Handling Anxiety & Conflict in Kids (and Humans!) with Connection with NYT Bestselling Author Alyssa Blask Campbell [Episode 1013]

This Week’s Episode Special Guest: Alyssa Trask Campbell

Summary:

In this episode, Kimberly and Alyssa Black Campbell discuss her journey as a parenting expert and author, focusing on the emotional landscape of parenting. She emphasizes the importance of understanding emotions, connection, and the needs behind children’s behaviors. The discussion covers various topics including self-regulation, co-regulation, the significance of creating safe spaces for communication, and navigating challenges like lying and bullying. Alyssa shares insights from her personal experiences and highlights the role of neuroscience in understanding children’s emotional needs.

About Alyssa Blask Campbell

Alyssa Blask Campbell is CEO of Seed & Sew, a platform that offers consultations and courses on emotional intelligence, as well as creating a modern parenting village. She has a master’s degree in early childhood education and is a leading expert in emotional development and travels the globe speaking on the topic. Her first book, Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, published in October 2023 from HarperCollins. Follow @seed.and.sew.

Guest Resources:

Website: Seed & Sew

Book: Big Kids, Bigger Feelings: Navigating Defiance, Meltdowns, Anxiety to Raise Confident, Connected Kids

Episode Sponsors:

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Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Parenting and Emotions
02:48 Understanding Emotions in Parenting
06:01 The Role of Connection in Parenting
08:50 Identifying Needs Behind Behaviors
12:09 Navigating Punishment and Connection
14:48 The Importance of Self-Regulation
17:51 Co-Regulation and Emotional Intelligence
21:09 Addressing Lying and Trust
23:47 Creating a Safe Space for Sharing
27:00 Understanding Fear and Vulnerability
29:45 The Impact of Trauma on Parenting
32:59 Conclusion and Resources

[RESOURCES / INFORMATION]

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KIMBERLY’S BOOKS

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast, which is all about heart-led living and wellness. When we awaken the power of our hearts and let that guide us through our daily choices and decisions, through our four cornerstones, food, body, emotional well-being, and spiritual growth, we will experience the most incredible results and create more vitality, health, strength, peace, abundance, and love in our lives.

I am your host, Kimberly Snyder, New York Times bestselling author, founder of Solluna, creator of the research-based Heart Aligned Meditation, wellness expert, nutritionist, and international speaker. I am passionate about supporting you on your unique heart and wellness journey. For more information on todays show please go to mysolluna.com for show notes and links. Let’s get started.

Speaker 1 (01:29.13)
So thank you so much for being here with us today and congrats on your new book. This is your second one.

Speaker 2 (01:30.73)

Yeah, yeah, my first one, Tiny Human’s Big Emotions came out in 2023. I was like 32 weeks pregnant when that one published, was a whirlwind. Wow. Yeah, that one hit the New York Times bestseller list, which was exciting. Yeah. And then a few weeks after it published, was doing well. Our editor reached out and was like, Alyssa, will you write another book?

I was like, actually, I just need a nap. I’m so tired. And so I turned to Rachel, who I’ve worked with, had the privilege of working with now for seven years. And she works with me at my company. And I asked her she would write this bad boy with me. And she said, yeah. So we were able to do it.

Well, I think this is so great because many of us are parents in the community or are thinking about being parents in the future or even not. feel like parenting books help us understand ourselves. And I can say as a parent, there’s been this incredible experience of feeling like I’m reparenting myself. And most of us are not learned. You we don’t learn.

to handle emotions, have tools as you talk about in your book. And I went through this period of this, where it’s like, hmm, you know, it just felt a little sad and I had to process that. But I also think we’re given the, you know, the childhoods that were meant to be given. But I feel like this is, you know, this is big stuff we’re talking about here.

Yeah, people often say they like come for their kids, but they stay for themselves. That so much of this work. We say if you have a nervous system like this works for you. We are really just talking about neuroscience and what it’s like to be a human on planet Earth and be in relationship with other humans. And man, it’s doozy sometimes.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:55.63)
Yeah, and I like how you talk about upfront. It’s not about trying to shield ourselves or our children from hardships because you know my nine-year-old now I can see him being more self-conscious about what he wears to school and Then he told me that there was a child like in one of the older grades who kind of made fun of his dog man sure now he won’t wear it and it just brings up stuff and It’s a lot

like all the layers of kind of reliving what we’ve been through as parents.

100%. And I find for myself as a parent, there’s nothing harder than just watching your child experience something hard, like being made fun of, feeling left out, feeling that shame or embarrassment. And knowing that it’s not our job to take it away, but instead to be with them through those hard things to let them know that they can navigate this and survive it. It’s so hard.

to do in practice as a parent is allowing it.

Well, I’m not sure that all of us were even raised with parents that were aware that there was hardship. I wasn’t. I’m not just blaming my parents or anything. just I don’t think that’s how they were raised either. So I just know that there was a lot of things that I pushed down because I couldn’t handle them.

Speaker 1 (04:26.614)
And I think that’s ultimately why I turned to certain things like bulimia and eating disorders. I couldn’t digest life. And, you know, as adults, we continue to learn and grow and pass on, you know, more tools to our children.

Totally, and we’re not gonna heal all the things and that’s okay too. I think of my friend, Dr. Linietta Willis, she’s an intergenerational trauma therapist. And she talks about our legacy blessings and our legacy burdens. And our legacy blessings are those things that we wanna pass on, that we inherited and that we want to pass on to our children in the next gen.

Yeah

Speaker 1 (05:24.078)
Well, I love how, and we’ll get into some of the more specific tools you talk about, but there’s a underlying theme of connection, which is, you know, in my work with the heart and just being connected to self and always, even if we’re not perfect parents, if we can stay empathetic, we can be connected. Our children will really feel that.

100%. And when we’re talking about different topics in big kids in this book, we talk about a number of different topics, but you’re right, the through line is not it. The goal isn’t to say, Hey, say this script at this time, or say these exact words or do this exact thing. The through line for us is how do you maintain connection and just stay in relationship with each other and recognizing that

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:13.336)
Sometimes relationship is messy and hard and sometimes it feels good and easy and you’re not failing if you’re in conflict in relationship or you’re in the messy hard parts. That’s just a part of being in relationship with each other.

Right. Well, you know, as you say, these tiny humans and then middle childhood, there’s different things happening on in their brain and their prefrontal cortex and the way that they process information. So I want to ask you as a parent, you know, some real questions. And then of course, it will illustrate some of the information that you share in big kids, bigger, bigger feelings. either you or Rachel use an example where, obviously paraphrasing here, but I think it was one of the daughters.

was teasing the sibling. then the mama, which was you, Rachel, said, well, no screen time tomorrow, if you remember this. And I think as a parent, sometimes we see behaviors in our children. And in our family dynamic, our older son, who’s four years older than our younger son, who’s now five, sometimes he’ll take his choice because he can, and he’s bigger, or he’ll do things.

And as hard as a parent, like we don’t know. Sometimes you wanna say, because my kids don’t get screen time except on the weekends. So sometimes I’ll say something, well, next Saturday you’re not gonna get your 30 minutes of screen time. like you said, it’s punishment, give, take, but sometimes you don’t know what else to do.

Totally, yeah. Well, and that’s real and a part of just being a human on planet Earth too, that you’re not always gonna in the moment have the answers. So giving ourselves grace is so key here too. But in an ideal world, what we’re looking at is trying to identify, we get to be like a detective and see what’s the need that’s driving this behavior. So when your older son comes and takes that toy from his younger son, is it a need for connection?

Speaker 2 (08:08.768)
Is he really trying to connect or engage or get somebody’s attention, which is a connection?

You get so much attention though.

Some of our kids, it’s like a leaky cup. It can feel like a leaky cup for connection. I have a high connection seeker. My daughter’s a high connection seeker. And it can feel like there’s not enough connection in the world that will be enough for her. And my son is not a high connection seeker. It’s almost like it feels easier to fill his connection cup. But also for him, his sensory needs are more demanding than hers. we all just have our own little blueprint walking through this world.

But when we can look at what is the need driving the behavior and we break these down into two categories. We have sensory needs and we talk about the nervous system, the nine sensory systems which we can get into. But when we’re looking at that, we’re really looking at are they under stimulated or overstimulated? Are they hungry? Are they tired? Do they need to move their body? Do they need a break from stim? They need to chill.

Right, okay. That’s more easier to decode in a way.

Speaker 2 (09:11.822)
For a lot of us, we grew up in cultures where sensory needs were seen as needs. Food, water, movement, were seen as needs. And connection needs were often seen as wants. It was like attention-seeking behavior, and that was a negative thing. And it wasn’t seen as, you need attention, that you have this need for inclusion or belonging or knowing that you’re loved or worthy or valued. so for a lot of us, the connection needs can actually be quite triggering.

where it can feel like, my gosh, this kid’s so needy. They need so much. And that’s our own bias coming up into play and being able to recognize that is half the battle. And then really being able to see like, okay, this is a need for connection. And maybe I just spent a bunch of time connecting with this kiddo and maybe they’re a high connection needs kid. And so what are the outlets for that?

Great.

Speaker 2 (10:07.154)
And we give some examples in the book. And I was actually, was just at an event down in LA where we were, I was met with a group of a hundred moms and we were talking about exactly this. Like what are ways that we can help our kids? Like if I can’t give them more connection in this moment, I’m cooking dinner or I’m trying to do something. What are outlets for that? And we have things like journaling back and forth or being able to call a friend and chat with them on the phone or.

FaceTime a grandparent or a cousin or a friend or an aunt or uncle and find ways to have that outlet that’s not always directly from you as the parent or maybe even from the sibling who might have lower connection needs and kind of needs a break to be by themselves for a little bit.

Right. Okay. So would you say as a parenting expert, Alyssa, punishment or taking things away doesn’t really work?

It just doesn’t solve the problem. What we’re going to do is we’re responding to the behavior on the surface. As long as we’re not meeting that need, you’re going to keep seeing new behaviors pop up because the need doesn’t go away. Right? In the same way that if you had like a baby who was hungry, you could bounce them and shush them all day long, but until you feed them, they’re not going to stop crying because they’re hungry. And if we have a child who needs to move their body or a child who needs to connect, we might

put out the fires on the surface, but until we meet that need, you’re just gonna see new ones pop up.

Speaker 1 (11:40.226)
Do you think that there’s some children in the way that they’re, you know, finding their way in the world? Like my older son is very mischievous, for example. Slime in my farm boots and he thinks it’s hilarious and he laughs like he’s always… Pranks like he loves it. And he just thinks it’s hilarious. And he gets so much attention. Again, like always, all the time. Do you feel like maybe some of this behavior is, you he wants his…

He would.

Speaker 2 (11:54.888)
Such a connection seeker.

Speaker 1 (12:09.57)
get a rise out of his brother and.

really from a place of connection. I want your attention. want you to notice me. brother. From anybody, right? Our high connection seekers, they’ll seek it out anywhere. we can help them identify that. I would say things like, that was a silly prank that you did, or that was silly joke. Did you want me to laugh? Were you trying to connect with me and help kind of bridge that awareness for them of when you’re doing these things, it’s because you want to connect.

That’s how we help build their awareness of what is my need. So then when they grow up in the world, they can move through the world knowing, when I feel this way, it’s because I’m hungry. When I feel that way, it’s because I’m tired. When I feel this way, I need to move my body. When I’m doing these things, it’s because I need to connect with somebody, because I need to feel that sense of connection and belong.

you

Speaker 1 (13:07.278)
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Speaker 1 (16:34.958)
I’ll just tell you a fear as a parent hearing this is, again, he gets so much attention. Again, everybody says it, right? I pay so much attention to E. So I guess my fear is if he’s still wanting more, what if when he grows up, he gets into unhealthy relationships or he just always has to be in a relationship because of that.

I want to reframe, like, you’re looking at intimate relationships. I see most often with our high connection seekers, they often actually seek it out even much outside of intimate relationships in friendships and in other spaces where, like, they might be the human who corrals kids to, like, all get together and play a game or they can often be, like, leaders in a pack where they… are so many outlets for connection that it’s not just an intimate one-to-one relationship.

There are so many avenues for it. And as they continue to grow, they’ll find places to connect in different ways to make that happen. And we can support them along the way. But these are humans who it’s a superpower and we need them in this world. My daughter is like this. She is a high connection seeker. She walks into a room of 100 people she doesn’t know. And she’s like, my God, yes, 100 new friends. She’s 20 months.

And she’s four?

my gosh. and do you think that correlates with being an extrovert? Yeah, a lot of way.

Speaker 2 (18:00.494)
A lot of our high connection seeking kiddos are also extroverted. You a little bit have to be because it’s going to fill that cup, right? That like when you’re in that, although I just had a kid pop into my head who I when I was teaching and he was five years old and he had high connection needs, but he was an introvert and he would seek out more one to one like peer connection connection for me as a teacher. But he would look forward in those kind of smaller groups.

activities and avenues, but he would glom on to like other kids and just want to be near them and want to talk to them and want to share and yada yada. But it was like he had one or two good friends in each space. He wasn’t like, I want to hang out with everyone in the class.

Well, so there’s natural extroverts, introverts, connectors, like you said. How do you think this relates to, and you know, this is sort of on a spiritual level and in yogic traditions, you talk about the true self and self connection, which is self-effulgence and fulfilling and being so connected to the love inside that you wanna share it with people, but you’re not needing it.

Yeah, I think that we’re, I’m going to pull in the like neuroscience and too. When we’re looking at this, I want to recognize that there’s not a human on the planet where there’s a one size fits all. Right? all of us, our nervous systems operate differently in the way that we integrate stimuli, the way that we integrate the world around us and make sense of it is different for all of us. And for some kids, they are their superpowers. I can noticing the details.

or they know if something moves in their environment. They can get really dysregulated by like piles or clutter or things like that because they’re super attuned to the visual stimuli in their space. Some humans who sound, they’re really aware of the sounds in their environment and they can get really overstimulated by sound, especially if there’s competing sounds happening. Some kids who notice the details of how clothing feels in a heightened way. It’s too itchy, it’s too tight, it’s too something.

Speaker 2 (20:02.378)
And I look at these as superpowers, that they’re really good at noticing, they’re very attuned to those senses. And there are some humans who aren’t as attuned, and for them, can, it then appears as though they can maybe be more easygoing or they can move through the world differently, because their brain isn’t so hyper-focused on like, my gosh, what is that noise? I can’t stop hearing that clicking sound in the background and kind of tuning into those things in different ways. And so when we’re looking at the

integration of all of that stimuli. We go through the nine senses in the book and outline it. But I think it’s really important in then saying like how you integrate them then determines how you show up in the world and what you need from the world around you based on how your nervous system is integrating that stimuli, because it’s going to find kind of homeostasis and regulation in different ways based on your unique nervous system. Does that make sense?

It does to me. It sounds a little complicated to explain to a child.

for sure. I’m going to break it down in different words to Yeah, to a kid. we this so the bulk of the work that we do at Seed is in school systems. I work in schools, elementary, middle schools, and then in childcare programs. And we teach teachers like how to talk to kids about this. How do you teach them about their nervous system? Totally. Well, there’s this idea of self-regulation even is something I think we need to really break down that

and self-regulation.

Speaker 2 (21:32.404)
You teach self-regulation through co-regulation and self-regulation isn’t one size fits all.

Wait, so say that again for a moment. mean co-regulation, you regulate yourself and then you’re in the space and then… You know, it’s like goosebumps. It’s almost like the science of heart coherence. Well, our hearts are giving off a magnetic field that’s 100 times stronger than the brain. So when we’re more emotionally calm, you talk about emotional intelligence and the more coherent, our heart rhythms are smooth and our…

borrowing your comms.

Speaker 2 (21:52.108)
Not anymore.

Speaker 1 (22:06.306)
Brains are nervous, everything’s in sync. People around you feel that. Totally. So as we calm ourselves, we can calm our children more. That’s right.

I think of it like the difference between a thermometer and a thermostat. A thermometer is just going to read the temperature of the room, you’re going to join it. A thermostat sets that temperature. And in order to set that temperature, you have to be mindful of your own regulation. So often we want kids to regulate for us. We want them to get calm for us when we can’t.

Right.

Yeah, I see parents who are literally screaming in public. Yeah. And they’re like, you calm down. We’re at the playground and I heard this, this mom didn’t know we were there. We were in the bathroom and she was like talking to her two girls and then me and my younger son came out and she was like embarrassed. I mean, I felt bad for her because obviously she didn’t want, no one wants to be that person.

Nobody wants to be in that state where their body feels so out of control that you’re like, need the humans around me to change their behavior so I can feel in control. And so so much, that’s why I said so many folks, they come for the kids, but stay for themselves that we dive into what is, how does your nervous system work? What does it look like to learn how to build your own self-awareness and self-regulation so that we can then navigate co-regulation with our kids so that

Speaker 2 (23:28.098)
when our kid comes in and they roll their eyes and they slam the door and they give a sass or the sarcasm or whatever, that we can be the calm force in that moment. And it doesn’t mean I don’t hold boundaries. It doesn’t mean that any behavior is allowed. It does mean that I am really working on, okay, how do I calm my body so that I can respond with intention instead of react from a place of dysregulation.

So let’s play this out for any mamas out there who have teenagers or getting close to teenagers, not there yet. But although I’ve seen some behavior from my nine-year-old defiance and disrespect, which you talk about in the book. Let’s say your teenager comes home and you say, or, hey, I’ll be the teenager.

Well, it seems like something happened at school today.

I’m fine.

Yeah, I am here if you want to chat. Would you like space or do you want to talk about?

Speaker 1 (24:30.862)
Why are you so annoying? Why are you always trying to say that to me?

I love you so much. I’m going to be cooking in the kitchen. If you want to come touch base, that’s where I’ll be

That’s not a fun. Okay. Let’s do another one. Yeah. I mean, so it’s a center. You’re the center and you’re not trying to grab. Okay. I love it.

I’m not taking the bait. Right? Like the bait is all, that would be me joining their energy. And I’m saying like, I’ve got you. I’m still calm in your storm.

Okay, let’s do this one, which I have experienced where my son will call me by my first name and I don’t like it. Sure. Okay, so I’ll be the teenager tween, okay? Yeah. Comes home from school. Hey, Alyssa.

Speaker 2 (25:15.544)
Hey, did you want my attention? I heard you use my first name.

Alisha?

Yeah, it does sound like you want my attention. I’m here if you want to chat or hang.

Lyssa, Lyssa!

Yeah, come on in,

Speaker 1 (25:30.51)
So there’s no, please call me Momma. Please don’t.

Outside the moment, sure. When we’re in a regulated state, yes.

So let’s say 10 minutes later he stops doing it, then what happens?

Then when I’m like saddled up, maybe we’re having a snack together after school or whatever, I’m sitting next to him. I’m going say, hey, when you came home and you wanted my attention and you were saying my name, I think you were doing it to try and get me to notice you in a way that you know is often frustrating for me. Instead of saying my name, you can just say, mom, I want to chat or mom, something happened at school or I don’t want to talk about it, but something happened. And.

Mmm.

Speaker 2 (26:08.012)
giving them what they can do. We’re so good at telling them what they can’t do, what we don’t want. But give them what they can do. What is an appropriate outlet for them to communicate with you if something’s coming up for them?

Yeah, I mean, you talk about also lying in book and how, you know, still want to create safety and empathy.

Lying is a doozy because it feels like a breach of trust between us. And we often take lying personally. And the reality is that every human on the planet lies sometimes. And that like, if you are in a crowded elevator and somebody farts, they’re going to be like, yeah, not me. For sure, not me. Like everybody all the time is like trying to pass things off.

Yeah, there’s layers. like, oh, I’ll just say this layer of lying versus my job or whatever.

Exactly. And so when we’re looking at lying, think first and foremost, recognizing it’s developmentally appropriate for kids to lie. They’re going to do it for a number of reasons. And we outline different reasons in the book why they would do it. Right. Some of those are for social safety, where they’re going to lie because they want to feel included in like they belong in something. Like if kids are all talking about a TV show and your kid doesn’t know it.

Speaker 2 (27:27.16)
They might be like, yeah, and they like lie and join in on the conversation and pretend that they know as an effort to feel included, you know, to feel like they belong. And sometimes they’re going to lie because they’re afraid of being in trouble. Sometimes they’re going to lie because they know they weren’t supposed to do that thing. And they were curious about it anyway, that they still were like, I know I’m not supposed to. And also I still am curious about what this is going to be like.

or I want to figure this out for myself. And that’s a part of being a human on Planet Earth. Yeah. And like, they also might be nervous about disappointing you. Maybe not that they would be in trouble, but that they know they’re not supposed to do this thing. And so they’re like, if I just lied and she didn’t find out, she wouldn’t feel disappointed. And they could avoid your disappointment.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:19.704)
So what do you do if you find out your child does lie?

Yeah, we got a few of those stories in the book. When we’re looking at this, I want to first let them know, hey bud, I love you. I also have lied in my life. You’re not in trouble. I’m not mad at you. And here’s why this was the rule. This is the rule because it’s my job to keep you safe. And this is a way that this keeps you safe. Is there anything else you’re curious about? Or anything else you wanna know? We recently, my son is on the younger end. He’s four and a half, but.

he was lying about something and we found out he was lying about it and I said something to him and I was like, do you have any questions? He was like, yeah, why is that a rule? And I broke it down for him and he was like, I don’t think that that should be a rule. I was like, okay. And we got to like have this dance and then I was like, okay, it sounds like you’re curious about exploring this.

Mmm

Speaker 2 (29:15.242)
instead of doing it in this way that’s not safe for you, would you like me to find ways that you can explore this in a way that is safe?” And he was like, yeah. And so then we brainstormed some of those because the reality was like, he was still curious and he was going to go and be a curious human on planet earth. I wanted to give him safe outlets for his curiosity.

I love how you use that word safe and talking about nervous systems because sometimes we didn’t always feel safe to share with our parents. you always hear about teenagers and just as children grow older, they’re having this whole separate world and then they come home school and they might say, fine. I’m not at that point yet, but I’m very wanting to know about the next stage, which I think is great. Your book spans different age groups of children.

So let’s say you do want your child to open up to you more and obviously you don’t want to push and prod, but do you think it’s really, again, the attention turns back on the parent to be a safe place where they would even want to speak.

100%. I mean, they’re not going to share with you if they feel like they’re going to be in trouble or judged. Exactly. Or if they are worried about it spiking your anxiety or you having a hard time with what they share, if they don’t know that you have tools for your own regulation, then it’s a risk for them to potentially dysregulate you. for example, if they would

share something and you would be anxious about it. Maybe they’re going to share about something that happened at school where they felt left out. Maybe the dog man shirt situation. If he was nervous that you would have such a hard time with that, that you wouldn’t be able to come and maybe you’d be calling that kid’s parent and try and figure this out. And if he was nervous about that happening, he probably wouldn’t share with you. He has to know that you have feelings and have tools for those feelings.

Speaker 2 (31:12.238)
There’s a huge difference between kids knowing we have feelings and kids feeling responsible for our feelings. And so when we’re doing this work, it’s so crucial that we name our feelings to kids, that we say things like, I’m really overwhelmed right now. I cannot answer that question in this moment. I am going to pop in my AirPods and listen to a song while I finish cooking dinner. And then I’ll answer more of these questions.

Right.

Speaker 1 (31:37.454)
Mmm, giving yourself space.

Letting them know like I have feelings, overwhelm, frustration, anger, embarrassment, et cetera. And here are tools I have for this when I can control the sound for myself as a sound sensitive human. It’s very regulating. And so I’ll wear earplugs sometimes or I will pop in my AirPods and just listen to a song where I get to control it and then come back to them. And they know, both my kids reliably know at this point that

Yeah

Speaker 2 (32:06.218)
I will step away and choose something to listen to or pop in my earplugs to give my nervous system a break. And then I can return to them in a kinder way that if I continue to power through, that’s when you get a dysregulated mom for me. That’s what my kids get that.

Right, and that never feels good.

No, not at all. And then I end up reacting to something and then we’re in that spiral. Exactly. And so when we’re looking at this, it’s so huge that our kids know that we have feelings and we have tools for those hard feelings so that we can be their safe space. Because right now it might be the dog man shirt and down the road, it could be something bigger and heavier and harder. And if they’re nervous about

our reaction and our ability to navigate those feelings, then they can’t come to us.

Well, this is a tricky one, right? Because back to the dog man. is, it’s a small school. And so this happened when he was in third and I think the older kid was in fifth or sixth, like almost middle school. And he told me, and he also wanted me to promise I wouldn’t do anything about it. And I want to be that safe place. But part of me wanted to find out if there was bullying of younger kids.

Speaker 2 (33:26.382)
Sure, sure, Well, when we break down in the book, the difference between like rude, mean and bullying behavior. And I think what’s so key, really being able, I love that he said, I don’t want you to do anything about this. One of my favorite things to ask kids when they do open up to us is, do you just want to share or do you want to figure out how to solve this? Like, are you looking to just vent? Because sometimes that’s exactly it. They just need to offload their stuff.

That’s yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:54.296)
But they don’t want you to do anything to try and. as a mom, always want to.

If it’s a mom, you’re like…

Yeah, so what I do? I’m like, this sounds borderline bullying.

That’s why we break down what the differences are in here of mean, rude, and bullying behavior, because we as parents will immediately go into that, like, you’re not going to be doing this to my kid. And I don’t want it to escalate. I don’t want it to get to the point of bullying, all those sorts of things. A hundred percent. Correct. And when we look at this, what’s so key is recognizing

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:35.317)
when is it time to give them skills for self-advocacy? And when is it time for us to advocate for them? And that’s in that whole bullying chapter. go through that. then when we’re looking at advocacy, what advocacy actually yields the greatest long-term results? And what we know to be true there is that the bully, whoever’s doing the bullying, has a need driving their behavior.

And the greatest long-term results come when we can meet that need. So is this a kid who needs to feel connected, who maybe has learned that it’s power and control that you’re looking for in this world? A lot of our kids learn that when we power over them and we control them and we consistently send that message that, when you get to be older and you grow up, this is what you’re looking for, it’s power and control. Then of course somebody’s going to…

seek out opportunities to have power and control. Right. And so we get to look at what’s the need driving that other child’s behavior. And we get to advocate for that need to be met if we really want to see bullying stop.

Right, well I guess as far as it relates to our child, because we’re not a teacher in the school and that parent and that child is on their own journey, then the tools you talk in that, because I never want my son to not come to me.

Yeah. And in order for them to, we have to respect the times where they say like, I don’t want you to do anything about this. What he’s saying is, I just needed to share about this. I right now don’t feel unsafe in school or in the world. I right now feel scared, sad, disappointed, lonely, embarrassed, probably is a real big one that comes up in elementary school.

Speaker 2 (36:29.734)
And when we’re looking at that, we’re saying like, yeah, it’s not our job to make them never feel those things. It’s our job to let them know that all of those feelings are things they’ll feel sometimes and that they can survive and navigate and have tools to navigate. And that part sucks in parenting.

It’s like when we don’t feel our feelings. When we’re not taught to feel feelings, they can get pushed down and traumas created and patterns and maladaptive coping skills. So we want to teach our children to feel and digest these emotions and that.

Because they’re going to feel them anyway, just like we do feel those feelings. Just if we haven’t learned how to be with those feelings without being consumed by those feelings, that is where the difference lies. That when we know how to be with sadness, be with grief, be with embarrassment without being consumed by it, it’s a game changer. Because we know it won’t last for a long time. We know that

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:28.835)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:33.002)
It’s okay for me to feel sad and cry and be in this emotion because it won’t consume me.

Right, exactly, and it does eventually move through that energy. all do. Energy and motion, these emotions. Yeah.

Yeah. And you talked about that like energy connection piece. One of the senses we talk about is our neuroceptive sense. And that is our energy reader sense. I called our Spidey sense. It the energy of the room. And there are some kids where like that is really heightened for them. They are really good energy readers. I had a kid when I was teaching who would say, Miss Alyssa, I can’t talk to you with that face on. And it was when

yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:15.232)
my words didn’t match my tone, my energy, right? That like, if I was feeling frustrated in the moment, but I was like trying to say the right words, he read through all that BS where he was like, no, I know how you’re feeling. I can see it all over your face. Your words aren’t matching your energy.

Yeah, we sense. Yes. What is that heart coherence? Energy doesn’t lie. That’s right. It’s not about what you say.

Correct. some kids are way more attuned to that than other kids. Our neuroceptive sensitive kids, they are so attuned to that energy in the space. And for them, it can feel really dysregulating if we aren’t naming the feeling that we’re experiencing, because they’re feeling that we’re having a hard time. They’re feeling the feeling. But we’re saying, it’s like, if I say, are you? you’re like, yeah, I’m fine. I I know you’re not fine.

Yeah, it doesn’t line up. It doesn’t feel good. Correct. It isn’t authentic.

Exactly, exactly. And our energy readers, are so attuned to that in a heightened way. And so it’s so important for our neuroceptive sensitive kids that the way that we feel is something that we say and that we own the regulation for.

Speaker 1 (39:31.458)
Wow, wow, and that’s not something that you can necessarily teach.

the neuroceptive sensitivity. We’re born with the nervous system we have with the exception of two of our sensory systems. Our vestibular system can change, so that is responsible for your movement and balance. keeps you upright and you can get vertigo, motion sickness. Your vestibular system changes over time. It’s why elderly folks are more likely to fall. Your vestibular system starts to go and get more sensitive.

I swear.

Speaker 2 (40:07.23)
the neuroceptive sense can change with trauma. So it’ll start to read energy in that spidey sense high ends of like, am I safe here?

Right, detects threat. Correct. So did you come into this work, Alyssa, before you became a parent?

I did. Yeah, I did all my research in emotional intelligence before I became a parent. was teaching at the time.

And were you drawn to it from your own childhood experiences? I mean, I think it’s probably why we’re drawn to anything we’re teaching or talking about is, you

Good question. Probably,

Speaker 2 (40:42.38)
Yeah, I found myself teaching and with a master’s degree in teaching and realized I’m supposed to be teaching these kids things I didn’t learn in my own childhood. I have really awesome parents who did the best they could with the tools they have and I’m one of five kids. yeah, wild. And I experienced some pretty intense trauma when I was a teenager that I had no

How?

Speaker 2 (41:09.934)
tools to navigate and I was just kind of treading water to stay afloat. And then as I came into teaching and I was like, oh my gosh, I’m supposed to be teaching kids all about their emotions. And I didn’t get this growing up. You know, I didn’t grow up in like an emotionally intelligent household where feelings were welcome. Exactly. And so they, I feel like that really sparked me going down the path. And then I just became really obsessed with neuroscience.

You know, what’s interesting is with trauma, know Bessel van der Kolk talks about how one of the pervasive and detrimental kinds of trauma is neglect. know, here you’re talking a lot about self-awareness and if we’re not seen from our caregivers, it becomes very challenging, I think, for those children to grow up aware that feelings matter or that… there can be a lot of…

you know, learnings that need to happen later in life.

And I think of like the whole brainchild, Tina Payne-Briesson and Dan Siegel’s work on seen, safe, soothed and secure. Those four S’s are really, really key. And what’s tricky is just knowing that it’s not a one size fits all for those four S’s that each kid, how you help them feel seen in this world or how they feel soothed or secure, those are not necessarily the same from one to the other kid. And

I mean, my sensory sensitive son, for him to feel soothed, he wants me to be quiet and nearby, but not touching him. And my daughter is like, yes, validate all my emotions, talk to me. She would climb back inside the womb if she could. so much touch. And when we look at that, like understanding how their nervous systems work, she’s a sensory seeker and he’s sensory sensitive. And so for him, he gets so overwhelmed and flooded.

Speaker 2 (43:07.34)
that for him to feel soothed, he needs quiet and calm. And for her to feel soothed, she needs me to be talking and touching.

Right. What do think about kids that are scared to be alone?

think a lot of us are scared to be

Or they could sleep alone. Yeah

Well, I think sleeping alone, I think in general, it makes sense to be scared to be alone. I think about sleeping and how it’s the only time of day that we’re like, see you later. You’re going to go be in another room for 12 hours. We’re not going to be there with you. Like we don’t do that any other time of day. And I mean, my kids each sleep in their own room. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with it. And it makes sense to me when kids are like.

Speaker 2 (43:51.02)
I’m not jazzed about this, you know, and I do feel nervous about it. It’s vulnerable, inherently vulnerable to be asleep. Your defenses are down. True. And so to be asleep and feel like the protector for me isn’t in this room is vulnerable. It makes sense to feel nervous about that. And we, I don’t think it’s our job to make sure that they don’t feel scared. I think it’s our job if

if sleeping in a separate space or being in a separate space from each other is something that we’re going to do and navigate and feels important to us, I think it’s then our job to let them know what it feels like in their body when they’re scared and then what helps them feel safe.

Yeah, I ask partly again from my own personal, like I did not like sleeping alone growing up. And it’s also cultural. Until I was, you know, 14 and shared, and we kind of shared the bed with my auntie, like extended family. People do that in the Philippines. And we co-sleep now. But then I’ve also read this book about how, you know, mammals, we’re as humans, we’re still mammals and we’re like the only species that kicks our.

our baby’s out so early and I don’t know, we just like to cuddle. But then I think, I hope I’m not, you know, down the road. I feel like they’re so secure that hopefully one day when they grow up, they are okay. Totally. alone.

And I think it’s not, again, not one size fits all. Like my daughter loved co-sleeping and my son hated it. He doesn’t like touch and he doesn’t like that close proximity. He loves his own, my husband’s the same way actually, likes his own space. It’s so funny. We’ll do bedtime with him and I’ve been like, hey bud, do you want me to stay and rub your head or? And he’s like, you can go now. I’m good here. And that is truly what’s calming for him.

Speaker 1 (45:26.83)
Yeah, and I have girlfriends like that.

Speaker 1 (45:42.264)
Beautiful.

And my daughter’s like, please never leave, let’s touch forever. So really looking at like, who’s the kid in front of me and parenting that child is so key.

Well, Alyssa, I could talk to you forever. There’s so much amazing information that I really connected with in your book. Once again, big kids, bigger feelings. I love that it’s based on connection. And some parenting books, I people, you know, write about different things and there’s different angles, but it feels a little bit clinical to me. But this is really, I would say heart-based. Yes, science, lots of neuroscience, but also

connection, empathy, self-regulation, and it really, yeah, I think it’s very practical.

Thank you. Yeah, that’s the goal is like practical, actionable, and recognizing that we’re just humans on planet Earth trying to be in relationship with each other. So wild and that we’re all different and that makes it hard. And so we’re just trying to make that a little easier.

Speaker 1 (46:38.755)
On like a spinning ball. That is like such a crazy…

Speaker 1 (46:49.09)
So tell us, Alyssa, where we can find out more about your brand new book, which is just published, and more about your work.

Yeah. So Big Kids, Bigger Feelings is out now and that’s the like five to 12 year old range. And Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, it was already out as well and that’s the younger age range. And I read the audiobook for both if that’s your jam. And it’s wherever books are sold. We published with HarperCollins so you can snag it wherever.

Amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:21.504)
Our mothership, SeedAndSow, S-E-W dot org is where you can find all the things, how to bring this work to your child’s school, any other additional resources, anything like that.

Well, so we will link directly to Alyssa’s book, once again, Big Kids, Bigger Feelings and her work and her website and our show notes at mysaloon.com. It was easy to find as well as other articles and resources I think you would enjoy. Alyssa, once again, thank you so much. This was such an easy flow and I can tell your heart is really in this work. Thanks. And this is such an amazing resource for mamas. I’ll say it again from the beginning, mamas to be.

And any human was looking to understand themselves more.

Stay alert.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure to hang.

Speaker 1 (48:11.22)
Yes, for sure. And thank you love so much for tuning in. Once again, please go to the show notes, mysaloon.com and I will see you all back here in just a few days. Take great care and sending you all so much love.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:01.038)
Alyssa, thank you so much for being here with us today and congrats on your new book. I this is your second one. Yeah, yeah. My first one, Tiny Human’s Big Emotions came out in 2023. I was like 32 weeks pregnant when that one published, which was a whirlwind. Wow. Yeah, that one hit the New York Times bestseller list, which was exciting. Very exciting. Yeah. And then a few weeks after it published, was doing well. Our editor reached out was like, Alissa, will you write another book? And I was like, actually, I just need a nap. I’m so tired. And so I turned to Rachel, who I’ve worked with, had the privilege of working with now for seven years. And she works with me at my company and I asked her she would write this bad boy with me. And she said, yeah. So we were able to do it. Well, I think this is so great because many of us are parents in the community are thinking about being parents in the future, or even not. feel like parenting books help us understand ourselves. And I can say as a parent, there’s been this incredible experience of feeling like I’m re-parenting myself. And most of us are not, we don’t learn to handle emotions, to have tools as you talk about in your book. And I went through this period of, hmm.

You know, it just felt a little sad and I had to process that. But I also think we’re given the childhoods that were meant to be given. But I feel like this is big stuff we’re talking about here. Yeah, people often say they like come for their kids, but they stay for themselves. So much of this work. We say if you have a nervous system, like this works for you. We are really just talking about neuroscience and what it’s like.

to be a human on planet Earth and be in relationship with other humans. And man, it’s doozy sometimes. Yeah, and I like how you talk about upfront. It’s not about trying to shield ourselves or our children from hardships because my nine-year-old now, I can see him being more self-conscious about what he wears to school. And then he told me that there was a child in one of the older grades who kind of…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:19.02)
made fun of his dog man shirt, now he won’t wear it. It just brings up stuff. And it’s a lot, like all the layers of kind of reliving what we’ve been through as parents. 100%. And I find for myself as a parent, there’s nothing harder than just watching your child experience something hard, like being made fun of, feeling left out, feeling that shame or embarrassment. And knowing that

It’s not our job to take it away, but instead to be with them through those hard things to let them know that they can navigate this and survive it. It’s so hard to do in practice as a parent. Yes. means allowing it. Well, I’m not sure that all of us were even raised with parents that were aware that there was hardship. I know. I wasn’t.

And I’m not just blaming my parents or anything. don’t think that’s how they were raised either. So I just know that there was a lot of things that I pushed down because I couldn’t handle them. And I think that’s ultimately why I turned to certain things like bulimia and eating disorders. I couldn’t digest life. And as adults, we continue to learn and grow and pass on more tools to our children.

Totally, and we’re not gonna heal all the things and that’s okay too. Think of my friend, Dr. Linietta Willis. She’s an intergenerational trauma therapist. And she talks about our legacy blessings and our legacy burdens. And our legacy blessings are those things that we wanna pass on, that we inherited and that we want to pass on to our children in the next gen.

And our legacy burdens are those things that maybe we don’t want to pass on, but also knowing that we’re not going to heal all the burdens, that some of them will get passed on and that’s okay. Yeah. That we get to give our kids the tools and the outlets to continue to heal and process. Well, I love how, and we’ll get into some of the more specific tools you talk about, but there’s a underlying theme of connection.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (04:36.088)
which is my work with the heart and just being connected to self and always, even if we’re not perfect parents, if we can stay empathetic, we can be connected. Our children will really feel that. A hundred percent. And when we’re talking about different topics in Big Kids in this book, we talk about a number of different topics, but you’re right. The through line is not, the goal isn’t to say, hey, say this script at this time.

or say these exact words or do this exact thing. The through line for us is how do you maintain connection and just stay in relationship with each other and recognizing that sometimes relationship is messy and hard and sometimes it feels good and easy and you’re not failing if you’re in conflict in relationship or you’re in the messy hard parts that that’s just a part of being in relationship with each other. Right. Well,

You know, as you say, these tiny humans and then middle childhood, there’s different things happening on in their brain and their prefrontal cortex and the way that they process information. So I want to ask you as a parent, you know, some real questions. And then of course it will illustrate some of the information that you share in big kids, bigger, bigger feelings. So either you or Rachel use an example where, obviously paraphrasing here, but I think it was one of the daughters.

was teasing the sibling. then the mama, which was you, Rachel, said, well, no screen time tomorrow, if you remember this. And I think as a parent, sometimes we see behaviors in our children and in our family dynamic, our older son, who’s four years older than our younger son, who’s now five, sometimes he’ll take his choice because he can and he’s bigger or he’ll do things.

And it’s hard as a parent, like we don’t know. Sometimes you want to say, because my kids don’t get screen time except on the weekends. So sometimes I’ll say something, well, next Saturday you’re not going to get your 30 minutes of screen time. like you said, it’s punishment, give, take, but sometimes you don’t know what else to do. Totally. Yeah. Well, and that’s real and a part of just like being a human on planet earth too, that you’re not always going to in the moment have the answer. So giving ourselves grace is so key here too.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:57.058)
But in an ideal world, what we’re looking at is trying to identify, we get to be like a detective and see what’s the need that’s driving this behavior. So when your older son comes and takes that toy from his younger son, is it a need for connection? Is he really trying to connect or engage or get somebody’s attention, which is a connection? Well, he gets so much attention though. Some of our kids, it’s like a leaky cup. It can feel like a leaky cup for connection.

I have a high connection seeker. My daughter’s a high connection seeker and it can feel like there’s not enough connection in the world that will be enough for her. And my son is not a high connection seeker. It’s almost like it feels easier to fill his connection cup. But also for him, his sensory needs are more demanding than hers. So we all just have our own little blueprint walking through this world. But when we can look at what is the need driving the behavior, and we break these down into two categories. We have sensory needs.

And we talk about the nervous system, the nine sensory systems, which we can get into. But when we’re looking at that, we’re really looking at are they under stimulated or overstimulated? Are they hungry? Are they tired? Do they need to move their body? Do they need a break from stimuli? And they need to chill. that’s more easier to decode in a way. For a lot of us, we grew up in cultures where sensory needs were seen as needs. Food, water, movement, were seen as needs.

And connection needs were often seen as wants. It was like attention seeking behavior and that was a negative thing. And it wasn’t seen as, you need attention, that you have this need for inclusion or belonging or knowing that you’re loved or worthy or valued. And so for a lot of us, the connection needs can actually be quite triggering where it can feel like, my gosh, this kid’s so needy. They need so much. And that’s our own bias.

coming up into play and being able to recognize that is half the battle. And then really being able to see like, okay, this is a need for connection. And maybe I just spent a bunch of time connecting with this kiddo and maybe they’re a high connection needs kid. And so what are the outlets for that? And we give some examples in the book. And I was actually, was just at an event down in LA where we were.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:17.922)
I was met with a group of a hundred moms and we were talking about exactly this. Like what are ways that we can help our kids? Like if I can’t give them more connection in this moment, I’m cooking dinner or I’m trying to do something. What are outlets for that? And we have things like journaling back and forth or being able to call a friend and chat with them on the phone or FaceTime a grandparent or a cousin or a friend or an aunt or uncle and find ways to

have that outlet that’s not always directly from you as the parent or maybe even from the sibling who might have lower connection needs and kind of needs a break to be by themselves for a little bit. Okay. So would you say as a parenting expert, Alyssa, punishment or taking things away doesn’t really work? It just doesn’t solve the problem. What we’re going to do is we’re responding to the behavior on the surface as long as we’re not meeting that need.

you’re gonna keep seeing new behaviors pop up because the need doesn’t go away, right? In the same way that if you had like a baby who was hungry, you could bounce them and shush them all day long, but until you feed them, they’re not gonna stop crying because they’re hungry. And if we have a child who needs to move their body or a child who needs to connect, we might put out the of the fires on the surface, but until we meet that need, you’re just gonna see new ones pop up. Do you think that there’s some children

in the way that they’re finding their way in the world. Like my older son is very mischievous. He puts slime in my farm boots and he thinks it’s hilarious and he laughs. Like he’s always doing- a connection seeker. Pranks, like he loves it. And he just thinks it’s hilarious. And he gets so much attention. Again, like always, all the time. Do you feel like maybe some of this behavior is, you he wants his-

get a rise out of his brother and… All really from a place of connection. I want your attention. want you to notice From brother. From anybody, right? Our high connection seekers, they’ll seek it out anywhere. Wow. And we can help them identify that. I would say things like, that was a silly prank that you did, or that was silly joke. Did you want me to laugh? Were you trying to connect with me and help kind of bridge that awareness for them of when you’re doing these things, it’s because you want to connect.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (11:43.33)
That’s how we help build their awareness of what is my need. So then when they grow up in the world, they can move through the world knowing, when I feel this way, it’s because I’m hungry. When I feel that way, it’s because I’m tired. When I feel this way, I need to move my body. When I’m doing these things, it’s because I need to connect with somebody, because I need to feel that sense of connection and belonging. Well, can I just tell you, like, a fear as a parent hearing this is, again,

he gets so much attention. Again, everybody says it, right? Like I pay so much attention to E. So I guess my fear is if he’s still wanting more, what if when he grows up, he gets into unhealthy relationships or he just always has to be in a relationship because of that. I wanna reframe like you’re looking at intimate relationships. I see most often with our high connection seekers.

they often actually seek it out even much outside of intimate relationships in friendships and in other spaces where they might be the human who corrals kids to all get together and play a game, or they can often be leaders in a pack. There are so many outlets for connection that it’s not just an intimate one-to-one relationship. There are so many avenues for it.

as they continue to grow, they’ll find places to connect in different ways to make that happen. And we can support them along the way, but these are humans who it’s a superpower and we need them in this world. My daughter is like this, she is a high connection seeker. She walks into a room of a hundred people she doesn’t know and she’s like, oh my God, yes, a hundred new friends. And she’s four? She’s 20 months. Oh my gosh. and do you think that correlates with being an extrovert?

Yeah, a lot of our high connection seeking kiddos are also extroverted. You a little bit have to be because it’s gonna fill that cup, right? That like when you’re in that, although I just had a kid pop into my head when I was teaching and he was five years old and he had high connection needs, but he was an introvert and he would seek out more one-to-one like peer connection, connection for me as a teacher, but he would look forward in those kind of smaller groups.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:59.15)
activities and avenues, but he would glom on to like other kids and just want to be near them and want to talk to them and want to share and yada yada. But it was like he had one or two good friends in each space. He wasn’t like, I want to hang out with everyone in the class. Well, so there’s natural extroverts, introverts, connectors, like you said. How do think this relates to

And you this is sort of on a spiritual level and in yogic traditions, we talk about the true self and self connection, which is self effulgence and fulfilling and being so connected to the love inside that you want to share it with people, but you’re not needing it. Yeah. I think that we’re, I’m going to pull in the like neuroscience into this too. When we’re looking at this, I want to recognize that there’s not a human on the planet where there’s a one size fits all, right? For all of us, our nervous systems.

operate differently and the way that we integrate stimuli, the way that we integrate the world around us and make sense of it is different for all of us. And for some kids, they are, they’re superpowers like noticing the details, where they know if something moves in their environment. They can get really dysregulated by like piles or clutter or things like that because they’re super attuned to the visual stimuli in their space. Some humans who sound their

really aware of the sounds in their environment and they can get really overstimulated by sound, especially if there’s competing sounds happening. Some kids who notice the details of how clothing feels in a heightened way. It’s too itchy, it’s too tight, it’s too something. And I look at these as superpowers, that they’re really good at noticing, they’re very attuned to those senses. And there are some humans who aren’t as attuned and for them it can…

it then appears as though they can maybe be more easygoing or they can move through the world differently because their brain isn’t so hyper focused on like, my gosh, what is that noise? I can’t stop hearing that clicking sound in the background and kind of tuning into those things in different ways. And so when we’re looking at the integration of all of that stimuli, we go through the nine senses in the book and outline them. But I think it’s really important in then saying like,

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (16:11.736)
how you integrate them then determines how you show up in the world and what you need from the world around you based on how your nervous system is integrating that stimuli because it’s gonna find kind of homeostasis and regulation in different ways based on your unique nervous system. Does that make sense? It does to me. It sounds a little complicated to explain to a child. for sure. I’m gonna break it down in different words to a kid.

Yeah, to a kid. we this so the bulk of the work that we do at Seed is in school systems. Yeah. work in schools, elementary, middle schools, and then in child care programs. And we teach teachers like how to talk to kids about this. How do you teach them about their nervous system? Yeah, and self-regulation. Totally. Well, there’s this idea of self-regulation even is something I think we need to really break down that you teach self-regulation through co-regulation.

And self-regulation isn’t one size fits all. Wait, so say that again for a moment. You mean co-regulation. You regulate yourself and then you’re in the space and then… They’re borrowing your calm. Well, you know, it’s like got goosebumps. It’s almost like the science of heart coherence. little more. All our hearts are giving off a magnetic field that’s 100 times stronger than the brain.

So when we’re more emotionally calm, you talk about emotional intelligence and the more coherent our heart rhythms are smooth and our brains are nervous, everything’s in sync, people around you feel that. So as we calm ourselves, we can calm our children more. That’s right. I think of it like the difference between a thermometer and a thermostat. A thermometer is just going to read the temperature of the room, you’re going to join it.

A thermostat sets that temperature. And in order to set that temperature, you have to be mindful of your own regulation. So often we want kids to regulate for us. We want them to get calm for us when we can’t get for them. Yeah, I see parents who are literally screaming in public. And they’re like, you calm down. We were at the playground and I heard this, this mom didn’t know we were there. We were in the bathroom and she was like talking to her two girls and then…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:18.754)
Me and my younger son came out and she was like embarrassed. But it’s like, I mean, I felt bad for her because obviously she didn’t want, no one wants to be that person. Nobody, nobody wants to be in that state where their body feels so out of control that you’re like, I need the humans around me to change their behavior so I can feel in control. Right. Right. And so so much, that’s why it’s had so many folks, they come for the kids, but stay for themselves that we dive into what is, how does your nervous system work? What does it look like to learn?

how to build your own self-awareness and self-regulation so that we can then navigate co-regulation with our kids so that when our kid comes in and they roll their eyes and they slam the door and they give us the sass or the sarcasm or whatever, that we can be the calm force in that moment. And it doesn’t mean I don’t hold boundaries. It doesn’t mean that any behavior is allowed. It does mean that I am

really working on, how do I calm my body so that I can respond with intention instead of react from a place of dysregulation. So let’s play this out for any mamas out there who have teenagers or getting close to teenagers, not there yet, but although I’ve seen some behavior from my nine-year-old defiance and disrespect, which you talk about in the book, let’s say your teenager comes home and you say, or hey, I’ll be the teenager.

Whoa, it seems like something happened at school today. I’m fine. Yeah. I am here if you want to chat. Would you like space or do you want to talk about it? Why are you so annoying? Why are you always trying to say that to me? I love you so much. I’m going to be cooking in the kitchen. If you want to come touch base, that’s where I’ll be. That was sort of fun. Roll away.

Okay, let’s do another one. Yeah, I mean, so it’s a center. You’re the center and you’re not trying to grab. I’m not taking the bait. Okay, I love it. Right? Like the bait is all that would be me joining their energy. And I’m saying like, I’ve got you. I’m still calm in your storm. Okay, let’s do this one, which I have experienced where my son will call me by my first name and I don’t like it. Sure. Okay, so I’ll be the teenager tween. Okay, comes on from school. Hey, Alyssa.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:44.844)
Hey, did you want my attention? I heard you use my first name. Alyssa. Yeah, it does sound like you want my attention. I’m here if you want to chat or hang. Alyssa, Alyssa. Yeah, come on in, babe. So there’s no, please call me Mala. Please don’t say Outside the moment, sure. When we’re in a regulated state, yes. Okay, so let’s say 10 minutes later he stops doing it, then what happens?

Then when I’m like saddled up, maybe we’re having a snack together after school or whatever, I’m sitting next to him, I’m gonna say, hey, when you came home and you wanted my attention and you were saying my name, I think you were doing it to try and get me to notice you in a way that you know is often frustrating for me. Instead of saying my name, you can just say, mom, I wanna chat, or mom, something happened at school, or I don’t wanna talk about it, but something happened. And.

giving them what they can do. We’re so good at telling them what they can’t do, what we don’t want, but give them what they can do. What is an appropriate outlet for them to communicate with you if something’s coming up for them? Yeah, I mean, you talk about also lying in book and how, you know, still want to create safety and empathy. Yeah, lying’s a doozy because it feels like a breach of trust between us. And we often take lying personally.

And the reality is that every human on the planet lies sometimes. And that like, if you are in a crowded elevator and somebody farts, they’re gonna be like, yeah, not me. For sure not me. Like everybody all the time is like trying to pass things off. It’s social safety. Yeah, there’s layers. like, it’s just like this layer of lying versus lying is my job or whatever. Exactly. And so…

When we’re looking at lying, think first and foremost, recognizing it’s developmentally appropriate for kids to lie. They’re gonna do it for a number of reasons, and we outline different reasons in the book why they would do it. Some of those are for social safety, where they’re going to lie because they want to feel included in like they belong in something. Like if kids are all talking about a TV show and your kid doesn’t know it.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:56.462)
They might be like, yeah, and they like lie and join in on the conversation and pretend that they know as an effort to feel included, you know, to feel like they belong. And sometimes they’re gonna lie because they’re afraid of being in trouble. Sometimes they’re gonna lie because they know they weren’t supposed to do that thing and they were curious about it anyway. That they still were like, I know I’m not supposed to. And also,

I still am curious about what this is gonna be like, or I wanna figure this out for myself. And that’s a part of being a human I’m playing with her too. yeah. And like, they also might be nervous about disappointing you. Maybe not that they would be in trouble, but that they know they’re not supposed to do this thing. And so they’re like, oh, if I just lied and she didn’t find out, she wouldn’t feel disappointed. And they could avoid your disappointment.

So what do do if you find out your child does lie? Yeah, we got a few of those stories in the book. When we’re looking at this, I want to first let them know, hey, bud, I love you. I also have lied in my life. You’re not in trouble. I’m not mad at you. And here’s why this was the rule. This is the rule because it’s my job to keep you safe. And this is a way that this keeps you safe. Is there anything else you’re curious about? Is anything else you want to know? We recently…

My son is on the younger end, he’s four and a half, but he was lying about something and we found out he was lying about it and I said something to him and I was like, do you have any questions? He was like, yeah, why is that a rule? And I broke it down for him and he was like, I don’t think that that should be a rule. And I was like, okay. And we got to like have this dance and then I was like, okay, it sounds like you’re curious about exploring this.

instead of doing it in this way that’s not safe for you, would you like me to find ways that you can explore this in a way that is safe?” And he was like, yeah. And so then we brainstormed some of those because the reality was like, he was still curious and he was gonna go and be a curious human on planet earth. I wanted to give him safe outlets for his curiosity. I love how you use that word safe and talking about nervous systems because sometimes we didn’t always feel safe.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (25:12.558)
Totally. To share with our parents. And you always hear about, know, teenagers and, just as children grow older, they’re having this whole separate world and then they come from school and they might say, you know, fine. I’m not at that point yet, but I’m very, you know, wanting to know about the next stage, which I think is great. Your book spans different age groups of children. So let’s say you do want your child to open up to you more. And obviously you don’t want to push and…

but do you think it’s really, again, the attention turns back on the parent to be a safe place where they would even want to speak? A hundred percent. I mean, they’re not going to share with you if they feel like they’re going to be in trouble or be shamed. Or if they are worried about it spiking your anxiety or you having a hard time with what they share, if they don’t know that you have tools for your own regulation, then it’s a risk for them to potentially dysregulate you.

So for example, if they would share something and you would be anxious about it, maybe they’re gonna share about something that happened at school where they felt left out, maybe the dog man shirt situation. If he was nervous that you would have such a hard time with that, that you wouldn’t be able to come and maybe you’d be calling that kid’s parent and trying to figure this out. And if he was nervous about that happening, he probably wouldn’t share with you. He has to know that you have feelings.

and have tools for those feelings. There’s a huge difference between kids knowing we have feelings and kids feeling responsible for our feelings. Right. And so when we’re doing this work, it’s so crucial that we name our feelings to kids, that we say things like, I’m really overwhelmed right now. I cannot answer that question in this moment. I am going to.

pop in my AirPods and listen to a song while I finish cooking dinner and then I’ll answer more of these questions. Giving yourself space. Correct, letting them know like I have feelings, overwhelm, frustration, anger, embarrassment, et cetera. And here are tools I have for this. When I can control the sound for myself as a sound sensitive human, it’s very regulating. Yes. And so I’ll wear earplugs sometimes or I will pop in my AirPods and just listen to a song where I get to control it.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:30.4)
and then come back to them. And they know, both my kids reliably know at this point, that I will step away and choose something to listen to or pop in my earplugs to give my nervous system a break. And then I can return to them in a kinder way. That if I continue to power through, that’s when you get a dysregulated mom for me. That’s when my kids get that. Right. And that never feels good. No, not at all. And then I end up reacting to something and then we’re in that spiral.

Exactly. And so when we’re looking at this, it’s so huge that our kids know that we have feelings and we have tools for those hard feelings so that we can be their safe space. Because right now it might be the dog man sure and down the road, it could be something bigger and heavier and harder. And if they’re nervous about our reaction and our ability to navigate those feelings, then they can’t come to us.

Well, this is a tricky one, right? Because back to the dog man. This is, it’s a small school. And so this happened when he was in third and I think the older kid was in fifth or sixth, like almost middle school. And he told me, and he also wanted me to promise I wouldn’t do anything about it. And I want to be that safe place. But part of me wanted to find out if there was bullying of younger kids.

Sure, sure, sure. Well, when we break down in the book the difference between like rude, mean, and bullying behavior. And I think what’s so key is really being able, I love that he said, I don’t want you to do anything about this. One of my favorite things to ask kids when they do open up to us is do you just want to share or do you want to figure out how to solve this? Like, are you looking to just vent? Because sometimes that’s exactly it. They just need to offload their stuff.

But they don’t want you to do anything to try what if as a mom you’re like, this Oh, as a mom I always want to fix it. Yeah, so what do I do? I’m like, this sounds borderline bullying. That’s why we break down what the differences are in here of mean, rude, and bullying behavior. Because we, as parents, will immediately go into that like-

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:48.238)
you’re not gonna be doing this to my kid. And I don’t want it to escalate, I don’t want it to get to the point of bullying, all those sorts of things. Very protective mama. 100%. Mama bear is out. Correct, correct. And when we look at this, what’s so key is recognizing when is it time to give them skills for self-advocacy? And when is it time for us to advocate for them?

And that’s in that whole bullying chapter. We go through that. then when we’re looking at advocacy, what advocacy actually yields the greatest long term results? And what we know to be true there is that the bully, whoever’s doing the bullying, has a need driving their behavior. And the greatest long term results come when we can meet that need. So is this a kid who needs to feel connected?

who maybe has learned that it’s power and control that you’re looking for in this world. A lot of our kids learn that when we power over them and we control them and we consistently send that message that, when you get to be older and you grow up, this is what you’re looking for, it’s power and control. Then of course, somebody is going to seek out opportunities to have power and control, And so we get to look at what’s the need driving that other child’s behavior.

And we get to advocate for that need to be met if we really want to see bullying stop. Right. Well, I guess as far as it relates to our child, because we’re not a teacher in the school and that parent and that child is on their own journey, then the tools you talk in that because I never want my son to not come to me. Correct. Yeah. And in order for them to, we have to respect the times where they say, like, I don’t want you to do anything about this. What he’s saying is

I just needed to share about this. I right now don’t feel unsafe in school or in the world. I right now feel scared, sad, disappointed, lonely, embarrassed probably is a real big one that comes up in elementary school. And when we’re looking at that, we’re saying like, yeah, it’s not our job to make them never feel those things. It’s our job to let them know that

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:07.682)
all of those feelings are things they’ll feel sometimes and that they can survive and navigate and have tools to navigate. And that part sucks in parenting. Well, it’s like when we don’t feel our feelings, when we’re not taught to feel feelings, they can get pushed down and traumas created and patterns and maladaptive coping skills. we want to teach our children to feel and digest these emotions and that… Because they’re going to them anyway.

Just like we do feel those feelings. Just if we haven’t learned how to be with those feelings without being consumed by those feelings, that is where the difference lies. That when we know how to be with sadness, be with grief, be with embarrassment without being consumed by it, it’s a game changer. Because we know it won’t last for a long time. We know that…

It’s OK for me to feel sad and cry and be in this emotion because it won’t consume me. Right. Exactly. And it does eventually move through that energy. Energy in motion, these emotions. Yeah. And you talked about that like energy connection piece. One of the senses we talk about is our neuroceptive sense. And that is our energy reader sense. I called our Spidey sense. It reads the energy of the room. yeah. And

There are some kids where like that is really heightened for them. They are really good energy readers I had a kid when I was teaching who would say miss Alyssa I can’t talk to you with that face on and it was when my words didn’t match my tone my energy right that like if I was feeling frustrated in the moment But I was like trying to say the right words. He read through all that BS where he was like no

I know how you’re feeling. I can see it all over your face. Your words aren’t matching your energy. Yeah, we sense. Yes. And it’s that heart coherence. Energy doesn’t lie. That’s right. It’s not about what you say. Correct. And some kids are way more attuned to that than other kids. Our neuroceptive sensitive kids, they are so attuned to that energy in the space. And for them, it can feel really dysregulating if…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:25.164)
we aren’t naming the feeling that we’re experiencing because they’re feeling that we’re having a hard time. They’re feeling the feeling, but we’re saying, it’s like if I say, are you? And you’re like, yeah, I’m fine. I’m like, I know you’re not fine. Yeah, it doesn’t line up. It doesn’t feel good. Correct. It doesn’t authentic. Exactly, exactly. And our energy readers, they are so attuned to that in a heightened way. And so it’s so important for our neuroceptive sensitive kids that

the way that we feel is something that we say and that we own the regulation for. Wow. Wow. And that’s not something that you can necessarily teach. The neuroceptive sensitivity. We’re born with the nervous system we have with the exception of two of our sensory systems. Our vestibular system can change so that is responsible for your movement and balance. keeps you upright and you can get like vertigo, motion sickness.

your vestibular system changes over time. It’s why elderly folks are more likely to fall. Your vestibular system starts to go and get more sensitive. And the neuroceptive sense can change with trauma. So it’ll start to read energy in that spidey sense high ends of like, ooh, am I safe here? Right, detects threat. Correct. So did you come into this work, Alyssa, before you became a parent? I did.

Yeah, I did all my research in emotional intelligence before I became a parent. was teaching at the time. And were you drawn to it from your own childhood experiences? Probably, yeah. I that’s probably why we’re drawn to anything we’re teaching or talking about. Yeah, I found myself teaching and with a master’s degree in teaching and realized I’m supposed to be teaching these kids things I didn’t.

learn in my own childhood. And I have really awesome parents who did the best they could with the tools they have. And I’m one of five kids. And yeah, wild. And I experienced some pretty intense trauma when I was a teenager that I had no tools to navigate. And I was just kind of treading water to stay afloat. And then as I came into teaching and I was like, my gosh, I’m supposed to be teaching kids all about their emotions.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:50.574)
And I didn’t get this growing up. I didn’t grow up in an emotionally intelligent household where feelings were welcome. exactly. And so yeah, I feel like that really sparked me going down the path. And then I just became really obsessed with neuroscience. You know what’s interesting is with trauma, know Bessel van der Kolk talks about how one of the pervasive and detrimental kinds of trauma is neglect.

And here you’re talking a lot about self-awareness and if we’re not seen from our caregivers, it becomes very challenging, I think, for those children to grow up aware that feelings matter or that… A hundred percent. So there can be a lot of learnings that need to happen later in life. Yeah, and I think of the whole brainchild, Tina Payne-Brierson and Dan Siegel’s work on seen, safe, soothed, and secure. Those four S’s are…

really, really key. And what’s tricky is just knowing that it’s not a one size fits all for those four S’s, that each kid, how you help them feel seen in this world or how they feel soothed or secure, those are not necessarily the same from one to the other kid. And I mean, my sensory sensitive son, for him to feel soothed,

He wants me to be quiet and nearby, but not touching him. And my daughter is like, yes, validate all my emotions, talk to me. She would climb back inside the womb if she could. So much touch. And when we look at that, understanding how their nervous systems work, she’s a sensory seeker and he’s sensory sensitive. And so for him, he gets so overwhelmed and flooded that for him to feel soothed, he needs quiet and calm.

and for her to feel soothed, she needs me to be talking and touching. Right. What do you think about kids that are scared to be alone? I think a lot of us are scared to be alone. Or like sleep alone. Yeah, well, I think sleeping alone, I think in general, it makes sense to be scared to be alone. And I think about sleeping and how it’s the only time of day that we’re like, see you later. You’re going to go be in another room for 12 hours. We’re not going to be there with you.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (39:08.942)
We don’t do that any other time of day. And I mean, my kids each sleep in their own room. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with it. And it makes sense to me when kids are like, I’m not jazzed about this. You know, I do feel nervous about it. It’s a vulnerable, inherently vulnerable to be asleep. Your defenses are down. True. And so to be asleep and feel like the protector for me isn’t in this room is vulnerable.

it makes sense to feel nervous about that. And we, I don’t think it’s our job to make sure that they don’t feel scared. I think it’s our job if sleeping in a separate space or being in a separate space from each other is something that we’re going to do and navigate and feels important to us. I think it’s then our job to let them know what it feels like in their body when they’re scared and then what helps them feel safe. Yeah, I ask partly again from my own personal.

Like I did not like sleeping alone growing up. And it’s also cultural. Until I was 14 and shared, we kind of shared the bed with my auntie, like extended family and people do that in the Philippines. And we co-sleep now. But then I’ve also read this book about how mammals, like we’re as humans, we’re still mammals and we’re like the only species that kicks our babies out so early. And I don’t know, we just like to cuddle. But then I think, oh, I hope I’m not.

you know, down the road. I feel like they’re so secure that hopefully one day when they grow up, they are okay. Totally. alone. And I think it’s not, again, not one size fits all. Like my daughter loved co-sleeping and my son hated it. He doesn’t like touch and he doesn’t like that close proximity. He loves his own, my husband’s the same way actually, likes his own space. Yeah. And I have girlfriends like that. It’s so funny. We’ll like do bedtime with him and.

I’ve been like, hey bud, do you want me to like stay and rub your head or, and he’s like, you can go now. I’m good here. And that is what, that is truly what’s calming for him. And my daughter’s like, please never leave. Let’s touch forever. So really looking at like, who’s the kid in front of me and parenting that child is so key. Well, Alyssa, I could talk to you forever. There’s so much amazing information that I really connected with in your book. Once again, Big Kids.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (41:30.872)
bigger feelings. I love that it’s based on connection. And some parenting books, I people, you know, write about different things and there’s different angles, but it feels a little bit clinical to me. But this is really, I would say heart-based. Yes, science, lots of neuroscience, also connection, empathy, self-regulation. And it really, yeah, I think it’s very practical. Thank you.

Yeah, that’s the goal is like practical, actionable, and recognizing that we’re just humans on planet Earth trying to be in relationship with each other. On like a spinning ball. Exactly. It’s like such crazy. It’s so wild. that we’re all different and that makes it hard. And so we’re just trying to make that a little easier. So tell us Alyssa where we can find out more about your brand new book, which is just published and more about your work.

Yeah, so Big Kids, Bigger Feelings is out now. And that’s the like five to 12 year old range. Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, it was already out as well. And that’s the younger age range. And I read the audiobook for both, if that’s your jam. amazing. And it’s wherever books are sold. We published with HarperCollins, so you can snag it wherever. And Our Mothership, Seed and So, S-E-W.

is where you can find all the things. How to bring this work to your child’s school, any other additional resources, anything like that. Well, so we will link directly to Alyssa’s book. Once again, Big Kids, Bigger Feelings and her work and her website and our show notes at mysaluna.com. So it’s easy to find as well as other articles and resources I think you would enjoy. Alyssa, once again, thank you so much. This was such an easy flow and I can tell your heart is really.

in this work. Thanks. And this is such an amazing resource for mamas. I’ll say it again from the beginning, mamas to be and any human looking to understand themselves more. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure to hang. Yes, for sure. And thank you, love so much for tuning in. Once again, please go to the show notes, mysaloon.com and I will see you all back here in just a few days. Take great care and sending you all so much love.

Handling Anxiety & Conflict in Kids (and Humans!) with Connection with NYT Bestselling Author Alyssa Blask Campbell [Episode 1013]

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