Overcoming Mental Illness & Shame to Be in Service and Wholeness with Gabrielle Anwar [Episode #931]

This week’s topic: Overcoming Mental Illness & Shame 

Welcome back everyone to our Monday interview show. I am so excited for our very special guest today. Her name is Gabrielle Anwar and she is an acclaimed actress with over 45 film and television performances, including Scent of a Woman, which was a favorite film in my family. And she is an advocate for learning how to live with mental health such as bipolar disorder and PTSD. She recently spoke out about her own struggles in Patrick Kennedy’s recent book, Profiles in Mental Health Courage. Gabrielle also is on the board of Pickler USA. She talks about early childhood care, which is of course a personal interest of mine. And she is so into holistic wellness as we’ll talk about today promoting body positivity, self-acceptance.

Episode Summary 

Kimberly Snyder welcomes renowned actress and mental wellness advocate Gabrielle Anwar, who shares her journey through mental health challenges, including bipolar disorder and PTSD. They discuss the impact of fame on mental health, the importance of holistic wellness, and the balance between medication and self-care. Gabrielle emphasizes the significance of stable relationships, parenting, and the need to break generational patterns of trauma. She also introduces her nonprofit, Rethink Baby, which focuses on early childhood care and the Pickler method, aiming to promote self-esteem and emotional well-being in children.

About Gabrielle Anwar 

Born in Berkshire, England, attending the Italia Conti Performing Arts Academy in London, the accomplished Gabrielle Anwar has over 45 film and television performances to her credit in both Europe and the United States, including her breakout film Scent of a Woman, where she was whisked off her feet into an acclaimed tango with Al Pacino.

Anwar has taken on the roles of a vast array of characters: from the blind diving horse circus performer in Disney’s biopic Wild Hearts Can’t Be Broken to the risqué royal in Showtime’s The Tudors, to the supercilious counterpart to Noah Wyle in TNT’s The Librarian II. And from the fatal object of desire in Things to Do in Denver When You’re Dead to the regal Queen Anne in The Three Musketeers. She has also shown her versatility as an expat party girl in BBC’s adaptation of Mortimer’s Summer’s Lease, Gun toting Fiona on the hit show Burn Notice and Wicked Lady Tremaine in ABC’s Once Upon A Time.

Anwar is on board of Pikler USA, Anwar speaks frequently on early childhood care and its direct relation to mental health, most recently to congress in Washington D.C. Active in funding and bringing awareness to the life-changing work with the firm belief that educating parents and care-givers on infant interaction prevents future developmental issues, addictions, violence and general teen-adult malaise.

On the board of Young Musicians Unite as Vice Chairman and Gala Chair. YMU affords all strokes of Miami’s socio-economic children the opportunity to be educated in the joy of music.

Supporting an array of animal and childcare charities, Anwar continues to host the southern Florida Make A Wish Ball for her twelfth consecutive year, raising more than $25,000,000 in wishes for children with life-threatening illnesses.

Gabrielle and husband, Shareef Malnik are recently empty nesting with their animal menagerie. Anwar continues her lifelong passion for the written word with her first novel and pilot in development.

Guest Resources

Website: rethinkbaby.org

IG: @gabrielleanwar

FACEBOOK: @gabrielleanwar

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Gabrielle Anwar
03:02 Bipolar Disorder and Its Impact
08:40 Finding Balance in Life
12:44 The Power of Vulnerability and Sharing Stories
19:18 Breaking Generational Patterns
29:51 The Importance of Early Childhood Care
35:24 Conclusion and Call to Action

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OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY!

• Wellness Insights: How to Listen to Your Body for Nutritional Guidance [Episode 878]
• How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard EP. 877
• How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger [Episode #873]
• How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo [Episode #867]

 

 

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Transcript:

Kimberly Snyder (00:02.494)
Welcome back everyone to our Monday interview show. I am so excited for our very special guest today. Her name is Gabrielle Anwar and she is an acclaimed actress with over 45 film and television performances, including Scent of a Woman, which was a favorite film in my family. And she is an advocate for learning how to live with mental health such as bipolar disorder and PTSD. She recently spoke out about her own struggles in Patrick Kennedy’s recent book, Profiles in Mental Health Courage. Gabrielle also is on the board of Pickler USA. She talks about early childhood care, which is of course a personal interest of mine. And she is so into holistic wellness as we’ll talk about today promoting body positivity, self-acceptance. It goes on and on. Gabrielle, thank you so much for being here today.

Gabrielle Anwar (01:02.134)
It’s my pleasure, Kimberly. Thank you for having me.

Kimberly Snyder (01:05.858)
You know, there’s so many things I want to talk about in here, but one of the things that stood out to me when I first learned about you was how our society focuses so much on, you know, just the physicality and what we think is success. you’re, you know, you’re famous or you’re on TV and movies. Your life must be so easy, right? But one of the things that we don’t know

with anyone and with all of us are the complexities, what’s going on mentally, emotionally, these parts of us that we don’t see. So can you share a little bit now as an advocate, can you share a little bit about why you’re so passionate about this cause? you start, you’ve been in so many different films and movies, I imagine from very early age, when you started realizing that there was something going on and how that was exacerbated by,

the fame that so many people are thinking is going to solve their problems and having so many people watch you. There’s an intensity to that, isn’t there?

Gabrielle Anwar (02:10.626)
I think I’m very disconnected from the work and the aftermath. So I don’t often think about the reception of the work that I’m doing. I just do the work. And I think that was partly because I was so manic when I was playing a role. It really usurped all that energy that I had that was overwhelming to me.

Kimberly Snyder (02:16.682)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (02:25.724)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (02:37.814)
So it was an incredible channel to create something out of that very bipolar intensity. So yeah, I think that had I not had that, I would have derailed.

Kimberly Snyder (02:52.232)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Anwar (03:02.42)
into the abyss and probably wouldn’t still be here. I mean, I was struggling tremendously throughout most of my young adulthood, even in my teens. So fortunately, I had an acting career at 15, which really did keep me above sinking.

Kimberly Snyder (03:22.76)
And then how common are these sort of these challenges like bipolar, for example, because sometimes you hear about it, but it’s hard to get accurate statistics. And do think many people are struggling and not really sharing about it or getting the help that they need?

Gabrielle Anwar (03:42.978)
Well, I often joke that I think all women are bipolar when they’re PMSing. So I think there are a lot of us out there. There are a lot more than we care to think. But I do think there is a very strong correlation between the endocrine system and the psychology of a person, which I don’t think gets explored as much as it ought to in the medical field. But I do think…

Kimberly Snyder (03:48.274)
Yeah, the hormonal ups and downs. That’s true.

Gabrielle Anwar (04:10.444)
You know, I think that a lot of creative people struggle with mental health and often self-medicate either through their art or through addictions. I mean, we hear through history of so many artists that really were mentally ill. That’s not to say other strains of expression aren’t.

Kimberly Snyder (04:22.92)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (04:33.374)
as stress inducing, but I do think that there is a lot of mental health that’s untreated out there.

Kimberly Snyder (04:43.987)
Was your treatment, currently, right, it goes on long term, does it involve, like, can you share with us how you’re able to ameliorate symptoms or find a sense of relief or what has really helped you on your journey?

Gabrielle Anwar (04:58.55)
Right. Well, as you mentioned, I was a holistic practitioner. I wouldn’t take an Advil, haven’t had a Coca-Cola ever, and was very, very focused on health and well-being. So I really shunned pharmaceuticals for very many years and thought that if I just took the right

workshop or if I just met the right guru or if I just traveled to the right location that I would find healing and I did that erroneously for so many years that it wasn’t until I met my husband who gave me an ultimatum and he said either you

talk to a psychiatrist and I’ll find you the best one because I would always poo poo whoever was brought up to me and we’ll go from there. And in order to not lose the relationship, I succumbed to psychotherapy with a shrink, which was very different than psychotherapy with a therapist. And even though I had seen many, many therapists and psychiatrists over the years,

Kimberly Snyder (05:57.15)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Anwar (06:14.164)
This was a no-nonsense psychiatrist that I couldn’t manipulate with my charm and convincing ways. So it was very successful in exploring medications. And this has been 14 years now since I started with the right medications. I had been misdiagnosed and given the wrong medications for many years. This was working. So…

Kimberly Snyder (06:32.938)
Hmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (06:43.178)
It’s tedious because you’re impatient to get to where you need to be to feel like you’re functioning normally. So I was very impatient and very disrespectful of the pharmaceutical world and felt that with every medication there was a side effect which required another medication and then there was a side effect to that medication and so it went on.

So now I’m taking a significant amount of medication, which goes against my holistic beliefs, but I’m balanced and safe and stable for the first time in my life. So I have to prioritize which is the most important to me, to practice yoga with a clear head or to be balanced and safe as a mother and as a wife and as a daughter and a sister and a friend.

Kimberly Snyder (07:23.548)
Hmm. Hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (07:40.88)
Yes, I think that’s such a powerful message because sometimes in our society, it’s like all or nothing. Like this is bad, this is good. Whether you’re talking about the dieting wars or all this, all that. And I think it’s so important to hear the story of, I tried it this way and I wasn’t getting where I wanted to go. And so I opened up to this and there’s this fulfillment and this balance in your life and your

overall health, which I think is a really important message, right? Because maybe certain meds do things to your gut health. Maybe you take SPO probiotics or other things to balance. But when we’re thinking about the holistic beings that we are, these complex, these layers, these complexities, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically, we’re looking at the total picture.

Gabrielle Anwar (08:10.774)
Young, young.

Gabrielle Anwar (08:31.254)
Right, right, and it’s the only thing that’s been successful to me, so I really can’t afford to mess with it or question it even.

Kimberly Snyder (08:40.522)
Well, and it’s and, right? You can have medication to get bipolar under control and you can also strive to eat a healthy diet for anyone that’s struggling. can, you know, strive to have good sleep hygiene and exercise. You can do all these other aspects of the lifestyle. It doesn’t cancel it out. It’s just for some it adds, yeah.

Gabrielle Anwar (08:58.698)
No, it doesn’t. Right, as long as I’m not so polarized that I don’t believe that, but what you say is very wise. And I’ve come to appreciate that more and more, the older I get. And now that I’ve just become a grandmother, I want to be very present and safe for my granddaughter.

And I wasn’t in that space with my firstborn child at all. And I owe it to her, to for her grand, for her own child, that I be more consistent.

Kimberly Snyder (09:32.542)
When you say safe, Gabrielle, what do you mean by that? Like you might.

Gabrielle Anwar (09:36.844)
Well, when I was raising Willow, my firstborn child who just turned 30, actually she’s about to turn 31, where has this year gone? But that’s another story, but I was very inconsistent with her. know, I would have…

bouts of mania where I would be extremely energized, enthusiastic and overwhelming to a small child. I mean, I would do a fun project like I slip cover the trampoline with my sewing machine, which isn’t.

Kimberly Snyder (10:05.162)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (10:13.504)
a Herculean task to do and I would do it in one day. And I thought that I would be impressing her. Look what mommy can do. Isn’t this beautiful? The trampoline was bright blue and yellow and now it’s shabby chic. So I thought that I was very exciting and adventuresome, but it…

It made my daughter feel on edge because following a manic cycle, there would be a depression where I would be in my pajamas for three days. And I would say to her, mommy’s just very tired today. And I’m not going to slip cover the trampoline today because I already did that and now I need to rest. there was no consistency. There was not a mother who was like, here’s your mac and cheese and a protein on the table at 6 p.m. every evening. That was not my MO.

Kimberly Snyder (10:37.95)
Hmm

Kimberly Snyder (11:00.98)
Right.

Gabrielle Anwar (11:01.674)
So now I am trying to be more reliable.

Kimberly Snyder (11:11.24)
Yeah, steady.

Gabrielle Anwar (11:12.862)
Steady, yes steady. And that wasn’t attractive to me. Monotony was the devil. And I would even take a different route to school to drop her off in the mornings so that I would avoid the monotony of stopping at that same light at that same corner. I was constantly looking for an energy that made me feel turned on to life.

Kimberly Snyder (11:37.564)
Mmm. Outside of yourself, like a stimulation outside.

Gabrielle Anwar (11:40.706)
totally external seeking, which you’ll never find.

Kimberly Snyder (11:45.66)
You know what’s so amazing about this? just got goosebumps, Gabrielle. So my new book is about the heart and it’s about heart coherence. And one of the things I talk about in my personal story, and this isn’t the path for everyone, but also clearly it was for you, for some, the householder path where you find partnership. The partner can be that mirror that allows you to grow in ways if you’re left on your own, you may continue your patterns, you may, like you said, continue to manipulate.

Not for everyone, right? For some people, they get to a point within themselves. But I can say for me as well, just having certain patterns of behavior and when there was such a strong love with my husband and it made me see shadows, like abandonment issues that I had from my childhood that I didn’t really know were there, right? And it came up and because the love was so strong, it’s that choice you make. Like you said, you can either rise up in yourself or you lose.

this most incredible, precious relationship. And so it can be such a powerful way to grow. And I went on your Instagram and I saw, know, some beautiful renewing your vows with your husband and just this really, you know, aliveness in your relationship. So it’s just, you know, I just wanted to congratulate you and also point out that for some, is that mirror, which could be a partner, maybe it’s like a sister or a parent or a friend.

Gabrielle Anwar (12:44.886)
Yes. Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (13:03.18)
Yes, thank you.

Kimberly Snyder (13:13.118)
that can help us see because when we’re in the dark heart as it’s called incoherence, heart and brain aren’t really speaking, we don’t really see ourselves.

Gabrielle Anwar (13:20.82)
No, you’re absolutely right. And there’s nothing more powerful than a relationship between a partnership between a couple that will reflect your inadequacies and your strengths. But if you’re wanting to succeed, you have to focus on the inadequacies and work on that so that you don’t lose what is so powerful and so healthy.

Kimberly Snyder (13:30.739)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (13:49.914)
I’m so grateful for my relationship with my husband. I have grown so much in his reflection. And I just can’t imagine being without this person in my life. I just can’t.

Kimberly Snyder (14:01.458)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (14:10.508)
I mean, it’s not perfect. Our relationship is far from perfect. And I make mistakes on a daily basis. But I know that I have a safe place and he really is that masculine strength, that rock that doesn’t waver. And I’m constantly undulating around him. You know, I liken it to the stripper’s pole. You know, he’s my pole and I’m dancing and naked dance around him in all my glory. And…

Kimberly Snyder (14:31.496)
Ha ha ha!

Gabrielle Anwar (14:38.304)
that’s what our roles are. It’s very much the yin and yang. And I know we all have the masculine and feminine in us, so it doesn’t have to be opposite sex relationships, but it’s playing with that yin yang energy that creates something so vital between two people.

Kimberly Snyder (14:40.488)
Yeah.

Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (14:58.802)
I agree. You know, it’s a divine masculine, the divine feminine. And then my relationship as well, my husband’s like very masculine and I’m very feminine and it’s that stability. And like you said, that dance, that play of life, yoga would call it Shiva Shakti, right? That, know, the creativity and the stableness, but the third heart.

Gabrielle Anwar (15:15.394)
Yes.

And when I, sorry to interrupt Kimberly, when I met my husband, I very much wore the pants. I was a single mother. I brought home the bacon and I wasn’t in my feminine. I was such an ardent feminist. I didn’t know that you could be feminist and still remain feminine. And I learned so much from my, I continue to learn so much from my relationship with my husband. He’ll say to me often, where’s the battle?

You know, you can calm down, just be quiet, stop raging at me and just, let’s just take a moment here. There is no war and I’m constantly on guard. And I think that comes from being a single parent and being both the masculine and feminine in the relationship with your children.

Kimberly Snyder (16:00.595)
Right?

Gabrielle Anwar (16:11.955)
So that’s a new stance for me is really softening and allowing my husband to be male and do male things that I would have shunned many years ago and said, I’m just as important as you and don’t you tell me that and don’t tell me not to have another drink, I’ll punch you in the face. It was very much like this very tumultuous dance for power.

And now I’m like, I have no interest in that power. I have interest in power in other realms of the world, like my nonprofit, for example, I want to be in control. I’m happy being the CEO. I love that power. But within the dance between the masculine and feminine, I’ve relinquished all of it. And I’m so much happier. I’m so much happier. And I can put my pants on when I need to, but I’m quite happy to take them off.

Kimberly Snyder (16:41.619)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (16:59.753)
Mm.

Kimberly Snyder (17:08.458)
Well, I love this Gabrielle. You know, this word power is really interesting to me. I used it in my third book, which is called the Beauty Detox Power. It’s in this recent book, which just came out called The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts. So now I’m thinking of power to be as you describe in our true self, in our essence, in our kindness, in our lovingness, in the softness, where we don’t give our power, we don’t give our peace away, right? If I’m powerful and steady in me,

I don’t need you to see me in a certain way. I don’t need to fight all the time to be right or to get this or this. There’s a real power in just being, like you said, instead of constantly trying to make it be this way or push down. And there’s a lot of energy in that and vitality. I imagine that’s also really healthy for your mental health challenges and all around in your life.

Gabrielle Anwar (17:44.603)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (18:01.164)
Yeah, it’s key. It’s really key to have that stability and to not take it lightly, to really respect that and to own that internal power as a woman is very new for me, actually.

Kimberly Snyder (18:18.216)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (18:22.862)
I had a very insistent way of being in the world, which was, you know, I have a tool collection that would rival any man’s tools. And I have a tool belt and I have the worn-in leather gloves. And I have, and I recently said, you know what? I’m quite happy to have somebody else do the grouting in the bathroom tiles now.

I don’t have to prove to my children or to anyone that I am capable of doing everything on planet Earth myself. I’m going to actually relinquish this control of this situation and I’m going to hand it over to somebody who’s much, much better than I am at it. And they can grout the tiles in the bathroom and they can do a great job and I will just oversee it and be very grateful for the person who’s doing the work. So that applies to everything in my life.

Kimberly Snyder (19:14.378)
Mm.

Kimberly Snyder (19:18.09)
Well, it sounds like a real shift from survival mode, me, me, me against the world. I have to make it all happen into thriving. And were these some of the stories, or can you share a little bit about what you shared in Patrick Kennedy’s book, Profiles in Mental Health Courage?

Gabrielle Anwar (19:35.692)
Yeah, so when I met Patrick and Stephen, the co-authors of the book, I was very ripe to reveal my deep dark truths. I think I’ve been holding onto them for so long that they created a very safe platform to do this with, with the other contributors to the book. The other profiles in Mental Health Courage were so brave.

and courageous with their telling of their story, that I felt that I was in good company and that the truth heals and secrets maim. And I’m done with secrets and I have no shame around the story. I was a very difficult teen.

I think I developed bipolar in my…

Gabrielle Anwar (20:37.046)
in my adolescence. And I think that again, the endocrine system awakens hormonal baggage throughout our lives at any given moment. And I became very

Gabrielle Anwar (20:56.034)
very dichotomous. I was either very depressed or very much alive. as I mentioned, when I was 15, I started working professionally as an actor in England. And I was so grateful to have that outlet for what I considered to be like.

like I was, I should be in the book, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. I was like, I don’t even know what this is, but I should be locked up because I don’t feel safe. I’m very aggressive, violent even, and I don’t know how to control this. And I didn’t know what bipolar was. I had heard of manic depression, but I really didn’t liken it to my symptoms at all. So I was acting out.

in a variety of ways. I had a very difficult relationship with my mother, who I believe was undiagnosed bipolar. She was exhibiting depression and mania. So I was just in this environment that was just so unhealthy and…

When I went away to shoot a movie or a TV show in that instance, I was like, okay. So we’re all a little weird and this is a really creative outlet and all these people are leaving home and on location in this place and we all have each other. And I was just like, this rocks. This is a great environment to be unstable. And I’m gonna learn this dialogue.

Kimberly Snyder (22:44.079)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (22:47.618)
and I’m gonna act it out as a misunderstood teenager in this particular character. And it was just, it was a match made in heaven.

Kimberly Snyder (23:00.54)
until you realized it wasn’t a permanent solution.

Gabrielle Anwar (23:05.324)
Well, it really wasn’t until I had children that I realized that this is detrimental to everybody involved with my life. you know, I’m influencing everybody in my life and this isn’t working and I don’t know what to do about it, but it’s not working.

Kimberly Snyder (23:13.075)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (23:25.3)
Gabrielle, I love that you said you don’t have shame about this because I think that one of the most detrimental energies that we can take on is shame. think a lot of we have shame different ways. One of the things that Swami Sri Yukteswar says, who is Yogananda’s guru, who wrote Yoga to the West, who is such a big part of my recent book. So he’s always top of mind for me. He wrote about these five heart stages from the Vedas.

Gabrielle Anwar (23:37.782)
Yes, without a doubt.

Kimberly Snyder (23:53.822)
He talks about letting go of shame. And you know, I’m paraphrasing here, but he says, you know, every person’s life has so much shame. And until we really anchor in self, know, God, spirit, heart, however you want to think of it, until you really anchor yourself, there’s gonna be a lot of things that you could potentially feel shameful for. And then it just weighs you down in the present. It doesn’t help anyone. It doesn’t help, you know, the energy now and what you wanna bring forward and what you wanna create.

So we have to let the shame go. We have to, you of course learn and see and change patterns, but it doesn’t help anything to hold onto that shame. And now you could speak to letting go of that and now going forward and creating your nonprofit and putting energy. And then I’d like to talk about the children’s work in a minute, but just letting go to move into something where you can be of service, where you can share your story, where you can bring issues to light, the power in that.

Gabrielle Anwar (24:24.385)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (24:51.488)
It’s incredible. That kind of power is so good and so good for the planet and so good for everyone you come into contact with. It’s a very different system of controlling a situation or the lack of control in a situation. It’s a beautiful place to reside.

Kimberly Snyder (25:02.707)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (25:17.43)
and I’m very happy to have found it. And I veer from that and I feel shame occasionally and then I just come back to that place and I do feel that that presence of.

of the universe or the gods or whatever you want to look at it. I feel close to that presence at that moment and I feel like, okay, there’s a big plan here. There’s a really big plan here and I’m just the hero in my own journey. So now I can take a step back and feel safe in this particular place and relinquish the shame again. It’s a constant shedding.

Kimberly Snyder (25:56.486)
Yeah, I was gonna say you feel it, you’re aware of shame, and then you come back to center. Is it like that over and over again?

Gabrielle Anwar (26:04.33)
Yes, for me, yes it is. For me it is. I I do a lot of praying during my day. You I have a prayer that covers all the gods, that covers the universe, that covers the guys, the angels, the fairies. It’s a very prolific prayer, but I do it every day to just ground myself and to just get on the right side of things. It’s just a little reminder every day.

Kimberly Snyder (26:12.404)
Beautiful.

Kimberly Snyder (26:32.766)
You know, for me as well, Gabrielle, I pray as well. And for me, what’s helped let go of my shame is praying that I can be of more service, right? Because when we’re in shame, we’re very self-focused and even, you you feel bad, like, but you’re still focused on yourself. And then for me, it’s realizing, well, you know, maybe I would have shifted, you know, wouldn’t do that again or whatever, you know, wouldn’t yell at my mom or did things in the past, but…

here we are now and if I focus on service and I can pray to be of more service, then I feel this expansion out and it also helps me lift out of the shame because I’m not so focused on the little me.

Gabrielle Anwar (27:13.856)
Yeah, yeah, I think there’s a very fine line between acknowledging shame and self-pity. And I think it’s really important to veer on the side of I’m not my past, I am the present, and I have the future to look forward to. I have to, at some point…

distinguish the two and cut myself off from the past because I can’t change it. And if I dwell on it for years in therapy or for years out of therapy, I’m not going to get to where I need to be in life to have the best life that I can and to be of service, whatever that looks like to you.

Kimberly Snyder (27:45.566)
S.

Kimberly Snyder (27:57.662)
Yeah.

Gabrielle Anwar (28:00.179)
Yeah, you have to cut the past off and let it go at some point because I spent years blaming my parents for everything, every little thing. And then when I became a parent, I was like, my God, they were doing the best they could.

There really is no blame here. There’s gratitude. There’s gratitude for doing the very best you could. know, there weren’t psychological tools back then. There were barely a diagnosis for illnesses, mental illnesses. My mother was prescribed tranquilizers for her manic depression. And so, yeah, we’ve come a long way in the last 50 years. So I’m very grateful to be on this end of the spectrum rather than back when my mother was trying.

Kimberly Snyder (28:16.617)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (28:32.657)
Wow.

Gabrielle Anwar (28:44.034)
to parent me from a place of dysfunction.

Kimberly Snyder (28:48.714)
Well, and if we believe this, which as I do, the universal intelligence, that things are happening for our growth, right? Because we could all sit here and say, well, my childhood was this or that and all the things in the past. So there is power in coming into the present, which for me is so much about coming into the heart, not just up in the head and the thoughts and the mind, it should have been this or this was right and this was wrong, but to be here. And then you shift your energy into something else.

Gabrielle Anwar (28:57.069)
Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (29:12.577)
Yes.

I do believe it’s the only way to break generational patterns that are negative. I think it’s the only way to shift that dynamic out of a family’s origin and change the way you want to parent or you want to live. And it doesn’t have to be the way you were parented and the way you lived in your family of origin.

Kimberly Snyder (29:24.553)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (29:39.423)
Bye.

So tell us Gabrielle a little bit about your nonprofit and how you’ve shifted out of all this past and where your energy and your passion is right now.

Gabrielle Anwar (29:51.566)
So when I was pregnant with my son and my daughter was five or six, I met a child psychologist who was working with Willow because I thought I needed help with an expert for her to have somebody to speak to that wasn’t her mother or father who were so struggling.

So when I met this child psychologist, she mentioned a child rearing philosophy called Pickler.

after Dr. Emmy Pickler. And so I studied this approach and I used it religiously with Hugo so that I wouldn’t create the same patterns that I had with Willow. And then I did it with my youngest daughter as well. So that was 23 years ago. And for 23 years, I’ve been trying to bring this approach to the United States, to a wide audience.

Kimberly Snyder (30:48.65)
Mmm.

Gabrielle Anwar (30:50.93)
of young mothers and caregivers in daycare situations. So I, at the end of last year, launched Rethink Baby, which does just that. It brings the Pickler Method into the 21st century and allows caregivers and mothers to learn what this methodology does to children, how it promotes

high self-esteem and self-respect and respective other and builds confidence and builds a child that is very capable of love, of self-love and self-soothing, but also to love another. And I truly believe that if we can implement this practice in daycares and in homes throughout Miami currently, and then eventually throughout the country and in my…

big dream, the world, then there will be world peace eventually, not in my lifetime. But if we can start with babies from zero to three years old, which is when they are so influenced by their external stimulus, if we could address those three years, which usually just are ignored before preschool and school begins. And this is a time when parents are exhausted and their, their

They’re very new to this and they don’t know what to do. There are no manuals and every parenting book contradicts the next. It’s like, should we be attaching? Should we be unattaching? Should I eat my placenta? Should I bury my placenta? Like, we don’t know what to do.

So this is a guide that is so simple and inexpensive and extraordinarily effective that creates children like my two youngest children who are really upstanding citizens. They’re really good people. They really are kind and they they’re not aggressive or violent and they are fully capable human beings, which is the same story as the adult children who grew up.

Kimberly Snyder (32:51.442)
Mm.

Gabrielle Anwar (32:57.804)
with the Pickler method 100 years ago. So we do have 100 years of scientific data that proves that the children who are raised this way aren’t going to become school shooters anytime soon.

Kimberly Snyder (33:00.458)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (33:11.816)
So I have personal experience with Pickler as well, Gabrielle. My children started off, I mean, they’ve been home with me until quite recently. So they were, you because I work from home, but then there was a little pod where Linda, the founder was, she would go to Hungary all the time. She was very influenced by Emmy Pickler and you there was books that we were given to read. So I really love that.

Gabrielle Anwar (33:24.098)
Wonderful.

Kimberly Snyder (33:39.304)
methodology, like you said, of really respecting the infant. And there’s this communication instead of treating them like an object or like a doll, which I think about the way previous generations and where so much trauma comes from. So my trauma, I’ve worked my whole life to get over not feeling heard or seen or abandoned, right? It’s in those early years. And now my children are in Waldorf schools, which I also love so much, which is,

Gabrielle Anwar (34:04.94)
Fabulous.

Kimberly Snyder (34:07.53)
I didn’t really think about this, Gabrielle, until I had children about the school system, which can often be memorizing and just so many screens and sort of competitive. Yes.

Gabrielle Anwar (34:19.106)
which is also traumatic. Yeah, it’s more trauma. Yes, it is. Especially if you have a child that isn’t particularly academic, who’s more on the creative side, there’s a tremendous amount of trauma going through school, not being able to keep up. And a lot of children suffer from that.

Kimberly Snyder (34:35.42)
Yes. So for any parent out there, anyone wanting to know more about the Pickler and you mentioned the guide, how can they learn more? Especially if you’re about to be a mom, right? We have a lot of moms to be, moms will be, people will be moms in three years, five years down the road. What are, yeah.

Gabrielle Anwar (34:47.458)
Well,

Gabrielle Anwar (34:51.416)
I have a lovely website called rethinkbaby.org. And it talks a lot about pregnancy, getting pregnant, what happens when you are pregnant, and all the way through toddlerhood. And there’s a weekly, or a monthly rather, newsletter. And there are a lot of articles. And then there’s a lot of explanation as to what Pickler is, because you mentioned Pickler and people are like, what are you talking about, cucumbers in a jar? So.

Kimberly Snyder (35:06.014)
Beautiful.

Gabrielle Anwar (35:21.314)
There’s a lot of information on the website.

Kimberly Snyder (35:24.936)
beautiful. We’ll put that in the show notes as well, Gabrielle. I love that. Yeah, I just find your story so inspiring that you’ve been able to just move through this beautiful journey and get to this point in your life where there’s this aliveness and this love and you’ve created healthy relationships and you’re sharing your story and the shame part I think is so huge and you’re creating with so much passion.

Gabrielle Anwar (35:28.802)
Thank you.

Kimberly Snyder (35:53.714)
Is there anything else you’d love, do you think, you know, in your story would inspire another person or that we didn’t cover or something else about shame or anything else?

Gabrielle Anwar (36:05.354)
husband is going crazy from a flight. He must have Wi-Fi connection on his on his particular flight that he’s on. Forgive the beeps.

Kimberly Snyder (36:11.946)
We’ll edit this part out, Gabrielle. Can you turn it off just for five minutes till we’ve finished?

Gabrielle Anwar (36:16.108)
Yeah, it’s not working for some reason, but anyway, I think we covered a lot, I think we covered a lot and I am very grateful to you and your journey. And I’m very curious to read your books. I would love to read them. And I would just say that if anybody else is struggling with mental health issues to…

Kimberly Snyder (36:20.756)
Okay.

Yeah, it’s a great one.

Gabrielle Anwar (36:45.194)
reach out to me on my website. There’s an email address that you can send to me and I will try to guide you as best I can. I’m always available and I’m always willing to help a fellow human being. I’m much more connected to women than I am men. But even if a man is struggling, I will be there. But I have a great…

slew of professionals in my life now that have supported me and have turned my life around. So I’m very willing to share that information with anyone who’s struggling. And it’s one thing to say, seek help, but it’s another thing to say, seek the right help. When you’re very desperate, it’s not always the first thing on your priority list is to seek help. It’s usually how to get your needs met.

Kimberly Snyder (37:28.231)
Right.

Gabrielle Anwar (37:40.172)
And in that moment, we’re so distorted with what those needs are. But I say, shoot me an email and I’ll be able to guide you as best I can.

Kimberly Snyder (37:52.03)
Gabrielle, you are so generous. Thank you so much for saying your heart, your big heart, sharing your story. I just find it very inspiring. And I appreciate you so much for coming on our show. So will you call out the name of your website one more time?

Gabrielle Anwar (38:09.398)
Yes, rethinkbaby.org.

Kimberly Snyder (38:13.15)
And that’s where they can also email you for mental health questions. All right, amazing. Well, thank you again so much. I’m just very in awe of the authenticity and the inspiration you bring. So thank you, sister, for coming on our show today.

Gabrielle Anwar (38:16.522)
Yes, of course.

Gabrielle Anwar (38:32.312)
Thank you, sister. Priestess is at work.

Kimberly Snyder (38:35.69)
And thank you so much loves for cooning in today. We will be back Thursday as always for our next Q &A. Remember that on mysaloon.com we will link to direct information on Gabrielle. You can also drop down the tab and submit questions for the Thursday shows on there. A little reminder that the new book is out, The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts. So please check it out when you get a moment and let me know what you think.

So we’ll be back here soon sending you much love. Take great care. Bye bye.

Kimberly Snyder (39:12.86)
Yay!

Gabrielle Anwar (39:14.828)
done. was a wonderful interview. Thank you.

Kimberly Snyder (39:18.066)
You know, I just feel like when we get, for me, Gabrielle, that used to have so many layers, when I’m in my heart, when you just touch other people’s hearts, it’s like, I’ve just immediately felt so close to you. There’s none of these layers. It’s amazing.

Gabrielle Anwar (39:33.518)
It’s beautiful. That’s how we should be interacting with everyone, but we have to put boundaries up to stay safe in environments that aren’t conducive to heartwarming conversations. But I’m so glad that you felt that during this conversation. It’s beautiful. It’s very unusual.

Kimberly Snyder (39:45.054)
Well, you-

Gabrielle Anwar (40:09.856)
Yes, yes, and it’s so much easier. Yeah, I’m gonna read your book. You don’t have to send me one. Let me buy one. I’ll buy one on Amazon.

The Hidden Power of the Five Hots. It’s a great title.

Gabrielle Anwar (40:33.238)
Okay, I look forward to it. Thank you so much.

Gabrielle Anwar (40:41.612)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I’d love to meet you in person.

Gabrielle Anwar (40:49.144)
All right, take care, Kimberly.

Bye.