The Benefits of Good Stress Jeff Krasno [Ep. 967]

This Week’s Episode:

In this engaging conversation, Kimberly and Jeff Krasnow explore the themes of stress, resilience, and the balance between humor and seriousness in the wellness space. Jeff discusses his new book, ‘Good Stress,’ which emphasizes the health benefits of facing challenges and the importance of intentional stressors in fostering resilience. They delve into the intersection of science and mysticism, the transformative power of crisis, and the significance of emotional regulation in navigating life’s challenges. The discussion also highlights practical tools like fasting and ice plunging as methods for self-discovery and managing stress responses. In this conversation, Kimberly Snyder discusses the importance of creating a safe emotional environment for difficult conversations, emphasizing the need for emotional regulation and active listening. She shares her experiences of engaging in challenging dialogues and how these interactions helped her build psychological resilience.

About Jeff Krasno

Jeff Krasno is the CEO and founder of Commune Media, a masterclass platform for well-being featuring the world’s most renowned authors and teachers. As the face of the platform, Jeff hosts the Commune podcast, which features over 520 episodes and currently generates over 750,000 monthly downloads, where he has interviewed a wide variety of luminaries from Deepak Chopra to Marianne Williamson to Matthew McConaughey. In addition, Jeff pens a weekly “Commusing” essay exploring well-being, spirituality, and culture that is distributed to an email list of over one million people.

The Commune brand comes to life on a 10-acre retreat center and production facility in Topanga, California, where Jeff hosts immersive events, book launches, and masterminds—including regular retreats where he lectures and leads participants through the protocols of Good Stress.

A prolific cultivator of community, Jeff is also the co-creator of Wanderlust, a global series of wellness events that have been integral to popularizing the practice and principles of yoga in the U.S. and beyond. In 2016, he was selected by Oprah Winfrey to be part of the SuperSoul100 as one of the nation’s leading entrepreneurs.

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Guest Resources

Book: Good Stress: The Health Benefits of Doing Hard Things

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jeff Krasnow and His New Book
03:13 The Balance of Humor and Seriousness in Wellness
06:00 Exploring the Intersection of Science and Mysticism
08:57 The Transformative Power of Stress and Crisis
12:08 Finding Stillness Amidst Chaos
14:57 Understanding Stress and Homeostasis
17:48 The Role of Intentional Stressors in Resilience
20:50 Navigating Difficult Conversations for Growth
24:10 Emotional Regulation and Its Importance
27:00 Fasting and Ice Plunging as Tools for Self-Discovery
30:45 Creating a Safe Space for Conversations
39:17 Building Psychological Resilience Through Dialogue
51:31 Finding Connection in Difficult Conversations
55:50 Embracing Life’s True Ease and Mortality

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Recipes For Your Perfectly Imperfect Life
You Are More Than You Think You Are

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Transcript:

Kimberly Snyder (00:00.142)
Hi everyone and welcome back to our Monday interview show I am so excited to share this conversation with you to be in conversation with my very dear friend Jeff Krasnow who has been on here at least twice before I mean it seems like I live here well welcome back seems like I’m in your guest room asking for bananas One thing we don’t have a shortage of. so I would love to share that Jeff has a wonderful book out this week called Good Stress, the health benefits of doing hard things, which we’ll get into today. Ten protocols to extend your lifespan and your health span. I have known Jeff for I think at least a decade. I’ve known his wife, Skylar, more.

Jeff has also founded this incredible community media company. I’ve promoted my Beauty Inside Out course on there. There are many courses. Jeff also co-founded Wanderlust with his wife Skylar. They are creators. They’re amazing parents. They have three daughters. So there you are on paper, friend. Congrats on the new book. I like me on paper. I spread well on paper, like a nut butter.

Well, one of the things that comes across is, of course, your authenticity and your humor. Sometimes, you know, we were just talking about the book library over here. get both of us get sent a lot of books as well. Some of the books are a little bit challenging to get through. So what I really appreciate about the new book is, of course, the wonderful information, but also the stories, the writing.

Did you enjoy reading this? Because it feels like you did. I did enjoy writing the more self-deprecatory dad-jokey part of it. Because our world, our wellness space, can often be a Vesuvius of sanctimony from time to time. And for good reason, because health can be quite serious. Trauma is a serious…

Kimberly Snyder (02:17.006)
that should be taken seriously. At the same time, sometimes we have to have a little bit of levity with it and you take the medicine with a tiny bit of sugar. Well, it’s very spiritual, right? When we buy into the delusions or Eastern spirituality at least, when we buy in so much to things being just so or everything like this is the end, I’ll be all. We can…

by as well into the ego and the thoughts. You and I have always connected on the Dow. Sort of this limitlessness and then the spaciousness. And so part of that is, when you get into the center, there is more lightness. There can be more humor. There can be a lot less taking things, including ourselves, way less seriously. Yeah. Well, and I also have zero letters at the end of my name. So sometimes I pretend, but I cannot contend to be a doctor.

So I opt for the comical a little bit over the clinical. And at the same time, I am very interested in kind of rigorous empirical study of human physiology, but I also see a bridge between medicine and mysticism. And I’d like to play on that bridge. Sometimes it feels like our culture.

can overvalue just if you have the letters after your name and we’ve sort of given this sort of hierarchy pedestal to a lot of these doctors. And there is wisdom that many bring forth, but to your point, there’s also, let’s not discredit our own personal intuition, the experiential ness in which we have to shepherd our own wellbeing. And also, like you said, the mysticism and these amazing great ones that came forward, whether it’s Yogananda.

or totally, there’s so much, it’s not just, you know, and Dr. David Hawkins talked about this quite a bit as well, and he was a medical doctor, and he was also a psychiatrist. And he said, you know, when we overvalue science and the rational, we have to realize that so much of that is created by the limited human mind. So he was a mystic as well as a scientist, as Albert Einstein was in others. So we don’t wanna get, the point is rather that,

Kimberly Snyder (04:36.246)
There’s validity to the science. And I think there’s great metaphysical truth to be found in studying the physical. Yeah. Because that is often where the great foundational intelligence of the cosmos is patterned. Well, and all the heart work, right? We know the heart is an epicenter, it’s a gateway, and yet we can also measure the heart field, can measure heart coherence. Yeah. And I mean, without the luxury of

an electron microscope or even germ theory. You know, the Buddha had many, many intuitions, many revelations around the nature of reality. But those Satori are highly applicable to human physiology. And that’s where I actually like to spend a lot of my time is finding, you know, obviously the Bodhi tree gave a certain amount of inspiration to the Buddha.

in which he found like the nature of impermanence, for example, right? Yes. Or the nature of mutual interdependence or of Madhyamaka, the middle way. And these are all axioms and tenets that can be faithfully applied to the human body, the human body. It’s very, very impermanent. It’s fascinating when, you for me to study it empirically and see, you know, the construction and deconstruction of molecules, et cetera.

I also find it fascinating to see the body kind of in the context of Indra’s net, you know, that’s sort of the image for mutual interconnection that the Buddha had that, you know, the universe is this endless cobweb. And at every juncture of that cobweb is this crystalline diamond that reflects every other juncture. And this gave birth to this notion of pratitya summa pata or dependent origination. Essentially, I am.

because we are, that you cannot separate the function and behavior of your own organism from the function and behavior of the environment. And so I started calling myself an environmentism or an organment, you know, because we are one in the same thing, but that really violates our sense of identity often because I feel like a stable, reliable Jeff crouching somewhere here behind my eyes like a tiger.

Kimberly Snyder (06:59.112)
separate from the world, distinct and disjointed from it. This is my identity, Jeff. I called it something separate. And you know, I get up and there’s good reason to feel that way because I get up in the mirror. I get up in the morning, I look in the mirror and sort of give a little flex. And there I am. It’s Jeff. There’s a physical continuity that underwrites my anchoring of my identity. I’m the same guy I was yesterday. But when you actually open up the door and you take a look in,

I’m changing all the time. I am nothing but change. Isn’t that amazing? Yeah, I’m more or less, last time I counted, seven octillion atoms experiencing 37 billion billion, that’s not a typo, billion billion chemical reactions per second. I’m not the same dude that sat down here 10 minutes ago. So when John says, you can’t change, you’re like, I’m nothing but change. Isn’t that amazing? Yeah.

Well, it’s interesting because you told me about this book a while ago. And then I was like, oh, interesting. He’s talking about stressors and you you and I talk and you also write a lot of essays around comfort zones. And then recently having gone through in very close proximity and connection to the fires in LA and you know, we were very lucky to still have a home.

and so many of our community members really experienced such devastating loss, which has felt so much in our community, in our direct community with our friends. I will say, you one of the things that has been replaying a lot in my mind was that John, my husband, grabbed our kids in the smoke and shortly after the school burned down, right? There was just these moments and then, you know, we were evacuated for a while and my walk is burned, you know, again.

I know I’m one of the very lucky ones. But there was a lot of stress and challenge in those weeks. We were watching the fire maps, the fire got so close. There was just so many things. Everything got turned upside down. And there was moments of surrender, like, okay, we might possibly lose our home, we lose our area. So was stressors. And I can say in this aftermath, and I was talking with you and Skylar upstairs, there’s a lot of stillness.

Kimberly Snyder (09:23.482)
there’s a, there’s something transformed, know, fires bring death and rebirth and something really, shifted and I can’t quite put it into words, but there was this fr like this stress. then on the other side, there’s a remolding and part of that stillness. Yeah. mean, we have certain practices, right? We can practice non-attachment. We can understand cognitively.

the concept of impermanence like we just discussed. But in a situation like that, which is so acute, this is where the spiritual rubber hits the hard, unforgiving asphalt of reality. And it tests your metal. Oh yeah, well it’s one thing to be practicing in a nice, peaceful ashram. It’s another thing.

to be able to leverage that same clarity, that same ability to emotionally regulate when the fire is on your doorstep, or that you have to get your head around surrendering to perhaps an inevitable fate in which your home becomes ash. And.

You know, I evacuated twice and I think I spent one night on the hard cold floor of like one of my daughter’s friend’s houses. Yeah. I’m staring up at the ceiling and I’m thinking to myself like, who am I without all this stuff? Without my home and my clothes and my dop kit, piano, my photo books. schedule like.

I’ll lay here and I come back here and this is we eat dinner. And right. And, you know, yes, we are the lucky ones. And there is a bit of a dollop of survivor’s guilt, candidly, because I have lots of friends at S.D.U. that aren’t as fortunate as we are. But there was a kind of sense of stillness that emerged on the other side. It’s very, very hard to put your thumb on it. Oh.

Kimberly Snyder (11:39.21)
But it’s just a feeling. And that, okay, you know, we, our identities are often circumscribed by all these things. You know, I have this retreat center and I was very much surrendered to that place meeting its unfortunate fate. And it wasn’t really that much the place itself or the physical nature of the place.

It was that I forged so many profound relationships there. And that’s what I started to reflect on. I was like, yeah, like I spent plenty of time with you there. Wim Hof got me in the cold plunge there for the first time. As did I, I was there that day. I was like, man. And there’s Gabor Mate in his underwear, like puttering about or whatever.

Mark Hyman explaining the exposome to me or whatever. I’ve had these transformational experiences there. And this was the trickiest part, was sort of letting go to that container, that container for connection. Yeah. But then the connection, can be there without the… That’s right. For me, it was…

similarly to you, who am I? And it was, what are the things that really can’t be taken away? Like what’s in our hearts? Love? Just being present to whatever is. And so it’s interesting we’re having this conversation about not, or just ways in which we can so easily fall into that sort of comforting, know, it feels comforting, comfortable, just sort of.

You know, not that we would choose the fire, but some of the practices you talk about in the book, having these challenging conversations, for instance, facing things. There’s massive growth on the other side of stress or crisis, you know, provided that you have the tools, both physical and emotional tools, to be able to manage and metabolize that stress. mean, so much of health and well-being is the

Kimberly Snyder (14:01.834)
ability to move back to center, to bounce back. I mean, certainly that’s true psychologically. So we get, you know, taken off our mark and then do we have the ability to come back to equilibrium, to find our center? And physiologically, that’s generally called homeostasis. So, you know, the body has myriad adaptive mechanisms.

for fostering homeostasis. Like we have this nice little pH balance and deliver a titrate, glucose, just so. And you know, we always looking for the little warm porridge of 98.6 from a thermoregulation perspective. you you test the body, you get it nice and cold, what does it do? It thermoregulates, it heats itself back up, uses fat or carbohydrates and makes a little energy in the mitochondria to go back up to the Goldilocks zone. And you shiver, you know?

Or you get too hot and what do you do? You perspire, right? And your body thermoregulates, et cetera. you know, stress really can be an opportunity. And of course we have a very negative association with stress in our current day because modern stress is generally chronic. It’s like the, go hiking out here probably, you go on your daily walk, maybe from time to-

radically changed now with the fires, but yes. Defined a new path. But maybe from time to time, I know in my neighborhood when I walk, know, every blue moon I’ll run into a rattlesnake. yeah, I see rattlesnakes all the time. And you might be quite, some people listening to me like, bloody hell, you’re seeing rattlesnakes all the time. you you have a very adaptive response to that stress. You you see one, my God. You move away.

you know, your heart rate and your respiratory rate increase for a moment, right? Your pupils dilate, you know, blood rushes to your extremities for the purposes of fighting or fleeing. But you also become very self-obsessed. The aperture of your attention becomes very, very narrow. You don’t trust the world around you. That’s totally adaptive because it serves your biological imperative to survive. But then, you know, you look at the rattlesnake and he looks back at you and he’s like, no, Kim.

Kimberly Snyder (16:21.272)
Kimberly will not be on the specials menu today. Like I’m slithering off for a more sumptuous rituals like in the tall grasses, there he goes. What does he do? Your body then moves back to homeostasis. Your breath rate goes down, your heart rate goes down. You open back up to the world around you. You start to trust things again, right? The problem in modern society is that the rattlesnake never leaves the path for so many people.

So they’re constantly in that tense environment. And yes, there’s all these negative physiological impacts related to that, know, immune system suppression, dysbiosis in the gut, elevated blood sugar levels, all very important. But think about the other things. You become self-obsessed and you don’t trust the world. Well, isn’t that how- And that’s where we are. It felt like, or it feels like that’s how-

our culture is built around all the fear on media, social media. So you’re saying there’s this sort of chronic fear, but then how does that relate to your concept in the book of actually placing in your lifestyle these intentional stressors? Right. So that is the great irony, of course, is that if you self-impose the right dosage of stress, it actually enhances your ability to move back to the center.

So yes, that’s true for like an ice plunge or a sauna, right? The more that you push the edges of your discomfort, the better your body gets at fostering homeostasis and moving back to the warm porridge. I keep using that Goldilocks example. It’s like, don’t eat warm porridge at all. But you get what I mean. But of course, psychologically, we want to move back to a place of

I would say ventral vagal activation. That’s kind of a big fancy term, it’s sort of a Stephen Porges, polyvagal theory term. But really we want to move out of our sympathetic nervous system and back into a parasympathetic place that’s also engaged in alert where we can use our prefrontal cortex and our brilliant neomammalian brain to have like this wonderful, rational, reasonable conversation and move ourselves back to that place.

Kimberly Snyder (18:48.404)
And the more, I mean, really the opportunity, like for meditation, for example.

Any meditator will tell you that you don’t just sit there like the Buddha and have no thoughts. It’s not the cessation of thinking. It’s that when thoughts appear, you recognize them as phenomenon appearing in consciousness in that moment. And you don’t judge it. You wave at it. You say, hello, Yeah, you don’t try to resist it, that’s the worst. And there it goes, you know, out the window and you just wave at it. Bye bye. And you move back.

to your single point of focus, your breath, drishti or kasina or mantra. Your heart. Your heart. You move back to that place and that’s the great opportunity with meditation. It’s not in the cessation of thoughts, it’s in the moving back. Mm-hmm. To focus. Into that center. Yeah, into that center. And the more that you train yourself to do that,

the more it begins to punctuate the rest of your life off of a cushion, know, such that, you know, your horrible, adorable children, not yours, but like mine, let’s say, they’ll annoy me, you know? We were just with the little monkeys upstairs. Yeah, your children are angels. They’re never annoying. All these crazy boys. Yeah. But such that, you know, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to something aggravating, no.

that ability to move back to center, to find and cultivate that space between stimulus and response, right? There’s that choice, and that choice lies our freedom, right? Wait, so could we say that if we follow, and maybe not all 10, but we choose some of the protocols in the book and we start to incorporate them into this out of our comfort zone, we realize we really are a lot more resilient than we realized.

Kimberly Snyder (20:50.304)
And so in daily life, we’re not so much in that rattlesnake all the time. Is it more that we’re in that more regulation in the nervous system that we stress ourselves and then we come back? Yeah. Would you say that’s true? I that’s totally true because it’s almost not the, I mean, Victor Franco has that famous quote, right? You know, between stimulation, response, there is a space in that space is our choice and that choice lies our liberation and our freedom. It’s actually.

That’s wonderful quote. not trying to dis-francal on your show. But it’s actually more that we have a bottom-up involuntary responses to stimulus, right? You someone says like, hey, Kimberly, you’re a total wench, you know, whatever. And then you can be like, huh, like, I don’t like that, you know? But instead of like, but then it’s after the involuntary reaction.

is that’s where you have the space and the choice, really. And you can say, you instead of like launching some vitriolic bar back at that person, you say, mm-hmm, ah, okay, you know, what was the origin of that person’s behavior? And do I even wanna engage with it? You know? Is it even about me? Yeah. Probably not. Probably not. And then, mm, do I want to actually disengage completely?

and move back and move away and create that space? Or do I actually wanna move in? This is a great sort of analogy from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is all about managing space. It’s like the place I can really hurt you the most is about where I’m sitting right now, because I can leverage all my weight. And I never do this, so don’t get nervous. I’d leverage all my weight to like pop you right in the kisser, you know? I’d likely more kiss you than pop you in the kisser.

That would get me in trouble though. Yeah, John does jujitsu. Yeah, I know. You’ll have to excerpt this just for him. But the way that essentially we can protect ourselves is to create space. So it’d be like, I’m going to move away. And I can’t hit you because you’re too far away. That’s disengaging. the other way though is you can move in. Give me like a nice bear hug. Not that that’s what I’m going for, but.

Kimberly Snyder (23:16.224)
if you chose to do that, and what would I be able to do? I’d be able to tap you on the back. I can’t hit you because I can’t leverage. And this is a analogy for how we can approach relationships. know, sometimes someone might betray you or insult you or neglect you, et cetera, and you’re hurt and you can move away and disengage as a means of protecting yourself. But the other way is actually to move in.

and actually confront that stress by leaning in and having, you what I call stressful conversations. Like into the ice bath of a hard, thorny conversation. Well, I love that your protocols aren’t just, you know, physical, but there’s this emotional well-being, which of course can influence so much of our inflammation and our hormonal states.

So would you say someone like me, for example, we’ve talked about this, where part of my work, I do have to be in groups. I tend to be more of a, just like a lot of alone time, I would say I’m more of an introvert. But there’s, okay, I say to myself, okay, it’s really good for me to go to this dinner. It’s really good for me to go to this event. And sometimes it is, right? It generally is. I mean, I think when we push ourselves out of our comfort zone, even if it’s just as simple as like the comfort zone of

like spending a night at home in our living room. And we go out and we’re like, I don’t wanna do this, that dinner, with those guys. All the driving. and all the driving. But almost every time we come back, we’re like, I’m so glad I pushed myself and we did that, because I had that beautiful connection, right? Yeah. And I mean, this is a very banal.

example of how just pushing yourself slightly out of your comfort zone yields generally very, very good results. But I think, you know, oftentimes with people that we really have an issue with, you know, and that could be just a stranger, but even more importantly, like a family member, a relative, right? Where we will choose to avoid.

Kimberly Snyder (25:34.602)
a hard conversation because it just feels too awkward, right? We just don’t do it. But the possibility that lies on the other side of these stressful conversations is just life-changing. Really, it is oftentimes these stressful, hard conversations that separate our human condition from the world that our hearts know and imagine is possible.

and it’s to push through that discomfort. And there’s actual real techniques for being able to do that. like a lot of people listening to this may say, well, that sounds great, but I can’t imagine actually confronting this person and they fear. So how do you address that? Sure. Well, you have to do a lot of self work first because you need to be emotionally regulated yourself.

to move into one of those difficult thorny conversations. Right. If you’re in a, if you’re a dysregulated state, that’s not the time to broach the subject. No way. So you have to bone up on all of your different practices. That could be breath work. It could be meditation, but it also could be physiological practices. I mean, I found that fasting and cold water therapy, the most potent benefits of those things were actually emotional and not physical. How often do you fast?

Well, I do just like the 16, eight thing every day. Okay, every day you’re doing that? Yeah. Okay. And that’s not very stressful for me anymore. But when I first started, it was difficult. even now, just because I consolidate my food and my consumption of food in an eight hour window, doesn’t mean I don’t like have a hankering for a Snickers at 9 p.m.

I’m not really a snickers, but you know what mean? It doesn’t mean that I don’t get hungry outside of the window. There’s a stressor that you’re feeling. But because I’ve become a disciple to that practice, I have to witness the nature of the hunger and not just mindlessly wander up to your cupboard and grab a protein bar. I can’t do that because I’m a disciple to this practice. And so I have to witness the nature of the stimulus, the hunger in this case.

Kimberly Snyder (27:53.678)
And instead of just having a reactive response, like I’m gonna go raid Kim’s fridge again. What time do you start

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The Benefits of Good Stress Jeff Krasno [Ep. 967]

This Week’s Episode:

About Jeff Krasno

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Transcript:

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Creating Plant-based and Other Lifestyle Shifts Worldwide with Ghanim Al Sulaiti [Episode #994]

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