Closing the Courage Gap with Margie Warrell [Episode 1000]

This Week’s Episode Special Guest: Dr. Margie Warrell

In this conversation, Margie Warrell discusses her book ‘The Courage Gap’ and explores the themes of courage, fear, and self-discovery. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the courage gap, which is the space between knowing what we should do and actually taking action. Margie shares insights on how to overcome fear, the significance of being authentic, and the relationship between courage and love. She also reflects on her personal journey, including her struggles with an eating disorder and the loss of loved ones, and how these experiences have shaped her mission to empower others.

 

About Dr. Margie Warrell

Dr. Margie Warrell is a five-time best-selling author, keynote speaker, leadership coach, and Forbes columnist. With twenty-five years of experience living and working around the world, she has dedicated her life to helping others overcome fear and unlock their potential.

From her humble beginnings on a small farm in rural Australia to her current role as a Senior Partner at Korn Ferry and Advisory Board member for the Forbes School of Business & Technology, Margie has learned that courage is essential for every worthwhile endeavor. A mother of four and an advocate for women’s empowerment, she inspires others to live bravely and refuse to settle in any aspect of life.

 

Episode Sponsors:

MOMENTOUS

OFFER: Head to livemomentous.com and use code KIMBERLY for 35% off your first subscription. That’s code KIMBERLY at livemomentous.com for 35% off your first subscription.

USE LINK: livemomentous.com   Code: KIMBERLY  for 35% off your first subscription.

 

FATTY15

OFFER: Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long-term health. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to fatty15.com/KIMBERLY and using code KIMBERLY at checkout.

USE LINK: fatty15.com/KIMBERLY

Guest Resources 

Website: margiewarrell.com

Social Media: margie@margiewarrell.com

 

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Impact of Synthetic Dyes
01:23 Personal Journey: The Catalyst for Change
06:12 The Science Behind Synthetic Dyes and Their Effects
10:49 Regulatory Challenges and the FDA’s Role
13:58 The Power of Awareness and Advocacy
18:40 The Broader Implications of Food Dyes in Society
26:10 Legislative Efforts Against Synthetic Dyes
28:05 Challenges in National Regulation
29:20 Impact of Synthetic Dyes on Children
30:24 Finding Alternatives to Dyes
32:15 The Cost of Healthier Choices
34:09 The Struggles of Medical Dependency
35:51 Elimination and Its Immediate Benefits
38:41 The Broader Implications of Dyes
40:11 Adult Reactions to Synthetic Dyes
43:03 The Journey of Creating the Documentary
48:41 Where to Watch the Documentary

 

[RESOURCES / INFORMATION]

SOLLUNA PRODUCT LINKS

• Glowing Greens Powder™
• Feel Good SBO Probiotics
• Feel Good Detoxy
• Feel Good Digestive Enzymes
• Feel Good Starter Kit
• Feel Good Skincare

KIMBERLY’S BOOKS

• Chilla Gorilla & Lanky Lemur Journey to the Heart
• The Beauty Detox Solution
• Beauty Detox Foods
• Beauty Detox Power
• Radical Beauty
• Recipes For Your Perfectly Imperfect Life
• You Are More Than You Think You Are 

OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY!

• Wellness Insights: How to Listen to Your Body for Nutritional Guidance [Episode 878]
• How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard EP. 877
• How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger [Episode #873]
• How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo [Episode #867]

 

Powered and Distributed by: PodcastOne

Transcript: 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:00.691)
Hi everyone and welcome back to our show. I have a very special guest here with me today from across the country in Washington DC. I’m so excited to chat with her after reading her brand new book called The Courage Gap, Five Steps to Braver Action, Margie Worrell, PhD, who is a five-time bestselling author, a keynote speaker, leadership advisor,

And I can’t help but also add from reading her book, Mother of Four. Margie, thank you so much for being here. I felt like that should be part of the bio and I just wanted to it in organically because it’s really amazing that you’ve created so much. And that was one of the things you talked about in the book, but also breaking this idea of limitation that you couldn’t be successful in your career and also be a mother of four. So congratulations on all fronts.

Margie Warrell (00:40.392)
Yeah.

Margie Warrell (00:59.106)
Thanks, Kimberly. It’s great to be with you.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:02.661)
Margie, so much to say about courage and fear. And I want to dive a little bit deeper. You and I were chatting before about how much of the conversation in our Feel Good podcast community has been about the heart and you really connect courage and the heart. But before we get that far, tell us about this gap, the courage gap and what that really means.

Margie Warrell (01:30.222)
Well, I know I’ve had this experience myself many times, Kimberly, but I’ve also had many people share their own of knowing there was something that they should do, something they wanted to do, something they knew they needed to do. Maybe it was a difficult conversation. Maybe it was disentangling themselves from a relationship they knew was just sucking the life blood out of them.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:42.045)
Mm.

Margie Warrell (01:55.882)
maybe it was going after something they really wanted and they just had so much doubt and yet they were holding back, they were hesitating, they were procrastinating, they were coming up with all sorts of great reasons and it’s my observation that our fear creates the gap between

what we’re doing on a daily basis but also over the course of our lives and what it is we’re capable of doing between having an insight going know I should do that and actually doing it and it takes courage to close that gap.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:22.567)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:30.663)
Mm-hmm.

Margie Warrell (02:31.054)
And so many people I’ve met in my work and travels around the world, Kimberly, are living smaller lives than they’re capable of living because they’re afraid of what will happen if they step forward into that gap, if they take that action when there’s a chance that they might fall short or mess up, make a mistake, make a fool of themselves. And so I wanted to write a book that would be really, really practical to help people in those moments when you’re like, do I don’t

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:58.951)
Yes.

Margie Warrell (03:00.938)
I do I don’t I to just step forward and do it.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (03:06.139)
I resonate with those moments. Like you said, it could be something you can pinpoint, like, this relationship or this conversation. But one of the things that I started to feel into when I was reading your book is also the courage to be yourself. And what I mean by that is it’s really easy to wear different masks because we think that’s how we’re gonna be liked or accepted. You know, for me, Margie, there’s been a lot of…

Like dismantling wanting to be seen as serious and smart and overcoming perfectionism through my childhood. so just like putting things out there in a certain way, right? And it takes courage to be like, hey, but I have this whole side of me that’s more alive and silly and wacky and letting that show too in some situations except for like now my kids and my husband see it. And it feels…

scary sometimes to really let yourself be seen. But wow, the life force, Margie, right? So this quote, there’s so many quotes, first of all, in the book that I just think are like spectacular. And I was sharing with you how many I had highlighted, but there’s one in particular that resonates here. And I’ll paraphrase it. was something about when you connect to who you want to be, it informs your doing.

So was reading this and I was like, who I wanna be is free. My freedom and wholeness are like my two guiding lights. And if I wanna be free and whole, means not being fearful people aren’t gonna like me if I show these parts of me, right? And so it informs how I’m expressing, it informs how I’m writing, it informs how I’m speaking. And it feels scary at times, but it also feels really good.

Margie Warrell (04:50.146)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Margie Warrell (04:55.426)
Yeah well just because it’s scary sure doesn’t mean it’s bad right in fact often that’s the very thing we have to do and I like to frame it this way Kimberly that whenever we are letting what other people might think about us

be pulling the strings and directing our decisions and kind of in charge of how shaping how we show up. We’re essentially held captive to other people’s opinions and approval. We’re held captive to what I call impression management. Do they like me? You know, do they think I’m cool? Do they think I’m funny? Do they think I’m pretty? Do they think I’m smart? And that’s part of the human condition, right? Like we all long to belong. We want to be approved of.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:14.844)
in

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:34.845)
Managing. Yeah.

Margie Warrell (05:43.014)
We want people to think well of us and so there’s nothing wrong with that because it is wired into us but really our own human journey is developing the awareness that reclaims that power.

recognizing I’m giving this away right now. I’m trying to sound really smart. I’m trying to look really hip. I’m trying to look like my family’s a perfect family or whatever it is versus you who am I when I strip all that you know impression management and caring about approval seeking and pleasing away and I think it’s a lifelong journey Kimberly. I don’t feel like you can just flick a switch and go that’s it. I don’t care what anyone thinks because people have to say that really loudly. I’m like okay you care a lot what everyone thinks.

So I think just that’s a self-awareness piece, right?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:28.284)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:32.371)
Well, so your book has these questions and introspecting and sort of telling stories about other people’s courage and vulnerability because it can feel like a lot in there, right? Like there’s a reason why we’re wearing masks. There’s a reason why you don’t leave a relationship even though it’s crappy. There’s a reason you stay in a job that, you know, isn’t serving your life purpose.

So it’s like, ugh, it’s like a lot of energy and fear. So when you’re coaching, when you’re working with people and how you dismantle it in the book, Margie, what are some of the tips you would say to someone that’s even, you know, it feels like a lot to even broach the subject in the first place?

Margie Warrell (07:18.314)
It is a, I think it can be a lot and it’s like at what point, where do you even start? And before we pressed record, you and I talked about just that holistic even connecting in with our body and we can get there in a moment. But I think a really key thing that requires.

getting really just sometimes pressing pause on the business of our lives and zooming up and going, who is it I want to be in my one and only precious life? Thank you, Mary Oliver. Like, how do I want to show up? What are the values that want to define how I want to live my life and getting some clarity on that? Because when our values are clear, like for instance, I want to be kind or I want to be generous or I want to be a great mother.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (07:46.973)
Yeah.

Margie Warrell (08:05.232)
or a good friend. I want to be living using my gifts in ways that are meaningful and purposeful for me. When we get clarity on that it helps acts like a North Star. Like you know what I need to step away a little bit from this over here because it’s not nourishing me and I need to invest more time in this over here. Maybe it’s we’re building a skill, maybe we’re building a new web of of relationships but

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:32.498)
Yes.

Margie Warrell (08:33.742)
the clearer we are on the values that we want to define our lives by and who it is we want to be, then it makes it easier, not easy, but to rise above those very self-protective instincts that keep us stuck and playing it safe.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:39.847)
Wait.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:47.858)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:51.837)
Well, you know, to echo something you just said, which I did think was an important part of the book, and I did write it down somewhere here, was inhabiting the body. Because sometimes when fear hits, we’re kind of like frozen or like taking, you know, going elsewhere. Tell us what you mean about inhabiting the body and how it can help us as a tool for overcoming fear.

Margie Warrell (09:15.928)
Well.

We all know that our thoughts can impact the emotions we feel and then how we feel in our body. But our body, it’s not a one way street. Our physiology, these earth suits that we have, they also impact how we think and how we feel. And so just recognizing that, that our physiology impacts our psychology, gives us a portal, a doorway to enter there. There’s a lever there. And so, okay, well, where is it that I’m holding onto?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:25.393)
Okay.

Margie Warrell (09:47.124)
fear in my body and what would it look like and feel like and sound like and move like if I was embodying the courage that I wanted to have?

you know, it’s called a nervous system for a reason because we are our default is to be defensive, you know, on alert for, you know, who might who might threaten our sense of safety or our identity or reputation or our place in our social pack. And so just recognizing that that we can be moving through the world kind of in a defensive, anxious mode.

And so connecting in with our bodies helps connect that head and heart and hands and recognizing, okay, you know, what is it, where am I living from the neck up? Where am I stuck in my head, maybe? And I think that most powerful and easiest way to start with that is simply through our breath.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:34.65)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:45.756)
Mm-hmm.

Margie Warrell (10:46.318)
And I’m sure you’ve had many moments Kimberly where just pausing and taking the longest breath you’ve taken all day and just breathing in and I sort of like to couple this with a cognitive reframe. Breathe in courage, breathe out fear sort of allows us to reset you know that that vagus nerve that kind of goes down through us just to go okay where do I need to just tell my brain it’s okay right now.

Right now, in this moment, it’s okay. And to stand tall and put our shoulders back and put a smile on our face and like that, what is that telling our brain is that it’s okay, I got this, I don’t have to be going into full flight, you know, fight mode.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (11:31.079)
Well, a couple of things, I love how you do talk about posture in the book and you talk about standing up straight and really embodying, inhabiting that, you know, courage. And I remember there was a Ted talk a couple of years ago, some researcher from Princeton was talking about this body language that really did help you feel, as you also referenced in the book, just feeling more strong and brave. So I love that.

And also, Margie, you talk about the heart a lot in the book, which I resonate with so much. And my last book I mentioned before was about heart coherence and how the heart sends more messages to the brain. So when you work with the heart and you start to entrain the heart, brain, nervous system, you can really change your thoughts. And so there’s a certain point in the book where you talk about courage.

being a really high form of love. So before I read that part, Margie, I wrote back here, said, ask Margie about the relationship between courage and being loving and love, and then you hit on it. Because being courageous doesn’t mean cowering higher, being just like nice and not having challenging conversations and sort of being like people pleasing. There’s a power in lovingness that can be very courageous. Can you talk a little bit about that relationship?

Margie Warrell (12:49.036)
Yeah well the word courage comes from the word core French for heart and I know Brené Brown talked a lot about this like what it is to live a wholehearted life and the reason that I say that courage is love in its highest form and vice versa love is courage its highest form is it is living with our heart wide open to the full spectrum of human emotion.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:01.159)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:13.341)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:17.81)
Mm.

Margie Warrell (13:18.066)
And let’s face it, most of us would rather not feel the really painful emotions. Like, can we just have the good stuff? Like not that bad. I don’t want to feel, don’t my heart to be broken? I don’t want people to disappoint me. I don’t want to be rejected. I don’t want to be judged. And so to live with our heart wide open is to be fully open to that full spectrum of life’s experiences. And at the same time, deeply grounded.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:22.844)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:35.869)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:41.138)
Beautiful.

Margie Warrell (13:45.466)
in ourselves, our own worthiness at a really kind of primal and sacred level that who we are is beyond what anyone might say about us, it’s also beyond our bodies too, that our bodies aren’t, that who we are is not our bodies, it’s not our emotional state, it’s not our mental and cognitive function because lord knows that goes down over time, our bodies won’t stay this, won’t be looking the same when we’re 90 and so just being able to connect at that real heart level

that often knows what it is we should do before our mind is willing to concede defeat. Because often we know what we should do and yet we’re like coming up with 3,000 really good reasons why not and our heart is like…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (14:29.575)
Right.

Margie Warrell (14:31.252)
you know it, you know what you need to do. And I think that’s where, you know, living with our heart wide open is obviously easier said than done because we’re wired for protecting ourselves against pain or perceived pain or emotional injury.

And yet it’s a very liberating place to live from because when we can trust ourselves and our hearts to handle anything, it actually empowers us for everything. We’re more secure. We’re not less secure. We’re more secure in our lives. And that’s a work in progress sometimes, you know, two steps forward, one step back. But I like to ask people.

If you were not afraid of something happening that you couldn’t handle, if you could trust in your heart’s ability to handle anything, what is it that you would do? You know, what is it that you would change? What would you go after?

And like, well, if I wasn’t afraid of rejection, I’d do this. And if I wasn’t afraid of just making a fool of myself on the global stage, I’d do that. And it can just open up our aperture of what’s possible for us and be a really, yeah, very empowering, liberating space to be going through the world.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (15:52.115)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (15:56.595)
You know, it’s, where is that quote? It’s be before do, grounding yourself in the certainty of who you want to be elevates what you do. Coupled with this other one, when you’re willing to feel anything, this is the one I really wanted, you embolden yourself for everything. So as children, Margie, a lot of us are, you we have these patterns, we’ve been hurt. What is it? 75 % of us.

according to Bessel van der Kolk and the body keeps the score, say we have a form of trauma. So we like, you’re right, we don’t want to feel rejected. We don’t like to feel outcast or that we don’t belong. So what happens, Margie, if we put ourselves out there, let’s say we decide to ask someone on a date and we do get rejected. And you do talk about learning from the courage, but what if that makes someone just want to go back into their hole?

Margie Warrell (16:54.734)
you

And that’s where our work lies, right? And that’s a natural response, because we’re giving other people’s opinion of us in some moment of time and they don’t even know us necessarily. We ask them out on a date and they’re like, no, maybe they don’t like our hair color. Who knows? But we’re giving them power because we’re saying, I care so much about your judgment of me. So again, we’re giving them the power to determine how we will feel about ourselves. And that’s where

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:24.957)
Right.

Margie Warrell (17:26.09)
there is so much power in us defining and being self-defining. I know I am worthy. Whether or not you think I’m worthy, I know I’m deeply and innately lovable and loved and loving and whether you see that or not is actually beside the point that I know I am. And so if someone else isn’t seeing that okay great on you go on your journey and on I go on mine. I thought maybe it could be a thing here but okay clearly not.

But the most attractive thing about people, sorry, let me rephrase that. The most attractive people are people who are not letting their worth be defined by everybody else.

They’re not outsourcing their self-esteem to how many likes they have on their post or to what invite list they’re on or how the guy they’re going out with looks. They’re really, they’re so at home in themselves. And that’s an incredibly attractive thing.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:09.298)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:27.347)
Yes. So I think we have all met people like that and we can admire that. I can think of someone in my mind, she just kind of says whatever she wants. And sometimes it’s like a little bit too much, but still like she really, like you said, doesn’t, when people, she gets negative comments or at a party, people disagree with her, doesn’t affect her that much. So let’s say for anyone listening, Margie, we’re point A.

Because it’s easy, we can say, know I’m lovable, I have this self-worth, but we’re trying to cross over to be where we aren’t so suede and we’re not outsourcing. There’s a journey there.

Margie Warrell (19:08.792)
There is absolutely a journey and that’s our work. I mean, there’s various things we can do, tools we can use. I think I know myself, journaling over the course of my life has been a really powerful tool for reminding me of what at the deepest level I already know. You know, it’s like, you’re chasing.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:22.003)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:25.681)
Me too.

Margie Warrell (19:33.554)
likes or approval, you’re chasing something out there that actually, no matter how much you get of it, it will never be enough.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:42.78)
Right.

Margie Warrell (19:44.334)
It’s just you’re on this treadmill. It’ll never be enough. I mean, you might think it’s going to be enough, but then you get it and you know it’s still not going to be enough. So I think journaling can be a great way to just explore that the inner regions of our lives and go, what is it that here that’s in my way and what does love look like today? And you know, maybe there’s people we need to step away from hanging out with so much. Maybe there’s people we need to set a boundary with. Maybe there’s other people over here we we need to invest more time with.

we’re not treating ourselves with as much love and respect. Maybe we’re abusing ourselves in some way because we just keep putting rubbish in ourselves. or we’re not taking care of ourselves the way we’d like to be. Or we’re letting a particular person get under our skin and we’re not setting a boundary on them and saying hey please don’t speak to me that way. You know I I don’t want you having those conversations. But that that concept of be before do that I wrote about in the book.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:37.531)
Yes.

Margie Warrell (20:44.274)
you know when you’re clear about who you want to be and you reset because that’s a choice we make every day then you know you’re doing your high grade you’re doing when i’m clear about who i want to be and so you know i have many moments where i’m like my doubts will be really loud in my head and i’ll be starting to go down this like rabbit hole of you’re never going to do this and you’re left behind and you don’t have what it takes and

And then I will take myself out for a walk for me getting out in nature, exercising, sometimes music all at once out in nature, exercising and listening to music that just really speaks to, I call it the God within me. That’s like what I really know. You know, that will just do that will shift the space I’m in. And then, you know what, how do I want to show up today? I want to show up. I want to I want to know that I’m here.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:21.159)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:27.815)
Right.

Margie Warrell (21:33.74)
for great things and I show up as someone that lifts everyone around me and I’m not letting whether or not I landed that deal or got invited to speak at that event or XYZ, that is not going to determine how I feel about myself today and how I show up. And coming from that place, it’s like reclaiming our power and going, no, I will not be captive of my circumstances. I’m going to be the captain of my life and I will decide and I’m not going to give that away.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:40.595)
you

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:02.755)
you know, there’s a couple amazingly powerful things in there, Margie. The first thing is, you know, it isn’t like a switch. There is a journey, but I do think there is great power. You you used the term doing the work a couple of times. I think part of doing the work is considering what we’re talking about. And then reading a book like yours, where there really are these sort of standout introspective quotes. I circled a bunch in the book, as I mentioned to you.

And you can just sort of pause and say, hmm, what does this mean in my life? And journal. And I wanted to share, I’m a huge journaler. I hear my office. I have so many journals going back from when I was backpacking around the world. And it really is amazing. I don’t just write. I like to go back and read, Margie. And you could sort of see, wow, I overcame that fear. Or I had this realization afterwards. So I think there’s something really powerful in reading.

the book and looking at the quotes and also these stories that you tell inside. Because sometimes when we read other people’s stories, that’s why we’re so connected to each other. It can inspire us. And then the next part is quote on 120, ability to lift people up and affect positive change begins where your comfort zone ends. So, so much of our self doubt and fear is very me focused and very like, you know, there’s an, you know, there’s an egoic

quality to it. But when we kind of radiate out and focus on how we can be of service to others and how we can help other people be more enthusiastic, where we can give praise, where we can give encouragement, we’re not focused so much on ourselves, but there is an energy that’s moving through that can lift us up, which you so beautifully talk about.

Margie Warrell (23:49.42)
Yeah, absolutely.

It’s easy to get pulled into our own little pity party at times. I’ve had a few myself and let me tell you, I never emerge out of them going, whoa, I feel better. I’ve got to like pull myself out of it and go, Margie, you can feel sorry for yourself. You can be resentful of other people. You can come up with all sorts of narratives. But if our stories, and as you know, I have a whole chapter on this, if our stories aren’t making us feel more positive,

more purposeful or more powerful than our stories aren’t working for us. And so often we get trapped in these narratives that siphon us of our agency, that keep us feeling angry or resentful or like a victim of some circumstance. It’s not fair. It shouldn’t happen to us. And yet that keeps us from doing the very things that could help us move forward and better our circumstances. And so I think that’s where it’s

important also, not only to be focused on what it is we want versus what what we fear.

but also to be continually tuning in to what’s that talk track that’s going on in my head right now. And is this moving me forward? Is this making, moving me toward a bigger, better, braver version of myself? Or is it actually just keeping me going in circles, you know, stuck in the same behavioral patterns and thinking patterns that I’ve been in for the last 10 years. And so it’s not easy sometimes to really challenge that.

Margie Warrell (25:25.602)
that narrative because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Sometimes we have a sense of righteousness like I’m right, you’re wrong. And I see a lot of that Kimberly. I see a lot of that with people around me just in my encounters with people who are very righteous and self righteous about

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (25:43.795)
Mm.

Margie Warrell (25:46.17)
morally virtuous and it’s everyone else that’s got it wrong and if only everyone saw the world the way they saw the world and yet that doesn’t build bridges that often doesn’t it actually just creates bigger divides at times and can really be fracturing not only to our relationships but even to ourselves because we get so stuck in our own rightness.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (25:52.626)
Great.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:04.753)
Definitely.

Well, then it isolates us like this way, whether it’s a religious, you know, ideology or political or parenting method or whatever it is, instead of the heart is open. And like you said, the self worth like, well, this works for me. And maybe it works for you, but maybe you have your own way and it’s okay too. So, Margie, I’m curious, were your other books about courage as well?

Margie Warrell (26:27.126)
Yeah.

Margie Warrell (26:32.662)
Yeah, they’re different, different. They’re all different. They all have a thread of courage woven through them. Some of them have been focused more on resilience. Some of them more on life purpose and planning. Some more on leadership and careers. My book, Stop Playing Safe, was that my book, You’ve Got This, was really about overcoming self-doubt and building self-trust. So there’s that thread that weaves through all of them. All of them are.

the intention for all of them is the same, to empower people to step fully into their own brand of brilliance in one way, shape or form, and also to expand our own bandwidth for life itself. How do we expand our capacity to deal with life? Because life often isn’t going to go the way we want it to go.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:21.927)
Yes.

Margie Warrell (27:22.922)
You know that you shared with me before we recorded that you live in Malibu. mean, living in that part of California, you’ve witnessed just incredible devastation earlier this year and the impact that had on so many people’s lives. And yet we rise and yet, and yet, yeah, and yet there’s a resilience and strength in the human spirit that often we don’t even realize until it’s been tested.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:42.266)
yeah, Phoenix energy is very powerful right now.

Margie Warrell (27:52.704)
And so I often think, we can be this brave and this strong when life throws this stuff at us, like what is it that we could be doing when life’s not throwing that stuff at us that we’re not doing?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (28:05.363)
We know it’s really interesting, Margie, because there’s a through line in your books, like you said, and it’s really about, you turned it into this, you your service, into helping others, supporting others in overcoming the blocks, the fear. And, you know, I went into wellness because I was first healing my own wellness issues and bloating and anxiety and constipation. So I can’t help but wonder, Margie, with all this.

passion around this subject on your own journey, you know, because I always feel like, the wounded healer, like we’re drawn to write about, to focus on as experts, something that was really potent in their own lives.

Margie Warrell (28:48.258)
Yeah, yeah I have I have several threads of my own woundedness and my own healing Kimberly and they all play a role and there’s some level of they’re interwoven with each other. Perhaps one of the more significant formative struggles that I had and I call it a struggle

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (28:56.797)
Mm.

Margie Warrell (29:12.498)
It was with an eating disorder that I developed. I mean I had would have had disordered eating before it but I developed a bona fide case of bulimia when I was 13. And I mean I haven’t written about this extensively in this book but not because I don’t want to because I’ve written about it in previous places but

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:15.475)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:25.362)
Mmm.

Margie Warrell (29:34.97)
but I was just desperate to be skinny and I wasn’t. I grew up on a dairy farm, big sister of seven kids with like lots of high-fat food and not a lot of just for various reasons you know and we’re all scouts there was a scarcity mentality as well and I had bulimia right through my teens.

And in my early 20s, when I was at university, I finally saw a psychologist and I felt like I’d been sort of got over it. I say got over it, like I think I’m good now. And then backpacked around the world for a couple of years like you did in my early 20s after I graduated and then got back to Australia and then ended up moving to Papua New Guinea as a 26 year old. And

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:07.548)
Yeah.

Margie Warrell (30:21.964)
bulimia flared up again and I was so down on myself because I thought I was over, like I say over it, I’m like I thought I’d done the work, I thought yeah that’s behind me but it clearly wasn’t the stress of being in what was the most dangerous country outside of a war zone at the time. I just got married, my husband was traveling all week every week plus doing an MBA and I just

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:24.285)
Mmm.

Margie Warrell (30:47.402)
obviously the circumstances triggered that kind of emotional eating again and I went back into this cycle that I felt so much shame around.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:57.554)
Hmm.

Margie Warrell (30:58.814)
and I didn’t like to tell anyone because I just felt like most people are going to go that’s gross at that point I mean this is quite a long time ago this is in my yeah yeah my 20s as I said so several decades ago and I met a girl and she introduced me to a 12-step program.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (31:18.643)
Hmmmm

Margie Warrell (31:19.38)
and was the 12 steps for overeaters anonymous. Now I was never, I was always extremely high functioning and looking at me no one would have ever known. I was never really slim and I was never really big. I was just kind of a little bit like I am today. But that took me on this spiritual healing journey. The 12 step program, I can just speak so highly to that having gone through it for my relationship with food and

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (31:39.837)
Thanks.

Margie Warrell (31:48.783)
and body image but it really provided incredible journey of healing for me that by the grace of God I have was freed from that cycle.

But in the midst of all of that as well, I was living in Papua New Guinea, I found myself confident of a lot of people. And I had friends, single girlfriends that were somewhat, one friend, Kate, was cutting herself a lot and having affairs with all these married men. And I was trying to help her and my toolbox was really limited. And I ended up in an armed robbery. And I was 19 weeks pregnant, just a couple of years in, and I lost that baby 10 days after the armed robbery, which was a pretty violent armed robbery. It was pretty scary.

all I was nineteen weeks. Nineteen weeks. And so those experiences cuz they all happened in a window of time. but they were such a powerful catalyst for growth that I don’t know I would ever have had.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:29.926)
my God, how far along were you? you were 10 weeks.

Margie Warrell (32:51.742)
So I was already in the backdrop of doing this work on myself and then I’m pregnant and then I’m in this robbery and then I lose it and I just remember doing a lot of journaling in the aftermath of that Kimberly. Everyone felt sorry for me because everyone knew how excited I was with my husband to have a baby and everyone heard I was in the robbery and then everyone heard 10 days later I’d lost this baby and

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (33:01.267)
you

Margie Warrell (33:16.31)
I felt sorry for me and honestly I felt super shocked. I couldn’t believe this happened to me. It just never occurred one that I’d even have a miscarriage. But these two pretty traumatic events in close succession. But in the aftermath of that as I journaled, as I raged at God, like how could this happen to me? You know, it’s not fair. I got so much clarity that I did not want to be seen as a victim. I didn’t want to see myself as a victim.

and I wanted to find something good to come out of this really awful experience and I’d already been really thinking about do I really want to stay working in corporate marketing. I was working in corporate marketing selling everything from cigarettes and beer to oil to rice to… so it wasn’t feeding my soul and I went back and started doing psychology part-time which took me on the path that has led to me to speaking to you today.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (33:50.131)
Mmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:10.759)
Wow.

Margie Warrell (34:14.574)
But then over the following 10 years, I have a younger brother. said I was a big sister of seven. One of my youngest, well my youngest brother, Peter, schizophrenia, though we didn’t recognize that at the time. But he went through a truly torturous and harrowing and tragic journey of just losing his mind.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:25.874)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:32.531)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:38.321)
Mmm.

Margie Warrell (34:38.602)
until eventually when he was 31, I was 41, he took his life. And two years before that my oldest brother Frank, I’m second to seven, he was in an awful motorbike accident that left him with paraplegia. And I, just going through that too, my mother had deep depression. So that plus numerous other experiences that friend Kate I mentioned, she took her life.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:45.766)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:56.113)
Ugh.

Margie Warrell (35:08.62)
There’s just numerous experiences that were really hard and heartbreaking. And all of them obviously jolted me and jolted my heart.

And yet I, for all of them, just decided how do I live my life in a way that honours the life that other people didn’t get to live? And where do I let my fear of falling short, failing, not being good enough, not being educated enough, not being smart enough, funny enough, you’ve just filled it in. I’ve had the thought of not being enough of it. Where do I give power away to that?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:28.145)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:42.355)
you

Margie Warrell (35:47.03)
and keep that from having me live the biggest, bravest, boldest life that I can possibly live. And it’s what fueled me to have then four children in five years. I went on and had four beautiful, healthy children. Started coaching business when my fourth child was six months old. Right. My first book when I had four kids under seven, because I was just like, we get one shot at life. And so often we let our fear and our doubt and our victim stories and our

you know, self-limiting beliefs just sit there in the driver’s seat and so all of those things, you know, all intersect and interweave together in some way that sort of just gives me this fire in the belly to just show up again and again and again and let me tell you, Timberley, I’ve had lots of times where things haven’t gone the way I’d like.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:31.762)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:39.399)
Well, I mean, Kate, thank you. mean, just Margie, was thinking of your friend Kate who killed herself and all the experiences you’ve been through. And the reason I asked you this is because it’s so obvious. Thank you for sharing all that. It’s so obvious that there is the fire that’s driving you and everything that you’ve been through has, you’ve made that decision to spread light and love and to help others. And I could tell.

I read a lot of books, I get sent a lot of books. I could tell that there’s a real authenticity in what you’re doing in the way that you write. And also the second we came on the podcast and we were chatting, I could just tell there was no masks, know, which I really appreciate with someone. I think because of the trauma, whatever traumas I’ve been through in my heart, that’s one thing I can tell. I have a superpower, maybe call it hypervigilance or whatever, but I can really tell when someone’s quite authentic. And so…

I just want to say thank you for sharing all of that and also acknowledge how beautiful it is that your life work and your purpose or part of your purpose has been to really use, transmute this pain, alchemize it and really in a way to teach these lessons and share all this wisdom. It’s really amazing.

Margie Warrell (38:00.014)
Well, you know yourself, because…

without, well, I don’t know you very well, Kimberly. I also am really good at reading hearts. And I could pick up the same thing when we started speaking. absolutely. And I also know that so that I mean, it is part of the human condition we want to live. We all want to live a meaningful life. We want to feel a richness of connection with other human beings. And sometimes those early childhood wounds

you know, erect, we erect these walls around our heart and we come up with these stories that make us feel whether feel like that we’re less than others or we’re better than others. Either way, it’s it’s it’s a lie. But but what is it that that gives us the greatest sense of reward is when we’re using our gifts but also using our struggles and our pains in ways that aren’t just about us. But yeah, that’s that’s what makes life truly rich and wealthy.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:57.821)
Great.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (39:02.867)
Well, and so you’re writing all this, these steps to braver action, these quotes, it’s coming from your experience. It’s coming from a heart that’s lived and been through a lot of challenges and a lot of tough moments. And there’s a depth that you can’t write about or share if you haven’t been through that grit. So, I mean, I can’t tell you enough, Margie, how much I really appreciate.

your honesty. And I love how the book is set up with these. You guys are watching this on the YouTube channel, it calls out these really potent quotes, which I really resonated with. And I feel like these are really good journaling prompts in and of themselves is to consider the quote and consider maybe where there’s a gap or something in your life and just everything about the book. So thank you, Margie. And thank you for sharing, again, your heart, your wisdom.

Margie Warrell (39:57.838)
Thank you.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:04.061)
Tell us where we can get your book and where we can learn more about your coaching and your other work as well.

Margie Warrell (40:10.828)
Yeah, thank you, thank you.

I’m happy to say my book is available wherever good books are sold. It may not be in every bookstore, though that obviously is my highest intention, but it is certainly available on Amazon and you can get it through Barnes and Noble and anywhere, your local independent bookstore. I also did an audio version of it that people often ask me, is it an on audio? Yes, it is. Obviously it’s on e-reader too. And I have a courage quiz if you wanted to go over to my website, margieworl.com.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:22.801)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:35.347)
You

Margie Warrell (40:43.472)
You can take that quiz that I think can be really helpful. I encourage people to take it at the start of reading the book because sometimes we’re not aware of where there’s a gap in our own lives. It’s not obvious to us and so I want people to kind of read it mindful of, you know what, I’m not always asking for what I really want or I dilute down, you know, the value that I have to bring because I don’t want to seem like I’m

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:57.361)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (41:11.357)
Yes.

Margie Warrell (41:13.392)
or fill in the blanks. So I encourage people to take that quiz as well.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (41:20.883)
Well, we will link to Margie’s book directly, her quiz and all her information on our show notes at mysaluna.com as well as articles and other podcasts and offerings I think you would enjoy. Thank you again, Margie, so much. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Check out, get your own copy once again or listen to the book, The Courage Gap, Five Steps to Braver Action.

We’ll be back here in a few days for our next show. And remember the top of every month on Thursday, we have our power hour show. If you’re missing our Thursday podcast, we have that one information packed show for the month ahead. I’ll see you on social as well at underscore Kimberly Snyder. Till next time, wishing you sending you so much love and take great care of yourself.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:11.931)
Yay!