This week’s topic: How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Gregor
I am so excited to have the amazing Dr. Michael Greger on our show today. He has created yet another amazing book called How Not to Age, the Scientific Approach to Getting Healthier as You Get Older. And I have to say that this is one of my favorite nutrition books in quite a while. I do read quite a lot of books and there is so much great information. Listen in as Dr. Michael Greger shares…..
Topics Covered
Chapters
03:04 The Power of Nutrition for Aging
06:11 The Benefits of Green Smoothies
09:03 Cooking Oils and Fertility
12:00 Debunking Myths about High Protein Diets
13:54 The Importance of Protein Quality
22:55 Addressing Concerns about Anti-Nutrients
27:01 The Dangers of High Fat Diets
29:01 Promoting Healthy Eating in Schools
29:56 Plant-based diets for children
30:51 The focus should be on avoiding nutrient excess
32:17 The power of fruits and vegetables for longevity
33:36 The importance of legumes, nuts, and whole grains
35:15 Epigenetics and the body’s ability to reverse aging
37:48 The role of diet and lifestyle in epigenetics
39:09 The benefits of a plant-based diet for longevity
41:15 The truth about coffee and its effects on health
44:14 The truth about soy consumption
45:15 The impact of diet on skin health
48:00 The myth of bone broth and collagen
50:14 Reducing meat portion sizes
51:08 The truth about sugar and fruit consumption
53:04 Dr. Greger’s work and where to find more information
About Dr. Michael Greger
A founding member and Fellow of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Michael Greger, M.D., is a physician and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition. His science-based nonprofit, NutritionFacts.org, offers a free online portal hosting more than 2,000 videos and articles on myriad health topics. Dr. Greger is a sought-after lecturer and has presented at the Conference on World Affairs and the World Bank, testified before Congress, and was invited as an expert witness in Oprah Winfrey’s defense in the infamous “meat defamation” trial. A graduate of Cornell University School of Agriculture and Tufts University School of Medicine. Dr. Greger is also an acclaimed author. How Not to Die, The How Not to Die Cookbook, How Not to Diet, and How Not to Age became instant New York Times Best Sellers. More than a million copies of How Not to Die have been sold. All proceeds Dr. Greger receives from the sales of his books and speaking honoraria are donated directly to charity.
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Dr. Michael Greger Websites:
Dr. Michael Greger’s Book
How Not to Age: The Scientific Approach to Getting Healthier as You Get Older
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How Bodywork Is Part of The New Focus For Healthy Aging Skin Care [Episode #714]
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Transcript:
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Kimberly Snyder (00:00.996)
Hi loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited to have the amazing Dr. Michael Greger on our show today. He has created yet another amazing book. This one is called How Not to Age, the scientific approach to getting healthier as you get older. And I have to say that this is one of my favorite nutrition books of the last while and I do read quite a lot of books. This book is incredible and I’m very excited to get into it today with Dr. Michael, who is a physician. He’s a New York Times bestselling author. He’s a graduate of Cornell. He’s an internationally recognized speaker on nutrition. So Dr. Michael, thank you so much for being here with us today. After reading your book, I feel like I could speak to you for weeks and still have more questions.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (00:54.24)
Let’s do it! I hope to help inspire some of your viewers to live longer, better lives.
Kimberly Snyder (00:57.508)
I love it. And so just a reminder, we are now on video as well. Dr. Michael and I are here. You can watch us on our YouTube channel. You can continue to listen if you’re a long -term listener and you like to listen while you’re walking your dog or driving. We’re still going to be on Apple, Spotify. We will link to the show notes where you’ll learn more about Dr. Michael’s book and his work over at mysolluuna.com as well as other articles, podcasts, recipes I think you would enjoy. All right. Let’s get right into it, Dr. Michael. Thank you again for taking some time and congratulations on putting together. Let me see here. What is it? 800 pages? Oh, no, 500 pages of this incredibly dense, readable, but I will say fascinating book.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (01:48.416)
I’m so glad you enjoyed it. My aim was really to provide really the most comprehensive anti-aging book ever written covering every possible strategy for slowing down the aging process for the longest, healthiest life based on the best available balance of evidence. And the good news is we have tremendous power over our health, destiny, and longevity, and that the vast majority of premature death and disability is preventable with a healthy enough diet and lifestyle.
Kimberly Snyder (02:16.868)
Wow. And I will say, even though this is quite a long book, the way that I consumed it was I kept it on my kitchen counter. And when I had moments like drinking a cup of tea or there was a little bit of space before picking up my child from school, I would read a section where there was about inflammation or, you know, you have a section on skin, a section on hearing. So,
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (02:34.83)
I love it.
Kimberly Snyder (02:40.452)
It’s a wonderful guide. I recommend keeping this in your living room or somewhere where you could read it section by section because people say, oh, I’m busy. I don’t have time to read. And I say, when you have a book and you start to read it and there’s all these aha moments, you start to just work it in in sections. And so that’s how I would recommend consuming this wonderful book.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (03:04.142)
Yeah, that’s what I intended to do. And so look, regardless of what you’re interested in— I talk about preserving your bones, bowels, bladder, and circulation, hair, hearing, and hormone balance, immune function, joint health, mind, and your muscles, sex life, and skin, teeth, vision— on down the list. And so it’s like, well, if I just care— let’s assume you care about some of the more kind of superficial attributes.
Or if you care about the whole section on blocking some of the aging pathways to actually slow the aging process and decrease the risk of age -related disease. If you’re interested in what do the longest, healthiest populations around the world eat, I wanted to basically cover the entire field. And so, for anyone who’s interested in anything, I want it to be the reference book on aging.
Kimberly Snyder (03:53.924)
That’s right, doctor. And also we’d say, you know, a lot of us care about having beautiful glowing skin. But as we talk about, you talk about in the book, the skin is the largest organ. The skin can reveal a lot of imbalances in the body or deficiencies or our overall vitality or circulation. There’s a lot that goes on even if we are interested, the pathway, it may be wanting to look good. You can get a lot of data about your health as well from these organs, including the skin.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (04:21.358)
In fact, the skin used to be the largest organ in the human body, but it is no longer. Care to guess what is the largest organ now? Our fat stores, our adipose tissue, because of the obesity epidemic, actually our body fat forms a discrete organ, and it’s actually larger than the skin when you add it all up, unfortunately.
Kimberly Snyder (04:27.012)
We used to be.
Kimberly Snyder (04:36.132)
Oh.
Kimberly Snyder (04:40.228)
Oh. Oh my goodness.
Kimberly Snyder (04:50.084)
Oh my goodness. So there are so many topics. I wrote a list of questions. I want to flow. Let’s get right into it, doctor. I had to say though, as someone who has been plant -based now for over 15 years, our community is largely plant -based. Our community has also been drinking the glowing green smoothie for, which is my signature green smoothie. It’s one that I’ve made on Dr. Oz. Good morning America. I want to go straight to this.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (05:12.014)
Nice!
I love it, I love it, I love it, what’s in it, what’s in it?
Kimberly Snyder (05:18.084)
So it is 70 % greens, so a mix. I encourage people to mix and match the basis water and then 30 % high fiber fruit and lemons for that extra vitamin C. So there’s always pear and apple and then again, mix and match. But I wanna go right to this study, doctor that’s on page 95 here. And of course this was Dr. Joel Furman’s green smoothie who I love very much as well.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (05:24.462)
Nice.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (05:28.814)
Ugh, I love it. Bring it.
Kimberly Snyder (05:45.156)
But you said, drinking the green smoothie each day without making any other change to the usual diets on astounding 40 % reduction in CRP within one week, claimed to be the fastest diet induced reduction in CRP ever reported in medical literature. So got the green smoothie CRP, C -reactive protein, biomarker of inflammation. Tell us about this. The fruits and veggies.
reducing inflammation, why inflammation is so important for us to track.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (06:16.206)
And not just any fruits and vegetables, but as you noted, some of the healthiest fruits and vegetables on the planet, including dark green leafy vegetables, when with a green smoothie you can sneak them into breakfast and get greens three times a day. You know, aging can be thought of in part as an inflammatory process, a single blood test for inflammation like C -reactive.
Kimberly Snyder (06:27.3)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (06:42.094)
can predict physical and cognitive performance, as well as remaining lifespan in the elderly individuals. Thankfully, excess inflammation can be extinguished through changes in diet.
Those eating lower on the dietary inflammatory index and middle age more likely to age successfully, which is defined as living independently with no major disease, depression, or pain, and good overall self -perceived social, physical, and mental health. How do you do that? Well, we are avoiding pro -inflammatory food components, such as saturated fat,
which is concentrated in meat and dairy and processed junk. Endotoxins, NU5G, C, sodium. So I found a lot of processed foods. Salt is pro -inflammatory. So we’re minimizing meat, dairy, tropical oils, and salt, whereas going out of our way to eat anti -inflammatory foods such as beans, berries, greens, sodium -free tomato juice or tomato paste, oats, flax seeds, turmeric, ginger, garlic, cinnamon, cocoa powder, dill.
Kimberly Snyder (07:25.412)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (07:44.654)
And then in terms of beverages, green or chamomile teas are the most anti -inflammatory beverages. And then any other foods that are high in fiber, high in anthocyanin, those bright berry pigments, or something called salicylic acid, which is the anti -inflammatory component of aspirin, we just found in a number of foods, particularly spices like cumin.
Kimberly Snyder (08:04.068)
So a couple things in there, doctor. We’re going to go, we’re going to go back and forth. This is fascinating. When you say tropical oils, you mean the palm oils, but not coconut oil, which can be a great cooking.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (08:13.742)
Yes, coconut oil. There’s three tropical oils that increase your LDL cholesterol, your bad cholesterol. One is coconut oil, one is palm oil, one is palm oil. Coconut oil is great for your skin, for your hair, but not eaten because it can increase your LDL cholesterol, which is a primary risk factor for the number one cause of death of women, the number one cause of death of men, which is atherosclerotic heart disease.
Kimberly Snyder (08:22.5)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (08:30.02)
Interesting.
Kimberly Snyder (08:39.684)
Wow, I’ve been cooking with coconut oil and other things. So what would you recommend we cook for, for high temperature heat that doesn’t get rancid?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (08:41.71)
No, you’re killing me! You’re killing me!
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (08:48.942)
Well, I mean, look, you don’t need to cook with any kind of oil, right? You can saute in wine or broth or vinegar or water or anything. So, I mean, there’s no need. I mean, oil is just so high in caloric density, right? A tablespoon of oil, 120 calories. And so, God, for 120 calories, you could get literally cups of berries for that one little drizzle that you wouldn’t even fill up your stomach. So, yeah, I really would encourage people.
Kimberly Snyder (08:55.94)
Okay, so you’re more of the no oil camp. Got it.
Kimberly Snyder (09:03.204)
Yes. Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (09:10.212)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (09:14.372)
reducing the oil.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (09:14.83)
to reduce the amount of oil in their diet. And there are some toxic byproducts produced by the high temperature exposure of oils, as well as the deodorization process in some of these refined oils that are associated with poor health.
Kimberly Snyder (09:23.812)
Mm -hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (09:32.452)
And you go into great detail. You mentioned chamomile tea, which is soothing, it’s relaxing, but you did mention that it’s not something you would recommend for women in their third trimester.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (09:41.774)
Oh, yeah, it’s actually too anti -inflammatory. The way that a baby breathes in the womb is having oxygenated blood coming in from the mother through the umbilical cord, and then how does that pass into the body, since the lungs are kind of clogged up at that point, where there’s actually a portal. There’s actually a door open.
Kimberly Snyder (09:45.508)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (09:56.868)
Mm -hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (10:09.038)
for the fetus between the chambers of the heart so it can spread oxygenated blood throughout the body. That special channel is kept open with inflammatory compounds in the body, and then closes right on birth for that first breath. But if you are going out of your way to eat really anti -inflammatory foods during that third trimester, you can actually constrict that what’s called ductus—
Kimberly Snyder (10:20.772)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (10:38.798)
and actually go against your own body’s abilities. Same thing you see with people taking aspirin. That’s why women in third trimester, they shouldn’t be taking aspirin, ibuprofen, things like that. Well, foods, some foods can be so potently anti -inflammatory, have the same kind of effects. Largely a theoretical risk, but there are case reports of people…
Kimberly Snyder (10:51.204)
Yes.
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (10:58.486)
Wow. So we do have a holistic fertility pregnancy course coming out, doctor. We interviewed Dr. Neal Bernard, who I’m sure you’re friends with as well. I know this isn’t the exact focus of your work, but since you’re so, and we’ll get back on track here, but since you’re so well -researched, are there any particular foods?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (11:03.502)
going out of the way to eat lots of anti -inflammatory foods in the third trimester and running into problems. Oh great, he’s fantastic. Yeah, yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (11:28.356)
you would recommend for women in our community looking to conceive or to boost their fertility.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (11:30.542)
Yeah, really the most important thing is avoiding dairy consumption. So, dairy consumption is associated with accelerated ovarian aging. This is a series of Harvard studies I talk about. In terms of what may help, actually oral DHEA, which is a steroid hormone, the only one available over the counter called dehydroepiandrosterone.
Kimberly Snyder (11:39.044)
Mmm, thank you.
Woof.
Kimberly Snyder (11:59.556)
So through algae? Oh, D -H -E -A, sorry, not D -H -A. Okay. Wow, incredible. Okay, doctors. We have one of the number one things, and I know you get this as well, is confusion. So…
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (12:00.43)
which has been found to improve in vitro fertilization rates among women in the late 30s. I think it’s the only supplement that’s ever been shown. No, no, so oral DHEA is available. DHEA is a hormone which is available over the counter.
Kimberly Snyder (12:27.716)
I’m reading your book and it’s talking about advanced glycation products and the poisons, the dangers of eating bacon and high fat. Yet now we see across social media by not everyone who’s doing a lot of scientific research, but people who claim to have these carnivore diets, these really high protein diets, even diets where they’re demonizing dark leafy green vegetables.
There’s diets out there which are making us people scared to eat vegetables. Can you talk a little bit about some of these very high animal protein diets and that does to our longevity? Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (12:58.958)
Yeah, it’s amazing what you can find on the internet. You know, yeah, carnivore dieters are kind of the kind of flat earthers of the nutrition world, but you know, unlike all meat diets, you know, believing the earth is flat isn’t going to kill anyone, right? But like anti -vaxxers and climate change deniers, balking at the scientific consensus can sometimes be…
Kimberly Snyder (13:25.028)
Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (13:27.918)
harmful to your health. Whereas if you go, for example, to the Two Health Initiative, which is an organization started by the head of the Yale Prevention Research Center, brought together hundreds of the top nutrition researchers around the world to create kind of an IPCC of nutrition. You want to know about climate? Ask the climate scientists. You want to know about nutrition? Well, let’s ask the people who have dedicated their entire lives to studying research, to studying nutrition, and they got hundreds of them.
including the current pastures of nutrition at Harvard, to agree to a consensus statement as to what is the single healthiest diet for human beings. Spoiler alert! It’s a diet centered around whole plant foods, and people can go to truehealthinitiative .org and read that consensus statement. And so, anyone suggesting otherwise really isn’t keeping up with the science.
Kimberly Snyder (13:54.052)
And so there’s a spectrum, right? And then there’s people that say, well, I’m an omnivore and I eat plants.
but I need, you know, there’s this belief that’s so deeply ingrained in our culture. I need a lot of protein. And then there’s some people saying, oh, the quality of, you know, animal proteins, there’s things missing in a plant -based diet, whether it’s the iron or whatever. What would you say to those people, doctor? Mm -hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (14:22.926)
When it comes to protein and aging, less may be more. Reducing protein intake, meaning restricting protein intake down to recommended levels, is the only thing I could find.
that could help block all 11 of the aging pathways, so boosting NAD, improving immunity, decreasing oxidative stress, decreasing inflammation, insulin resistance, as well as the cancer -promoting growth hormone IGF -1. Surprisingly, there’s no benefit to adding extra protein to the diets of older men and women in terms of muscle mass, muscle strength, physical performance. Instead, the excess protein most Americans get causes a drop in the pro -longgevity hormone FGF -21, a drop in testosterone, a worsening of the age -accelerating hormone
I, excuse me, enzyme mTOR. So we should strive to the recommended level of 0 .8 grams per healthy kilogram of healthy body weight. It comes out to be about 45 grams a day for the average height woman, 55 grams a day for the average height man. And in terms of this concept of protein quality, it’s really only relevant in the context of protein deficiency. 97 % of Americans recede RDA for protein.
Kimberly Snyder (15:31.268)
Hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (15:48.846)
And the people that don’t are eating these very restrictive kind of weight loss diets and not eating enough across the board, really. But in a famine context, there’s this bloated belly syndrome called quashiorcor, which is combined protein, calorie, malnutrition, that kind of situation, where there’s just not enough protein. Well, getting protein that more closely resembles our own is preferable. So the quote -unquote highest quality protein is cannibalism. But beneath that,
Kimberly Snyder (16:01.124)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (16:17.774)
and any animal will do, but all plants are complete proteins, meaning that they have all the essential amino acids, but some of them are limiting if you’re not getting enough protein across the board. But outside of a famine context, the quality of protein should reflect the clinical effects, which in this case, if you talk about what it actually does to your body, plant protein sources are far superior, replacing just 3%.
of daily calories from animal protein to plant protein is associated with a 10 % decreased risk of premature death. In the largest study of diet and health in history, the NIH AARP study and the Harvard cohorts of plant protein beat out every single type of animal protein, including fish, chicken, and dairy, for decreasing mortality risk. So we should eat recommended amounts of protein, and those should preferably be plant protein sources.
Kimberly Snyder (16:50.18)
Mm. Mm. I don’t know where this myth came about. You mentioned testosterone.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:16.334)
No, so if you actually, if you randomize people to increase their protein intake, the testosterone drops. I mean, people just, I mean, it’s just, that’s what the science shows. Like, I mean, it’s just, people just don’t, yeah. I mean, you know, there’s so many kind of myths circulating around, but it’s,
Kimberly Snyder (17:19.364)
it’s been circulated, oh if I eat more meat then I’ll actually have higher levels of testosterone which is something that a lot of men are concerned about as they age. It’s there.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:46.19)
These people just are not looking at the actual studies upon which the scientific record is based. Well, I really encourage people to get all their macroderms
Kimberly Snyder (17:48.772)
So if someone’s traveling, if someone’s pregnant or they are an athlete trying to build more muscle, what do you think about adding a vegan protein shake to the diet or times where you’re not able to get as much from your diet, you’re not able to cook as much?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (18:15.63)
They’re fat, carbohydrates, and protein from whole food sources. And so, instead of getting fat from oil, why not get fat from avocados, and nuts, and seeds? Instead of getting carbohydrates from table sugar or white flour, oh my god, let’s get it from whole plant foods. Let’s get it from sweet potatoes.
Kimberly Snyder (18:18.948)
and
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (18:39.342)
And instead of getting protein from protein powders, which is the isolated protein, just like table sugar is the isolated carbohydrate, or oil is the isolated fat, why not get that whole entire kind of protein package, right? I mean, the food industry loves to talk about individual nutrients, because then they could sell you breakfast cereal with fluorescent marshmallows and say, you know, now with 11 vitamins and minerals, right?
as if the only way I can get those vitamins and minerals is by eating day glow marshmallows. But one must realize that nutrients come as kind of a package deal. That’s one of the reasons why plant protein sources are preferable, is all the baggage that comes along with animal protein. Food is a package deal. As much as Burger King says you can have it your way, you can’t be like, yeah, I’d like the burger.
You know, I like the protein, the iron, hold the saturated fat, hold the cholesterol, right? But whereas the baggage that comes with plant protein, oh my god, it’s many of the nutrients that people are lacking, right? 97 % of Americans don’t reach the minimum daily recommendation for fiber intake. 98 % of Americans suffer from potassium -deficient diets, right?
Kimberly Snyder (19:56.804)
Yeah.
Mm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (20:01.742)
And so most Americans are getting 67 % more protein than they need, whereas our dietary deficiencies that are rife throughout America are due to the inadequate consumption of these nutrients, which are concentrated in whole plant foods.
Kimberly Snyder (20:15.236)
Yes, and it’s not so difficult. I think about, you know, when I add up what I eat in a day, when I look at the quinoa or I look at the beans or the just the broccoli, it all adds up. It all has these incredible, you know, amounts of protein in it. It’s not that.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (20:31.822)
Oh yeah, yeah. Again, 97 % of Americans are getting more than the protein that they need. And so it’s like the question of people, wait a second, where are you getting your fiber from? Where are you getting your potassium from? Are you eating beans and greens? Otherwise, if you’re not getting pre -biotics, dietary fiber, resistance to hearts from whole grains and legumes, beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils,
Kimberly Snyder (20:44.932)
Yeah. Mm -hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (20:58.542)
you’re starving your microbial self, right? You’re starving the microbiome, and that has impacts not only on intestinal health, but throughout the body, on immune function, and mental health, and inflammation, on down the list. Yeah, so people eating plant -based diets actually get more iron, but it’s less absorbable, but that’s a benefit.
Kimberly Snyder (21:12.484)
And then what would you say to the mediator who says, well, if you’re plant -based, what are you doing about iron and absorbable iron, the non -heme iron? Are you getting enough iron in your body?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:27.758)
The benefit is because there’s an iron overload syndrome called hemochromatosis, which can have very serious negative impacts, so we should never go out of our way to increase our iron intake until we’re made sure that we don’t have excess iron. Ideally, we should have low iron stores without impairing our ability to make blood, without becoming anemic. And vegetarians, vegans, those eating plant -based diets do not have higher rates of iron deficiency anemia.
compared to those eating meat, what they do have is lower stores of iron, which is good because iron is a pro -oxidant. It’s kind of a double -edged sword. You need enough to make blood, but once you make enough blood, then we want to have low iron stores. And this helps explain why people who get blood transfusions have lower rates of cancer, because you’re actually reducing iron stores. But for women who…
Kimberly Snyder (22:12.964)
Mm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (22:25.71)
during reproductive years are losing blood every month, then they are certainly at risk for iron deficiency anemia. And just because vegans don’t have higher rates than omnivores, they both have terrible rates, right? You know, 10 -15 % of menstruating women can be iron deficient. And so then the question is, well, what’s the best way to get it? We should get it from whole plant foods and combine iron -rich foods like beans with vitamin C -rich foods, which improve the absorption—
Kimberly Snyder (22:32.484)
Right.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (22:55.47)
of non -heme iron, of plant -based iron. So, going out of our way to have in our stomach, at the same time as iron -rich foods, broccoli, bell peppers, tropical fruits, citrus fruits, some of the high -vitamin C foods, which increase our absorption of iron, but again, we should not go out of our way to increase our absorption of iron, unless we know that we really need it.
Kimberly Snyder (23:05.86)
Mm.
Kimberly Snyder (23:10.564)
Wow. So our mutual friend, Dr. Michael Dan -Butener, who’s been on our show several times as well, he always talks about beans. He always talks about how it’s consumed by these blue zones almost on a daily basis.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:20.782)
Wonderful.
Kimberly Snyder (23:30.628)
And then you get, again, I like to play both sides because these questions come up so much. Then you get the naysayers talking about the anti -nutrients, talking about, oh, be scared of this and the oxalates and all these different compounds. Can you speak to that? Because some people, there are these books out there. Again, there’s this circulation of people getting so, the circulating information that makes people really scared of these healthy foods. Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:55.438)
That’s how you sell books, right? I mean, you can’t put broccoli on the cover and tell people, but you give somebody some contrary message and you can get them, and that’s clickbait. That’s today’s clickbait, right? You tell somebody bacon’s good for you, butter’s good for you, broccoli’s bad for you, something like this. Oh my God, that’s how you get people some eyeballs. It’s just kind of boring telling people to, oh, eat your greens, all these healthy things that we’ve known about, that there’s been a consensus about in the scientific community for decades in terms of the core tenets of healthy eating and healthy living.
Kimberly Snyder (23:59.332)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (24:15.428)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:25.102)
But so, something like that, some claim that like beans aren’t good for you, they have lectins or stuff, so beans, we need beans. Okay, okay, then why does every single one of the blue zones, every single one of the areas historically with the longest, healthiest living populations, those up to 10 times the rate of centenarians, those who live to be triple digits over age 100, what, not only do they all have a Venn diagram of eating plant -based diets, but…
Kimberly Snyder (24:45.092)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:53.678)
They all, as their primary protein source, are eating beans, are eating legums. Beans take piece of lentils. So every single longevity zone in history centered their diets around beans. Oh, and beans aren’t good for you? I mean, it doesn’t make any sense. In fact, you can do interventional trials, or you randomize people, increase beans, and you can see remarkable effects on both preventing and even reversing disease, like peripheral artery disease. And it’s because that’s what feeds— they are the most concentrated source of prebiotics.
Kimberly Snyder (25:14.724)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (25:23.374)
which feeds our good gut bacteria, and so no wonder they have so many beneficial effects. But, so yeah, I mean, just, you know, they have these little kind of, you know, they glom onto these things, like something like phytates, for example, which are marketed as, you know, nutrient inhibitors. I mean, this is old science. This is based on studies on puppies and rats half a century ago. When you actually look at humans, phytates are actually—
Kimberly Snyder (25:44.9)
Hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (25:50.542)
beneficial, have anti -cancer effects, we should go out of it, we should never soak our nuts, or there used to be this, we’ve got to get rid of our phytates. No, phytates are healthy for you. One can overdue oxalates, you shouldn’t eat more than a cup of nuts a day. You can moderate your intake of star fruit and chaga mushrooms. There are three greens, beet greens, Swiss chard, and spinach that you can overdo. So if you eat more than a cup a day, I would encourage you to
Kimberly Snyder (25:51.428)
Hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (26:04.772)
Thank you.
Kimberly Snyder (26:17.028)
Mm -hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (26:21.252)
Rotate, yep.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (26:21.454)
diversify your grains, and include all the other grains that are low in oxalate, so you can eat as many cups as you want. So, I mean, yeah, but yeah. See, these are the healthiest foods, the most nutrient -dense food on the planet. It’s dark green leafy vegetables.
Kimberly Snyder (26:33.092)
And I love how you also talk about carbs. You talk about, again, all the macronutrients because we are in this age as well where some people are eating high protein, some people are really glomming onto the keto diet. And then they say, oh, well, there’s research that comes out that the ketogenic diet is really helpful in people that have cancer or I’m really losing weight on it. But again, what are the long -term effects of following this diet?
Right long term. So you talk about really high fat diets for a moment doctor
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (27:04.334)
Yeah, so even if they worked, the goal of weight loss is not to fit into a skinnier casket, right? And in fact, those people reducing their carbohydrates, so those eating more low -carb diets, live significantly shorter lives than those who don’t. I mean, these are showing these massive population studies, looking at hundreds of thousands of people, that those eating lower on the carbohydrate spectrum live significantly shorter lives, higher rates of chronic disease.
Kimberly Snyder (27:11.268)
Oh my gosh. Wow.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (27:33.454)
And in fact, when you put people in a laboratory setting, very closely monitor them, you see that switching to a ketogenic diet actually slows fat loss, slows the loss of body fat, because your body starts cannibalizing its own protein to supply glucose to keep your brain going. And so on the scale, it looks remarkable because you’re losing water weight, but when you actually look inside, what’s actually going on inside your body, actually slowing your rate of body fat loss.
Kimberly Snyder (27:54.788)
Mm -hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (28:02.382)
And that’s the important thing. When we’re losing weight, it’s not like, well, I want to lose lots of muscle. You randomize CrossFit trainees to a ketogenic diet, and you can get an 8 % shrinkage of leg muscles within a few weeks. The goal of exercise is to make your muscles bigger, not smaller, but you can have that opposite effect when you feed people.
Kimberly Snyder (28:24.58)
It’s just amazing how much information is out there that isn’t just wrong, but can actually really hurt people’s health.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (28:29.358)
Right. Right. No, again, right. So conspiracy theorists who want to talk about crazy sea monsters or something, fine, let them spin out. Let them have a little hobby or something. But when someone is saying, oh my, yeah, you really got to eat extra bacon, then it’s like, well, wait a second. You realize that is considered a known human carcinogen.
It is a category one carcinogen, processed meat, bacon, ham, hot dogs, lunch meat. This is known to cause cancer in human beings. And so, in colorectal cancer, 50 grams a day increases risk, 18%. This is the number one cancer killer among nonsmokers. And we’re sending our kids to school with a baloney sandwich or something. It’s outrageous. And yeah, the medical community, the powers of the beast should really be doing more.
Kimberly Snyder (29:01.7)
Nice.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (29:27.374)
to inform people about the dangers of some of the foods in our food supply.
Kimberly Snyder (29:29.412)
So my older son, my younger one isn’t in school yet, doctor, but my older one is one of the few vegan children at the school. And it’s great, they’re very open about it, but then I do see, you know, some of the things that other kids are eating. And, you know, as a vegan parent, some other parents may say, well, again, the usual is your child getting enough protein, or like, add up, I see what…
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (29:40.334)
Nice.
Kimberly Snyder (29:56.42)
you know, what they’re consuming in a day and it’s, you know, more than enough of these macronutrients. And can you assure parents that are considering putting their child on because then, you know, there was, who was the person, the dentist back in the day who, Weston Price Institute, who said, you give your child a plant -based diet, their jaws may not form correctly. Can you give some information to parents out there?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:13.166)
Oh. Uh -huh.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:21.902)
Yeah, so again, if you look to the largest and oldest association of nutrition professionals in the world, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, you look at their position paper on plant -based diets, and they are explicit that solely plant -based diets, vegan diets, are not only appropriate for all stages of the lifestyle, including pregnancy and infancy throughout old age, but have benefits in terms of reducing chronic disease. Are people—
Kimberly Snyder (30:36.1)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:51.278)
dying right now mostly from nutrient deficiencies like pellagra and beriberi and scurvy? No, they’re dying from nutrient excess diseases like obesity and diabetes and heart disease. They’re getting too much saturated fat, too much salt, giving them high blood pressure, too much trans fats, too much sugar. And so that’s what—and so this deficiency mindset, oh, you’re not getting enough. Oh my God, we’re getting too much of all the crap.
Kimberly Snyder (31:00.932)
Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (31:20.75)
And so really the primary focus should be on avoiding, you know, wait a second, how are you making sure your kid isn’t getting enough, too much sugar? How are you making sure they’re not getting too much salt? How are you sure they’re not getting enough saturated fat? This is what’s killing our children. This is why we are now raising the first generation of Americans to live on average shorter lifespans than their parents. And that’s because of this obesity epidemic leading to a diabetes epidemic. And so it’s like,
Kimberly Snyder (31:35.716)
Right.
Kimberly Snyder (31:43.524)
Wow.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (31:49.806)
If you care about the lifespan of your kids, it’s the well where you don’t want them to get some obscure quashy orchor or something. That’s not right. What they may end up with is prostate cancer or breast cancer. These are the chronic disease we need to be concerned about, and these are diseases of excess. And so it’s all about what can we do to clean up the diets of our youngsters.
Kimberly Snyder (32:17.22)
And, you know, again, it’s simple and it gets to feel so complicated what’s out there, doctor. And, you know, going back to your book, How Not to Age, there’s a section where you say, more than exercise, the most powerful things you can do for longevity is fruits and vegetables. And this is the things we’ve heard. But then it gets confusing when people are saying, oh, the kale is this has all the indigenous toxins and don’t eat the kale. You know, some of these carnivore.
diets, but then it comes back to the science. It comes back to very grounded research. I mean, I don’t know how many thousands of studies you have in your doctor. So then we can assure ourselves and calm down and say, you know what, colors and go to the farmer’s market and make it fun and simple. These simple foods are the most powerful.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (33:07.15)
Yeah, 13 ,000 citations in the book. And so, one can look to, for example, the global burden of disease study, which is the largest systemic analysis of risk factors in history. In terms of anti -aging foods, the single food associated with the largest expected lifespan gain would be to eat more legumes, the most important thing we can do. And then, more nuts and whole grains. So, three of the top five things are things we’re actually not getting enough of.
Kimberly Snyder (33:09.284)
Okay, 13 ,000.
you
Kimberly Snyder (33:28.676)
Wow.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (33:36.11)
and the other two are we’re eating too much meat and drinking too much soda. Eating a burger appears to cut one’s life as short as smoking two cigarettes, so if it wouldn’t even occur to us to light up before and after lunch, maybe we should choose the bean burrito instead.
Kimberly Snyder (33:52.292)
Wow. And you know, a lot of what you’re saying is in alignment as well with the ancient Ayurvedic diet, what they recommended, which has a lot of, you know, one pot meals and legumes and lots of vegetables and nuts. So there’s, you know, ancient medicinal systems agree with what you’re saying. And now, of course, all this modern research backs it up. So it’s really amazing.
Again, versus some of these fad diets, which have been around for just a few years. We never heard of these full meat diets until recently. And it gets, it feels flashy, right? On social media, there’s a lot of these people like kind of touting it, but it’s not based in this, in the deep science and these deep traditions. We look at the blue zones and how people have been eating for so long.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (34:28.206)
Yeah, I mean, according to studies of identical twins, only about 25 % of the difference in lifespan between individuals is due to our genes. So for the majority of which we can do, for the majority of which we have some control, we can look to those blue zones, these areas of exceptional longevity around the world, and what have you.
Kimberly Snyder (34:48.548)
Mmm, mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (34:57.582)
They all center their diets around whole plant foods, so they’re minimizing processed foods, meat, dairy, sugar, eggs, salt, while maximizing fruits and vegetables and whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds, mushrooms, herbs and spices, basically real food that grows out of the ground. These are our healthiest choices.
Kimberly Snyder (35:15.492)
There’s a really fascinating section of the book, Doctor and the Epigenetics chapter, where you talk about, it’s kind of breakdown eggs of the women, the female, and how it has to be regenerative to get, you know, you do this mathematical formula. And so we’re regenerating, the body has this intelligence to heal and to regenerate. And again, it has a lot to do with diet and lifestyle. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (35:24.238)
Oh.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (35:28.526)
Well, yeah, so the point I was making with epigenetics is, you know, it would seem that, you know, there’s this sense that aging is somehow kind of predetermined, that there’s no way, you know, it’s like an inevitable decay and deterioration.
you know, errors just happen, and you know, proteins break down, and you know, our genetic material just breaks down as we get older. So there’s nothing we can really do to reverse aging. We realize, wait a second, that doesn’t make any sense. How is that possible? Every single day we see a dramatic reversal of aging, and that is the ovum, the egg cell in the ovaries of women. This is a cell. So let’s say you get…
Kimberly Snyder (36:16.804)
Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (36:25.326)
you know, pregnant at age 30. So you have had, you’re basically born with every single egg cell you will ever have in your life. You don’t make more of them. And so that egg cell is 30 years old. And so wait a second, then you have a kid, they grow up and have a kid at 30, then that cell is 60 years old. And so we would have these ancient, that’s not how it works. We actually, our body’s able to actually reverse.
Kimberly Snyder (36:45.412)
Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (36:53.038)
aging in that egg, take it right back to as if it was just newly born. And so that’s just an example showing that, wait a second, the body is all the time reversing the aging process. And so, you know, it’s just a matter of, you know, figuring out the best ways to be able to do that for our somatic cells, the cells throughout the rest of our body. And this is all this field of epigenetics, which is not just…
Kimberly Snyder (37:09.956)
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (37:19.502)
kind of, you know, genes are not your destiny. We can actually turn on and off genes based on diet and lifestyle improvements. And we can, you know, kind of reverse these, these epigenetic changes of aging by, you know, caloric restriction, other diet and lifestyle improvements, including physical activity, smoking cessation, and sticking kind of more to the protocell than the meat counter and making sure we’re getting enough methyl donor nutrients like folate.
That’s how our cells turn on and off genes by methylated our genes. We need to have those methyl groups and they come from beans and greens. That’s one of the reasons, beans and greens. So this is particularly important for women of reproductive age to get 400 micrograms of folate in their diet. It’s often recommended that women take folic acid supplements, but…
Kimberly Snyder (37:48.644)
Mm.
Kimberly Snyder (37:59.94)
Beans and greens.
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (38:14.51)
That’s because people aren’t eating beans and greens, but you could get, you know… It’s right, right? I mean, a couple lentils, or edamame, get all the folate you need for the day. Spinach, asparagus, broccoli, I mean, these are all packed with folate.
Kimberly Snyder (38:18.308)
Have your Glow -In -Grid smoothie every day.
Kimberly Snyder (38:23.844)
Yes! Have that kitchery!
Kimberly Snyder (38:32.324)
I have to tell you, doctor, speaking about epigenetics, my grandmother, who from my mother’s side is from the Philippines, and she lived in a more rural environment, lower toxicity, all that so -called peasant food, like tons of vegetables, lots of stews, and she had healthy children till, I believe the last one was birthed at 49. So it was just, we just show that there is this possibility within the human body.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (38:36.43)
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (38:45.614)
Love it.
Wow.
Kimberly Snyder (39:01.22)
to regenerate and it’s not just about chronological age, but it really is about your epigenetics and your biological age.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (39:09.902)
Yeah, which we can modulate. In fact, not only do those eating plant -based diets tend to age slower, but you can randomize people. There is a study which hundreds of individuals were randomized to a diet centered around whole plant foods, or to exercise, or to neither. And though sadly, physical activity alone failed to slow the aging process, but those randomized to the dietary intervention group, the plant -based group, had a significant slowing of—
Kimberly Snyder (39:31.46)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (39:38.734)
the biological age.
Kimberly Snyder (39:41.316)
So doctor, can I ask you a personal question? Are you plant -based? With all this information. Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (39:43.246)
Please.
And my plant base, I’ve been eating plants since the 1990s, so 34 years.
Kimberly Snyder (39:54.628)
So do you have any dairy in your diet or any sort of animal products? Full vegan.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (39:56.942)
No, no, no, milk is for babies. And then to drink the milk of another species doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, no, I mean, I certainly do try. I mean, the eating plant -based is really about maximizing the intake of the healthiest foods. And so I want to emphasize it’s about…
Kimberly Snyder (40:07.876)
So you’ve been fully vegan since the 90s.
Kimberly Snyder (40:24.164)
Yes, not that word vegan can be.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (40:27.086)
It’s about eating—as a physician, terms like vegetarian and vegan, that just tells me what you don’t eat. I mean, do you actually eat vegetables? Right? And so that’s—right. We should try to eat primarily plants, though not necessarily exclusively.
Kimberly Snyder (40:35.044)
Yes, yes. Plant -based, vegetable -based, right.
Kimberly Snyder (40:45.444)
So one of the sections of being really practical here, I love how you talk about coffee in the book. And some people say, oh, you know, I’m really healthy. I don’t have any coffee. You know, some people over have the caffeine, but then you talk about how coffee can actually be beneficial for the liver. But we don’t want to put dairy in the coffee, although you say that soy milk is OK or some of these alternatives. And, you know, something that’s going on now, doctor, is, you know, rallies against Starbucks to drop the, you know,
the vegan milk, it’s their tax, it’s their charge because they’re charging 70 cents more or whatever for oat milk or soy milk. So anyways, tell us about coffee. Is it that bad? Can we have a little, what should we definitely not put in it? Which I got spoiled by talking about the dairy. So tell us about coffee a little bit.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (41:15.63)
O -Ren.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (41:26.254)
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (41:30.606)
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (41:36.782)
And how not to die in my chapters on liver disease, depression, and Parkinson’s.
Coffee drinkers do seem to be more likely to be a good choice.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (41:49.55)
can worsen acid reflux disease, bone loss, and glaucoma. Otherwise, though, coffee is good for you, though. Every cup of coffee is a lost opportunity to drink something even healthier, which is a cup of green tea associated with even a longer lifespan than those drinking coffee.
Kimberly Snyder (42:05.142)
How much caffeine will start to impact our longevity and our aging? Let’s say you have green tea all day long. There is some caffeine in there.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (42:14.03)
Oh, so it’s actually, so the longevity effects of…
independent of caffeine. So decaf coffee, for example, has the same effects as decaffeinated green tea. So it’s actually the—for coffee, it’s the chlorogenic acid, the primary antioxidant. Coffee has a pro -autophagy effect. It helps our body cells kind of cleanse ourselves from accumulated cellular debris. But that compound is glommed onto by casein, which is a very protein. So when you add milk to coffee, you actually block your absorption of—
Kimberly Snyder (42:26.596)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (42:49.07)
of that autophagy activating compound, but soy protein doesn’t do that. And the other soy milks and the other plant -based milks don’t have much protein to.
Kimberly Snyder (42:59.332)
And of course, soy is consumed by the Okinawans in the traditional Blue Zones diet.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (43:02.926)
Oh, absolutely. In fact, the country with the highest per capita soy intake, Japan, also until very recently had the longest life expectancy surpassed now only by Singapore.
Kimberly Snyder (43:17.444)
So it’s, you know, the Weston Price Institute. There’s certain organizations that like to really demonize soy. But again, it goes back to looking at how much soy is someone really consuming in a day. We’re not having 15 pounds for it to be, you know, estrogen enhancing or, you know, some of these trypsinogen blockers, some of the things that, you know, these concerns they raise.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (43:37.198)
I know, I mean, indeed, soy is the primary protein source of the Okinawan, the traditional Okinawan diet, which, and they are the second longest -living population in human history, only behind the vegetarian Seventh -day Adventists who also eat a lot of soy.
Kimberly Snyder (44:01.604)
So if someone doesn’t have a soy allergy, is there any sort of harmful effect we should be aware of or limiting soy consumption in general is something we should think about?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (44:14.446)
Um, uh, uh…
Yes, the soy is among kind of like the top dozen allergens about.
are allergic to soy, and obviously they should avoid it. And there are more and less processed forms of soy. So I would encourage people to try to get whole sources, whole food sources of soy. So for example, just soybeans out of a can. You can make chili or whatever. Or edamame, immature green soybeans in a pod. Miso, tempeh, right? You see the individual soybeans in tempeh. As opposed to some of the…
Kimberly Snyder (44:28.324)
Yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (44:33.86)
Mm -hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (44:46.788)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (44:51.812)
Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (44:54.19)
where half the fibers.
Kimberly Snyder (44:56.9)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (44:58.094)
In a way, soybeans are so healthy you can remove half the nutrition, and still have a really healthy product. So tofu is healthy, but something even healthier would be something like tempeh, which is less processed.
Kimberly Snyder (45:07.076)
I love tempeh. It’s such a great thing to keep in the kitchen. It’s a way we can make easy meals with it and just boost the protein.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (45:15.182)
Oh, I’m so glad you said that. You know, I talk about tempeh a lot because of the two, these two longevity vitamins, ergothionein and aspergillin, found concentrated in tempeh and mushrooms in general.
Kimberly Snyder (45:26.724)
Are you a big tempeh eater yourself, doctor?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (45:28.43)
Of course. In fact, after this book, I started ramping up my tempeh consumption. I have it in the fridge right now. I do.
Kimberly Snyder (45:32.964)
Do you like to cook yourself? Are you simple? You know, for me, doctor, as time goes on, my meals just become really simple, colorful. People are always looking for new recipes. And when I started eating plant -based, I was like, oh, let me find another salad dressing or whatever. But now it’s simple. I use a lot of tahini salad dressings or lemon. It just gets clean. Yeah.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (45:41.614)
Hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (45:55.502)
Once you find out what you like, you know, then you stick with what you love.
Kimberly Snyder (46:02.18)
Stick with what you love. So, and I love this section on skin. We’ll go back to skin, like you said, which used to be the largest organ before the obesity epidemic. But when it comes, you know, a lot of these things are the same in Ayurveda as is the micro, as is the macro. Like there’s this overlap, the things that are really good for our bones or our muscles or organs are the same thing that’s good for our skin. And one of the things you talk about is a plant -based diet has been correlated with better skin health, less wrinkling.
There’s research in that chapter in particular where you go into that.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (46:34.062)
Yeah, sure, though the single most effective way to slow the signs of skin aging is to protect your skin from the sun, though ambient air pollution can also cause issues. But in terms of diet, the carotenoid nutrients in certain colorful fruits and vegetables are actually deposited in our skin and can offer this kind of healthy glow in both light and dark skin. Nutrients in greens can improve skin elasticity, collagen status, facial wrinkles.
Kimberly Snyder (46:39.94)
Yes, thank you.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (47:02.542)
perhaps due to this kind of inside out sunscreen effect. Drinking extra water can improve symptoms of skin dryness and brushness. Roughness, honey bush tea I talk about can reduce eye wrinkles. Cocoa powder can improve skin thickness, elasticity, decrease wrinkle severity. Almonds can decrease wrinkle severity. Again, with the skin UV resistance. Ground flaxseeds can improve skin smoothness. Soy foods can improve facial skin elasticity and wrinkles.
Kimberly Snyder (47:30.788)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (47:32.046)
So yeah, there’s all sorts of things we can do. Then I have the whole thing about all the topical kind of anti -aging skin cream ingredients that are, you know, total bunk or things that are actually useful and you can kind of make DIY recipes out of them.
Kimberly Snyder (47:45.636)
You have everything, doctor. Let me ask you about this phenomenon of bone broth. Everybody’s like, oh, bone broth, you’re having the collagen, that’s really great for your skin. Wouldn’t there be a lot of heavy metals and sort of toxins that come in from a lot of these animals? First of all.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (48:00.302)
Oh yeah, lead kind of concentrates in bone. So yeah, there have been studies looking at bone bar. This was done with chicken bones. It showed that you can get, when you boil chicken bones to make like chicken soup or something, a lot of that lead.
to the water, but there’s this concept that you eat— there’s a lot of collagen in your skin, so if you eat collagen, somehow that kind of helps your skin, but that’s like saying, you know, like, I want to be smart, so I’m going to eat brains, or I want to have good eyesight, so I’m going to eat eyeballs. It’s this kind of weird, kind of magical thinking, whereas there are ways we can boost collagen status, but it’s things like eating vitamin C -rich foods and eating greens and that—
Kimberly Snyder (48:32.452)
Eat hair. Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (48:37.718)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (48:47.3)
Mm -hmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (48:50.766)
Our body makes all the collagen we need. We don’t have to actually eat it. In fact, collagen is the only incomplete protein in the food supply. They talk about plants being incomplete. No, every single plant protein is a complete protein. The only protein missing in essential amino acids is collagen, or also known as gelatin. So like Jell -O is the only protein source you can actually die because you’re missing tryptophan, essential amino acid. It just doesn’t make any sense that you’d be going out of your way to take it.
Kimberly Snyder (49:16.452)
Well, I think it’s fear based, right? Like, oh, I don’t want to age, so let me eat the collage. Let me have the bone broth. But like you said, what’s more effective is actually having compounds and foods that build the collagen naturally, like these colorful fruits and veggies, which are so alive and beautiful and mangoes and, you know, all these berries, all these amazing things. You eat those, you don’t have to have this fear that you’re missing out eating the bone broth, which sounds so gross to me. Yes.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (49:42.126)
And they’re delicious!
Kimberly Snyder (49:45.316)
The bone broth sounds really gross to me. That’s what I meant. Yeah. Right?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (49:46.958)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pass the blueberries.
Kimberly Snyder (49:52.292)
So what’s your take on, you know, again, this is, I could go on and on, doctor. This might, this will be my last question because I really, wow, did I take a deep dive in your book and your book will continue to stay on my kitchen counter. I show it to people when they come in the house. I take screenshots that green smoothie study. I sent it to my husband because we have green smoothies every day and he has a, I’ll say a little bit of a different diet, doctor, right? So it’s more about.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (50:14.094)
Excellent, excellent.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (50:19.662)
Okay, sure sure great
Kimberly Snyder (50:20.676)
adding in the vegetables, trying to reduce his meat portion sizes. We can’t push people.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (50:26.414)
I love it. Yeah, yeah, meat. Yeah, no, no, yeah, look, let meat be a condiment or a flavoring rather than the kind of centerpiece of the dish. Absolutely, right. And look, it doesn’t matter if you’re eating it on your birthdays or holiday special occasions, on a day -to -day basis, you really should try it.
Kimberly Snyder (50:41.444)
And then, you know, the other thing people bring up is sugar. Right? I used to have this juice shop at the Four Seasons and you’d see people say, no banana, too much sugar. And then they triple the protein powder. Right? And we talked about this complete nutritional, you know, beautiful package. We’re not talking about cane sugar here, but if someone’s like, hey, I’m pre -diabetic, there’s certain conditions, you know, they’re trying to reduce sugar overall. But for the average person, should we be scared of fruit? Doctor, tell us.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (50:44.014)
Mmm.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (50:52.078)
That’s good.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (51:08.046)
Oh my god. No, no, no, in fact, even diabetics. You can randomize diabetics to eat more fruit or to restrict fruit, and guess who has better long -term blood sugar control? Those that eat fruit. In fact, so if you take people, you know, something called glucose tolerance tests, where you have people basically down, swig down a cup of water with three tablespoons of corn syrup in it, and then you just kind of measure the exaggerated blood sugar curve, what if you added an extra tablespoon of sugar, but in the form of berries, pureed berries?
Kimberly Snyder (51:17.668)
Mmmmm.
Kimberly Snyder (51:31.588)
you
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (51:37.39)
What would happen? Well, you’d have even a greater blood sugar spike, right, because you just added another tablespoon of sugar, but no, you actually have a lower blood sugar. The spike actually slows down the rate of the sugar.
enters in your system not only because of the gelling effect of the fiber in your stomach, but the polyphenols, those bright, colorful compounds, actually block sugar absorption in the small intestine. When we get sugar the way nature intended, our body can better handle it. It’s like we’ve been eating coca leaf for thousands of years without any problems with addiction, but when you crystallize, when you extract it out and turn it into cocaine or extract it further into crack cocaine,
then you can run into problems, right? So it’s like no one’s getting sick from eating sugar beets, but it’s when you just throw away all the nutrition, all the fiber, and you’re just left with the sugar, then we got a…
Kimberly Snyder (52:21.142)
Yes. Yes. But again, back to nature’s bounty, back to natural, unprocessed, colorful foods. But again, there are so many incredible aha moments that I had from reading your book, which again is called How Not to Age by Dr. Michael Greger, the scientific approach to getting healthier as you get older.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (52:35.694)
you
Kimberly Snyder (52:48.324)
And I do read a lot of these books and these studies, doctor, but I have to say, I learned so much from your book and I cannot recommend it enough. Can you tell us, doctor, where to get this book and where to find out more information about your work and you?
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (53:04.814)
All my work is free at NutritionFacts .org, which is a free nonprofit science -based public service providing daily updates on the latest nutrition research via bite -sized videos. We have thousands of videos now and nearly every topic of healthy eating with new videos and articles uploaded every day on the latest in evidence -based nutrition. What a concept. No ads, no corporate sponsorship, not selling anything, just put it up as a public service.
Kimberly Snyder (53:28.1)
I love it.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (53:30.798)
as a labor of love, nutritionfacts .org. And where do I get my books? You go to your local public library, grab the book. If you do choose to buy it, though, know that all proceeds I receive from all the sales of my books are all donated directly to charity. I just want you and your loved ones to enjoy the longest, healthiest life.
Kimberly Snyder (53:32.292)
you
Kimberly Snyder (53:48.708)
That is so incredible. I wanted to point that out. All the proceeds Dr. Michael receives from his books and speaking engagements are donated to charity. You are coming from your heart, doctor. You’re coming from this passion. You really want others to be healthy and to benefit, and it really shows. So thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your little piece of your vast wisdom with us in your incredible book. And I can’t wait to keep…
Diving in, reading, reading over and over again. Thank you so much.
Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (54:21.55)
You are so welcome. Keep up the good work yourself.
Kimberly Snyder (54:24.676)
Thank you. And everyone, be sure to check out this book. We’ll link to it again directly in the show notes, mysolluna.com. And we’ll be back here as always Thursday for our next Q &A show. Till then take great care and sending you much love
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