Ancient Korean Wisdom for Modern Wellness with Michelle Jungmin Bang [Episode #971]

This Week’s Episode: 

In this engaging conversation, Kimberly Snyder interviews Michelle Jungmin Bang, an eco entrepreneur and author of ‘Sun and Ssukgat: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity. They explore the rich traditions of Korean wellness, the importance of self-care, and the balance between modern beauty standards and traditional practices. Michelle shares her insights on mindful eating, the significance of gratitude, and how she teaches her children about their cultural heritage. The discussion emphasizes the value of resilience through tradition in a fast-paced modern world. In this conversation, Michelle shares her insights on Korean wellness practices, emphasizing the importance of using whole plants for nutrition and the cultural significance of self-care. She discusses the concept of ‘Ssukgat’ and its health benefits, the role of nutrition in building resilience, and how to incorporate Korean wisdom into everyday life. Michelle also highlights the importance of postpartum recovery in Korean culture and the need to preserve traditional knowledge in modern times. The conversation concludes with a focus on the healing properties of traditional ingredients like ginseng and the use of natural products in skincare.

 

About Michelle Jungmin Bang

Michelle Jungmin Bang is an award-winning eco-entrepreneur and Harvard Business School graduate who spent 16 years living in Asia as a Korean-American from New York City. She is the author of Sun and Ssukgat: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity., a wellness guide covering her research, interviews, and personal eco-conscious journey in uncovering centuries-old well-being traditions from her time in Asia and Korea, where scientists project its people will top longevity charts in 2030. She is passionate about driving social impact and serves as a board director and founding member of various mission-driven organizations including GrowNYC which is an environmental nonprofit with a mission to empower all New Yorkers with equitable access to fresh, locally grown food, neighborhood green spaces, opportunities to reduce waste, and care for the environment. Michelle is also the co-founder and founding CEO of The R Collective (formerly BYT), a sustainable fashion brand that creates affordable luxury pieces out of high-end materials that would otherwise have been disposed of in a landfill.

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Guest Resources

Book: SUN & SSUKGAT: The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity

 

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Michelle Junbing Bang and Her Work
03:01 Cultural Insights: The Korean Art of Self-Care
05:58 The Dichotomy of Traditional and Modern Beauty Standards
09:04 The Importance of Mindful Eating and Temple Food
12:04 Gratitude and Its Role in Self-Care Practices
15:03 Teaching Children About Wellness and Heritage
18:01 Resilience Through Tradition in Modern Times
24:12 The Significance of Sucut in Wellness
27:03 Building Resilience Through Nutrition and Terrain
29:31 Incorporating Korean Wisdom in Everyday Life
34:36 Korean Wisdom for Mothers and Postpartum Recovery
39:09 Preserving Cultural Wisdom in Modern Times
41:07 The Healing Power of Traditional Ingredients
43:55 Natural Ingredients for Skincare and Wellness

 

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• Chilla Gorilla & Lanky Lemur Journey to the Heart
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OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY!

• Wellness Insights: How to Listen to Your Body for Nutritional Guidance [Episode 878]
• How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard EP. 877
• How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger [Episode #873]
• How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo [Episode #867]

 

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Transcript:

Kimberly Snyder (00:00.984)
Hi everyone and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited for our very special guest. Here with us today, her name is Michelle Junbing Bang and she is an award winning eco entrepreneur, a Harvard Business School graduate. She has been living in Asia part of the time for over 16 years where she continues to, to this day, she splits time between Manhattan and Asia, one of my favorite places in the world.

And she has a new book out called Sun and Sukat, the Korean art of self-care, wellness and longevity. She is also a fellow mama of two. Michelle, welcome to our Feel Good Show. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

Michelle (00:46.441)
Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored to be here. I love your work.

Kimberly Snyder (00:51.118)
Thank you so much. And I have to say that when your book came across my desk, I was really excited because I actually was able to spend time in Korea some years ago. I was there for about three and a half weeks and it was really impactful for me. I loved the depth of the culture. I loved visiting and learning about the history.

Michelle (01:02.014)
Amazing.

Michelle (01:07.122)
Okay.

Kimberly Snyder (01:17.376)
I loved, you there was so much around beauty. There was so much around wellness. I mean, it really is. There’s so much depth that we can all learn from, I feel like, in Korean wellness. So thank you for writing this book and bringing it to the forefront.

Michelle (01:33.823)
Yeah, it’s such a pleasure to be here. mean, so just to add, I have also been trained in functional foods. So that was sort of part of my journey as well, just kind of the firsthand research, but also really formalizing that training and kind of extending that to healthy aging and mother-baby care, which is very important to me as a mother.

Kimberly Snyder (01:43.022)
Mm.

Michelle (01:55.967)
But the other thing too is that my father’s a doctor who is trained in Korea. So I very much grew up in a world of East-West medicine. So it’s a very different approach than Western medicine because it integrates holistic practices. growing up as a child, kind of seeing him, using things that were deeply embedded in our Korean culture like

Kimberly Snyder (02:16.726)
Yes.

Michelle (02:23.41)
holistic measures, using recovery foods for injuries, for surgeries, for pregnancies, and this is very much a normal part of the way we grow up. I just didn’t sort of connect the dots until later when I started researching and learning more about it. The other thing too is that later I married into a traditional Chinese family, which they…

completely embodied this whole, you the traditional wisdom that was passed down generationally. So it just, the book encapsulates all of that, including, you know, my travels across Asia. So it was just really interesting. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, so I’m very much a, you know, sort of a East West person.

Kimberly Snyder (03:01.772)
Okay. Yeah. So you span both worlds. And you know, it’s interesting, Michelle, I’ll share that my mother’s from the Philippines and she came over in her early twenties with a educational scholarship. And so how I grew up as well, she wasn’t a physician and neither was my grandmother, but there was a lot of very holistic teas and soups and stews and practices. And when we weren’t feeling well, my grandma would…

whether always saying, know, put warm water on your head and, you know, warm your hair and, you know, do this and do that. So I also grew up with this, different approach to wellness, which wasn’t just, you know, run and take the Tylenol or the medicine, but really using a lot of these just different modalities, which have been passed down for centuries. And there’s so much wisdom. And also later in life studying Ayurvedic medicine, which as you know, comes from, you know, ancient India.

and see, wow, there is now so much that’s being studied formally in Western medicine, but came from our ancestors wisdom and is so needed in the modern world. And I remember going to Korea and going to a lot of the, you know, the spas and doing some of the infrared saunas and just the level of self care and how this was really a part of.

society. wasn’t just a once in a while. And sometimes in the spas there was families and it was multi-generational and people would be in there for long periods of time and they would roll out the mats. And so I love how embedded these ideas are instead of being fringe or again sort of auxiliary to the culture.

Michelle (04:44.959)
Absolutely, you what you’re talking about is the traditional bathhouse culture. It’s called the gym. And you know having spent so much time in Asia I’ve been to sort of the best luxury spas, know, just things that are so exotic, you know with peacocks running around but you know what really fascinated me was that

Kimberly Snyder (04:50.285)
Yes.

Michelle (05:04.028)
This is like what you said, it’s so embedded in the culture, it’s normalized, and it’s actually very family oriented. So you are going in as a child with your grandmother, you’re going there and you’re starting to start seeing how to self care. I mean, you’re building the toolbox to figure out how to take care of yourself. For me, of looking back at that, because I had these experiences as a child and I kind of…

really dismissed it because I was living in the US and just wanted to become Americanized, be part of the culture here. And then just sort of thinking back and realizing how this is part of why they were living so long. And what’s interesting about the traditional bath houses is that just for a few dollars, and people, it’s so budget friendly that people do this every day.

Kimberly Snyder (05:39.264)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (05:58.541)
Yeah.

Michelle (05:58.751)
they can stay there for 24 hours. know, people go on dates to go there. You know, it is so normalized. And you know, they have these like, yeah, it’s great. Yeah, so they have these heated floors and they’re just all sort of like lying down on the heated floors, you know, after going to the cold waters and you know, trying different things and it just becomes kind of like a really fun experimentation. It’s all really great for your body too. So.

Kimberly Snyder (06:08.724)
hang out. Yeah, it’s comfortable.

Kimberly Snyder (06:28.8)
Yes. So Michelle, have to, you when I was there, was this really interesting dichotomy where I go to the bath houses and there’d be this, you know, and there’s the women’s section and the men’s section and the women would be very, I was like, like confident, like you kind of go in, you’re naked. There was just this sort of like self-acceptance and this confidence I felt. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then on the other hand, when I was traveling in Korea,

Michelle (06:28.862)
Yeah, that was fun.

Kimberly Snyder (06:58.19)
I started hearing about how there’s a lot of young women are getting the eyelid surgery and wanting to reshape their faces and lighten their skin. And it’s so interesting because on one hand, I was seeing this very traditional, I am myself power. And then there’s almost this other part of it. And of course you see this complexity in the US and many countries, but this other side of almost like homogenization. Can you speak to that a little bit when it starts to come?

Michelle (07:19.646)
Yeah, and I think you are hitting the nail on the head. The reason why I wanted to write this book was because I was starting to see these nourishing traditions fade away in our modern world. What self-care means and what it meant for centuries, what you grew up with, what I grew up with, was sort of fading away. And I started seeing that actually

Kimberly Snyder (07:34.978)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Michelle (07:46.429)
when I was, so the beginnings of it was just sort of casually interviewing. I really didn’t have an intention to write a book. I was just realizing, here I am living in Asia, a continent that breed food is medicine philosophy. And it’s not just about food, it’s about a whole way of living. So I started casually interviewing. And then I started realizing, so many of the younger folks are actually moving into the city, adopting these modern communities, adopting a new way of

Kimberly Snyder (08:02.509)
Yes.

Michelle (08:15.068)
you know, just being disconnected with the earth, with, you the seasons and, know, and part of it too is just, you know, we’re stuck inside having to, you know, be on our computers all the time, you know, be on the phones. And I think, you know, a lot of things like what you were saying with beauty and self care just started becoming redefined, you know, in the way, you know, with plastic surgery, but that’s not the way we actually grew up.

Kimberly Snyder (08:19.01)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (08:35.456)
Yeah

Michelle (08:40.671)
It was really about this sort of like internal health. I always think of skin health when I look back to the way I was learning with these traditional populations, it was the result of good living. It wasn’t really the focus. was, yeah, they were just eating really well, living really well, and then skin health kind of came as a result.

Kimberly Snyder (08:41.558)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (09:04.558)
Exactly, instead of this painting on or just about the makeup or the creams or the surgery to look like everyone else. So anyways, but that’s that. Yeah, there’s this push pull that you see as we come. And that’s why bringing this information, having these conversations, you know, writing this book is really important because there’s so much power when we are in our true self and we’re not trying to look like everyone else.

Michelle (09:07.752)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (09:33.494)
I think there’s this natural vitality that comes. There’s creativity. There’s so much that comes when we really are just embodying who we are. And I know easier said than done when so many of us are on social media and you see images and you’re looking at celebrities and the mind starts to compare. But I think really rooting into the self-care practices, for me, which shifted me over from always weighing myself or always trying to get to these goals,

has been the experiential, right? I started to feel better when I wasn’t just counting calories and I started to eat more holistically and I did start to have sauerkraut and I started to heal my gut health. I started to just, it’s this embodiment of experience. And I think that’s where we need to move people towards instead of just metrics or visuals or here, you need to feel how good it is to apply some of these practices you talk about in the book. And it’s, know,

We’ll get into that in just a moment. It’s not just going to a traditional bathhouse. A lot of what you speak about with temple food and other practices we can do at home.

Michelle (10:40.499)
Yeah, mean, what I, well, just one more thing about the traditional bath houses was that I loved how, you know, you just sort of stripped, you’re stripped away from the demarcations of what, you know, might, you might be identifying with in modern life. your clothes, the brands that you’re wearing, the makeup, you know, it’s, you’re just human to human. So it’s a very, you know, for me, it was just a really wonderful experience. I met so many fascinating people, you know, I sort of,

Kimberly Snyder (10:58.083)
Yeah.

Michelle (11:09.374)
I’m very sort of detail-oriented. made a spreadsheet. You I was thinking about all of the places that I wanted to go to. And one of the places was going to see the Buddhist nuns in the mountains of Korea and learning about temple food. So what I learned was that a long time ago, the way Koreans eat today with all the little dishes and what they call banchan, the side dishes, actually came from

Kimberly Snyder (11:34.401)
Yes.

Michelle (11:37.181)
the royal family, the dynasty eating, because it was so interesting to me, because I was going into the dossiers about this. They actually used to employ royal physicians that worked in tandem with the cooks. And it was sort of like a very forward thinking, just, OK, so here’s what might have been a very traditional version of what we know of now as a food journal.

Kimberly Snyder (11:53.356)
Michelle (12:04.302)
So they would take what the royal family would eat and then if they would have a negative reaction to it, then they would eliminate that for a period of time and then go back and sort of think about how they could use the foods to make them feel better. So the physicians would have this dossier, then share their knowledge with the cooks. And I bring that up because the foods there were very, for them it was medicine.

And things like the fermented condiments were, it was an extremely important job in the kingdom. So only the important people actually got to, it was under lock and key and it was very documented in terms of how much time everything was kept and preserved. And the reason why I bring this up is because the Buddhist, many of the Buddhist nuns actually retired from those kitchens. So it just was this wave of coming, trickling down into community and what we see today in Korean cuisine.

food is really about eating in season, eating with nature, you know, being very mindful about what you’re eating. I actually, loved when I was sitting with the Buddhist nuns and you know after we prepared food together, together they actually made us, well first of all before the egg,

Kimberly Snyder (13:22.318)
Oh, sorry, Michelle. Sorry to interrupt you, but there’s like a constant hitting sound. So I don’t know you’re hitting your mic, John, if we could edit this part out just so we don’t do it the rest of the interview. There’s like a popping, I don’t if it’s with your hand or, yeah, just try not to pop because it’s blowing out the sound. So we’ll edit this whole part out. It’s okay. Sorry, go back in. You were talking about, yeah, spending time with the Korean monks or nuns.

Michelle (13:35.964)
It might be my hands. Sure. Okay.

Okay.

Michelle (13:48.517)
Yeah, so I think what I loved most about, you know, my time with the Buddhist nuns is that they just remind you of this sort of philosophical approach in life. It’s a very, it’s a living life with intention with mindfulness. mean, even thinking about, you know, what you’re eating in front of you, you know, how long it took to grow, eating the entire plant, you know, from flower to root, and you even the peel, which is actually

the more nutritious part that we often throw away. It was just, yeah, I just loved my time with them. you know, they take time to, you know, before the meal, but also after the meal to make sure that you’re sort of thinking about what you’re putting into your body. It’s this energy that you’re putting into the body that came from the ground.

Kimberly Snyder (14:37.442)
beautiful. Well, I remember being in Korea and I pretty much ate exclusively at the temple food restaurants because I am plant based and there were so many beautiful options with a kabocha squash. And to your point, just the way they were roasted with beautiful sauces and just had the peel on them was when I make kabocha squash, I also eat it. And it was I also took a kimchi making class.

And it was really easy. I just made it without the fish sauce, which can sometimes be in or sometimes not, but the way it was wrapped and then sort of buried in was really just so much care was put into, you know, as you’re saying, the ways in which the food was treated and handled, which is the opposite of sort of this fast paced, you know, not really chewing well, just getting the food in the body. And so there’s this, like the centering.

Right? So you go to the bath house and we’re not rushing from one thing to the next. We’re making the food. There’s this, like, it’s like slowing down the hurry mindset, which I think is a really big part of true wellness as we continue to look around. It’s one of the through lines is not just rushing from one thing to the next, but breathing, being present, allowing for this to unfold instead of this frenetic modern pace.

Michelle (16:00.031)
Absolutely. mean, it was interesting to see, you know, how they were actually self caring daily. You know, particularly with the hidden ingredients that, you know, I kept seeing that they were referring back to. And there was this little lazy Susan that was on the countertop that they kept going back to. And there were these, you know, interesting ferments. And it just kind of made me think about what were the hidden ingredients that I was eating at the time.

You know, they’re using all of these ingredients that are super healthy, know, good for the gut, good for digestion. And, you know, there were vessels for persimmon, vinegar, which I later implemented, sesame oil, sea salt that actually was sitting for quite some time, and traditionally fermented Korean jang.

Kimberly Snyder (16:28.716)
Mmm.

Michelle (16:51.645)
which is like traditionally brewed soy sauce, gochujang, is, you know, it’s becoming more popular in Western culture, but it’s a red paper paste. And something that I love is tangjong, which is a soybean paste. So for me, this was really, you know, sort of a lesson in understanding and being more mindful of, you know, when I go into a restaurant.

Kimberly Snyder (17:04.579)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (17:09.838)
Mmm.

Michelle (17:16.408)
or if I go to a grocery store, I will think about what is actually going into the making of that dish or I’ll read the ingredients. If something’s not healthy there, if I don’t understand it, I tend to choose something else, like an unnecessary preservative or a food coloring. And I think they just really taught me so much about mindful self-care. And we meditated together, which was amazing.

Kimberly Snyder (17:42.454)
What are the things you also talk about in the book is gratitude, right? Being really present to gratitude, whether it’s with the food or just moment to moment in life. Can you talk a little bit about how that can weave through someone’s day and self-care practices and also personal benefits you’ve experienced?

Michelle (18:01.586)
I think I was so much a part of this culture of moving fast. In Korean culture, it’s called Pali Pali. yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (18:13.582)
It’s a term for, yeah. You really see it in the cities. I mean, of course, also in New York City, but it’s just this, I’m on the train and I’m getting there.

Michelle (18:24.306)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we forget to slow down, to think about what is actually great in our lives. This practice of gratitude and I’ve implemented it. It really is embedded in the whole slowing down, noticing what is actually great in your life and embodying that. think as opposed to putting in the negative, it’s just really focusing

Kimberly Snyder (18:53.134)
Right.

Michelle (18:53.99)
your energy on what you can be grateful for.

Kimberly Snyder (18:58.42)
One of the things I do with my kids, Michelle, is at the dinner table, we say grace, and then we go around and we say what we’re grateful for in general, and then also in that day. And even we started implementing a challenge that we’re grateful for because we learned from challenges. How old are your kids and how do you teach them about gratitude and also some of these traditional practices?

Michelle (19:23.678)
my kids were on this journey with me. They went to a few of the trips with me, you know, learning to cook and actually being, you know, and, know, the, the other thing too, is that, you know, we, their time in Asia, they actually were exposed to a lot of the healthy living, you know, through, more of the elderly. they are teenagers right now. And, you know, one of the things that I feel like is so important is that,

Kimberly Snyder (19:30.22)
Beautiful.

Kimberly Snyder (19:43.501)
I love that.

Michelle (19:52.829)
My son is, he’s an athlete. He does varsity wrestling and varsity volleyball. And I think for him, it was very much a huge lesson that, you know, this actually could help him to.

I don’t know, go through a better process in his life, whether it’s training and getting stronger. These were implemented as he was growing up. So I think as a family, we focus on the process, like you said, going through the challenges and what the lessons are through them versus the results. And through that, there’s so many lessons that you can take from that.

Kimberly Snyder (20:20.419)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (20:32.45)
Yeah.

Michelle (20:36.934)
I think every time I went to a trip that I would impart all of the lessons to them, especially different ingredients, and they were really interested to learn with me.

Kimberly Snyder (20:47.672)
Do you have a teenage daughter as well?

Michelle (20:49.533)
Yes, I do. she started, so they’re actually, so they’re Chinese and Korean and they just started learning more about their heritage through what I was doing. So that was a really wonderful surprise. think my daughter,

Kimberly Snyder (20:51.886)
How do you navigate?

Michelle (21:07.802)
she just doubled down with learning about the language at a more advanced level. So that was really a nice surprise. And this is all self-motivated. It was just sort of osmosis. And I think it goes back to the parents, I think, are very much the first teachers for their children. And they will see what you’re doing and kind of be very exposed and influenced by that.

Kimberly Snyder (21:33.912)
You know, have two sons, Michelle, and sometimes I think about if I did have a daughter, what it would be like in today’s modern world, how to teach her about her own beauty, right, and to be confident in herself, because I remember being a teenage girl and having such, you know, low self-esteem and wanting to look a certain way and wanting to be thin. So, you know, it’s really beautiful that you’re actually immersing them.

Michelle (21:48.51)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (22:01.998)
in these experiences and that they’re even open to it in the first place. And of course our children are on their own journeys and they’ll, you know, they’ll find their own way. But, but yeah, it’s just interesting hearing because, you know, you’re so enmeshed in this and then, you know, at the same time you’re raising kids that are in Western modern culture and how to navigate that.

Michelle (22:23.518)
Yeah, think for my daughter, she’s just gone along the ride with me. mean, she went to the traditional bath houses with me. I think she’s very comfortable in her skin, much more so than I was when I was crying out. Just because she was seeing everything, like I mentioned before, everyone sort of without their armor.

Kimberly Snyder (22:40.376)
Yeah.

Michelle (22:52.115)
their societal armor and it was just sort of like a very human experience and we’re very much like that with each other. So it is not really about the makeup and it’s not about brand clothing. It’s about like, what really matters, what you can be really grateful for and being intentional.

Kimberly Snyder (22:53.088)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (23:14.028)
Ooh, I just got goosebumps. You know, your message is resonating with me so much in the traditional and this is the closeness we create in the family within ourselves. Because as I shared to you, I feel like I’m still in this rebirth mode after the fires with the potential for everything external to be stripped away, right? And so many of our community members did lose their homes and did lose their, you know, little town spaces. And just going back to what really

Michelle (23:29.182)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (23:43.138)
holds the test of time, right? Within ourselves, within our families. Yeah, so I just wanted to share that. And I love that, you know, a lot of these traditions that you’re talking about, they’re still here because they really work and they’re really effective. And in a world that’s often, you know, sort of grasping for the new fads and just things that come and go, there’s a sturdiness to these traditions.

and that you’re bringing forward. Can you share a little bit about this word in your title? Sudgat, which most of us have never heard about. And why is that part of the title and what does it really mean?

Michelle (24:19.784)
you

Michelle (24:26.632)
So sucut is a Korean word for chrysanthemum wild greens. And for me it was a very important concept because through my journey I was just sort of reminded that using the whole plant was very important for nutrition but also for the planet, so we’re not wasting food.

But it’s also a nod to all of the Asian greens that are often featured in this centuries old self-care wisdom that I found in Korean cuisine. For me, it represents wellness for everyone. I think it doesn’t necessarily take an expensive gym to access this huge world of health. You can actually start eating a lot of the plants that we have in our world.

We, as Americans, we focus mostly on three crops, wheat, rice, and corn. But actually when you go back to traditional diets, just like how you did growing up, Kimberly, there is actually, and I don’t think we know the exact number, but the latest number that I saw was that we have over 300,000 edible plants in our world. And we can access that. We’re actually missing out on this huge nourishing.

Kimberly Snyder (25:40.748)
Well.

Michelle (25:45.287)
supply. So, Sukkot is sort of symbolic for me. You know, it was just finding this another way of life of just, you know, finding a way of life that would actually be good for the planet, be good for my body. And the other thing too is that, you know, two other things, you know, Sukkot is actually known as cold medicine that you can eat. have it, but in it of itself, it has so many detoxifying

qualities. It’s a diuretic, it supports heart health, it curbs sugar cravings, it does so many things on top of having this unique flavor, which is a very mustardy flavor and is popular in hot pot. The other thing too is that…

The way I wrote the book and I ended up illustrating it too is there’s this metaphor between plants and humans. know, we, when we live more with building our terrains, building the resistance, you know, which is, you know, soil for plants, we actually become so much more healthy and strong. So it’s very, I felt like it was this metaphor between plants and humans. And, you know, it just kind of resonated with me because I very much want to live.

with the environment and be friendly with it.

Kimberly Snyder (27:03.19)
I really resonate with your terrain concept because that’s why I’ve always been such a big advocate for our SBO probiotics and also just eating a lot of fiber and a lot of variety. When we were going through COVID, right, it felt very instinctive to me to lean into gut health and to lean into really fortifying ourselves. And I’m also feeling that right now as well. I LA is always polluted, but you know, with the fires, pollution is concern.

for people with the runoff of the, know, what burned and in the air and things. And I’m really leaning into plants, again, sharing this on other shows and functional mushrooms and amulaki that’s our glowing greens powder. And I actually feel very strong within myself and my practices and of course having practicalities like air filters and things, but go through, you know, modern times, you know, obviously there’s pollution, there’s things, but we can be.

Michelle (27:52.712)
you

Kimberly Snyder (28:00.172)
really strong from inside and that’s one of the things that we can control.

Michelle (28:05.31)
Absolutely. I I grew up understanding that germs were, you know, it could cause disease. And I think that sort of paved the way to a lot of medical interventions like antibiotics. And I think, you know, going back to a word that I learned, Yakshik Dongwon, which is a food as medicine idea in Korean culture, it’s about using nutritious foods first, you know, most

it’s plant-based and it’s nourishing that terrain so that it’s resilient. you know, it kind of, when you look at terrain theory versus germ theory, it explains why, you know, so many people exposed to the same pathogens, you know, that are…

around in the same environment why some people get sick versus others. It’s people who are actually focusing on building a more resilient terrain, which goes back to all the people that I studied in the book.

Kimberly Snyder (28:54.593)
Right?

Kimberly Snyder (29:06.414)
So what would you say, Michelle, to someone who lives in a place where they don’t have access to some of the specific Korean ingredients you mentioned or a bath house, they’re in the middle of Ohio or in London or Texas, how can they incorporate, what are some of the practices in your book that you touch on that we can all benefit from this incredible Korean wisdom no matter where we live?

Michelle (29:31.07)
So there’s a number of different ways. I live in a city. So I think one of the sort of fascinating things that I uncovered was steps is such an easy way for you to actually live better, live long, go outside. So even within an urban city, we can find open water, a street with.

Kimberly Snyder (29:42.83)
Mm.

Michelle (29:54.463)
lined with trees or we can even go to the market to see you know sort of nature’s bounty you know that’s very colorful in the season. I think just being outside being exposed to

sunshine to, you know, fresh air and dirt. think we’re so used to sitting down in front of our computers, we’ve actually forgot to actually just step outside. So Stanford did a really interesting study. They were looking at the number of steps taken around the world. And at the time that they did this, the highest number was actually in Hong Kong. But if you look at, you know, Asian countries, they’re all sort of jostling for

these high longevity rates and you know, 2030 is expected for South Korea, but they all pretty much carry in common the steps.

and you can just do that by actually going outside. So everybody will have their own sort of magic number that will work for them. When they did the study in Hong Kong, it was about 7,000 steps. I take 13,000 steps now. I never really used to do walking at all. And you can put the steps into your cleaning. When you’re actually in the house and cleaning, all these things count as steps. I’ll get out a stop early from the train

Kimberly Snyder (30:57.026)
Wow.

Michelle (31:12.932)
take the stairs, there’s a lot of different ways that you can do that. And there’s a bigger bonus if you’re doing it outside because you’re actually taking in everything, the nature and getting outside of your desk and just being more active. Because we all have our sort of internal medicines that we inside our body that allow our body to heal and repair, which we can activate by moving, but also sweating, which goes back to the traditional bathhouse culture.

Now every day I’ve implemented just doing a really sweaty yoga class in the morning. It’s like 30 minutes and then the only other thing I do really is just the steps. And this is coming from a person that I used to enroll in gyms and it was like, I was very much a wellness enthusiast and trying to follow all the protocols. It’s really not.

as hard, you if you go back to looking at these long living populations, it’s not as hard or overwhelming as you think. The other thing too is that, you know, it was really important when I was writing the book, because I live in the modern world and I live very much in, you know, East and West worlds, that, you know, I think sometimes you can’t find the ingredients that you might find in Asia. So

Kimberly Snyder (32:20.813)
Yeah.

Michelle (32:29.416)
First of all, I think if you wanted to access a dried mushroom that’s more exotic, there is always that dried format. And it serves a benefit too that it lasts longer. It’s really easy to reconstitute, rehydrate, just pop it into a tea or a soup. And then the other thing too is that just going back to the principles. So I mentioned before that.

Kimberly Snyder (32:37.654)
Yes.

Michelle (32:55.903)
Korean cuisine has all these tiny little bowls and side dishes. And sometimes it’s made up of ingredients that you can’t find. But let’s say you’re in New York City or Ohio, like you mentioned, and you’re going to use ingredients that are in your local supermarket, you can actually take it back to the health principles. So there’s complex carbohydrates or the…

the plant nutrients or even going back to hydration, I think when you kind of strip away the ingredients and you go back to why is it that it’s healthy for you, then you can actually start employing the same health philosophies as what we used to do traditionally.

Kimberly Snyder (33:42.024)
Mm. I love that because it’s malleable, right? We can say, seasonality and just going back to the principles. And one of things you talk about in the book is the importance of fermented foods, which I’ve always believed in very much myself. And then also, I love what you said about this naturalness of walking and being outside. I too used to have a very vigorous run on the treadmill. Let me see how many calories I’m burning.

And then also it figures yoga practice. now for me, walking is a really big part of, mean, pretty much as my main form of exercise usually. And it just feels really good and also not so stressful on my body. And then another thing I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned being a mama, is there any Korean wisdom that you can impart to mothers, mothers of, pregnant women or mothers that have young children, especially?

Michelle (34:36.797)
Yeah. So in Asia, in Korean culture in particular, there’s this dedicated period of time after birth, because they know that your body has gone through this experience that is almost very traumatic. You’re building this miracle, this other life within you. it’s such a big experience that your body is going through that they apply a lot of recovery foods in order for

Kimberly Snyder (34:47.938)
Yeah.

Michelle (35:06.79)
to heal. And also foods that actually help you to breastfeed. So there’s a very popular dish, it’s called miyeokguk, which is a seaweed soup. And it’s also in Korean culture called the birthday soup. And you know, they’re sort of intertwined.

Kimberly Snyder (35:21.326)
Mm.

Michelle (35:27.94)
they, you know, in Korean folklore, they started, people started noticing that the whales were, you utilizing seaweed after birth. And so they started trying it, but it really has, you know, has had staying power. And I use that actually, when I was giving birth, I just didn’t really think about the importance of it, I’ve implemented it back. So that’s one big part, you know, in Asia, they take one month at least to recover.

And it is a really important, you know, sort of emphasized idea that the mother actually does need to recover and repair and it’s honored. So I really appreciated that when I was giving birth to my two children in Asia. But the other thing too is that I think as a mom,

Kimberly Snyder (35:57.87)
Yeah.

Michelle (36:18.95)
And writing this book, felt so much of the importance of passing down the wisdom generationally. think that’s often forgotten. you know, it’s a, we forget to, you know, to just speak about it, to have these conversations, you know, not only about our values, but where we came from, you know, whether it’s through the foods that you’re eating and these traditions, you know, I kind of relearned what I grown up with and kind of understood the importance. then I started talking about

Kimberly Snyder (36:25.56)
Yo.

Michelle (36:47.516)
that with my kids.

Kimberly Snyder (36:50.476)
When you were growing up in Brooklyn, did your parents talk a lot about Korean wisdom or did you rediscover it as a young adult?

Michelle (36:58.161)
I think, so my father, he graduated from this Korean medical school and our family friends were actually all doctors from that medical school. It was just really interesting. And I think it was because we had the shared experience of immigrating to the US from Korea. And so there was this feeling of…

our families having to really quickly adopt an American persona. Just this idea that we had to very quickly assimilate into American life with our parents and our grandparents conquering English, to succeed and survive in a new country. And I think part of that was missing. I think I saw it and I realized and reconnected the dots after I started learning more about what

my parents were doing. But there wasn’t that much of a conversation there. They actually passed along a lot of materials through me, but it wasn’t until later that I started realizing the importance of certain things. Like there was this beautiful childhood book that I really loved. It was a Korean folktale all about this concept of Korean Chung, which is basically kindness. And I started understanding all of the things that they were

Kimberly Snyder (37:58.563)
Wait.

Michelle (38:21.148)
trying to implement into me, but it wasn’t really deeply connected at first.

Kimberly Snyder (38:29.193)
It’s interesting the immigrant mindset. Sometimes my mother was the same way. She was coming, there was all this richness from the Filipino culture, but she was also wanting to make sure she was Americanized and she could, you know, she’s a little bit embarrassed by her accent and that I would grow up American as well, or, you know, fitting in. So it’s just, it’s just an interesting mix. And now, you know, I feel quite sad that I am not fluent anymore.

Michelle (38:32.766)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (38:55.53)
in Tagalog the way that I was as a child speaking to my grandmother, right? But that’s sort of that push-pull you want to assimilate. There’s these ideas of success. But the good news is that we can come back to these cultures and not forget them, like you’re doing with your book.

Michelle (39:09.662)
Yeah.

And I feel like that’s the way forward so much of this. Even when we think about our wellbeing philosophies, we have these beautiful new discoveries, new science that we’re forging our way into modern medicine. But as we do that, I think it’s so important to just preserve the knowledge, the wisdom that we actually accumulated for so many centuries. I feel like what I like to say is that I feel like, and I use food as sort of the

Kimberly Snyder (39:35.808)
Yes.

Michelle (39:40.593)
metaphor for this holistic lifestyle, but food is medicine. It’s not food versus medicine. I feel like so much of it is very, you know, sometimes it’s very dichotomous, but you know, when you meld them together, actually that’s how they actually operate in Asia. There’s sort of what I call two schools of medicine. It’s integrative. I think that’s really the way forward.

Kimberly Snyder (40:05.698)
I think is, yeah, honoring what was there in ancient times too. When I was in Korea, Michelle, there was interesting, I visited some temples and there was flyers about wanting people to understand that there was a lot of these traditional or Buddhist temples. And then there’s a lot of, know, I say more modern, but then there’s a influx of Christian churches that came up. And of course people can believe whatever they want, but not forgetting that there was also wisdom.

and history that came from these traditional Buddhist temples as well.

Michelle (40:38.814)
Absolutely.

Kimberly Snyder (40:41.71)
Can you share a little bit about, I wrote this down because my mom was a really big consumer of ginseng and she loved ginseng tea. you know, we’re going back to a little bit where we were talking about, can take, can also incorporate some of the dried products that we can get online, right? And so what is your philosophy of ginseng in particular and some of these traditional ingredients that we could use in a tea form?

Michelle (41:06.974)
So ginseng is actually what I like to think of as the common Korean trio of anti-inflammatory ingredients. So it’s ginseng, ginger, and jujubes. if I can, ginseng is actually quite hard to find, especially if you want to get into the more esoteric, like red ginseng. But…

you can find them in dried format and I try to incorporate that as much as possible in what I cook. So there’s something that my dad really liked to cook for me when I was recovering from colds, which was the soup that incorporated all three. And yeah, I really love it. mean, it…

Actually, brings me back to when I was with the Buddhist nuns learning about temple food, I asked them what they did when they got sick. And they were sharing with me this healing mushroom broth that they really love to use to help them recover over colds. And that also used all of the ingredients. It’s just putting it all together and brewing it. I feel like you can…

Kimberly Snyder (42:09.484)
Yeah.

Michelle (42:20.926)
It’s like a recipe that actually implements things that you can find in the supermarket but also sometimes the ginseng you do have to find usually in dried format. I will usually only be able to find a fresh ingredient for ginseng in a Korean supermarket. I don’t usually find it in a Western supermarket.

Kimberly Snyder (42:41.834)
Okay. What was the third one you said Ginger, which many of us have access to, Jin Singh, and then you said, what was the third one?

Michelle (42:45.566)
Thank

Jujubees. Yeah, red dates. Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (42:50.772)
Okay, I don’t think we all have access to…

Kimberly Snyder (42:56.53)
but again, the power of online and dried, right. And just, being able to source what we can. I mean, just having this interview reminds me to get back into ginseng. It’s something I sort of, I spoke about in a recent podcast as well. So sometimes when something keeps coming up, it’s sort of that guidance back to, Hey, your body could really benefit from this right now. Right. This plant just sort of keeps surfacing in the conversation. And speaking.

Michelle (43:23.218)
Yeah, absolutely.

Kimberly Snyder (43:25.742)
Speaking of plants, Michelle, one of the things I started to eat more plants and get really interested in plants, and then I started to use more plants and natural products on my skin. Some of our saloon products incorporates a lot of natural plants. As we conclude, besides the foods, what are some ways in which you’re interested in natural ingredients, plants, and skincare, or oils, or modalities that you might use in a spa setting or in a bath?

or with creams on the skin, anything you can share with us or tips.

Michelle (44:00.351)
I for my skin So I realize the importance of the microbiome and keeping this sort of balance and There’s actually microbiome everywhere in your body, you know, they’re starting to discover there there’s even a microbiome in your brain which has you know and Significance to a lot of research that’s being done and you know Alzheimer’s for example. So the skin microbiome, know, I try not to

change the balance too much, like I won’t actually wake up right away and wash my face. I’ll just try, unless I start, you know, sweating. And so I will, I like to use a lot of plant-based, natural, clean ingredients. So I have one oil that I really like that it has fermented products inside and I apply it into my face, which I really love.

Kimberly Snyder (44:37.613)
Where is…

Michelle (44:57.085)
So I’m eating the ferments internally, but I’m also applying it on my face as well.

Kimberly Snyder (44:57.73)
I love that. Yes.

Michelle, thank you so much for sharing so much of this incredible wisdom with us around Korean culture and bringing this forward and making it accessible and making it really, I would say exciting. It’s almost like when I was reading the concepts in your book, and I have been to Korea and I have learned some of this, it’s like this adventure almost. And I love that you make it accessible, but you’re also really showing these traditional

concepts and words and it made me feel like I was traveling honestly, right? Yeah, it really had that energy to it and I loved it. So once again everyone Michelle’s book is Sun and Soot got the Korean art of self-care wellness and longevity Can you share with us Michelle where we can get the book wherever books are sold? But I like to ask if there’s a specific

Michelle (45:36.318)
Great, thank you.

Kimberly Snyder (45:59.502)
place you’d like to send us to as well as where we can find out more about your work.

Michelle (46:04.542)
So HarperCollins is my lead publisher in the US. So I like to send people to the HarperCollins site, but I do have a website, michellebang.com, which is where you’ll see a lot of the updates and also my Instagram. But it’s really being sold around the world, which is so exciting because I’ve been fortunate to get five book deals before a book launch. So HarperCollins is the lead in the US and I have Hachette in the UK.

but I’m starting to see the first proof pages in German, in Italian, in Spanish. And that’s been super exciting just to see and kind of think about, how is this going to be translated in all of these different cultures? Right? I mean, I think one of the things that was so interesting to Germany was that I did mention sauerkraut and how there was a parallel to kimchi because it was actually sauerkraut before we started implementing the chilies into kimchi.

Kimberly Snyder (46:51.821)
Yeah.

Michelle (47:03.71)
But yeah, there’s I think there’s a lot of interest in learning from different cultures how to live better and in particular There’s a lot of interest these days with Korean culture the other thing to you know going into the near future is that The book is launching on February 25th in the US and I’m going to be launching it in the US but also in Hong Kong, which is my second home which is really exciting but also organizations are interested to learn for their employees, so

I’ve been invited to organizations like Google to talk about the book and what I’ve learned there.

Kimberly Snyder (47:40.076)
That is so exciting, Michelle. Huge congratulations. It’s amazing that you’re spreading this from your heart, from your soul, from your culture, from your ancestors, and it’s spreading through the world. So that’s so exciting. And we will link everyone directly to Michelle’s book, to her website, and to her social media account. So you could see on our show notes, which is mysolluna.com.

Michelle (47:43.358)
Thank

Kimberly Snyder (48:08.706)
Thank you again so much, Michelle. I really appreciate being here. And thank you everyone for tuning in. Also on the show notes, you will see links to other articles, shows I think you would enjoy. We will be back here as always Thursday for our next Q &A show. There’s a section you’ll find in the podcast area of the site where you can ask me questions and hopefully I will answer yours in an upcoming show. So thank you again so much, sending you all so much love. Take great care of yourself.

Michelle (48:10.014)
Thank you, it was an honor.

Kimberly Snyder (48:38.754)
and see you back here soon.