This week’s topic: How to find your personality type of the Enneagram with Dr. Deborah Edgerton
Hi loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited, thrilled for our very special guest today. Today we have Dr. Deborah Edgerton, who is also known as Dr. E. And she has written this incredibly wise and interesting, fascinating book on Enneagram, the Enneagram system, which you will explain to us today. I am brand new to this system and was instantly fascinated with Enneagram made easy: Explore the nine personality types of the Enneagram to open your heart, find joy, and discover your true self. Dr. E., thank you so much for being here with us today.
Dr. Deborah Edgerton Best Selling Book
Topics Covered
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Enneagram System
02:30 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Integration
06:38 Stepping Out of the Comfort Zone for Growth
10:07 Exploring the Nine Personality Types of the Enneagram
15:46 Embracing the Power of the Divine Feminine Energy
31:58 Introduction
32:11 Exploring the Heart Center Types
34:09 Understanding the Inner Critic
35:09 The Importance of Validation and Approval
36:02 The Desire to Fix Others
43:34 The Power of Introspection and Community
About Dr. Deborah Edgerton
Deborah Threadgill Egerton Ph.D. is an Internationally Respected Psychotherapist, Best-selling Author and Unity and Belonging Advocate for the Healing of Humanity. Affectionately referred to as Dr. E, she has attained IEA Certification with Distinction for her groundbreaking utilization of the Enneagram in the realm of bridging historical divides. Her work is dedicated to dismantling marginalization and transcending the divisive practice of “othering”.
Dr. E serves as the President of the International Enneagram Association and extends her coaching and mentoring expertise to a diverse spectrum of individuals, including best-selling authors, top-tier executives, spiritual luminaries, accomplished therapists, and a myriad of thought leaders, each hailing from distinct and varied backgrounds. In her multifaceted roles as Consultant, Coach, Mentor, and Spiritual Teacher, Dr. Egerton guides humanity toward harmonious unification.
Dr. Egerton’s debut book, Know Justice Know Peace was featured on Amazon’s #1 Best Seller in New Releases. Dr. E’s most recent book Enneagram Made Easy is a guide to exploring all facets of the Enneagram and provides a deeper dive into each of the nine personality archetypes. The Enneagram Inner Work Journals are now available as a collection of nine companion workbooks designed to complement the insights found in Enneagram Made Easy.
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Transcript:
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
Kimberly Snyder (00:00.802)
Hi loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited, thrilled for our very special guest today. Today we have Dr. Threadgill Edgerton, who is also known as Dr. E. And she has written this incredibly wise and interesting, fascinating book on Enneagram, the Enneagram system, which you will explain to us today.
I was brand new to this system and instantly fascinated. Enneagram made easy. Explore the nine personality types of the Enneagram to open your heart, find joy, and discover your true self. Dr. E., thank you so much for being here with us today.
Deborah (00:47.074)
I am so happy to be here with you today, Kimberly. Just delighted.
Kimberly Snyder (00:53.062)
So Dr. E, we connected, it was like the universe brought us together in the lobby of a hotel when we were both there for the Hay House conference. And it was this instant connection. I could feel your heart. I could feel your energy. And I just said, whatever this woman is writing about, I want to know, I want to read her books. It was like a light went on.
Deborah (01:20.782)
I agree totally. I came back and I told my team, I said, I met the most amazing woman and we just had this instant connection. And I can’t wait to be on her podcast because I’ll get to see her again and we’ll get to have a great conversation.
Kimberly Snyder (01:40.714)
And I feel, first of all, there’s so much language that I, the way that you speak, Dr. E, and the way that you write is so resonant with everything I believe in. You’re talking about the true self, which was the subject of my last book. You’re talking about opening the heart, which is the subject of my next few books. So it feels like though we are coming together and rising up because it’s not just one of us that’s gonna help this collective, that many hearts have to come up. And you,
have been dedicating your life to this rising energy, this rising collective consciousness of humanity. You have this vision. Tell us about your vision of what society could be like Dr. E. As more of us turn to the heart, as more of us turn to this self-awareness and this work.
Deborah (02:30.486)
Well, you know, Kimberly, one of the interesting things about us as spiritual beings in human form is that we forget that we’re really here for each other. And in reality, if everyone remembered that, we wouldn’t have the chaos and confusion and the suffering that we have in the world.
If each individual person, rather than focusing just on what we want as individuals, if we recognize that there is a way to open our hearts and to understand that we need to embrace and love one another. And one of the things that I teach that many people are not aware of
is that we have three centers of intelligence. It’s not just our brain, it’s not just our thoughts, but there’s the wisdom of the head and the wisdom of the heart. And then of course, the wisdom of the body, which culminates in our instinctive center and our gut. And sometimes the choices that we make, you can see where we bypass the heart.
Kimberly Snyder (03:46.571)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (03:58.795)
Yes.
Deborah (03:58.826)
you know, we’ll have a thought, we’ll make a decision, we’ll think about it, but we won’t run it through the heart center, you know, and we won’t wait to see whether our intuitive center says, that’s a good way to go, you know, that’s what I call the full body yes, you know, my mind experiences it, my heart feels it, and my
Kimberly Snyder (04:19.38)
Mmmm
Deborah (04:26.346)
The wisdom of my gut says, yes, this is the way to go. That is a missing piece for much of humanity. One of my mentors, Russ Hudson, talks about this. He says, why be one third of a person? Why go through your life just being one third of a person, living out of one third of your intelligence, of your being?
Kimberly Snyder (04:28.962)
Mmm.
Deborah (04:56.53)
So the Enneagram brings that into play, into focus, that we have these three centers and they’re all designed to help us to make loving, kind, rational responses to life, circumstances, rather than irrational, reactive, unkind actions.
Kimberly Snyder (04:56.748)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (05:11.811)
Hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (05:20.662)
Mm. I love this so much, Dr. E. It’s so alignment with everything that I truly believe. And this wisdom that you’re bringing forth, before we get into more details around your system, you mentioned it’s pulled from many different wisdom and spiritual and religious traditions from around the world. There’s this convergence around the heart and tapping into the true self. And as you mentioned, when we’re one third of a person, we see what’s happening in society today.
where there’s massive confusion, there’s massive separation. So many people say to me, Dr. E, I don’t know what direction to go in. I don’t know what to do with my life. I don’t even know when I’m hungry, right? And so then what happens is we keep going outside of ourselves, we follow what everyone else is doing on social media, we’re just running around in circles and the fulfillment, the love and the connection.
all the things that we really want in life. It’s like we’re going through these emotions and living very unfulfilled lives. So what you’re creating here, what you’re giving us is a tool to heal that and not just get from point A to point B, but actually come in with this wholeness that is our birthright.
Deborah (06:38.134)
That’s correct. It is so much our birthright because actually, I define the enneagram in terms of energy. And so there are nine different points on the enneagram, and each of them has a distinct energy. And we’re born with one of them being our dominant point, the point that we lead from. And what’s so important about that is, you know,
I laugh because I call this the blueprint to your soul and the operating manual that you wish you had been born with. But whenever you find it, then you don’t have to sort of stumble around in the dark trying to figure out who am I and what’s my purpose and why am I here. You go deeper and deeper into the unfolding
Kimberly Snyder (07:15.831)
Mmm.
Deborah (07:36.534)
coming home to your authentic self. I say to people all the time, this concept of creating new versions of yourself. No, let that go. In reality, stop trying to be a version of anything. Be authentic self. You were created the way that you are for a reason. And…
Kimberly Snyder (07:56.627)
Yes.
Deborah (08:06.282)
Whoever you’re looking at thinking that you need to be that person, or you need to embody that person’s persona, no, that’s not you. It’s like trying to put on someone’s clothing that are too big or too small. You are enough exactly as you are, and you have a path that you can follow.
Kimberly Snyder (08:19.251)
Mmm.
Deborah (08:35.05)
that will lead you home to being comfortable with, number one, loving yourself, incredibly loving yourself, and two, recognizing that you belong. Never, ever, ever should we let anyone determine whether or not we belong. That’s our choice.
Kimberly Snyder (08:50.582)
Mmm.
Deborah (09:03.786)
That’s our decision to make. And in reality, unless you come home to yourself, you can never experience the true sense of belonging because if you’re not connected to yourself, you can’t really connect fully with anyone else.
Kimberly Snyder (09:17.454)
Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (09:25.49)
That’s right. And nothing fills that hole as much as we’re trying to create more money or success or followers. It’s just, it’s like, it just feels like you’re still paddling around on the surface.
Deborah (09:39.486)
That’s correct. You know, there’s the horizontal plane that we all have to navigate here in the world. But part of our life’s journey is really to integrate and go deep and understand the vertical plane, the integration of all parts of ourselves, the integration of our mind, our body.
Kimberly Snyder (09:58.897)
Mmm.
Deborah (10:07.522)
and the integration of self-love, which is not pampering, but really seeing ourselves, flaws, beauty, confusion, sometimes undecided and conflicted between our heads and our hearts and accepting and embracing all of who we are.
letting all parts of ourself know that they belong, that they serve a purpose, and releasing, it’s really important, releasing false narratives that we create about ourselves and about others, letting that go. That’s how you get back to a sense of truly understanding that you belong, you belong to yourself, you belong in the world.
Kimberly Snyder (10:39.73)
Mmm.
Deborah (11:04.53)
You have a place, you have a purpose, and you have incredible power should you choose to step into it.
Kimberly Snyder (11:13.314)
Hmm. Well, Dr. E, it sounds so vast and immense. A lot of the things that hold us back have to do with fear, right? And so one of the things you talk about in your book is self-preservation. And there’s also many different ways that we can enact control because we’re trying to play it safe, right? Whether that’s, I’m going to stay in this really safe relationship or
I’m just going to try so much at work because I’ll just stay in this very cushy place I can be, um, and just, just keep ourselves small and all these different pathways. So what would you say to someone that says, well, I want to listen to my heart. I know I’m not playing to the fullest ability, but I’m scared, or this is what feels familiar to me. And so, you know, I like to feel like I’m in control of my schedule in all these different ways.
How does someone break out of that? Let’s say they’ve been living that pattern for 20, 50, 60 years or more.
Deborah (12:16.31)
Yeah, true, very true. I look right at that person and I say, in very, very clear language, there is no growth inside your comfort zone.
Kimberly Snyder (12:32.583)
Mmm.
Deborah (12:33.406)
There just isn’t. If you want to stay in your comfort zone, then you can stay there and you can stay there afraid of being outside of the comfort zone. But if you want to grow, if you want to really live life, not just exist, but truly live.
And especially if you’re curious about your purpose, your contribution, you know, what were you put here for or what can you do to make the world a kinder, gentler place, then do it afraid. Step out of your comfort zone and do it afraid and recognize that all you need in terms of resources is the capacity.
to let go of the fear and to just see one step, one step ahead and to take that step. And once you recognize that you can take that step, then you can begin to move forward. But the whole notion of living your life inside of a safe little bubble and being small in that little bubble is a recipe for disappointment.
You know, it is the life not well lived that makes you feel the most that it might have been a life wasted.
Kimberly Snyder (14:13.006)
Mm.
Deborah (14:15.55)
Get out of your comfort zone.
Kimberly Snyder (14:17.674)
I love that. And that’s a direct message. And when you were using the word bubble, Dr. E, I can’t help but think about this song that Paramahansa Yogananda sang and taught us, which was, you know, I am the bubble, make me the sea, right? This little world, but once that pops, you realize this potential, this vastness of the true self of who we really are. And yet so many of us cling to our little, you know, safety mechanisms.
Deborah (14:47.978)
Exactly. You know, Miriam Williamson talks all the time about how we are not afraid of being powerless. We’re really afraid of our own power. And how important it is to own our power and to step into it. I think that this is particularly important in this season of time that we’re in right now when it comes to women.
Kimberly Snyder (14:59.529)
Right.
Deborah (15:18.502)
of looking at what it means to step into our power and looking at people who identify as non-binary and of course men, also understanding that there is a time for the, what I refer to as the divine feminine energy to really rise and to show up in the world.
And we’re there. We’re at that place right now where every woman, every human who supports the divine feminine and who wants to see the evolution of all of us as a species, it wants to see us elevate our consciousness. It’s time to pay attention and to step into our power and to find out what our purpose is.
Kimberly Snyder (16:12.662)
Mm.
Deborah (16:15.53)
You know, we all have one. I talk about the world as a mosaic. And each human being is a bright, shiny, brilliant, beautiful tile in this mosaic. And there are places where the mosaic is not quite complete. And it’s because there are people who haven’t stepped forward to put their tile in place.
And once you put yours in place, then everyone around you that their tile belonged in that section, then they can fit their tiles in as well. But we don’t have to all be alike. We need to be able to shine with the uniqueness of our authentic selves and to love and embrace our own authentic self.
Kimberly Snyder (16:46.306)
Beautiful.
Deborah (17:16.246)
and the authentic self of those around us.
Kimberly Snyder (17:20.042)
Hmm. What a beautiful perspective shift, a framework to see us working together as one art piece, because one thing Dr. Ian, I get goosebumps when you’re talking about coming into our power and helping each other rise up. There’s the other energy, which is competitiveness, judgment, which you talk about throughout your book. You know, it’s just these, these energies, which
make us look out through our eyes and think that we’re competing with other women in particular, or we judge if someone’s going a different path. And they actually hurt us. They keep us small when we engage. And that’s part of what you’re talking about with the shadow side of different personality types and the different points. Can you speak about kind of going more into the light side?
Deborah (17:56.246)
this.
Kimberly Snyder (18:12.274)
and how that can shift us away from these darker tendencies.
Deborah (18:16.714)
Well, you know, it’s one of the reasons that I love that I was gifted the finding of the Enneagram because it takes, it gives me a way to actually help people see that, you know, you have this personality archetype that your whole being is, you know, created around. And
you have a choice of how that energy is going to grow. You can either use that energy for good, or you can use it for chaos, confusion, and disruption in a bad way. So to be able to know what your energy is, your dominant point is, your enneagram type, is to look at the composition of
Kimberly Snyder (18:51.606)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (19:00.718)
Mmm.
Deborah (19:16.074)
your personality structure and to begin to understand how you move through the world. Once you understand that, then you can see the high vibration and the low vibration of your energy. And you actually have something that you can point toward. You know, the shadow side of every human being is something that has to be looked at.
has to be accepted and has to be worked with. But when you’ve done that work, where are you landing? What does the high side of you look like? And how do you maintain a high vibration in terms of actually caring, not only about yourself, but about others? So I think it might be useful just to demystify that a little bit.
Kimberly Snyder (19:48.692)
Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (19:57.787)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah (20:15.082)
There are nine different types on the Enneagram. And if we just run through them very quickly, just say, eight, nine, and one are body types. We are prone to action, kind of like to get things done. But the eight energy is strong leadership, charge the hill energy.
Kimberly Snyder (20:17.411)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (20:30.187)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah (20:43.326)
The nine energy is the peaceful, let’s bring us all together. Don’t disturb my peace and help me create peace. And the one is sort of the moral compass, do the right thing, care about the suffering, the pain, the confusion, but we can actually do something about that to heal humanity if we all come together and.
just do the right thing, act with a strong moral compass. Two, three, and four, when we look at the high vibration of those types, they’re heart types. They reside in the heart center where our feelings are. And what I can tell you about two, three, and four is that in the heart center at point two, you have beautiful humans who…
really live to not only be open to receiving love, but to give love, and to put as much love as they possibly can out in the world. At point three, you have people who are called the twos or the givers, the threes or the achievers, and at point three, there is this quest for success and for
There’s a lot of ambition and there’s a lot of wanting to be the best. But the high side of that is it’s also wanting to mentor you into being your best and to know that to be successful and to define success in compassionate and loving ways. At point four, we have the holders of the beauty in the world. We have people that
Kimberly Snyder (22:27.062)
Mmm.
Deborah (22:37.002)
have deep empathy and compassion for the world and for themselves as well. And they want to be unique. And their struggle is sometimes just around holding the pain and suffering of the world. But what they do with it is the creatives. They bring beauty back into the world because their experience of suffering
is transmuted into something creative and lovely and wonderful. And then we have five, six, and seven, which are the head center. And at point five, we have people who can look at the world and see all the ways that things are connected. And with that beautiful gift, they can actually
Kimberly Snyder (23:11.787)
No.
Kimberly Snyder (23:28.003)
No.
Deborah (23:33.418)
you know, focus and investigate and understand how to really embody knowledge in a really deep way, you know, not this surface horizontal stuff, but really a deep integration of how what happened in the past is connected to what’s happening in the present and where it may go in the future. And that’s the gift of the mind of a five.
Kimberly Snyder (23:57.11)
Mmm.
Deborah (24:03.182)
radiant energy of love and loyalty and preparedness, a structure of being able to understand that you have to have ways of doing things and understand how to do them and to be prepared for what inevitably might go wrong. And when six energy is in the picture, you can pretty…
Kimberly Snyder (24:24.571)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah (24:31.302)
Well, rest assured that at the high vibration at six, if something goes wrong, they’re prepared to deal with it. And they prepared not only for themselves, but for you as well. And then we come to point seven, where we have the enthusiast and at point seven, you have people who their energy is about joy and freedom, and they bring that energy with them.
Kimberly Snyder (24:39.524)
Okay.
Deborah (24:59.726)
into the spaces where they navigate. And the beauty of the energy at point seven is all about innovation and we can do it and we can do it differently. And we can also do it joyfully. And we can do it with a level of freedom and excitement and passion that it’s an energy that is unmistakable.
Seven can walk into the room and lift the whole vibe of everyone that’s there. So it’s beautiful to see these energies, but we have all nine of those energies within our own being. And one leads, one is definitely our home base, but we can do a much better job of learning how to play with all of those energies within ourselves.
Kimberly Snyder (25:41.902)
Mm.
Kimberly Snyder (25:57.634)
Thank you so much for that overview, doctor. And in the book, of course, you go into much more detail. I have a question. We do have a central point, but it shows, if you guys are watching this on our channel, if you’re listening to this, I’m holding up the diagram on Dr. E’s book on page four. And let’s say this one is your lead. Are there two other points? I think you call them wing points or sort of secondary energies.
Deborah (26:23.926)
So, keep holding that up so I’ll explain something. On either side of your dominant point are something that you call wings. So, point nine, nines have an eight wing and a one wing. So those are the types that kind of help to flavor the way that your particular dominant point shows up.
Kimberly Snyder (26:36.83)
Ah.
Deborah (26:52.938)
I always refer to it as your dominant point is the energy or the steak or the main course, but the wings are the seasoning that you choose to put on it. So you know, some people like teriyaki, some people like, you know, a little extra olive oil, you know. So the wings are the seasoning.
Kimberly Snyder (27:10.423)
Got it.
Deborah (27:21.29)
the lines and the arrows that are on that diagram, those are your stress and growth points. So if you look at eight, eight has a line that goes to two. That is the growth point for an eight who’s a really kind of tough leader, you know, strong, solid, resilient. But what’s behind all of that,
at the highest point at eight is the most innocent, pure, soft, beautiful heart. And then the five from eight to five, you see another line, that is the stress point. So when an eight is stressed, they will go to the stress point of five. And if they go to the low side of five, there’s a lot of anger.
Kimberly Snyder (28:01.336)
Yes.
Deborah (28:20.618)
frustration and resentment. But, and it’s sort of like, it can be very vengeful, but if an ape can pull themselves up to the high side of the energy of a five, where they become focused and they look at what all of the details and the real facts are, then they can soften their hearts and move over to their growth point and go to two.
where they’re embracing empathy and compassion and love. So it’s a journey and each of us, when we begin to navigate that journey, unlike personality assessments that give you a bunch of behaviors, what the Enneagram gives you is the why you do what you do. And then when you start looking at that,
Kimberly Snyder (28:56.077)
Mm.
Deborah (29:19.166)
You’re on that journey for life.
Kimberly Snyder (29:21.89)
Hmm. I love this Dr. E. Let’s bring this more to life. And I’ll share a little bit more about me, Dr. E. And maybe you can, for our listeners and our viewers, kind of give some information who know me quite well. So I’ll say I read through your book, Dr. E. And the ones that sometimes it’s hard to self, you know.
Deborah (29:39.082)
Yes, yes.
Kimberly Snyder (29:49.078)
diagnose ourselves or place ourselves, but the ones that definitely I felt like, okay, this is me somewhere in here were the heart ones. And I’ll share with you that I did have a, you know, core wound as a child feeling not seen or heard. And I experienced abandonment loss quite early, not literally, but my mother had to go back to work when I was about two weeks old.
And she was traveling very far and commuting. So I think very early on, I sort of felt abandoned, left on my own. And my parents are great people. They were trying their best, of course, but there was just a lot of hustle. Right. So I was left on my own a lot and I was a latchkey kid. So there was that core wound. And so I definitely associate, you said there’s the wings. I don’t know if it’s helper or achiever. So early on.
There’s always this one to help. And that’s where I’ve created my community with a free blog, which came into books and the company was, I want to share this, but there’s also this aspect here, Dr. E of achieving where I had to be number one in the class, right? I had to be perfectionist, which later then developed into eating disorders, wanting to be thin and managing my body. So there’s definitely an aspect of that. And I would definitely see the idealist.
in there where I want things or as I’m interpreting it to see things, how things could be when we’re living from the heart. So just for those little seeds, Dr. E or ask me any questions, where would you diagnose my enneagram is?
Deborah (31:27.658)
So here’s what I would tell you, is that I will never tell you what your Enneagram type is because I would be hijacking your journey. Part of the journey is discovering it for yourself. It sometimes breaks my heart when people come to me and say, you know, somebody told me that I’m this and.
Kimberly Snyder (31:39.796)
Ah.
Kimberly Snyder (31:48.324)
Mmm.
Deborah (31:55.986)
and now I’m really confused. And the challenge is that the finding of your type is so important to how you land in it and how you proceed on that journey. Now you’ve given me a lot of information that demonstrates some things that I can have you look at.
Kimberly Snyder (31:58.469)
Ugh.
Kimberly Snyder (32:11.179)
Mmmm
Deborah (32:25.994)
And I would definitely say look at the heart center types, which is look at two, three, and four, that’s the heart center. And remember and pay attention when you’re reading and what you might do is you might get any grand made easy on the audio book and listen to it. So sometimes just
Kimberly Snyder (32:50.324)
Mmm.
Deborah (32:53.61)
you know, reading it and then hearing it, it’s like, oh my God, how could I have not seen this? But listening to where you go when things aren’t going well for you. So for instance, when something really upsets you, what does that look like? What does it look like? What are your behaviors then?
Kimberly Snyder (33:21.95)
So I think if something happens at work, let’s say, um, like something’s upsetting or something’s behind, I think I go into doing mode, like, you know, let me do more, let me try to fix this. Um, just kind of, yeah, like doing, like things can feel a little bit more hurried and my voice will speak, you know, talk faster, um,
And also when you’re talking about the heart-based types, there’s that inherent sort of guilt or shame, you know, that I may turn it on myself or I didn’t do enough, you know, that beating up of that, you know, I call myself a recovering perfectionist. So I would say those are some of the tendencies that still arise.
Deborah (34:09.47)
So when you’re beating yourself up, what is, and we call that the inner critic, what is the inner critic saying to you? What are you hearing?
Kimberly Snyder (34:22.626)
Hmm. So it’s back to that doing this, that, you know, as a child, I think it was always like, let me do something. Let me show the worth. Let me show the achievements. Let me show the hundred on the test or whatever. So the inner critic will say you didn’t do enough.
Deborah (34:45.239)
Stay in that center, okay, and continue to look at those types. Now there’s something else that I’m curious about in terms of your wanting to maybe have people like you. How important is that to you?
Kimberly Snyder (35:09.634)
I would say it’s pretty important. You know, I like to have circles and I’m quite introverted, Dr. E, but I care, you know, whether it’s in the circle of friends or the parents or out in the world, I think it’s definitely validation, approval. Um, not as overtly as, you know, some people.
that may come to mind, but I think it’s definitely important. And if there’s any sense of like, oh, there’s something going on here. I really want to fix it, reach out, like smooth things over. Um, I’m not someone that likes to hold grudges or keep things unsaid. I like things worked out and out in the open for sure.
Deborah (36:02.21)
If someone, let’s say, rejects you, and you’ve tried very hard to actually be in relationship with that person, how far are you going to go to try to win that person over? Or will you look at it and say objectively, peace out?
Kimberly Snyder (36:31.882)
Well, Dr. E, this is a perfect example of this because I think I’ve had this tendency to be in relationships longer. And my ex, my last relationship before my husband, might’ve just drifted along, not being super close. I went into kind of fixing mode, I think. I can be the one to reach this icy heart. I can be the one to fix this situation. And as I’ve shared here before,
my mother passed away really suddenly. And it was sort of this epiphany of, from her diagnosis to when she passed from cancer, it was only six weeks. So it was sort of this awakening of wow, anything can happen at any time. And it sort of jolted me into looking at that relationship and saying, we’re not getting closer. This isn’t really what I want. And then I moved out some time.
after that. But for you to answer your question, I often, I think that to myself sometimes. And then I went on to find the love of my life. Thank God. Grateful every day for my husband John. But there was that, you know, keep trying. Let me figure this out. That went on far longer, perhaps. As an example.
Deborah (37:49.999)
Okay, yeah, that’s an excellent example. I will say this, I hear heart center, heart center, heart center, and it’s interesting because the heart center types show up in very different ways.
Deborah (38:17.126)
more prone to the people pleasing, trying to do everything for someone, trying to help them, trying to make them happy. And I also hear the ambition. Threes are the ones that tend to be very ambitious and those 100s that they can bring home and say, look at this, I did it.
You know, I knocked it out of the park. It was me. I got the number one slot. That just makes their heart sleep, particularly when people appreciate the effort that’s been put into achieving something.
Deborah (39:05.962)
The on the other side of two where you have one, that’s the perfectionistic one, the idealistic one. And that’s where you find the energy of wanting to fix other people. Really wanting to make the world a better place, just to do the right thing and I can help you be better whether you want me to help you or not.
Kimberly Snyder (39:21.072)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (39:27.169)
Yes.
Deborah (39:35.578)
I have to own that. That’s where I sit. I live in that spot. So my point on the enneagram is one. So I can definitely hear some elements of that as well. However, just in your early exploration, stay on that side of the enneagram. One, two, three, even look at four, because at…
Kimberly Snyder (39:55.862)
Mm-hmm.
Deborah (40:03.146)
point one there’s a connection to four that’s the stress point. So as a warm, using myself as an example, when I am stressed I will go to point four and at point four if I’m at the low vibration I’m a hot mess. I am in my big time melancholy. My
Kimberly Snyder (40:09.201)
I see.
Deborah (40:28.298)
pity party is so pretty that nobody can out pity party me in that moment. And I laugh about this because I need an audience for my pity party. It’s absolutely no fun if I am in my room crying my heart out because I’m hurting and my husband can’t hear me. You know, it’s like, okay, I’m gonna take this pity party out to the hallway so that he can hear it, you know, that I’m really upset.
Kimberly Snyder (40:39.426)
Ha ha ha!
Deborah (40:58.006)
Because what I want is to be seen and heard and loved and cared about in those moments. But when I was first learning about the enneagram and trying to find my type, it was interesting that when I heard the description of the four and that melancholy and that sadness and that feeling
Kimberly Snyder (41:02.926)
Hmm.
Deborah (41:26.65)
I’m the only person in the world who cares or sees how hurtful this situation is. I had the inner ding that said, oops, you know what that is. You know how that feels. And then on the high side of one, knowing that compass, integrity, doing the right thing,
are so very important so I could put the two together. So as you’re continuing your search, and here’s a question for you, what do you look like when you get mad, when you’re angry?
Kimberly Snyder (42:15.618)
Sometimes it’s internal and then sometimes it can be that faster, like my speech, this throat chakra can get sharp.
Deborah (42:29.245)
Okay, okay. So do you have a little bit of a switchblade tongue?
Kimberly Snyder (42:36.478)
I mean, here’s a question because it’s definitely mellowed and become gentler, which I think is my true self is a much more gentle feminine energy. So doctor, let’s say the environment we’re in creates tendencies, right? Like I still wanted my mother’s attention and validation, so I would show her the test because academia was so favored in my family that I would get that attention.
Deborah (42:49.238)
Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (43:05.398)
But now that I’ve healed so much of that mother wound and my, within myself, I don’t feel so achievement driven, right? And I healed eating disorders, I never weigh myself. I don’t think about things in that same way. So, is the core enneagram type sort of how our soul came in and it’s also shaped by environment or as we heal from our environment, the true self, can we then sometimes think, oh, I’m actually this enneagram type, right?
Deborah (43:34.082)
Oh, I love this. I love this. Yeah, I love that you’re asking these questions because this is where the big confusion, the big disconnect comes in for people in trying to find their enneagram type.
Kimberly Snyder (43:34.57)
My anchor. Yeah. It shifted.
Deborah (43:54.954)
The, your enneagram type came in with you. You know, I have three children. Do you have any children?
Kimberly Snyder (44:05.854)
I have two sons.
Deborah (44:07.622)
Okay, do they have the exact same personality?
Kimberly Snyder (44:10.986)
They’re very different.
Deborah (44:13.782)
So you understand that you can have two children being raised in the same home who have very different personalities. So something happened there. They came in with some differences, you know, there’s that sweet baby that, you know, when you go to pick them up they’re just laughing and they’re cooing at you and
Kimberly Snyder (44:24.328)
Yes.
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (44:31.957)
Yes.
Deborah (44:39.934)
Sometimes that’s the first one, which makes you think you want to have the second one who’s saying, excuse me, I don’t know what my brother told you, but everything’s got to change around here, people. I need more attention. And I’m going to go and scream until I get it, all right? So we have these different personalities, and they are at our core. So what I always tell people when you’re leaving your Enneagram type,
Kimberly Snyder (44:53.474)
Yeah.
Deborah (45:09.834)
back to who you were before all the therapy and the healing and the sort of inner work and the self-realization. Go back and look at your core self, your raw core self, because what happens over time is
Kimberly Snyder (45:14.533)
Mmmm
Deborah (45:36.97)
to quote Maya Angelou, when you know better, you do better. And so when we learn that certain things are not working for us, then we may change our approach. We will change the way that we try to move through the world. We recognize that there are things that need to be healed. And then once we heal them,
We come out as kinder, gentler human beings. We come out as the authentic sort of innocent human that we came into the world to be before life happened. So at the core, that personality archetype does not change. You just heal the wounds. You…
Understand that you may have a fire in the belly if you’re in, you’re a body type and anger is in the body type. But you know, that anger doesn’t control you, it doesn’t own you, it doesn’t run the show. You know, there are times when anger is appropriate, when to be angry is something that we have to look at and say, yeah, I’m angry.
Kimberly Snyder (46:50.227)
Hmm.
Deborah (47:04.63)
However, knowing that you’re angry and then taking the time to have an intentional response to anger is being unhealed and being reactive and constantly triggered. So that’s why this work is so powerful. There are so many people that will never see a therapist.
Kimberly Snyder (47:18.932)
Yes.
Deborah (47:32.062)
but can learn how to do this inner work and to find what’s on the inside. And Father Richard Rora says, that we have a responsibility to go down deep inside ourselves and to find what’s there, but to come back up and out and to take responsibility for all of it. So on your journey now,
Kimberly Snyder (47:58.67)
Mm.
Deborah (48:01.918)
What I’m saying to you, my prescription here is for you to go on the inside and find your slightly younger self and look at the reactions, the responses, the emotions, the feelings that you’ve had to work with over time.
to be as whole and healed as you are in this moment. And to revisit some of those feelings and tendencies and behaviors. So it would be like looking at how you’ve tended to respond to situations over most of the time.
Kimberly Snyder (48:40.188)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (49:01.07)
Got it.
Deborah (49:02.394)
It may be gentler now, but it’s still the same stuff that was there earlier. You see that?
Kimberly Snyder (49:08.292)
I see.
I do Dr. E. And so practically speaking, if someone is interested in the enneagram and I’m holding up here again, let’s just say, I’m not assuming, but let’s just say I’m a two, right? So would you suggest to create that, you know, higher self-awareness and the wisdom coming in, you would read two, you’d focus on two, but you’d focus on the wings either side and also the, you call it the growth and the challenge.
Deborah (49:38.879)
and the stress points. Yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (49:40.392)
So you’d focus on five points to read more deeply about.
Deborah (49:45.478)
Right. So yes, and there’s one other element of the Enneagram that is really, really important for, and it’s the subtypes or the instinctual stacking. You mentioned earlier self-presence. So in addition to our dominant point, our
Kimberly Snyder (50:03.357)
Yes.
Deborah (50:11.602)
wings and I teach that we’re all by wing will, you know, one wing may be a little like I’m a one with a very heavy two wing. But we have both of the wings. And we have these stress and growth points. But we also have these instincts that we have to be aware of and they are self preservation, social, or
Kimberly Snyder (50:25.674)
Yes.
Deborah (50:40.086)
sexual one-on-one, which is about intensity of connection. And when you look at your main point, your home base, your type, the instincts will sometimes help you to find your type if you really just can’t see it.
Kimberly Snyder (50:43.639)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (51:09.219)
Ah.
Deborah (51:10.254)
A person who is self-pressed has different priorities from a person who is social, from a person who is sexual one-on-one. And you want to look at those three things because it’s going to influence the way that you show up as a two or a three or a four or whatever the type is.
Kimberly Snyder (51:23.655)
Okay.
Kimberly Snyder (51:35.902)
Ah, so it’s another layer over any of the points. Got it.
Deborah (51:41.006)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And you have all three of those instincts, just like you have all nine types within you. However, one is the one that’s right there on top, the one that you get to easiest. And then the one, there’s one that’s in the middle. And so you can kind of, you know, that flips up when you need it.
The one that’s on the bottom is the one that we call, the one that we don’t have clear line of sight to. And it’s important to do some work around that if you happen to not be, have much of that instinct that’s alive in your being. So that’s more of the deeper work. But just start with the nine types and
Kimberly Snyder (52:30.879)
Yeah.
Deborah (52:37.766)
look at those stress and growth points, I would say that’s more important to look at that than the wings. Yeah, more important to look at where does your energy flow and go? Where does it flow and go? You know, when it’s not going so well, what does it look like? Does it go when you read the
Kimberly Snyder (52:44.75)
Got it.
Deborah (53:07.518)
has gone to the stress point or what we actually call the levels of development is acting from a lower level of development. What does that look like? And does that sound like you? When you are operating at an average or a high level of development, your higher frequency, what does that look like? Does that look and sound like you? And that’s the first, that’s the way I advise for people.
to engage the journey.
Kimberly Snyder (53:39.914)
And what a journey it is, Dr. E, this is an incredible manual. And Yogananda, who I often quote from says that one of the greatest, um, let me paraphrase here, one of the greatest, uh, pathways to progress is introspection. Right. We have to know ourselves. We have to turn that search light in. Like he says, we want to dive deep. We understand, we need to understand more deeply how we can, how we tech.
to make more of a positive impact on the planet. So thank you so much, Dr. E, for sharing about your amazing book, which once again is called Enneagram Made Easy. And just for any of you guys watching this, I’m just gonna show how these charts are laid out. And I love the boxes. I love the organization of the book, Dr. E, because you can really reference and you can call out the authentic self, the shadow self.
It’s so funny because I was reading the book early this morning. And I know you said not to self-diagnose others, but there was a box that really reminded me of my husband. I’ll just say that. And I screenshot it and I sent it to him and he said, what is this? And I said, does this sound familiar? I’m reading this Enneagram book and he’s like, I want to read more about that. So I know we don’t want to do that to others, but it was just so funny. My husband and I always kind of send things back and forth and he, he works at home too, he’s over there in the guesthouse.
But it’s like…
Deborah (55:05.182)
Well, I’ll tell you what, I’ll be happy to work with you and your husband a little bit to sort of, you know, because otherwise sometimes when, like I said, I don’t want you to hijack his journey, just like I’m not going to hijack yours, but I can spend some time with you, giving you some little pointers on how to get there. And I have a wonderful
Kimberly Snyder (55:11.892)
Uh…
Kimberly Snyder (55:21.247)
Yes.
Deborah (55:33.274)
surprise that I’ll share with your listeners. The individual inner journal, the inner work journals are coming out May 21st. So once you, yeah, once you’ve you figure out what your Enneagram type happens to be, then you can order your individual type inner work journal. And we’re
Kimberly Snyder (55:44.661)
Amazing! Perfect!
Deborah (56:05.744)
in June where people can come. I want to bring people together in community so that ones can talk to ones and twos can talk to twos and I can prompts and then you can go talk to the fours learn more about the fives. And so I think that that’s going to make the journey easier. You know, we
Kimberly Snyder (56:16.324)
Ah!
Deborah (56:32.19)
We grow and we learn in community. And inner work really is very difficult to do by yourself because you can fool yourself. You can tell yourself and rationalize and not release false narratives and make up stuff and speculate. But when you work in community, the connection that we already have
Kimberly Snyder (56:40.546)
Hmm
Yes.
Deborah (57:02.294)
to one another becomes more tangible. You know, we’re already connected, but when we come together in community, we have that tangible experience of the connection. And for me, that’s part of my life’s work is to bring people together in a spirit of love and connection and belonging.
Kimberly Snyder (57:07.168)
Beautiful.
Kimberly Snyder (57:17.559)
Mm.
Kimberly Snyder (57:22.702)
Mmm.
Kimberly Snyder (57:27.998)
Mm, so beautiful, Dr. E. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your heart with us. Thank you for your beautiful book. Tell us more where we can learn about your work and joining your communities and also getting your book.
Deborah (57:46.454)
Well, you can find everything you need to know about me on Deborah Egerton. It is D-E-B-O-R-A-H. The, not the more current way of spelling it. And Egerton is E-G-E-R-T-O-N. People love to put Ds in it and extra Gs in it, but it’s E-G-E-R-T-O-N.com.
Kimberly Snyder (58:02.815)
Ha ha!
Deborah (58:13.39)
and everything that I’m doing is located on the website. There’s an Enneagram quiz on the website that I invite all of your listeners to just come in and take the quiz, hold the results lightly. Remember, our ability to be truly honest with ourselves is somewhat limited. So if there’s four multiple choice and it says,
Kimberly Snyder (58:27.414)
Wonderful.
Deborah (58:42.966)
I am sweet and kind, I am mean and stingy. Everybody is sweet and kind. Isn’t that interesting? So you have to be able to answer honestly. And like I said, hold those results lightly, whatever result you get, then look at that particular type and read about it, because it’s just to maybe by a process of elimination, get you in the right neighborhood, but it may not give you the exact right.
So I invite listeners to come and do that. Let your husband do that too. And let him find his own type.
Kimberly Snyder (59:13.461)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (59:22.486)
You’re right. Quizzes are so great. They’re so fun and they’re so accessible. So I love that Dr. E, we will link also directly to Dr. Edgerton’s site on the show notes. So in case you got a little, and here’s the book again, you’ll see this beautiful bright blue color, but in case the spelling got off, you can go over to mysaloon.com and we will link directly there. Once again, Dr. E, thank you so much for all your amazing work.
Deborah (59:27.699)
Yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (59:51.914)
I cannot wait to dive in deeper into what I believe is my area, as well as my other points that connect. So I think this is such a powerful tool and I love the way that you write. There’s this deep connection and wisdom really pouring out of it. So thank you once again so much, Dr. E, for joining us today.
Deborah (01:00:17.246)
Thank you for having me. This was just a joke.
Kimberly Snyder (01:00:24.412)
Oh, Dr. E, I feel your heart. I love you so much. And my loves listening to this or watching this, thank you so much for joining us. As always, please check out the show notes and we will be back here Thursday for our next Q&A show. So till then, sending you much love. Take great care of your unique, amazing self.
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