And now, it’s like, wow, what else can I apply this to? And we see that time and time again. There’s a great couple, a husband and wife team that trained with us, and their imagery was to go on sabbatical and travel around the world. They didn’t start there, but that’s where it ended up. And they are. They are traveling around the world now.

Wow. Well, that makes total sense to me because you’re almost, as you say, like it becomes a reality and you shape your world, your actions. have to take inspired action, but then you work towards that. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it’s amazing how simple it is. Like we all have this ability, but no one ever taught us to tap into it. Right. Yeah. We, we, we’ve worked with a number of athletes and high performing people, but

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:49.52)
It works for everybody. You know, you don’t have to be a champion in a sport. The interesting thing is a lot of these champions don’t use it in their life. Like they’ll use it to prepare f

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She has a master’s degree in early childhood education and is a leading expert in emotional development and travels the globe speaking on the topic. Her first book, Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, published in October 2023 from HarperCollins. Follow @seed.and.sew. Guest Resources: Website: Seed & Sew Book: Big Kids, Bigger Feelings: Navigating Defiance, Meltdowns, Anxiety to Raise Confident, Connected Kids Episode Sponsors: LMNT OFFER: Right now, for my listeners LMNT is offering a free sample pack with any LMNT drink mix purchase at DrinkLMNT.com/FEELGOOD. That’s 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT any LMNT drink mix purchase. This deal is only available through my link so. Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. 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Episode Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Parenting and Emotions02:48 Understanding Emotions in Parenting06:01 The Role of Connection in Parenting08:50 Identifying Needs Behind Behaviors12:09 Navigating Punishment and Connection14:48 The Importance of Self-Regulation17:51 Co-Regulation and Emotional Intelligence21:09 Addressing Lying and Trust23:47 Creating a Safe Space for Sharing27:00 Understanding Fear and Vulnerability29:45 The Impact of Trauma on Parenting32:59 Conclusion and Resources SOLLUNA PRODUCT LINKS Glowing Greens Powder™ Feel Good SBO Probiotics Feel Good Detoxy Feel Good Digestive Enzymes Feel Good Starter Kit Feel Good Skincare KIMBERLY’S BOOKS Chilla Gorilla & Lanky Lemur Journey to the Heart The Beauty Detox Solution Beauty Detox Foods Beauty Detox Power Radical Beauty Recipes For Your Perfectly Imperfect Life You Are More Than You Think You Are OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY! Wellness Insights: How to Listen to Your Body for Nutritional Guidance How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard EP. 877 How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo Powered and Distributed by: PodcastOne Transcript: Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast, which is all about heart-led living and wellness. When we awaken the power of our hearts and let that guide us through our daily choices and decisions, through our four cornerstones, food, body, emotional well-being, and spiritual growth, we will experience the most incredible results and create more vitality, health, strength, peace, abundance, and love in our lives. I am your host, Kimberly Snyder, New York Times bestselling author, founder of Solluna, creator of the research-based Heart Aligned Meditation, wellness expert, nutritionist, and international speaker. I am passionate about supporting you on your unique heart and wellness journey. For more information on todays show please go to mysolluna.com for show notes and links. Let’s get started. Speaker 1 (01:29.13)So thank you so much for being here with us today and congrats on your new book. This is your second one. Speaker 2 (01:30.73) Yeah, yeah, my first one, Tiny Human’s Big Emotions came out in 2023. I was like 32 weeks pregnant when that one published, was a whirlwind. Wow. Yeah, that one hit the New York Times bestseller list, which was exciting. Yeah. And then a few weeks after it published, was doing well. Our editor reached out and was like, Alyssa, will you write another book? I was like, actually, I just need a nap. I’m so tired. And so I turned to Rachel, who I’ve worked with, had the privilege of working with now for seven years. And she works with me at my company. And I asked her she would write this bad boy with me. And she said, yeah. So we were able to do it. Well, I think this is so great because many of us are parents in the community or are thinking about being parents in the future or even not. feel like parenting books help us understand ourselves. And I can say as a parent, there’s been this incredible experience of feeling like I’m reparenting myself. And most of us are not learned. You we don’t learn. to handle emotions, have tools as you talk about in your book. And I went through this period of this, where it’s like, hmm, you know, it just felt a little sad and I had to process that. But I also think we’re given the, you know, the childhoods that were meant to be given. But I feel like this is, you know, this is big stuff we’re talking about here. Yeah, people often say they like come for their kids, but they stay for themselves. That so much of this work. We say if you have a nervous system like this works for you. We are really just talking about neuroscience and what it’s like to be a human on planet Earth and be in relationship with other humans. And man, it’s doozy sometimes. Yeah. Speaker 1 (02:55.63)Yeah, and I like how you talk about upfront. It’s not about trying to shield ourselves or our children from hardships because you know my nine-year-old now I can see him being more self-conscious about what he wears to school and Then he told me that there was a child like in one of the older grades who kind of made fun of his dog man sure now he won’t wear it and it just brings up stuff and It’s a lot like all the layers of kind of reliving what we’ve been through as parents. 100%. And I find for myself as a parent, there’s nothing harder than just watching your child experience something hard, like being made fun of, feeling left out, feeling that shame or embarrassment. And knowing that it’s not our job to take it away, but instead to be with them through those hard things to let them know that they can navigate this and survive it. It’s so hard. to do in practice as a parent is allowing it. Well, I’m not sure that all of us were even raised with parents that were aware that there was hardship. I wasn’t. I’m not just blaming my parents or anything. just I don’t think that’s how they were raised either. So I just know that there was a lot of things that I pushed down because I couldn’t handle them. Speaker 1 (04:26.614)And I think that’s ultimately why I turned to certain things like bulimia and eating disorders. I couldn’t digest life. And, you know, as adults, we continue to learn and grow and pass on, you know, more tools to our children. Totally, and we’re not gonna heal all the things and that’s okay too. I think of my friend, Dr. Linietta Willis, she’s an intergenerational trauma therapist. And she talks about our legacy blessings and our legacy burdens. And our legacy blessings are those things that we wanna pass on, that we inherited and that we want to pass on to our children in the next gen. And our legacy burdens are those things that maybe we don’t want to pass on, but also knowing that we’re not going to heal all the burdens, that some of them will get passed on and that’s okay. We get to give our kids the tools and the outlets to continue to heal and process. Yeah Speaker 1 (05:24.078)Well, I love how, and we’ll get into some of the more specific tools you talk about, but there’s a underlying theme of connection, which is, you know, in my work with the heart and just being connected to self and always, even if we’re not perfect parents, if we can stay empathetic, we can be connected. Our children will really feel that. 100%. And when we’re talking about different topics in big kids in this book, we talk about a number of different topics, but you’re right, the through line is not it. The goal isn’t to say, Hey, say this script at this time, or say these exact words or do this exact thing. The through line for us is how do you maintain connection and just stay in relationship with each other and recognizing that Yeah. Speaker 2 (06:13.336)Sometimes relationship is messy and hard and sometimes it feels good and easy and you’re not failing if you’re in conflict in relationship or you’re in the messy hard parts. That’s just a part of being in relationship with each other. Right. Well, you know, as you say, these tiny humans and then middle childhood, there’s different things happening on in their brain and their prefrontal cortex and the way that they process information. So I want to ask you as a parent, you know, some real questions. And then of course, it will illustrate some of the information that you share in big kids, bigger, bigger feelings. either you or Rachel use an example where, obviously paraphrasing here, but I think it was one of the daughters. was teasing the sibling. then the mama, which was you, Rachel, said, well, no screen time tomorrow, if you remember this. And I think as a parent, sometimes we see behaviors in our children. And in our family dynamic, our older son, who’s four years older than our younger son, who’s now five, sometimes he’ll take his choice because he can, and he’s bigger, or he’ll do things. And as hard as a parent, like we don’t know. Sometimes you wanna say, because my kids don’t get screen time except on the weekends. So sometimes I’ll say something, well, next Saturday you’re not gonna get your 30 minutes of screen time. like you said, it’s punishment, give, take, but sometimes you don’t know what else to do. Totally, yeah. Well, and that’s real and a part of just being a human on planet Earth too, that you’re not always gonna in the moment have the answers. So giving ourselves grace is so key here too. But in an ideal world, what we’re looking at is trying to identify, we get to be like a detective and see what’s the need that’s driving this behavior. So when your older son comes and takes that toy from his younger son, is it a need for connection? Speaker 2 (08:08.768)Is he really trying to connect or engage or get somebody’s attention, which is a connection? You get so much attention though. Some of our kids, it’s like a leaky cup. It can feel like a leaky cup for connection. I have a high connection seeker. My daughter’s a high connection seeker. And it can feel like there’s not enough connection in the world that will be enough for her. And my son is not a high connection seeker. It’s almost like it feels easier to fill his connection cup. But also for him, his sensory needs are more demanding than hers. we all just have our own little blueprint walking through this world. But when we can look at what is the need driving the behavior and we break these down into two categories. We have sensory needs and we talk about the nervous system, the nine sensory systems which we can get into. But when we’re looking at that, we’re really looking at are they under stimulated or overstimulated? Are they hungry? Are they tired? Do they need to move their body? Do they need a break from stim? They need to chill. Right, okay. That’s more easier to decode in a way. Speaker 2 (09:11.822)For a lot of us, we grew up in cultures where sensory needs were seen as needs. Food, water, movement, were seen as needs. And connection needs were often seen as wants. It was like attention-seeking behavior, and that was a negative thing. And it wasn’t seen as, you need attention, that you have this need for inclusion or belonging or knowing that you’re loved or worthy or valued. so for a lot of us, the connection needs can actually be quite triggering. where it can feel like, my gosh, this kid’s so needy. They need so much. And that’s our own bias coming up into play and being able to recognize that is half the battle. And then really being able to see like, okay, this is a need for connection. And maybe I just spent a bunch of time connecting with this kiddo and maybe they’re a high connection needs kid. And so what are the outlets for that? Great. Speaker 2 (10:07.154)And we give some examples in the book. And I was actually, was just at an event down in LA where we were, I was met with a group of a hundred moms and we were talking about exactly this. Like what are ways that we can help our kids? Like if I can’t give them more connection in this moment, I’m cooking dinner or I’m trying to do something. What are outlets for that? And we have things like journaling back and forth or being able to call a friend and chat with them on the phone or. FaceTime a grandparent or a cousin or a friend or an aunt or uncle and find ways to have that outlet that’s not always directly from you as the parent or maybe even from the sibling who might have lower connection needs and kind of needs a break to be by themselves for a little bit. Right. Okay. So would you say as a parenting expert, Alyssa, punishment or taking things away doesn’t really work? It just doesn’t solve the problem. What we’re going to do is we’re responding to the behavior on the surface. As long as we’re not meeting that need, you’re going to keep seeing new behaviors pop up because the need doesn’t go away. Right? In the same way that if you had like a baby who was hungry, you could bounce them and shush them all day long, but until you feed them, they’re not going to stop crying because they’re hungry. And if we have a child who needs to move their body or a child who needs to connect, we might put out the fires on the surface, but until we meet that need, you’re just gonna see new ones pop up. Speaker 1 (11:40.226)Do you think that there’s some children in the way that they’re, you know, finding their way in the world? Like my older son is very mischievous, for example. Slime in my farm boots and he thinks it’s hilarious and he laughs like he’s always… Pranks like he loves it. And he just thinks it’s hilarious. And he gets so much attention. Again, like always, all the time. Do you feel like maybe some of this behavior is, you he wants his… He would. Speaker 2 (11:54.888)Such a connection seeker. Speaker 1 (12:09.57)get a rise out of his brother and. really from a place of connection. I want your attention. want you to notice me. brother. From anybody, right? Our high connection seekers, they’ll seek it out anywhere. we can help them identify that. I would say things like, that was a silly prank that you did, or that was silly joke. Did you want me to laugh? Were you trying to connect with me and help kind of bridge that awareness for them of when you’re doing these things, it’s because you want to connect. That’s how we help build their awareness of what is my need. So then when they grow up in the world, they can move through the world knowing, when I feel this way, it’s because I’m hungry. When I feel that way, it’s because I’m tired. When I feel this way, I need to move my body. When I’m doing these things, it’s because I need to connect with somebody, because I need to feel that sense of connection and belong. you Speaker 1 (13:07.278)As many of you know, I’ve been drinking our beloved Power Protein Smoothie Community Recipe for many years. And I do this day to day as a great way to get energizing protein into my day without feeling too heavy. Usually I drink it in the early or mid afternoons. And lately for the protein, I’ve been using the most pure, delicious vanilla chai plant-based protein blend that I want to share with you by Anima Mundi. This protein is made from pumpkin seeds, brown rice, sacha inchi, and pea, and it contains adaptogens like astralagus, ashwagandha, and aluthero, which all have been known to help support recovery, enhance performance, and help the body adapt to everyday stress. It also has digestion-boosting warming ingredients. You know we love that, like cardamom, cinnamon, and ginger. This protein tastes delicious and there’s a subtle sweetness to it which comes from the vanilla and the monk fruit. It’s a way to deeply nourish your cells with amino acids, complete plant-based protein. To get this delicious plant-based blend, please go to anemamundiherbals.com and use code Kim20 to get 20 % off your purchase. Again, we’re talking about the amazing vanilla chai protein powder. That’s anemomundierbals.com code Kim20, A-N-I-M-A-M-U-N-D-I-H-E-R-B-A-L-S.com code Kim20 to get 20 % off your purchase. In a world that is constantly promoting health fads and quick fixes, we can never get past the importance of the basics, such as creating optimal digestion, eating whole foods, and hydration. Yes, hydration. When we are optimally hydrated, our skin glows and is nourished, and it greatly helps us avoid headaches, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. Besides water, we need electrolytes, which need to be replenished like probiotics. Every morning in my room temperature water that I drink first thing, Speaker 1 (15:27.99)I add a packet of Element electrolytes, usually the watermelon or raspberry flavors, which contain a science-backed mix of magnesium, potassium, and sodium. Element contains no sugar or artificial colors or fillers. I highly recommend that you also incorporate electrolytes into your routine as well to optimize your hydration, which your body, mind, and heart will greatly benefit from. And for now, our amazing community listeners, We’ll get a free sample pack with any element drink mix at www.drinkelement.com slash feel good. That’s eight single serving packets for free with any element drink mix purchase. Please go to www.drinkelement.com slash feel good. That’s www.drinklmnt.com slash feel good. Also check out the new element sparkling, which is a sparkly, fizzy electrolyte water if you love fizzy drinks. Speaker 1 (16:34.958)I’ll just tell you a fear as a parent hearing this is, again, he gets so much attention. Again, everybody says it, right? I pay so much attention to E. So I guess my fear is if he’s still wanting more, what if when he grows up, he gets into unhealthy relationships or he just always has to be in a relationship because of that. I want to reframe, like, you’re looking at intimate relationships. I see most often with our high connection seekers, they often actually seek it out even much outside of intimate relationships in friendships and in other spaces where, like, they might be the human who corrals kids to, like, all get together and play a game or they can often be, like, leaders in a pack where they… are so many outlets for connection that it’s not just an intimate one-to-one relationship. There are so many avenues for it. And as they continue to grow, they’ll find places to connect in different ways to make that happen. And we can support them along the way. But these are humans who it’s a superpower and we need them in this world. My daughter is like this. She is a high connection seeker. She walks into a room of 100 people she doesn’t know. And she’s like, my God, yes, 100 new friends. She’s 20 months. And she’s four? my gosh. and do you think that correlates with being an extrovert? Yeah, a lot of way. Speaker 2 (18:00.494)A lot of our high connection seeking kiddos are also extroverted. You a little bit have to be because it’s going to fill that cup, right? That like when you’re in that, although I just had a kid pop into my head who I when I was teaching and he was five years old and he had high connection needs, but he was an introvert and he would seek out more one to one like peer connection connection for me as a teacher. But he would look forward in those kind of smaller groups. activities and avenues, but he would glom on to like other kids and just want to be near them and want to talk to them and want to share and yada yada. But it was like he had one or two good friends in each space. He wasn’t like, I want to hang out with everyone in the class. Well, so there’s natural extroverts, introverts, connectors, like you said. How do you think this relates to, and you know, this is sort of on a spiritual level and in yogic traditions, you talk about the true self and self connection, which is self-effulgence and fulfilling and being so connected to the love inside that you wanna share it with people, but you’re not needing it. Yeah, I think that we’re, I’m going to pull in the like neuroscience and too. When we’re looking at this, I want to recognize that there’s not a human on the planet where there’s a one size fits all. Right? all of us, our nervous systems operate differently in the way that we integrate stimuli, the way that we integrate the world around us and make sense of it is different for all of us. And for some kids, they are their superpowers. I can noticing the details. or they know if something moves in their environment. They can get really dysregulated by like piles or clutter or things like that because they’re super attuned to the visual stimuli in their space. Some humans who sound, they’re really aware of the sounds in their environment and they can get really overstimulated by sound, especially if there’s competing sounds happening. Some kids who notice the details of how clothing feels in a heightened way. It’s too itchy, it’s too tight, it’s too something. Speaker 2 (20:02.378)And I look at these as superpowers, that they’re really good at noticing, they’re very attuned to those senses. And there are some humans who aren’t as attuned, and for them, can, it then appears as though they can maybe be more easygoing or they can move through the world differently, because their brain isn’t so hyper-focused on like, my gosh, what is that noise? I can’t stop hearing that clicking sound in the background and kind of tuning into those things in different ways. And so when we’re looking at the integration of all of that stimuli. We go through the nine senses in the book and outline it. But I think it’s really important in then saying like how you integrate them then determines how you show up in the world and what you need from the world around you based on how your nervous system is integrating that stimuli, because it’s going to find kind of homeostasis and regulation in different ways based on your unique nervous system. Does that make sense? It does to me. It sounds a little complicated to explain to a child. for sure. I’m going to break it down in different words to Yeah, to a kid. we this so the bulk of the work that we do at Seed is in school systems. I work in schools, elementary, middle schools, and then in childcare programs. And we teach teachers like how to talk to kids about this. How do you teach them about their nervous system? Totally. Well, there’s this idea of self-regulation even is something I think we need to really break down that and self-regulation. Speaker 2 (21:32.404)You teach self-regulation through co-regulation and self-regulation isn’t one size fits all. Wait, so say that again for a moment. mean co-regulation, you regulate yourself and then you’re in the space and then… You know, it’s like goosebumps. It’s almost like the science of heart coherence. Well, our hearts are giving off a magnetic field that’s 100 times stronger than the brain. So when we’re more emotionally calm, you talk about emotional intelligence and the more coherent, our heart rhythms are smooth and our… borrowing your comms. Speaker 2 (21:52.108)Not anymore. Speaker 1 (22:06.306)Brains are nervous, everything’s in sync. People around you feel that. Totally. So as we calm ourselves, we can calm our children more. That’s right. I think of it like the difference between a thermometer and a thermostat. A thermometer is just going to read the temperature of the room, you’re going to join it. A thermostat sets that temperature. And in order to set that temperature, you have to be mindful of your own regulation. So often we want kids to regulate for us. We want them to get calm for us when we can’t. Right. Yeah, I see parents who are literally screaming in public. Yeah. And they’re like, you calm down. We’re at the playground and I heard this, this mom didn’t know we were there. We were in the bathroom and she was like talking to her two girls and then me and my younger son came out and she was like embarrassed. I mean, I felt bad for her because obviously she didn’t want, no one wants to be that person. Nobody wants to be in that state where their body feels so out of control that you’re like, need the humans around me to change their behavior so I can feel in control. And so so much, that’s why I said so many folks, they come for the kids, but stay for themselves that we dive into what is, how does your nervous system work? What does it look like to learn how to build your own self-awareness and self-regulation so that we can then navigate co-regulation with our kids so that Speaker 2 (23:28.098)when our kid comes in and they roll their eyes and they slam the door and they give a sass or the sarcasm or whatever, that we can be the calm force in that moment. And it doesn’t mean I don’t hold boundaries. It doesn’t mean that any behavior is allowed. It does mean that I am really working on, okay, how do I calm my body so that I can respond with intention instead of react from a place of dysregulation. So let’s play this out for any mamas out there who have teenagers or getting close to teenagers, not there yet. But although I’ve seen some behavior from my nine-year-old defiance and disrespect, which you talk about in the book. Let’s say your teenager comes home and you say, or, hey, I’ll be the teenager. Well, it seems like something happened at school today. I’m fine. Yeah, I am here if you want to chat. Would you like space or do you want to talk about? Speaker 1 (24:30.862)Why are you so annoying? Why are you always trying to say that to me? I love you so much. I’m going to be cooking in the kitchen. If you want to come touch base, that’s where I’ll be That’s not a fun. Okay. Let’s do another one. Yeah. I mean, so it’s a center. You’re the center and you’re not trying to grab. Okay. I love it. I’m not taking the bait. Right? Like the bait is all, that would be me joining their energy. And I’m saying like, I’ve got you. I’m still calm in your storm. Okay, let’s do this one, which I have experienced where my son will call me by my first name and I don’t like it. Sure. Okay, so I’ll be the teenager tween, okay? Yeah. Comes home from school. Hey, Alyssa. Speaker 2 (25:15.544)Hey, did you want my attention? I heard you use my first name. Alisha? Yeah, it does sound like you want my attention. I’m here if you want to chat or hang. Lyssa, Lyssa! Yeah, come

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How This Proven Method Can Help You Achieve Your New Year Goals with Joanna Grover [Episode #959]

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More like this

Ep. 1023 | Optimizing your Preconception Health & Fertility with Dr Ann Shippy

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Getting to the Root of Food and Other Addictions with Dr. Jason Giles [EP. #1015]

Handling Anxiety & Conflict in Kids (and Humans!) with Connection with NYT Bestselling Author Alyssa Blask Campbell [Episode 1013]

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