How to Find Real Love within Yourself and A Partner with Rachel Lindsay [Episode #767]
This week’s topic is: How to Find Real Love within Yourself and A Partner with Rachel Lindsay
I am so excited to have my very special guest, Rachel Lindsay, who is an attorney, media personality, podcaster, host, speaker and author. Listen in as Rachel shares how she balances her career and her personal life, how to stay grounded amidst the chaos, how to connect with your inner guide, and so much more!
Balancing your career and personal life…
How to stay grounded amidst the chaos of life…
External identity and the pressure from the outside world…
Discerning authentic feelings versus being swept up in a contrived world…
What inspired Rachel to write, Real Love?…
How to connect with your inner guide…
Being in an interracial relationship…
About Rachel Lindsay
Rachel Lindsay is an attorney, media personality, podcaster, host, speaker and author. Last year, she released her first book, Miss Me With That which encompassed a collection of essays exploring everything from relationships and love to politics and race. She is currently a correspondent with ExtraTV, host of The Ringer’s Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay podcast which was recently nominated for an NAACP. Continuing to break the glass ceiling, Rachel will soon be releasing her debut novel, Real Love. She is best known for her role as the first Black lead in the franchise’s history on the thirteenth season of ABC’s The Bachelorette and as a contestant on the twenty-first season of ABC’s The Bachelor.
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Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Kimberly: 00:01 Nae loves and welcome to our Monday interview show. We have a very special guest for you here today, Rachel Lindsay, who amongst many other things, this amazing woman is also the first black bachelorette. So you might have seen her if you are a reality TV show watcher. And Rachel’s story is that she was an attorney, she was living this quiet life and then she got thrust into this world, completely changed everything for her. And now she’s a host on the Extra we met because she recently did our waterfall cleanse, which we are also launching this week. So I’m very excited to share more about that. And also, Rachel just published her first novel called Real Love. So we have lots and lot, lots of things to share and discuss with you. Very excited.
Fan of the Week
01:02 Before we get into the show, wanna give a shout out though to our fan of the week and her name is Mika12689302. Lots of numbers, <laugh> and she writes Most must most listen to. This is such a great motivational and informative podcast. It has really helped me to understand meditation and ways to improve my life. Mika12689302. Thank you so much my love for your review. If you could see me now, I really do have my hands on my heart that I’m taking that in. It really means a lot to me. I’m just so honored that we are connected and I’m so excited that you are interested and pursuing meditation, which has been such a powerful part of my own personal journey. So thank you so much my love, and I look forward to supporting you more and hopefully connecting more as well.
Please leave a review on iTunes and Subscribe
02:01 For my loves out there that haven’t yet left a review for your chance to also be shouted out as the fan of the week, please just take a moment or two and please leave us a review wherever you listen to our show. It could be Apple, Spotify, wherever. It’s an amazing way to support. So thank you so much. Please also share the show with anyone that you think would benefit and also subscribe for your own benefit so you stay in the flow. We’re so busy, each of us has so much going on. So sometimes things just, you know, go we, we <laugh>, we don’t have, we don’t have the ability to always, you know, make all these decisions and remember everything. So subscription is a really powerful way to support yourself and just stay in the flow of motivation and all these incredible guests and our q and A podcasts.
Get Your Copy Of YOU ARE MORE
Kimberly: 02:58 Last little reminder is that our latest book, baby You Are More More Than You Think You Are – Practical Enlightenment For Everyday Life, is out in paperback now and it’s a lighter physical version of this very practical guide, this manual for transforming your life from the inside out. And so we cover specific practices and um, information, teachings, meditations to increase your connection to your own creativity, your own piece, your own vitality, abundance and more. So check it out wherever books are sold. All right, all that being said, let’s get into our podcast today with a wonderful Rachel Lindsay
Interview with Rachel Lindsay
Kimberly: 00:01 Isn’t nice being home to podcast. I’m so happy you’re here in my woman cave
Rachel: 00:07 <laugh>. Oh, sorry. I, I am so happy to be here. Thank you for bringing me out here and I just feel already so comfortable and relaxed and just ready to talk to you.
Kimberly: 00:16 Oh man. You know, it’s so funny. I have a million questions for you. Love, and the, the world sees you as a certain way. First Black Bachelorette, you’re this public figure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I know you as this sweet woman we first met through doing the waterfall cleanse. Yes. Yes. Which is really exciting. Yes. And you did, you were like a champion. It’s not an easy feat doing a three day cleanse.
Rachel: 00:37 I gotta tell you, I started that cleanse right after, well, it was a magical day. We talked on, um, one 11. Yes. But I started it right after the Globes and, uh, doing the, working in the globes. And I was, it was just a really hectic time and I really didn’t think that I could do it, to be honest with you. And there was something about it, because it’s not just about smoothie Yes. Juices. It’s like working through it and journaling. Yes. And reading. Yes. And it impacted me so much. I could have gone more than three days Oh
Kimberly: 01:09 Wow. To
Rachel: 01:10 Listen, to hear. I really could have. And it’s something that I’m like, and it changed my eating habits. I was drinking less. I was way more reflective. And it’s hard for me to do that with my crazy schedule. So,
Kimberly: 01:24 <laugh>. Well, it’s funny cuz we talked and part of it is doing these guided meditations and you were saying to me, wait, so I was trying to fit everything and I was trying to like, listen to it while I was in the shower and part of it sitting in meditation. And I was like, oh my gosh. This incredible, beautiful soul. We need some time for you Yeah. To focus on your self-care. And we’re gonna talk about your, your, your diet a separate time, you and I. Yes. But, but it’s funny, we, we get into, and there’s so much, I know you have this book out, real love, which I’m so excited to talk about, but there’s so much we wanna accomplish in a day, in a month. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> as, as you know, women and creators and our careers. And it’s like, how do we do that without sacrificing our own Yeah. Sanity. Yes. And our sense of self. So can you talk a little bit about this crazy, you know, from the outside world looks like this enormous transition. You are an attorney mm-hmm. <affirmative> or living your life now, suddenly you’re going on this huge reality show. All of everybody in the world can now watch you mm-hmm. <affirmative> talk about you. And now you’re a host for e Extra Extra. So now you’re, now you’re on, now you’re public.
Rachel: 02:33 Yeah.
Kimberly: 02:34 All the time. Yeah. So how, what about this whirlwind <laugh>?
Rachel shares what her life is like with her career and personal life
Rachel: 02:37 It, it, that’s exactly what it is, is a whirlwind. I mean, when I, I come from, you know, like a very, like, I, I had a great upbringing, uh, and I came from a very pragmatic religious family. Very routine, very private <laugh>. Um, my dad, my, my, I have two, two sides to the family. Like my mother’s side is a lot more loving and emotional and, um, sentimental. My dad’s side is very like, you know, what’s your GPA and what are you? And, and just kind of, I don’t mean I love both sides of my family. I don’t mean to talk about them, but they’re, they’re void, void of that, that’s not as important to them Right. As it is to the other side. So I feel like I had a good balance, a blend of that. So I’m saying that to say going on reality TV show was not in the cards, was not in the plan.
03:31 I was, I feel like I was almost groomed a certain way of what I was supposed to do. And following my father’s footsteps, he was in law. I was going to law. I had my life plan mapped out since the age of seven. I was checking all the boxes, <laugh>, there you go. Doing everything that I said I was gonna do. And I was, I was in it and I was dating the guy that I was supposed to date, who checked off all the boxes, pleased my family. I thought I was happy in it. And so by the time I decided to say yes to The Bachelor, I was in a place where I was Now that relationship was dead and I knew it. Mm. The writing was on the wall, but I just refused to read it because I had put so much into it.
04:13 I was afraid of letting go the fear of what was on the other side of it. So I just thought I would hold onto it and I’d figure it out and I would make it work. Because I also feel like as women, that’s what we do. Yes. Let’s figure it out. We’ll fix it. We’re fixers and instead of working on us, we work on everybody else. And so then I was also in my career and I just did not feel fulfilled. I was doing exactly what I wanted. I was at a firm that I wanted to be in. I love the type of law that I was practicing. What kind of law was it? Civil defense, litigations. Oh, wow. And so I, I loved litigation, but I would find myself staring more out of the window than focusing on my work. I was looking for something else.
04:51 And then I got a knock on the door from, I hadn’t started, I might have been five months into the shop. I get a knock on the door from two coworkers, that’s coworkers that say, Hey, we think you should be on The Bachelor. And didn’t even watch the show. We <laugh> Wait, your coworkers brought it to your door? Yes. And they, so they were fans. They were fans of the show. And they said, no tryouts are in two weeks down the street and we think you would be perfect for it. Wow. And I said, I laughed. And I said, I don’t even watch that show. I don’t think this show is for me. And they said, no, Rachel. And I said, I, what I do know from the show is that black people don’t go far. That’s like become a running joke. And they said, no, Rachel, if you do it, you’re gonna go far.
05:34 It’s almost like they could see something in me that I couldn’t see in myself. And I can’t explain it to you. I had this feeling that don’t say no say yes. I didn’t know what that meant. I just felt a pool that you need to go do this. And even the day that I went to trial, so too fast forward to two weeks later. Yeah. I went to the tryouts, or I was supposed to go and I got pulled in. It was on a Saturday. I randomly got pulled into work that day. I’m nor typically don’t work, go into the office on Saturdays. And
Kimberly: 06:08 So I hope not <laugh>.
Rachel: 06:09 No, I
Kimberly: 06:10 Hope this wasn’t the usual no part of your job.
Rachel: 06:13 It wasn’t. But I pulled into the office and I’m working on this case and my friend’s like, Hey, we’re down here. We’re waiting for you. And I was like, I don’t know if I’m gonna go. And the moment that I said it, it was like a voice was saying, you need to go down. Wow. You need to go down there.
Kimberly: 06:29 The true self voice guiding you.
Rachel: 06:31 Which I did not know what that was Right. At the time. And, but
Kimberly: 06:34 I, yes, I,
Rachel: 06:36 It sounded weird to tell people that, but I’m telling you, something was speaking to me and I heard the voice so clearly. Wow. Telling me you’re going to regret it if you don’t go. Like, you need to go down there. So I went, and even when I went, it was taking a long time and I tried to, I tried to leave early. I was like, okay, I gotta go back to work. This is taking too long. And I turned my application back in.
Kimberly: 07:00 Wow.
Rachel: 07:01 And she said, no, you need to go to one of the main producers. And I went to her and I said, I’m so sorry. I gotta go back to work. But I filled out all the paperwork and she goes, if you give me five minutes, I’ll cut you to the front of the line. Wow. And it’s just something bigger was working. Yeah. Every, I was looking for the nose and to get out of it, I go in, I meet with the producer on camera, she immediately is like, I’m sending you to the next place. And like, the rest is kind of history,
Kimberly: 07:27 <laugh>. Oh wow.
Rachel: 07:28 The rest. And, and I, I don’t even remember the first thing. Oh, you were like talking about the whirlwind. And so, yeah. So I just, from then on I kind of was like, I’m just gonna go where I feel moved to go and I’m going to stop doing things based on what I’m supposed to do. Yes. Or outta fear. So saying yes to the Bachelor and then eventually the Bachelorette was kind of a rebellious phase for me where I was like, you know what? I’m not gonna do what I’m supposed to do. I’m just gonna do it and I’m gonna be a little selfish and I’m gonna see where this ride takes me because I’ve never done this before in my life. Wow. And it completely changed the entire trajectory of my life in the best way I got, I got and I getting more things out of life than I ever did before. And that was the first time that I acted in a way where I wasn’t scared.
Kimberly: 08:14 Wow.
Rachel: 08:15 To do something
Kimberly: 08:15 Incredible.
Rachel: 08:17 And so, yeah. That’s, that’s kind of how I got to this place. And I’m, and I’m not a public person, even though I do so much in public, which we keep a lot of our relationship very private. Yes. Um, but yeah, I, it’s taken me to places that I did not think that I would be <laugh> at all.
Kimberly: 08:34 So again, we met in a completely different context. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we zoomed, we talked, and I just felt and feel, of course, this very warm, grounded, beautiful soul. So part of this journey of being on TV and being on a reality show does set you up for, again, I, I, I encourage cuz I can feel it for myself. Really difficult people commenting, talking about your love, your life. How do you stay grounded when suddenly this lens, it’s almost like now you are in this fishbowl. Does that keep you up at night? Do, how do you delineate, okay, here’s this and they can make their comments. But it doesn’t shake me. It doesn’t bother me.
How to stay grounded amidst the chaos of life
Rachel: 09:15 I think that if I had started this journey in my twenties, it
Kimberly: 09:20 Would mess <laugh>. It
Rachel: 09:22 Would consume me. I I would not have survived it. I, I really believe that. But there’s something that happens when you turn 30. And I know people say that, but I had made a conscious decision that I was going to step outside of my box and I was gonna allow myself to fly. I actually told a producer that, cause he was like, why are you here? And I was like, I kind of came to fly to, to detach from a world that I’ve known and separate myself from tv, internet, phone, and just listen to what it was that I wanted for the first time ever without any distractions, family, friends. That’s the positive side of reality TV that nobody talks about. Yes. You really can be an opportunity to discover you because you’re cut off from everything else. Wow. Yeah. You’re doing a show, but you really have a lot of alone time for yourself. So for me, um, I feel like when I made that decision and I knew that I was trying to figure out what Rachel wanted for the first time, I have become very good at compartmentalizing things. And I was in such a solid place with my family and my friend group and my own desires that I don’t really get distracted and caught up in what people are saying because I’m like, you don’t know me and I know me. Wow.
Kimberly: 10:36 And
Rachel: 10:36 So I don’t care. <laugh>, I’m not saying that it doesn’t, I love, that doesn’t hit me Sometimes.
Kimberly: 10:42 That is
Rachel: 10:43 Powerful. It doesn’t, it does affect me. I wanna be honest. There are times where I’m like, oh, that’s just so disappointing because you think you know me and you really don’t. But for the most part, I know who the people that, that know me. And I’ve built a strong circle of friends that I trust who will check me if I’m acting a certain way or out of character. And that’s my foundation and that’s who I go to. If I start feeling any kind of way, I don’t allow these other people’s opinions and feelings to define me because I’ve already done that for myself. And that’s,
Kimberly: 11:14 That’s, that’s huge how
Rachel: 11:15 I get past it.
Kimberly: 11:17 So <laugh>, First of all, I wanna say this is very profound and it’s also quite unusual, I wanna say as someone who’s, who’s worked with many entertainers and been around the space mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, to have this, what we talk about here in the community a lot, a difference between the ego and what we project externally to the world. What I look like, what I’m doing, here’s what’s happening. Here’s what you can see filming versus the real Rachel. The true self, the heart, the soul, the intuition, the the love coming inside of you to have that delineation. A lot of people get swept up into it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we see what happens when you’re in really young, like the Britney Spears of the world or some people that don’t have that deep groundedness. And I can’t help but think the way you were brought up and you talked about having like spiritual base. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is a real strong family. Yeah. And getting into this, you know, thankfully after 30 verses before Oh my gosh. But you just feel very, um, like calm about it. So what are some of your practices, if any, would you say it’s just your really strong circle? Do you have a prayer practice or meditation or something you do physi? Like an exercise, something that just helps you stay in this Yeah. Place.
Practices to stay in a grounded place
Rachel: 12:26 I talk to myself a
Kimberly: 12:28 Lot. Okay. So you’re having that dialogue <laugh>?
Rachel: 12:31 I do. And in and, and sometimes that’s in the form of, you know, a mi mindful walking. Yeah. Sometimes that’s in a prayer. Mm. Sometimes that’s just, I don’t know. Me talking to myself and, and checking myself and being aware of certain things that are happening. And I feel like that is a form of, of, of therapy for me. And it keeps me grounded. Actual therapy is something that has made me very calm. Yes. And I started that at the same time that I turned 30 that I was questioning my relationship and my job. And I actually went to therapy to impress the guy that I was dating because he started it. And I wanted to say I went to therapy and I ended up saving myself in therapy. It told me that that relationship, not the therapist, cause that’s not what they do, but I realized that that relationship was more damaging to me than it was helpful for me. That’s not where I was supposed to be. Therapy really helped me be more aware of who I am, recognize some problematic patterns and, um, yeah. Just, it’s really a self check. And so yeah. Between mindful walking, talking to myself and therapy, it’s really helped. I, I go through phases of meditation. I wish I was more consistent. I know.
Kimberly: 13:50 We gotta
Rachel: 13:51 Get that, get to that love. Oh my
Kimberly: 13:52 Gosh. We’ll do another cleanse and I’ll get you on there.
Rachel: 13:55 <laugh>. Yes. And you know what else has helped me? I’m really in the A S M R. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I have, my husband hates it. <laugh>. I love it. It is the most calming thing. It’s almost like a bedtime story to me. Oh. So when I feel very anxious, I will listen to it. In the car, people are like, how do you listen to it? It is <laugh>. So if I, if I, if my thoughts are too much, where talking to myself makes me even more anxious. Cause that happens sometimes too. I calm down by listening to a smr. Wow. So those are some of the things that I do that really help. Or I just like drive. Wow. I don’t think about anything. I just drive. I just look.
Kimberly: 14:33 What about any sort of pressure you feel? Right. Because it’s one thing to be like, I’m on a reality show. And, and essentially you are, you know, the lead of the, of,
Rachel: 14:42 Of
Kimberly: 14:43 A reality show. But then there’s this pressure being the first black woman mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then there’s also, I think in general, when someone is a very, um, beautiful person externally, it’s like, oh, your skin is so amazing, Rachel, you look beautiful. How do you not, um, over-identify again either with this pressure for the title or like, here’s I, here is what I look like when there’s a day. Well maybe, you know what, you have a zit or you have a bad hair day. Or you, you know what I’m saying? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there’s just so much of a, so many of us put our identity into this external and there’s so much pressure. So for women and people out there, how do you balance that?
Balancing your external identity despite the pressure from the outside world
Rachel: 15:23 Ooh. Um, <laugh>, which isn’t
Kimberly: 15:26 An easy
Rachel: 15:26 Question. It’s a great question. I, and it’s funny that you talk about skin because this time last year, I had the worst breakout I’ve ever had in my life. I was going through a lot. I had a lot of personal loss. Um, there was just a lot of stress on the job. And I think that that contributed to it. But I mean, I’ve never had issues with acne full belong. No one could figure out what it was. And I was very insecure about my, I would like cry and I’d have to put on all this makeup. Cause I’m on TV every day. Yes. And people look at you. And I would just cry to my husband about how, you know, I was feeling and I’m, I’m very blessed to have someone who’s supportive and who’s just like, talk me through and say, you know, like, that’s not what you need to necessarily wrap yourself worth and your beautiful people see that. Um, and so
Kimberly: 16:14 <laugh> and he sees that I, I he’s your mirror. He’s
Rachel: 16:17 My mirror. And I, I, but I really struggled with that in a way that I never really had before. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because I don’t think I’ve also been, I was an ugly duckling growing up. And I don’t know if that’s a phrase that you, I
Kimberly: 16:28 Can’t even say anymore. I can’t even imagine that
Rachel: 16:31 I, my sister was the pretty, I was the cool sister. I have three, there’s three of us. I was the middle child. I’m very much so that <laugh>, I was the cool sister. And I got by on being cool because my looks weren’t, I grew into them where my older sister was the prettier one. And both of my, all my sisters, or both my sisters are beautiful now. Um, I mean, we always were, but I’m just saying, like, you all grew into our looks. Um, so I think I of
Kimberly: 16:55 Three girls,
Rachel: 16:56 Yeah. I think I kind of just adapted to not relying on my looks. I relied on my personality, which I ha I think has helped me in the long run. So my identity and self-worth was never really wrapped up in my looks. I also say that I was on reality television, and so people saw me at my worst, no makeup, thrown hair. Like, so I don’t <laugh>. If you, if you go through that, it’s like people have seen you in all kinds of ways, crying, screaming, every, all those things. So I, I’ve never really been wrapped into that. I think my, the pressure I feel and is my identity is wrapped up in my work. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I’ve
Kimberly: 17:33 Always can relate to,
We discuss the drive to be perfect
Rachel: 17:35 I’ve always, I’ve, I was playing piano at church at age 11. Like I’ve been getting a paycheck since I was 11 years old. Wow. And so a lot of my self-worth sometimes is wrapped up in my work, which becomes problematic because I prior, I prioritize that over everything else. And if certain things aren’t going a certain way, then I don’t feel whole. Yes. And I feel less than. And I feel a lot of pressure, especially having a public job to always be so public with my job and make sure that, you know, people know that I’m always doing something that is what I feel like is my problem. Yes. And where I
Kimberly: 18:13 Struggle. Oh, I relate to that very much. This drivenness for me, I was a perf I say I’m a recovering perfectionist <laugh>. And it was this like, here’s my worth. I always had to be number one in the class. For me. It was great and everything to show. Um, and I’ve really looked at that to be like, oh, it’s, it’s actually helped me accomplish a lot of things. But when it’s so much drivenness to the point of depletion, it’s like, oh, I’m worthy just because I’m here. Right. I’m breathing, I’m alive. It’s not the doing that gives us worth. But it’s, it’s tough.
Rachel: 18:46 That’s struggle with that.
Kimberly: 18:47 Yeah. That for me, that’s why I need the meditation. I need to go to that formless place. I need to have the morning routine. So for you, Rachel, is there some sort of, um, rhythm in your day? Or I know you’re, you know, because you’re doing all these interviews, you’re on the carpet, I imagine you have a lot in the evenings. Yeah. So your mornings are pretty sacred, I hope. Or some part of the day.
Rachel: 19:08 This is so no, nothing. I don’t have a time in the day. Well, I, I really don’t. My mornings are may, maybe it’s walking, the walking the dogs is like the the only morning routine that I have. Yeah. But I am that person who will keep hitting their alarm to get that last five minutes, six, seven minutes of sleep. I don’t make time in the morning for that. You know, at best I might lie in the bed and look up at the ceiling and just think, but if I’m really honest, I’m thinking about my day and how I’m going to say, okay, so if I do this from nine to 10, then I can do this from, that’s, that’s how I’m thinking. I’m going through my entire day in my head. And I think about that before I get out of the bed. And I’m like, okay, now I’ve planned my day and I can go nothing for me. Well,
Kimberly: 19:59 I, I didn’t tell you something Rachel, in a few months you’re gonna come back on the show. After we work together more <laugh>, you’re
Rachel: 20:04 Gonna, so working
Kimberly: 20:05 Together, we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about this in a few months. And just the difference because you’re here this incredible energy, so healthy looking, beautiful skin, and you have no practices. Nice. So imagine as we start to systemize this, I can only imagine what will come. So
Rachel: 20:22 My only strength is that I’m aware. Yes. I am aware of what I need to do. I just don’t take the step of actually practicing it.
Kimberly: 20:30 Yes. But you are blessed in that you already have this groundedness, this different sense of self. Um, and so I wanna move to the book, but first I just wanna ask you another question out of personal curiosity, being on this show, and I’ve seen some of the show. Okay. And there’s always a lot of people that say, it looks so fake. Is this real love? Yeah. Here you are. And I can see from your, you know, Instagram po you can feel when there’s a realness. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you and your husband really do love each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you’re on set. I mean, how hard is it to really discern these authentic feelings versus just being swept up in this sort of contrived world?
Discerning authentic feelings versus being swept up in a contrived world
Rachel: 21:09 You do get swept up. Yeah. It, it’s impossible. Anyone who says this, you don’t.
Kimberly: 21:14 It’s so romantic and like gorgeous <laugh>.
Rachel: 21:17 You’re traveling the world.
Kimberly: 21:18 You’re
Rachel: 21:19 Wearing these fabulous clothes, you’re getting made up this
Kimberly: 21:21 Style. Yeah. You’re
Rachel: 21:22 Treated like an a-list star as, as the lead. And all these men are there
Kimberly: 21:27 In the according you.
Rachel: 21:29 And like they’re telling you how wonderful you are. It’s like, how do you not get a big head?
Kimberly: 21:34 Yeah. You really
Rachel: 21:35 Do. And it, it is magical in a sense. And that’s the, the reason that this show still exists to this day. And it’s been going for 20 plus years because there’s a fantasy
Kimberly: 21:46 About it.
Rachel: 21:47 Yes. And that’s important to call out if you’re gonna be the lead recognizing it is a fantasy. And so my whole thing was who makes sense in the real world? If this person, if I find this person, how do I integrate them into my life? And vice versa. Does it make, is it just, cuz there are guys that I were on the, that I was on the show with. If we stayed in that world, we would’ve been amazing <laugh>
Kimberly: 22:12 In that fake world. <laugh> that
Rachel: 22:14 Fake world, that fake love. Yeah.
Kimberly: 22:16 Yeah. But
Rachel: 22:17 With Brian, I knew we could make sense. Mm. And so it, it takes the, the romantic part out of it. But love isn’t always romantic. Like it’s locked there.
Kimberly: 22:28 There’s lot, there’s a lot
Rachel: 22:29 In it. And so I really had to talk to myself in that way. And I saw that with Brian. But I be, it is hard. And even anybody who watched my season, and it was very controversial because it came down to two guys that I was, that I very much so cared about. They were completely different. And that my last relationship that I had prepared me, little did I know. Mm. It was preparing me, those lessons that I learned, it was preparing me for the decision that I was gonna make between the two. And I was drawn to the guy that I didn’t end up choosing because that is the type of relationship that I had always had.
Kimberly: 23:02 Interesting.
Rachel: 23:03 And Brian was so, like, he was focused on me. He knew what he wanted. He was sure of himself. He didn’t need to be fixed. I was like, oh, this guy, I can fix him. We can be great together. And I, it was just familiar to me. Yes. And, but I recognized it immediately once I started to get to know who he was, because I had been through that before. And I think I was scared of O’Brien because it was just very real.
Kimberly: 23:29 Yes.
Rachel: 23:30 But I went with, you know, I trusted my gut. I knew what was right. And you know, it’s, it’s worked out. And so one of the things I, it’s
Kimberly: 23:38 Very exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. It barely does. Because you don’t know you can go on the show and Oh. You know, it never it work out. But the chan the, the cha the fact that you guys found each other, you know, again, love finds a way. Could be reality show, could be online dating. My husband and I met at the dinner party. You just don’t know.
Rachel: 23:56 Yeah. It’s, it really is wild. But my mom said, one of the things she said to me before I left, cuz you know, I can’t talk to her during the season.
Kimberly: 24:02 Oh, I didn’t know that.
Rachel: 24:03 Yeah. You are cut off.
Kimberly: 24:05 Oh, you can’t have any input from all
Rachel: 24:07 <laugh>. Nothing. So you really, it’s, I’m,
Kimberly: 24:09 It’s
Rachel: 24:09 Really, so even going on the Bachelor, being by myself and separated and isolated by my, how many
Kimberly: 24:14 Weeks?
Rachel: 24:14 Prepared me 10 weeks.
Kimberly: 24:15 Whoa.
Rachel: 24:16 Until you, until family weekend when you see your family. Yeah. But the last thing my mom said to me was, trust your gut. She’s like,
Kimberly: 24:22 Listen, wise woman,
Rachel: 24:23 Listen to yourself. And I did that. And that even when they questioned decisions that I made, I was like, you told, you have to trust me. You told me to trust my gut.
Kimberly: 24:32 Wow. Wow. Yeah. So let’s talk about your book, which is speaking about love and real. It’s called Real Love. Yes. So what inspired you to write this?
What inspired Rachel to write, Real Love?
Rachel: 24:42 My life inspired
Kimberly: 24:44 Me. There you go.
Rachel: 24:45 I told the story of how of the knock on the door. And that’s really the where this book kind of starts. Real love is the name of the book. It’s also name of, name of the reality show in the book. And um, so I always wonder what would happen if I had said no. Cuz I was so close to it. I was little.
Kimberly: 25:04 You tried to get out of it.
Rachel: 25:06 I tried to get out of it and that Cause I was scared of the unknown. Yes. And I never lived in a space of knowing. I always was like, you do this, this happens, then you do this and this happens. I’ve planned it all out. Look age seven. So I
Kimberly: 25:19 Being on You mean being on TV was never a part of your
Rachel: 25:22 Plan? Not in the master plan, not in the mastermind.
Kimberly: 25:25 Look at your life now. Isn’t it amazing?
Rachel: 25:27 It’s, it’s incredible. I’m so grateful and I’m so blessed. But I always, I talk about being aware and checking myself. I always, this came, this life came very quickly for me. This, this has all changed in the last six, almost seven years. So because it came very quickly, I always think I could lose it very quickly. Hmm. And so I always wanna remember what the girl who almost said no. So sometimes I sit to myself and I’m like, okay, it’s Friday, it’s 10 o’clock. What would you be doing if you had said no? And I always go back to that place. So this book starts in that place. Hmm. It’s the protagonist in the book Maya, who is loosely, loosely based off of me, <laugh>. She says, no. Oh. When, when it’s her friends that are saying you should go on this show. And so she’s like, Nope, I have the guy, I have my job.
26:17 You know, I’m happy where I am. I’m doing everything I said I would and this, and I’m gonna continue in this way. And her friend says, well then I’m gonna go on the show. So she’s watching her friend live out this life that she said no to or what could have been hers. And then she Wow. Navigates her life going along the way that she always planned. And you see her that things don’t go as planned. Mm. And she’s struggling. Her life isn’t as perfect as she thought. Not with family, not with her friends, not with her job, not with her boyfriend of 10 years. And so you see these themes of self-discovery, of conquering fear, of, um, yeah.
Kimberly: 26:57 Just being enough.
Rachel: 26:58 Being enough. She really, and I know this is a romance novel and I know it’s women’s fiction, but I have to tell people who do follow the templates of these type of books as there’s a template. This book kind of steps outside of it and doesn’t end the way that you think it’s going to. Because love doesn’t have to necessarily be with just one person. And this is not giving the book away cuz there’s so much to it. It’s also about loving yourself. And you see Maya really question this. And she’s challenged in ways by new people that come into her life by new opportunities that come into it. And so that is very much so a lot of the things that I talk about just on this podcast that have happened to me in real life, that you see her go through. So even though she chose one path, she’s still having to make certain decisions and come at certain crossroads even though she’s following the life plan. Wow. And so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, I love it. It’s a story within a story because you’re also seeing the reality TV side of things, but the focus really is Maya and everything that she’s going through.
Kimberly: 27:59 Wow. Brilliant. So it sounds like you’re, you’re teaching us some of your philosophy. You’re infusing your ideas Yeah. Through the whole story. Yeah. And did you enjoy the writing process?
The writing process for Rachel
Rachel: 28:10 Oh my gosh, I definitely had help. Now I’m very honest. Yeah. I am not a superwoman. I had help Alexa Martin, shout out to her. She was incredible during this process. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I didn’t know much about, you know, writing fiction, but she helped me develop the characters, the ideas, the building, building, all of it. The story. I just, wow. She, I cannot think Alexa enough. And she’s an incredible auth author in her own writing and has amazing, amazing books. And she and I really bonded over this process. But I loved writing in this way because there’s certain things. I wrote a book of essays about me, non-fiction. There’s certain things that I could say in that because I wanted to tell my story and made sure that I was respectful to other people and not tell theirs. But in fiction, you get to explore that without naming those people. So
28:57 There’s someone from my past who sees themselves in it. That’s, that’s you saying that. That’s not my fault. <laugh>. I, that’s love it. It’s not mine. But I just, I loved this so much because, and you know, the book is written for someone who’s at a crossroads in their life. Someone who might be going, you know, you know someone who’s going through this, you’re going through this right now. You’re scared to take that leap of faith. You’re scared of the risk. And yes, the risk are scary and it’s not always rewarding, but it really can be. And you’ll never know unless you do it. And that is something that it took me until I was 30 to learn that. And yes, I went on reality TV and that, I’m not suggesting that for everyone, but I think if you haven’t already, you’re gonna come to some point in your life.
29:40 Yes. Where you’re, you’re gonna have to make a decision into the unknown. And it is a scary place to be in. And it might not work out the way that you want, but it could, or you might learn something from it. And I just, what has happened to me these last few years has meant so much. I just feel like I wanna continue to share that story. So the book is written for the means. The, the, you know, I really think like the twenties, thirties, but aren’t we all at that crossroad? It could be forties, fifties, wherever it may
Kimberly: 30:08 Be. It could be in your eighties. Eighties <laugh>. Yeah. Well also just to, to read something that is inspiring and whilst we have different experiences, we can really relate those feelings. Yeah. You know, like what we’re going through emotionally. Yeah. And just to see, oh, wow. And you know, one thing that strikes me about you, Rachel, so much is you talk about this, you’re so connected to your gut. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which, you know, in my work, I talk a lot about intuition, the true self, like strengthening that through practices. And you don’t have your practices <laugh>, but it’s just this innate thing in you. And so I think sharing that in your book, real Love, which by the way loves, we will link to directly in the show notes. It’s available now wherever books are sold. So check it out at your local book retailer. Yes. Or online.
30:53 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we love to support the local bookshops as well. Yes. Um, but just to, to read something, um, from that perspective, encouraging us as well to go with that. Because it is, you know, it sounds cheesy and cliche, but at the end of the day, it’s the things we don’t do that we really regret. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it’s like, oh, you know, if you didn’t do this, you wouldn’t have met your husband. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I’ll say, you know, I had this, this, if he’s listening to this, I’ll say, this random person on my podcast who shall remain unnamed. I didn’t know him. He wasn’t like a, like a friend, but he invited me to this dinner party. There was like 12 people there. And I remember just being like, all right, I’ll, I don’t really wanna go. I love, I have a homebody, I wanna be home. But I went and then I ended up meeting my husband. Wow. Right. So it’s just like, there was something in Me too, this gut. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think women, especially hearing other women, like what is that guidance? Yeah. How do we connect to it? And how does that, how do we move it? How does it help us move us forward is key.
How to connect with your inner guide
Rachel: 31:48 Absolutely. Yeah. I, um, I, it’s, I’m glad that you talk about it. It’s funny cuz you’re like, you’re so connected to your gut. I’m like, well, I don’t have a healthy gut <laugh>. We’re work on that. We’re gonna talk about that. We’re gonna
Kimberly: 32:00 Some more probiotics
Rachel: 32:01 Today. We’re gonna work on that. But I, I just, I don’t know. I’ve always felt that even as a child, just listening to the voice within, and I, it’s not everybody gets it. I wish more people were connected to it, but it’s never led me in the wrong way. Even if I was doing things according to that life plan, I still was always in tune to. Yeah. Even like the people that I dated. I didn’t date someone just based off of how they look. I had to feel them. I had to be connected to them. And I’ve, I’ve always tried to hold onto that because, you know, it brought me to where I am right now.
Kimberly: 32:39 So would you say, um, or what would you say is one message, someone reading real love? What is the one message that you’d really want them to take away from the book?
One take away from Rachel’s Real Love book
Rachel: 32:50 I would say it’s in the Forward. Which if I
Kimberly: 32:53 Yes please. Not the
Rachel: 32:54 Forward, um, in the dedication. So there’s this, um, Tennessee Williams play called Stairs to the Roof. And there’s a, the subtitle of that is a, a prayer for the, oh my gosh, now I’m gonna say this wrong. A prayer for, um, the Wild at Heart kept, oh the, A Prayer for the Wild at Heart kept in cages. And I always remember reading that and I was like, that’s me.
Kimberly: 33:17 Whoa. That line’s amazing.
Rachel: 33:18 I was like, I feel like I am, you know, even though I’m doing my life plan, I feel very caged. That’s why when the producer said, why are you here? I said, I came to fly. So my book of essays is dedicated to that. Those who are wild at heart and kept in cages. I loved that that resonated with me so much. Cause I felt like that was me. And so when I did this book and I did the dedication, I said that it was to all of those held captive to their life plans. And I said, free yourself. All of those who are wondering what is on the other side of the rainbow, go look for yourself. And all of those who are ready to take flight, but are too afraid to try soar. Wow. And that’s who I feel, that’s the message that I want. Just go for it. Wow. Because you just don’t know. Don’t live in a place of wonderment. Don’t live in a place of, you know, what if just do it. Like what are we afraid of? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and we’re holding ourselves back because we’re afraid of the no. We’re afraid of judgment. It’s gonna be okay. Just go for
Kimberly: 34:23 It. Wow.
Rachel: 34:24 That’s what I would say. Wow. <laugh>.
Kimberly: 34:26 Well that’s huge. And again, as a living example of really taking this leap mm-hmm. <affirmative> into something I would be terrified of, which is now my life is Yeah. Public. Yeah. In a reality show mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you had this groundedness, you had this voice inside of you. And there was, was there anything else in your life that got you over this leap of, Hey, I’m scared to go on the show, or Hey, I’m scared to write this book. Or, you know, any sort of fearful situation that comes up for you?
Rachel: 34:55 I mean, the fear of, of being judged I think is, is very real. You know? Well, when I wrote my book of essays, it was, well this is me taking control of my life and telling my story. Are people going to judge me? Because this is really me. It’s my book is messy. The, the book of essays I wanted, I, what I didn’t like about The Bachelorette is you’re this perfect woman that every man desires. And it’s like you have no flaws and no insecurities.
35:24 Like that is not me <laugh>. So I wanted to write a messy book because I wanted to break that. And I wanted people to see like, that’s not how we really are. This is who I am and my mistakes got me to the place that I am now when I’m write this book as it’s coming out, you know, it’s nerve wracking. You know, people are like, what is she doing writing a fiction novel? What, who does she think she is? But this is a real story that I feel is very, or it’s real to me in that I feel it’s relatable of the things that we go through in life. Yes. So I just had to get over the fear of, you know, people’s opinions and the way that they may judge me or they might not even like the book in the book might not do well, but I enjoyed this process so much and I love, love the characters in it. Love it. Even Ralph Heard no good boyfriend <laugh>. I, he is a combination of exes and people that I’ve known that I think people will see themselves or they’ll see other people in it and they’ll be able to grasp something from it. So it’s not just, it is fun and it definitely takes you on a ride. But I think the themes are really powerful in it too. So you can take something with you.
Kimberly: 36:32 Oh, I love it. This is the kind of novel that I like. I don’t read a lot of fiction, but if something has meaning behind it, yeah. If something has a real message, it’s exciting to me. Yeah. And again, because you’ve infused so much of your own life experience in it. Yes. Um, and then look, I’m looking at the cover art, which we’ll also put into the show notes. Do you feel pressure and, you know, going back to this question Rachel, just for being like, okay, the first of this and this mm-hmm. <affirmative> from the black community. Oh yeah. And also like, you know, with the interracial Yeah. Like there’s a, there’s a, the image here is a, is a, you know, a white man and a, and a, you know, black woman. So tell me about that. Yeah. How are you just like, I, I’m me. I’m Rachel Black, purple, white
Pressure from the black community and what it’s like being in an interracial relationship
Rachel: 37:11 <laugh>. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I, in my book of essays, I’m very honest with my life plan. And part of my life plan was the perfect guy for me. Yeah. And that guy was a black man. Yes. I thought that I had to be with a black man. And it wasn’t until I was in my thirties, very, very powerful. 30 31 was a big time for me, big transition that I said, you know, I’ve dated the guy that I’m supposed to date and it’s not working out right. So I’m going to open myself up to whoever, whatever comes my way. I thought he had to be a certain height, thought he had to have a certain religion, thought he had to look a certain way. Brian is so opposite from the guy on that list, <laugh>. And that’s who I ended up falling in love with and marrying. So, you know, I, when I, when I talk to, when I have to, cause I do get a lot of criticism from when I did the Bachelorette and I didn’t choose a black man. It’s like, okay, well here’s the first black bachelorette and she doesn’t even choose a black man. She’s not even choosing us. She’s
Kimberly: 38:10 Choosing love.
Rachel: 38:11 She’s choosing love. And I knew I was gonna get that criticism and I was very honest with myself, I’m gonna talk to myself.
Kimberly: 38:16 Unbelievable.
Rachel: 38:17 I told myself, if you get go on this show, you fall for whoever you fall for. And you don’t worry about it. I knew, I told myself that. I was like, I’m gonna love who I love and I’m not gonna care. I’m not gonna make a decision on what I’m supposed to do. I’ve spent 30 years of my life doing that. I’m not gonna do that. It’s who I connect with, who I feel who I
Kimberly: 38:37 Isn’t that the point as my person is to, is to see love as an energy. Yes. Not based on the color.
Rachel: 38:43 And now I have a lot of women, black women who come to me and say that. Cause I’m always like, if you have a list, rip it up. Just like trust yourself and you know, don’t compromise your morals and values. Those are very real things, but don’t get caught up in what they look like or you know, what they have to be or the career that they have to have or anything like that. So I, yeah, I definitely face that pressure. And even with when the book art came out, I’ve had people say, oh, there she goes again. Oh, there she is. There she is. But it’s like, I am in an interracial relationship and that isn’t even telling about what’s about to happen with the book. Just to be, just to be honest.
Kimberly: 39:21 But cliffhangers here, <laugh>,
Rachel: 39:22 Why can’t you celebrate interracial love as well? I mean, that’s very real to me. Yeah. You know, why does love have to look a certain way? And so the book is, the friend group is diverse, Maya is a black woman. And you see her struggle with certain things with that in, in society and certain pressure she has to deal with. But I also wanted a diverse friend group. The, the, the lead of real love is a Latino woman, which we haven’t seen on The Bachelor. Yes. So that’s, I, there’s certain things that I want my life is diverse. So I wanted that Maya to have that as well. It didn’t have to look a certain way.
Kimberly: 39:56 Yes. Well, so you and I were talking a little bit about the, you know, before the show about Black Lives Matter and Asian hate and now there’s this healing that’s happening. But my prayer and my hope is, you know, this is the, the, the immediate, the intermediate stage where we’re still focusing so much Yeah. On that. And then in the future, I hope it’s just like, here we are. Yeah. Black, white, purple. We’re all equal. It doesn’t matter. Yeah. You know, I know that’s, you know, a lofty place to get to <laugh> hope, but you know, hopefully in a generation or two we’ll get to that place hopefully where there’s more healing. Yeah. We’re still so hyper focused. I think on the surface,
Rachel: 40:31 I think that what has been great, especially with what happened in 2020, is we were talking about it in a way that we never have before.
Kimberly: 40:40 Yes.
Rachel: 40:40 I think we had moved to a place where we were like, I’m colorblind. I don’t see color. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Like it’s great that you wanna move past that, but sometimes you have to see it.
Kimberly: 40:51 Yes. And deal with it’s true. The
Rachel: 40:53 Issues to understand how people are hurting and what they’ve been through and how to acknowledge that it’s a systemic thing. Yes. And I hope, my hope like you is that we’re talking about it in a way and it’s so out there in a way that we haven’t before that the next generation can be even better. Cuz we’re digging at it, we’re digging it up. We’re, we’re like, yeah, we’re digging it up and the next generation will be better and then they’ll be even better for the next generation. And hopefully it can be to that place. We’re taking down some of these hundreds and hundreds of years of, you know, issues that we’ve had when it comes to race and, and I just hope we get rid of it also, maybe we’ll be more blended. You know what mean, like Yeah, yeah. We’re talking about interracial love here. We’ll all look, there’s some thing that’s out there that’s like in 2050 something, this is what everyone’s is not gonna look like and it’s the most ambiguous person ever. So, oh, it’s
Kimberly: 41:45 Like, it’s like me, Rachel, you know, growing up, I grew up in such a Caucasian town in Connecticut and everybody’s like, well what are you? Yeah. So it did put a lot of emphasis on like, well, I’m a human, but it was like, what am I, I didn’t fit in. I’m Filipino and I have Irish and, and now our kids are, uh, quarter Filipino and my husband’s Jewish. So it is this melting pot mix. And then I, yeah. I just, I and I, it’s like a whole other story. I just got so sick of talking about what I am based on my race. I was just like, I’m a just an ordinary girl. Yeah. You
Rachel: 42:19 Know? Yeah. No, it’s, it’s bad when you have to always define, I, I grew up in predominantly white schools, everything. And so I, same thing. Oh yeah,
Kimberly: 42:27 Same thing. Yeah. You understand? Where did you grow up?
Rachel: 42:29 I grew up in Dallas. Okay. I’m from Dallas. I went to a private school my entire life. I always say I was everyone’s diversity. Yeah. Instead of nec necessarily getting it for me. Right. I was that I was that one person for them. Yeah.
Kimberly: 42:44 Wow. Well Rachel, thank you so much for sharing everything with us. I’m so excited for your book, which is just out now. Real love. We will link to it in the show notes. Congratulations.
Rachel: 42:54 Thank you so much. And thank you for having me on. I really hope you enjoy the book and I hope you all do too.
Kimberly: 42:59 Amazing love. Well, I look forward to connecting you with more and we’re gonna do that another show about your wellness. We have to, and people wanna know, wait a minute, she doesn’t have practices. Why is her skin so great? So next time we’ll talk about your skin.
Rachel: 43:12 Let’s do that. Let’s do
Kimberly: 43:13 That. I’ll write my
Rachel: 43:14 Love. Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed our show today with Rachel. As much as I enjoyed being in the conversation with her, be sure to pick up a copy of her new book, real Love. And please be sure to check out our show notes over at mysolluna.com where we will link to more information about Rachel and also some other podcasts I think you would enjoy. Articles, meditations, recipes, lots of, lots of goodies all over on our website. I’m also on social at underscore Kimberly Snyder. So we’ll be back here Thursday for our next Q&A podcast. Till then, take care. Sending you so much love and so much gratitude. Namaste.