Navigating a Good Death for Ourselves and Loved Ones with Suzanne O’Brien [Episode 1001]

 

 

This Week’s Episode Special Guest: Suzanne O’Brien 

Summary: 

In this conversation, Suzanne O’Brien RN discusses the profound themes surrounding end of life, emphasizing the importance of forgiveness, acceptance, and living well. She shares her journey as a doula for the dying, the phases of dying with dignity, and the significance of community support for caregivers. The discussion also touches on cultural perspectives on death, empowering conversations about end of life, and the need for planning and voluntary choices. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the interconnectedness of life and death, encouraging listeners to embrace both with love and understanding.

 

About 

Suzanne B. O’Brien, RN is and author and Founder & CEO of Doulagivers Institute. Her life’s mission is to increase access to high quality end of life education and care for patients and families throughout the world. She has developed free resources and trainings for family caregivers and practitioners from her firsthand experience as a hospice and oncology nurse and palliative care professional at the bedsides of more than 1,000 end of life patients.

Suzanne has been awarded “Worldwide Leader in Healthcare” by the International Nurses Association for creating Doulagivers Institute and was named Humanitarian Ambassador for Oprah Magazine in 2019 for her work to bring peace and comfort to those facing the end of life around the world. She has a degree in Transpersonal Counseling and Spiritual Ministry from the Association for the Integration of the Whole Person in Los Alamitos, California. She is also a founding member of the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization’s End of Life Doula Council and a founding member and Former VP of the National End of Life Doula Alliance.

 

Guest Resources:

Website: Doulagivers Institute

Book: The Good Death: Supporting Your Loved One Through the End of Life

 

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Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to End of Life Care
02:47 The Journey to Hospice and Doula Work
05:58 Phases of Dying and the Importance of Forgiveness
08:55 Understanding Death Across All Ages
11:48 The Shift in Perspective on Death
15:02 The Spiritual Aspect of Dying
18:11 Practical Approaches to End of Life Planning
20:53 Living Well Aging Plans and Family Dynamics
26:58 The Burden of Caregiving
28:32 Quality of Life vs. Longevity
30:29 Living Wills and Quality of Life Decisions
32:46 Holistic Approaches to End-of-Life Care
34:35 The Essence of Life and Death
36:28 Lessons from the Dying
37:52 Choosing Love Over Fear
39:57 The Power of Presence and Service
41:44 Empowerment Through Knowledge
43:29 Voluntary Choices at End of Life
46:21 Dula Givers Institute and Community Support

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Transcript: 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:00.792)
Welcome back everyone to our Monday interview show. I am so excited for our very special guest here with us today, the lovely Suzanne O’Brien RN. She has this new book out, which I have read cover to cover and I’ll add it did make me cry. I parts, which we’ll talk about in just a little bit. It’s called The Good Death, a guide for supporting your loved one through the end of life. Suzanne is the founder and CEO of the Dula Givers Institute.

In 2019, she was named humanitarian ambassador for Oprah magazine for her work to bring peace and comfort to those facing the end of life around the world. Suzanne is also a founding member of the National Hospice and Palliative Care Network, organization of life doula council and a founding member and former vice president of the National End of Life Doula Alliance. Suzanne, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (00:46.631)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You got it.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (01:00.669)
Thank you for having me and I love the title of your podcast and everything you talk about because really when we talk about a good death, we’re talking about a good life. They’re not exclusive of one another. So I just want to invite people to have an open mind for this conversation. It’s not going to be depressing.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:09.518)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:15.798)
No, it’s certainly not. And thank you for pointing that out. I love how you talk about that in the book about this, you the beauty of life, but also the beauty of acceptance and non-resistance and death. And it’s interesting. So much was created in the wake of my mother’s somewhat abrupt passing, Suzanne, including saloon on my brands and getting serious about the feel good podcast, which is really to me feeling good is this natural connection.

that we have inside of ourselves. And it’s not dependent on trying to get things from the outside or validation, but just this natural birth rate I think we really have in our hearts and our ability to care for ourselves. And your book is so aligned with that. And yeah, I’d love to share, there were so many moments in your book that it brought me back to that time with my mother where I really was shocked. She passed six weeks after her diagnosis and…

My son wasn’t a year old and my older son, like all sorts of things were going on. and your book is so thorough and it really goes from all aspects into even the very practical. But before we jump into that, know, even reading your bio and as a registered nurse, seeing how you shifted and reading the book, it’s just interesting how, or what brought you specifically to focus on hospice care and.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (02:16.188)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:42.104)
being a doula for the dying and working through this aspect of life.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (02:47.643)
It chooses you. It chooses you. And I think you really started this conversation with exactly what I feel like we’ve learned about life is working with those at the end of life allowed me to immediately realize that we are a human and a being. There’s two parts to us. There’s the human experience that we go through this journey, all the life lessons, all of the experiences to grow for growth, for learning. And then there’s the being part of us. And when you said that the

happiness and the joy is not found outside. You’re right, it’s found inside with a connection to that being part, which is always at home, which is always at peace. And it’s like a muscle that you need to, you know, exercise and strengthen. But I think in our world today, we don’t even know about the two parts. We know about the ego part, we know about the separate part, and you can see the chaos that it’s leading to. So,

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (03:24.206)
Hmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (03:43.559)
To answer your question, I am a registered nurse by trade and I was six months out of nursing school in the mainstream hospital and I realized I will never get the fulfillment. This is awful. I had very little time with patients. It was about pushing medications, doing paperwork. The patient and the family were really sometimes the last in the discussion in the meetings. And I thought, what am I gonna do? I’m three years in, student loans, what am I gonna do? And I heard this little voice that said, to hospice.

And I said, why am I hearing that? I have no end of life experience. But when I heard that there was a piece, there was an excitement, there was an expansion. And I said, you know what? I’ve tried everything that people say. I followed all of the things that they said. And I said, I don’t know what this is, but I’m just gonna follow it and see. And the very first day I went out to see hospice patients, I knew I was in the exact place I was supposed to be in my life. And I also said, that’s how life works. Not what do I think I’m supposed to be doing, but where am I being guided? What do I know?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (04:19.566)
and then.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (04:38.914)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (04:42.678)
What a beautiful heart story, Suzanne. I love that and that clarity. I was reading this. We have these comic books of great figures and I was reading the one about Mother Teresa to my sons. And there was this moment when she was on the bus, or no, she was on a train and she heard a voice similarly to you saying, move to the slums. You were meant to move out of the convent and go there. And she was like, no other nun has gone there. Like, what do I do? But it’s that when we open up to that,

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (04:43.965)
Mmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (04:55.027)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:12.558)
that light, that intuition, whatever we want to call it, that voice, it does lead us to this life of great purpose and fulfillment, which clearly you have found so much purpose in your work, Suzanne.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (05:27.207)
And Kimberly, it’s so interesting because that day, you know, I had found it being in this end of life space. And if you had told me today that I wouldn’t be a bedside hospice nurse, I wouldn’t have believed you then. But because I knew that when this voice comes in, this is the higher guidance system. And I was always going to listen to it. And it’s just when you trust in that, when you follow your heart guidance, it will lead you on a journey that is not only fulfilled and full of purpose and service, but just

miracles big and small and joy and just the splendor of what’s available in this experience.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:58.402)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:02.038)
And you talk about these three phases of dying with dignity and having a good death, shock, stabilization and transition. And we could talk about these more, but what really stood out to me was how much in the stabilization phase you talked about forgiveness. And I was reading that and I was thinking, oh my gosh, how key. And there was a lot of exchanges between me and my mother when she was passing.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (06:06.994)
Mmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (06:12.647)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:30.018)
But also, Suzanne, back to living well, how important that is even when we’re not confronted with death, right? Instead of this big wake up call. Of course, for some, it’s going to come at that moment, but there’s lessons in here for, I think, just on the flip side, like living to that fullness in life.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (06:49.873)
Yeah, Kimberly, when people are at the end of life and they’re sharing with you what they want you to know about how to make life the best experience possible, they’re not trying to sell you anything. They don’t care if you take it or not. They’re just purely, it’s the wisdom. I immediately changed my life. mean, every day I live like one little lifetime, like knowing that time is my greatest commodity. I don’t miss the joyful moments, the connection, presence, but also forgiveness.

So when I saw the transformation at the end of life, and I really feel as people’s physical bodies are diminishing, their spiritual body’s growing, and you can see that things wanna be worked out with acceptance and processed before they leave if it’s possible, the profound transformations that I saw led to the most beautiful end of life with forgiveness. And I said, okay, I am making a list. I am thinking about what am I not addressing or what have I been carrying with me that I’m not even aware of? And I’m gonna forgive. And I will tell you, it-

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (07:15.566)
Mmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (07:44.421)
sets you free in a way to design and co-create your life with no limitations and with just the most beautiful energy possible. And so yeah, it changed my life completely.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (07:56.782)
Amazing. know, and I, there’s so much in your book where you talk about this, kind of this, I don’t say falsity, but this idea that we must prolong life as much as possible. And I remember with my own mother having to be faced with things like do not resuscitate, which I learned could break their bones and only extend life for a short amount of time. And, you know, there’s just so much,

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (07:58.002)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:26.44)
reframing life. But this is, you know, it’s a little bit, not more clear, but we can say, okay, our elderly, our parents, and you talk about in the book how the statistics are going to skyrocket with the elderly ratio of the United States. But what about Suzanne? Surely you’ve worked with families where it’s people in their 20s, their 30s, their 40s, children, teenagers, right? Where it’s not the end of life. And it feels, there’s that other element of like, feel a little robbed, right?

Because it’s one thing to, if you’re dealing with an elderly parent, but to have that peace when you realize someone may have a terminal illness and they’re only 23 years old.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (09:05.116)
Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve had, you know, all ages. And I think that if I may, think that one of the main things that I’m always trying to say, okay, what is the ask, right, of the big picture for what I’m supposed to be doing here and teaching. I really believe it’s to remind people and have them remember that death used to be revered and is a sacred natural rite of passage.

And with the awareness of that, it opens us up to really, I feel like expanding like, well, what is life about and what are the important things? But to make sure that we’re not missing it. Cause the number one thing I hear from people at the end of life is I thought I had more time and the regrets. And it’s not what they did do so much as what they didn’t do. And even if you, and then if Kimberly, if I can go really high up in big vision about the gifts within.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:44.824)
What?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (09:56.613)
every experience that we have and some do not look like gifts by any means. But when we have those, what I call the little masters, when there is somebody who’s having their end of life, I believe that there is teachings for all of us that are part of that, not just for the comfort, but just to come to place of acceptance. And I remember there was this one little girl and she was dying and she told everyone what exactly what she wanted them to do, how she wanted to be celebrated. She wanted them to dress in pink.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:19.118)
Thank you.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (10:25.703)
that she wanted them to sing songs. Like she was guiding all of them. It’s pretty amazing what you experience in this space or can.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:36.17)
Yes, and there’s this transcendence, right? And goes back to our personal beliefs. I personally believe this isn’t it and that we have, there’s life beyond and so there’s a higher plan. Sometimes we don’t understand it and that can, hell, mean, in the moment there’s so much pain, but kind of smooth over the unfairness aspect. it is, we can come to peace if we can believe it. In some way, somehow it’s someone’s time to go.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (10:45.469)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (11:04.618)
And I remember Suzanne with my mom, the moment my prayers changed from, you know, please heal her. She had this cancer diagnosis, seemingly out of nowhere. I was in February, like the day after my birthday, my parents called. We’d seen her at Christmas and only once did she say, I’m kind of tired. She just sort of held it in. And I was like, no, no, we can heal her. We could do this with the diet and da da. And then there was this moment. It was just something inside me realized and accepted and it switched to, you know, God, please grant her peace.

And it was such a big shift and acceptance and all these profound gifts did open up because I think, like you said, it’s the number one fear. have so much resistance and we want to hold on. And that’s not always the plan.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (11:50.099)
I think that goes back to the fact of us being human beings, right? The human part of us wants to kind of control the show, right? And then we also have a lot of things happening at the same time. We have doctors that are trained to fix it and they’re expected to fix it, which is an impossible goal that they have to meet. But we’re not even talking about this because the time to choose, and I’ll use myself as an example, what quality of life is to me and realizing that one day the journey will not be as I know it today.

allows me when I get there to already have a pathway for it, to already know, like for instance, I’m here with my parents, they’re both 86, God bless, and I’m so grateful that I have them. But there’s a level of gratitude and patience that I have with every minute that we’re together, because it’s a gift. And I know that one day that won’t be there. And so it won’t be such a shock and it won’t be me grasping and us grasping for different things because we talked about it.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (12:42.786)
Thank

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (12:45.479)
So what about again, bringing back the awareness that one day the journey will not be as I know it today so that when we get there, we hopefully don’t go down pathways and roads that we don’t want to that we know won’t reverse it, but could also be causing more suffering or even false hope for people. Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:01.186)
Right. And part of that is sort of just, let’s never talk about this. Like it’s taboo. Let’s like pretend we’re going to live forever.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (13:08.742)
Yeah.

That, yeah, and that doesn’t work. I mean, if anyone knows anything differently, I’ve never seen anyone, but I also know that I’ve seen the most beautiful things happen at the end of life. You’re literally at the veil. And I’ve had people share with me what they’re seeing, the peace that they’re seeing, the love and what I have felt in the room, and time disappears as you and I know it. There is no doubt.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:25.004)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:30.519)
Huh.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (13:37.757)
that there is something so incredibly in my mind beautiful that’s gonna happen after because I’ve been with over a thousand people at the end of life. So what is this life about? What are we missing from that awareness and education and wisdom of end of life to make life as rich and beautiful and connected as possible?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (13:56.408)
can only imagine Suzanne being with so many souls that have passed. For me, was only my mother, well, only, but I did have the gift of holding her in my arms as she passed. And then, my dad was near the window. And as you describe in the book, the breath just started to slow and then expire. But it was really profound moment where it didn’t feel like death. I felt like her energy just kind of like moved and forever.

I think of death very differently, just as a transition. I know she’s still somewhere.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (14:33.075)
Absolutely. Absolutely. like, you know, when we talk about cultures for thousands of years, knowing this and having this be a sacred ritual, you know, we’ve lost the ritual around it. We’ve lost the time thinking of bringing a baby into the world. Very similar in the same importance and sacredness as helping somebody to leave with love and with comfort. There were two times, Kimberly, in my journey that I literally saw someone leave their body, what I would say, leave their body.

You know, the things you see and what you feel, let you know that there’s so much more going on. And that to me is so healing and people the end of life talking about how we’re all connected to one unconditional loving energy. Yeah, it’s just, you know, we need to bring that education back, that awareness back to our world. And also we’re suffering from such traumatic grief as a collective, because we’re not talking about end of life, it shows up, it’s a shock.

usually doesn’t go that well because of scrambling and then people are stuck in this grief. We need to talk about this and it teaches us about life.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (15:40.578)
Well, you know, what was so clear to me, Suzanne, was when my prayer changed as I explained, it was about me. I was like, please heal her because I want her here. And then when it changed to let her have peace, it was like, this soul is ready to go. And they’re seeing amazing things and they’re at that veil. So I think what your book sort of reframes as well is stepping out of that Mimi, because let’s face it, a lot of the losses.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (15:48.765)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (16:09.102)
you know, we want to talk to that person and we miss having them around and there’s validity in that. And I feel that too. And there’s moments I was like, gosh, I can’t call my mom. But then when we expand into the oneness, into the eternalness, it’s like, the non-attachment comes in, which is such a profound lesson.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (16:12.635)
Of course. Of course.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (16:26.181)
It’s such a profound lesson what you just shared, you know, the grace in which you brought into this experience and the re focusing on her and the love that was there and how how may I show up to support her in this dynamic and it just changed.

all the frequency around everything. But I do honor you because when something shows up quickly, there’s a process, there’s a shock right now. And this is really one of my main platforms is to try and educate before we ever get there. Even children have their pets dying. so age appropriately, think one of the best things we could ever do is talk about the cycle of life with nature and animals and how we’re all connected.

because what we’re seeing right now is the removal of that and then the fear that has been ingrained in people that is unfortunately again preventing them from having these meaningful last chapters with their loved ones as they’re leaving the physical body, which is so important for us to be able to have if that’s what we can do.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:26.414)
What would you say to someone listening or watching this, Suzanne, if they’re like, oh, I want to know, but reading about this, I don’t want to manifest death. I don’t want to think about losing my mom or losing my dad or losing a loved one. What would you say about how on the flip side, this could actually be really empowering to have this information?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (17:45.777)
Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that it’s not going to bring it on. It’s not talking about sex doesn’t make us pregnant. you know, talking about end of life doesn’t. But I will say this from a very, and you really talked about this, book being very practical in its education, but also sacred and spiritual as well. That the we’re all going to be called to show up to care for somebody at the end of life at some point in the journey, knowing how to do that.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:12.908)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (18:14.267)
knowing how to do that changes everything. And I also want to remind us that a hundred years ago, this was a skill that a grandmother used to teach to a grandchild. People died at home, they had home wakes. This is a holistic skill. This is not medical. And we’ve given over our end of life to the medical profession. First of all, they can’t fix it. They’re not supposed to, but it also allows us to not be able to be in that process with our loved one.

Knowing what my mom wants, where she wants to be, warm blankets, what kind of music, having those conversations, that’s something that I want to provide for her and it’s so healing and we can all do that. And you’re going to feel as much as it’s going to be difficult, and I know it is, when we say goodbye to that physical person, knowing that you were there, helping them to lead this world in comfort, you’re going to hold that in your heart for absolutely ever in the most beautiful way.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:45.838)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:02.232)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:10.646)
You know, when I had this, every time I keep referencing your book to my experience because it comes from such direct knowing about this experience, Suzanne, like this, can feel your heart in this book and how, you know, how you’ve really been leading people through this. Cause I’m like, yes, I remember that moment. I remember that moment. And there was a time where my mom stopped speaking and I just said, Hey, squeeze your hand. If you can hear what I’m saying.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (19:20.317)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:37.482)
She squeezed and squeezed and she looked me in the eye and I had two hours to just tell her everything.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (19:47.165)
There’s a few things that I want to share with your listeners and with you now is that people, want to make sure that you understand people can hear you even when they’re in a deep sleep coma. But I want to take it a step further. People can hear you now. You know, if we think about quantum physics, right? And we talk about energy and they’re really finding out a lot in this world. But I always go with what is your heart saying, right? What is your gut saying? Energy cannot be destroyed. It has to be a solid, a liquid or a gas. Your loved one has changed for.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:56.109)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:59.66)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:16.237)
Yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (20:16.591)
Your loved one is still around you. Maybe as Oprah says, and I have to give her a little bit of props here, she talks about when her birth mother died, she feels her now more loving and stronger in a relationship than she ever did. And I know that I have heard that from families as well, when their loved one has stopped breathing in the body and they’ve slowed down and taken time, hours, if not hopefully days, they have felt their presence of so much love. They’re always with us.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:31.0)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:44.83)
Yes. yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (20:45.937)
You can call upon them at any time. Yeah, it’s beautiful.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:49.154)
Well, and also my son, was my older son, who was an infant when she passed for at least the first year, year and a half, he would wake up in his crib and be pointing to one corner there, Lola, Lola. Like it was she was right there with the family. And also in invaded culture, Suzanne, I’ve never said my my mom died. Right. They say, you know, the body dies. She passed on. Right. So that feels more accurate to me when I say, you know, she’s transitioned, she’s passed.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (21:00.221)
yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (21:19.197)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:19.31)
Because I really, you know, my personal belief is that we don’t actually die, our soul.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (21:23.963)
Yeah, I had, we had somebody from our institute, Dooligivers Institute have their end of life. They had really bad COVID. She had comorbidities, but she had a little bit of an unexpected at the time. And what came out of my mouth when I was telling everyone is she changed form. She changed form. You know, it was just, and she did. I mean, she’s in, and she was suffering. So she had so much chronic pain that, you know, grateful for that, but there’s nothing, there’s no.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:31.107)
Thank

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:37.507)
Beautiful.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (21:49.319)
doubt in my mind. And one of the things, Kimberly, that commonly happens at the end of life, there’s a few indications that let us know that somebody’s getting very close to leaving their physical body, is that they talk about seeing loved ones who’ve died already. And this is again, to me, something that I’ve seen so many times with my patients that it almost makes sense as they’re dropping the physical body and their frequency is changing, right? And getting closer to leaving that they have one foot in this world and one of the next, and they can see us.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:02.574)
Hmm?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:18.157)
back.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (22:18.759)
and they can see others and the babes, our young ones, still have that energy. They still have a lot of that. So they can see your mom. They have that beautiful ability. And can’t we talk more about this because I’ve had people from all over the world in all different cultures and religions say the same thing. And if we all knew how common that was, would we be so afraid of death? I’m gonna say absolutely not.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:27.63)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:40.419)
Mm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:45.134)
Mm-hmm. And going back to some of the practical aspects in your book, I love this section about living well aging plans. A, B, and C. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of these aging plans and some of the things they entail?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (22:57.649)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (23:04.421)
I can, and thank you for highlighting that because the minute that I stepped into nursing over two decades ago, I was waving a flag saying, wait, we have an elder care crisis here. People will be coming in the hospital, nobody’s with them. It was terrible. demographic, so in the last hundred years, we’ve made wonderful medical advances. On one sense, that’s great. On the other sense, we’ve completely forgot that end of life is a natural part of the cycle and teaching doctors how to support that part of it.

So as we are aging longer and longer, 100 years ago, the average age of life was 46, today it’s 80, so it’s almost doubled. With that, there’s going to be challenges, meaning cognitively we don’t know how we’re gonna be, physically we don’t know how to be, financially we don’t know how we’re gonna be. And so what I say to people is make yourself, including myself, make a plan A, B, and C. And A would be the most ideal thing that you want, right? To be in New York City, to be able to go to shows and to go to Central Park and do whatever you wanna do.

takes money and takes a level of functioning. If that wasn’t possible, what would be a plan B? Possibly, you know, having a little granny pod in the back of your child’s house or something in the mid range that’s doable. And then of course, plan C is if you needed 24 hour care and you also maybe had no real financial assets. Making sure you have that so that you’re covered.

And those can be changed, you know, as you’re going. I mean, that’s what I work with people. And I don’t think that people are aware of how expensive it is to actually live and to age. I mean, it’s really, it’s not, yeah, it’s, but bringing back options like Granny Pods or do houses and communities, or again, multi-generational living possibly. I mean, these are things that we want to explore and we want to explore them now.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:42.38)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:57.794)
That’s right. And, you know, my friend Dan Buettner, who’s been on here a couple of times, Susanna, who’s discovered the blue zones, talks about how in a lot of these cultures, they are living, you know, with these different generations in homes. But also in certain cultures, there’s less neurocognitive decline with diseases like Alzheimer’s. I have a couple friends who at the moment are really struggling because their parent wants to stay at home. They would like to have them at home.

But then there’s a reality of Alzheimer’s, turn on the stove, sometimes they forget it’s on. Like there’s safety issues. Because you talk about some specific diseases in the book as well.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (25:31.857)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (25:37.363)
Yeah, I will. I do. I cover diseases and dementia is such a difficult one for so many reasons. And that also, again, just a little through line about quality of life and also living well, you know, our nutrition and our diet and all the things that we can do to help, you know, keep our cognitive function going. But I will say that safety is my only non-negotiable.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:03.17)
right.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (26:03.651)
And I want families to know this too, that sometimes it’s just not possible. And if it’s not safe, that’s a deal breaker because safety has to come first. So, you know, there are ways, and again, the earlier we can see what the options are, the better. Maybe having mom, you know, somewhere close that we can go visit every day or something of that nature to do a little combination. you know, safety cannot be negotiated because really, really terrible things can happen. And we, of course, want to avoid all those.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:13.326)
Right.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:32.312)
That’s right. So it’s, you know, back to planning, practical, and sitting with things because there’s the emotional, like, I don’t want to imagine this happening, but also preparing and having these moments.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (26:33.298)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (26:45.595)
And yeah, for sure. And Kimberly, for one thing, I have to say that caregiving cannot and should not ever be done by just one person. I think we really need to understand the plight. I’m gonna get emotional now. I’m emotional anyway, because I love this conversation. It’s so heart centered and important.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:54.039)
Right.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (27:04.551)
but there are so many caregivers that are locked in their house alone, not knowing what to do. mean, AARP, who I’m working with with caregivers right now, they said there’s 54 million caregivers in the US alone. 70 % of them said that they are overwhelmed and don’t know what to do. I hear from them all the time. We know what just happened with Gene Hackman. That’s one example that we know about, that caregivers are just locked in houses and it…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:08.654)
Hmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (27:30.181)
If you have an extended family, if you are a community member and you know where you can pitch in to help somebody, even with a couple hours of respite, even as a sounding voice, we really have to get more back into community, taking care of community. Again, because we can all do that.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:43.906)
Yes.

You know, it feels like people talk about the isolation of the new mom a lot, right? But lot of people aren’t necessarily talking about, like you said, on the other end of the spectrum, this aspect of care. And I love how you have this whole section in the book about avoiding burnout for the caregivers. And again, back to relating to my own story, it was wild. just being just, and she was in the hospital for a lot of it, but just.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (27:51.953)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (28:01.927)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (28:12.366)
Oh my gosh, this falls on me. My dad couldn’t handle it. So he was like, checked out and I was the one talking to the doctors. I was like, oh, and then I was worried about my dad. And then I had an incident in my carrier. And if it was prolonged, I don’t know, you know, I don’t know how I would have handled it. It was so intense. And so my heart goes out all these, you it goes out, it can go on for years and years. This management, which is a lot.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (28:21.096)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (28:32.038)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (28:38.811)
It can go on for years, even over a decade with dementia and some of these, we’re really, because of the life expectancy, we know how to keep people alive, but keeping people alive and living are two very different things. And I think there’s a very dangerous line that we sometimes cross, but here’s the thing, whose line is it to choose? It’s mine. For me to choose what quality of life is for me. an example for me would be if I…

God forbid was in a place where I couldn’t speak or recognize my loved ones or do anything for myself. I do not want measures taken like feeding tubes and things of that nature to keep me, to just keep me breathing because it’s not fair. It’s not something I would ever want. And it’s not something I would ever want for my families. And I just think we all have to think about what quality of life is for each one of us. Cause that should be the benchmark when we shift from aggressive trying to remove something or reverse it.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:30.264)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (29:35.249)
to comfort measures, really tight symptom management. By the way, I’ve gotten people’s quality of life higher in the last six months of life than it’s been in 30 years sometimes because of really good symptom management.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:44.386)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. That’s so beautiful. And to that point, Suzanne, you talk about, I mean, many of us have thought about our will or we’ve created our will, but you talk about a living will. like you’re saying, I’m alive, but I don’t want to be put on this life support machine for 20 years. Is that something that we can write into? it part of our will, practically speaking, or is that a completely different legal document?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (30:14.727)
So it’s actually a different legal document. It’s really important. They’re free by the way. And we have at Dooligos, we have a nine choice document that I will actually give you the link for, for people. It answers all those really important questions, quality of life, where do I wanna be? What’s important to me? So all the things for that, and that is not to do with any of your assets or money. It’s only to do with your healthcare.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:24.184)
Amazing.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (30:36.369)
And so it’s really about, and it’s holistic. So it covers emotionally, spiritually, and physically what you would want or not want. And again, it’s something that we should all be thinking about. And I invite your listeners to say, what brings your day joy? So for me, I love to go outside. I love to walk my dog. I love to be able to go to a park and have conversation. That’s important. If that wasn’t available, if that was something that was not going to be attainable anymore.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:36.567)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:41.496)
beautiful.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:57.357)
Mm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (31:03.761)
then that’s not something that I want to keep pursuing, trying to reverse things. I want comfort measures and I’d like to be loved and I’d like my family to be around. I’d like them to be supported in knowing what I want. All the good things that are available for us.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (31:20.024)
You know, when I was quite young, my grandmother had diabetes, she was diagnosed with diabetes. And she said, and I remember being a little girl and being like, she’s serious. She said, Suzanne, if I lose my eyesight, I do not want to live. And she sort of just said it very matter factly. And she, she did pass from other complications that it didn’t get to that point, but it was, you know, I still remember to this day, how clear she felt about that.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (31:33.8)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (31:42.6)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (31:47.579)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a statement. You my dad’s such an avid reader and he’s having some sight trouble and you know, that’s such a big

part of his enjoyment of his life. just reads, reads, reads, you know, he enjoys that. So, you know, what does that mean if somebody can’t do that? Is there something else they can find in place of that? And if not, you know, we have to look. And this is the thing that’s really missing in the medical industry that I just want to highlight is that it’s so fragmented, the healthcare system and our healthcare, they’re heroes, the people that work in it. But when they look at something going on with the person, they usually are only looking at that one thing. They’re not looking at the whole

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:25.666)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (32:27.571)
person. So somebody can have this going on and they could try and tweak it. But if that person has all these comorbidities and no quality of life, is that something that they want to go down that road to tweak? Or is it not going to make any difference in the bigger picture? We need to wholly and holistically look at people again. And I love the work you do because the emotional part of end of life can actually present in physical pain when things have not been

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:28.888)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:43.064)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:54.648)
you

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (32:55.431)
dealt with and accepted and that’s something again we want to really help to address for people because this is about a holistic journey and we want to support them and ourselves in the best end of life possible and it can go well.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (33:09.134)
Well, and that reminds me of in the transition part of your phases, there was something that struck me when you said, you know, seeing if there’s something with your loved one waiting to die. And I remember with my mother, it just became so clear to me she was holding on for my dad. They’d been married over 40 years. And so I remember this was one of the hardest things I had to say, but the grace and the strength, the lazy cry even now, just saying, you you can go. I’ll take care of daddy, you know?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (33:38.899)
Mm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (33:43.847)
Let’s take a minute. And that’s such that’s the most loving thing you could ever do is to give your mom that gift.

And it can be the hardest thing we ever do, right? And so let’s go bigger picture here for a minute, Kimberly. When people at the end of life can seemingly control the time that they have their end of life, what is that saying? I’ve had people wait for someone to come. I’ve had people wait for a birthday or an anniversary or the birth of a baby. And I’ve had people, and this is counterintuitive to what we’re going to think about,

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:10.232)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (34:21.349)
wait till the person leaves the room. Now they’ve been in a sleeping coma, deep sleep coma for days, sometimes hours. The five minutes that that family member leaves the room to get a cup of coffee, go take a shower, they have their end of life. And what do you think happens when the person returns? They feel guilty, they can’t believe they missed it. But what is this saying? That the person exists, that there’s an essence, there’s this ongoing part of us that control, that is always gonna exist. And it’s just magnificent.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:24.302)
I’m

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (34:50.129)
what we see. So giving loved ones permission, leaving the room and giving them privacy or like my beautiful daughter of the patient said, I know that you might not want to die with me in front of you because she was in her coma and said, but I’d really love to be here. And she just put her head down on the railing and her mom within a few minutes had her transition. So, so beautiful how much is going on here.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:02.606)
No.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:15.182)
Wow.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:20.842)
I and yeah, there’s just, like you said, there’s so much beauty and there’s so much loss and there’s so many lessons for those of us that witnessed this and are part of it. And it’s so deep, Suzanne, like it’s hard to even explain in words. And you have all these words in your beautiful book. It’s really profound.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (35:32.594)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (35:42.501)
It.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (35:49.103)
It is and it’s and I thank you so much for that. But I think we want to go back to what is what is life like? What is life about? And what have we learned from people at the end of life? So they say all these people are saying four of the same things. Number one, they get what I call their spiritual eyes or their spiritual wisdom at a certain point in their frequency. It’s almost like their consciousness opens up and they’re able to see their life’s journey through a different lens.

They’re able to make sense of things that they couldn’t before. They’re able to offer forgiveness and acceptance when they couldn’t before. And I’ve had people wake up from a sleep, a nap and say, I get it now, Suzanne, understand why all that happened. Like chills, right? And so forgiveness, if I can share a few things that they say is that everything happened for them, for the help for them to expand. And we know that growth is painful.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:30.606)
Ruff.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:42.2)
Wow.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (36:45.095)
So when I look at the two most painful experiences that I’ve had in my life so far, it took years, but learning from people at the end of life and changing that from being resentful and angry to forgiving, but also for the gift that it provided me. It really did teach me. And then they say that we’re all connected to one unconditional loving energy. People at the end of life talk about, they say, I’m going home.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:58.626)
And then.

Hmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (37:11.165)
that’s a spiritual home and they say it was so much peace and that, know, this is all that there is no death. And I think that one of the things that you could probably really relate to Kimberly right now is the studies with psychedelics at the end of life. So the use of psilocybin with extreme fear, they’re doing it in NYU and lots of different places. But what they’re finding in those studies is that people are saying the exact same things about that we’re all connected, that there is no death.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (37:20.622)
Thanks.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (37:39.399)
that near-death experience survivors are saying, that my patients are saying, that it’s all about love, that we’re all connected to plants, animals, everything. It’s so exciting. It’s so exciting. So for me, this is the teaching. This is the life teaching. This is the healing. It’s not somebody needs to be elected or a law needs to be passed. Every day you have a choice. Are you showing up with fear and separateness or are you showing up with love and connection?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (37:45.166)
you

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (37:49.121)
Yes!

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:08.782)
Mmm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (38:09.009)
and this is the teacher and we can all do that. It’s a question that we have to ask every day. How do I wanna show up today? I do my morning meditation. This is how I’m showing up today. Just show me.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:20.203)
So beautiful. It’s a moment to moment choice.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (38:23.027)
It’s a moment to moment present choice. And that’s how we change the

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:27.85)
Yes. You know, my idea of service really shifted a couple years ago and you talk about service in your book as well. My last book was about the heart, Suzanne, it’s called The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts. And there’s this part where, you know, again, I think it’s great if people want to, well, it’s here or do like a one, you know, a service project is really beautiful. But then when I was reading some of the Vedic teachings, there was this phrase that really sat with me and it’s never miss an opportunity to serve. And what it means is

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (38:35.603)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:57.356)
to be here in your heart and in this moment do I bring kindness? In this moment do I bring presence? Whether I’m checking out at the shoe store or at the post office, wherever I am, in this moment do I bring love and connection like you said? Or am I choosing to be separate because this is life?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (39:16.849)
love that. And I really think this is what I’ve learned as well. It’s what frequency am I holding? Am I showing up holding the frequency of unconditional love for myself and for others holding that vibration anywhere I go? And even if I’m in the home, it’s still rating A and out. That’s a, that is a signal that I’m letting out and it’s a conscious choice. And so if, and if we don’t consciously with intention choose, it chooses by default.

And that’s the chaos. And so being mindful of how much you’re watching the news and how much you let in because it shifts us. And so I just want to show up in love and to be of service. And I love that you shared that because it’s not these big grand things to be of service. It’s actually the frequency in which I’m going to show up today. And by the way, when you show up for the universe, the universe shows up for you. You’ll meet the person in the grocery store that needed a moment of kindness or a smile or

whatever it can be, and we need to get back to that because how simple is it for us to just acknowledge each other and everyone has a story we don’t know and everyone is struggling because it’s a challenging space. So be kind and be compassionate and be present, be present. Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:32.554)
I mean, this is such an expansive, heart led view of passing and death, Suzanne. And what I think is really beautiful is that a lot of people don’t yet see it this way. And I a lot of people have all this fear. And so what’s great about your book, I think is the stories, this transcendence that you share continuously through all the different

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (40:52.712)
Mm-hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (40:56.866)
topics once again with the practical information. So if anyone’s listening to this and they’re like, wow, well, that sounds great. And that sounds really freeing, but I am so far away from that currently in my perspective of death.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (41:09.715)
What about life and what about, you carrying with some grief that you, cause I think we all are, you know, on some level. I’ve had so many people tell me that this book has helped heal grief from them. Grief of 30, 40 years, grief, you know, that they’ve gone to counseling. Somehow the totality of the journey within this book. And it’s really the stories of the people because I’ve been honored and blessed to work with so many.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (41:20.194)
Mm. Mm.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (41:35.281)
has brought back the natural sacred experience that not only end of life is, but that life is. And that just shifts people’s perspective and it changed things for them. And I think that when we just are aware, and I know for me and many people, that one day the journey that I know, the gift that I’m having right now will change. I live this day very, very differently with a very different level of gratitude and a very different level on the most important.

decision that you’ll ever make is how you’re choosing to spend your time and who you’re choosing to spend it with because that’s an unrefillable commodity. And for me, the goal is when the day does come that I can say, okay, used it well done, right?

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:10.68)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:20.558)
Mm. So I imagine Suzanne, you have healthy boundaries and discernment, like you said, because of time. That’s something that’s strengthened for me. I don’t say yes, unless I really want to say yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (42:32.947)
Yeah. And I also have to say that I absolutely love stillness and my peace. It just nourishes me. So I think if people think of us as energetic bank accounts and you’re either giving off energy and reducing it or adding to it. And I think we’re taught in society to be humans doing, not humans being. And we see people get sick and be resentful because they can’t give out what they’re not refilling. Self-care and just

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:38.199)
Yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (43:03.015)
grounding and presence is so important. yeah, I cherish, I cherish just, and I make sure that it’s in my schedule because it doesn’t magically happen. It’s just like if I’d have to do a task meditation, I make sure it’s there, going out for a walk. And I encourage people to do the same.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (43:11.179)
Yes.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (43:19.673)
And.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (43:23.532)
back to life is here. If we don’t sometimes schedule it in, then it starts to get frittered away. And here’s another illness.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (43:29.411)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (43:33.107)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (43:34.494)
Amazing. One last question I had for you and then we can wrap it up here, Susan. I could really talk to you forever. It was really interesting. I’d never heard about this voluntarily stopping eating and drinking that you talk about on page 29 in the book. And it’s a very different, know, very different than suicide. Can you share a little bit about that?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (43:51.399)
Yes.

Yes, I can. And so this is a big part of my current teaching because I always am what is the ask and there’s a big movement for medical aid and dying. so, you know, people, and again, this goes back to control. so for me, working with so many people, I always want to address the fear. Right. And so when you do, when you do the studies and from my own experience, choosing medical aid and dying for the most part is that, you know,

they’re afraid that they’re gonna be in a lot of pain, which I totally understand, and they’re afraid they’re gonna lose autonomy and their dignity, and I totally understand that as well. Statistically, at least a quarter of the people aren’t using the medications after they get them, but for me, I’ve always been saying over here, but wait a second, there’s two things that are available right now that can achieve the same thing that you don’t need a law to be passed, and you don’t, and also, I also want us to have more of a conversation around all of these things, so we know that we’re making

subjective informed decisions. So one of them is called palliative sedation. And that’s where somebody will be given medication to go into a sleeping comfort coma. The other is called VSED and that’s what you shared. V-S-E-D, voluntarily stop eating and drinking and it mimics the exact way that the body shuts down. So normally when somebody’s getting close to end of life, their swallowing reflex turns off. This is a very natural part. Animals do this as well.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (45:08.462)
Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (45:16.211)
The body doesn’t need nutrients. goes into an electrolyte euphoric state actually. And so if somebody is in a advanced disease process or terminal illness in that state, they can choose to do a process called BISA. They can choose to stop eating. There is a protocol for it. I have a whole checklist for it, what I want you to get in order and be aware of and hospice can help support that. But it takes about 10 days around, 10 to 14 days. It mimics the natural way that the body shuts down and

You don’t need any permission or medication or a law to be passed. If that’s something I want people to know, they have choices. When we don’t talk about this subject about end of life, we don’t know any of the choices, not just that, but the choices about ritual, the choices about life celebration. What about a water cremation? know, healthy food. There are so many choices, yeah, which are really empowering. And again, back to that we’re all connected to the planet.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (45:59.095)
Yeah.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (46:04.686)
No, I think that’s…

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (46:08.654)
You know what mean?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (46:15.351)
I know that if I make a choice today that I know is going to have a positive impact on this planet long after I’m physically not here, that is really exciting to me. And I also know that in bombing, know, people are, not, they don’t understand that it’s not required by law. And, and we have to, we have to take back, we have to take back our power. We have choices and we have information that can help on so many levels about everything. It’s time to stop giving it away and coming back.

to the sacredness of we’ve really lost our way in a bunch of things and it’s available and there’s no judgment here, but it’s time. It’s time for us all to come together on this. And we have so much free education and information for you at Dula Givers Institute. We’re happy to answer any questions people have.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:02.166)
Yes, I was, you know, very, there was so much learning for me in that very practical chapter about funerals, at home funerals, water cremations, things that I had never heard of. It was amazing. It is amazing. So tell us, you know, about Dula Givers Institute. If someone’s listening to this, is this a national organization and people are interested in working with you or one of the Dulas?

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (47:24.849)
Yeah. So what I would say is, first of all, we’re an international organization because we have end of life everywhere, right? So we support people all over, but we also have so much free community and free information and resources, which I’m going to give you a few, like the nine choice document to share with your listeners. I’ve just also created a 12 month. It’s called the good death book experience based off of that bestselling book, but also it’s a death and dying course. So I’m going to give you a free course once a month. I’m, we’re going to do a group.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:35.211)
Hmm.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:39.064)
Yes.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (47:54.597)
lesson, we’re going to have exercises. I’m going to take you into this journey because to me this is a human right, this information, and I want to make sure that everyone who wants to have it can have it. So you can go to doulagivers.com, you can join this book club experience, you can join our free community, you can get free resources. It’s doulagivers.com and I think there’s

something for everyone. There’s life lessons, there’s end of life, but we also want you to know that if you have any needs that there’s a community here that’s behind you and it’s global. Which again is some of the most beautiful things is that end of life reminds us how much more similar we are than different. And it’s time again that we come together in that space with the heart and of love and Dula Givers Institute does that. So please join us, reach out.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (48:17.985)
And you

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (48:40.526)
That’s incredible. Well, we will link as well directly to it in our show notes at mysalina.com everyone. I can’t think of a better human to lead this movement, because you are so obviously heart led and just leading really with the power of your heart. Once again, everyone, please do pick up a copy of Suzanne’s wonderful new book. It’s called The Good Death.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (48:51.335)
Thank you.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (49:04.907)
a guide to supporting your loved one through the end of life. I imagine it’s sold everywhere. Books are sold, we can say. And is there an audio as well? Wonderful. So we’ll link to it directly, everyone. If you’re watching this on our YouTube channel, you’ll see the beautiful cover with a tree. Back to your love of nature, Thank you so much, Suzanne, for sharing

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (49:10.5)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yes. And it’s in Spanish and it’s in Chinese. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (49:29.565)
Thank you.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (49:34.786)
your heart, your heart led purpose, and just so much love around this potent moment of transition, this phase that we’re all gonna go through, universally.

Suzanne B. O’Brien RN (49:44.093)
Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, we’re all in this together. So you’ve got support, you’ve got love, you’ve got community. And again, it makes life a magical place that it’s meant to be. It changes the focus. So thank you for helping to share this message.

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (50:03.288)
my gosh. Thank you once again. You’re welcome. Thank you again. And thank you everyone so much for tuning in. And I encourage you to share this episode with anyone that you think would benefit anyone that is struggling with a loved one, ill or near time of passing or anyone that you think would benefit from this information. This is obviously a very important topic. So please share the episode. Please share about Suzanne’s box.

We’ll be back here in just a few days for our next show. Till then, please check out the show notes. Once again, mysalina.com. I’ll link to all of Suzanne’s information, her book, as well as articles and other shows I think you would enjoy. I’ll see you back here. Till then, sending you so much love and take great care.

Yeah.