The issues with consuming vegetable and seed oils with Dr. Catherine Shanahan [Episode #899]

This week’s topic: The issues with consuming vegetable and seed oils with Dr. Catherine Shanahan

Namaste loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited to have on our show today a very special guest, New York Times bestseller, Dr. Catherine Shanahan, who has a new book out called Dark Calories, How Vegetable Oils Destroy Our Health and How We Can Get It Back. Dr. Shanahan or Dr. Kate, as I will be calling her today, actually wrote a book that I read years ago called Deep Nutrition. She continues to be a trailblazer in educating us about topics of the day and vegetable oils is something that we definitely all need to know about because….

Dr. Catherine Shanahan Best Selling Book

Dark Calories: How Vegetable Oils Destroy Our Health and How We Can Get It Back

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Book Discussion
02:38 Understanding the ‘Hateful Eight’ Vegetable Oils
09:43 Toxicity and Health Implications of Vegetable Oils
12:07 The Difference Between Polyunsaturated and Saturated Fats
33:23 The Dangers of Vegetable Oils and the Importance of Understanding Fats
35:37 The Influence of the American Heart Association on Dietary Guidelines
39:12 The Importance of Traditional Diets
41:12 Choosing the Right Cooking Methods for Healthier Meals
52:50 Debunking the Myth: Saturated Fat and Cholesterol
56:05 Understanding the Impact of Fats on Our Health

About Dr. Catherine Shanahan

Dr. Cate Shanahan is the leading authority on nutrition and human metabolism. A board-certified Family Physician with over 20 years of clinical experience, and NY Times bestselling author of The FatBurn Fix, Deep Nutrition and Food Rules, her expertise is fixing the underlying problems that cause metabolic damage and inflammation, leading to autoimmunity, weight gain, diabetes, cancer and accelerated aging processes. Her passion is helping people feel their best.

 

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Transcript:
Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

Kimberly Snyder (00:00.686)
Hi everyone, welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited to have on our show today a very special guest, New York Times bestseller, Dr. Catherine Shanahan, who has a new book out called Dark Calories, How Vegetable Oils Destroy Our Health and How We Can Get It Back. Dr. Shanahan or Dr. Kate, as I will be calling her today, actually wrote a book that I read years ago called Deep Nutrition.

She continues to be a trailblazer in educating us about topics of the day and vegetable oils is something that we definitely all need to know about. So Dr. Kate, thank you so much for coming on our show. Congratulations on your new book. So exciting.

cate (00:45.414)
Thank you, Kimberly. Yes, I’m very excited. It was just released two days ago, so we’re in the thick of it now.

Kimberly Snyder (00:52.622)
Think of it, I know how that goes with book launches and are you a mama as well?

cate (00:57.83)
No, only of a furry, you know, for the four -legged babies.

Kimberly Snyder (01:00.11)
Okay, so you have furry pets to manage. I saw here that you live in Florida, which is a state that I love very much. I spent a lot of time in Florida as well.

cate (01:12.038)
yeah lovely yes and we’re about to get one of our Florida thunderstorms so hopefully the connection will hold up.

Kimberly Snyder (01:17.774)
It’s exciting. The weather is exciting. So I actually spoke at an Alzheimer’s event, Dr. Kate, a few months ago, and I was on a panel and I was talking about some of the ways in which we can clean up our diet. And I mentioned something about seed oils. And I can’t tell you how many people came up to me after the talk as I was walking through the ballroom and they were like, Hey, what are you talking about? What did you mean by that? Exactly. Can you

go into it more. And I could see that there was so much interest in it and yet so much, not even misinformation, just no information out there. And so your book came across my desk and it’s quite thick. If you guys are watching this on YouTube, those of you that are listening to it, it’s got a lot of information. There’s a lot of history here. There’s a lot of things going on. And as we’ll talk about in our show today, there’s a lot of

health implications that we all need to be aware of and solutions on a positive note of how we can shift and direct our diet. So my goodness, Dr. Kate, I took all these notes. It’s like hard to even know where to start. How did we get here? Why are, well, let’s even back up. What are vegetable oils exactly and why are they so harmful?

cate (02:38.534)
Right, so the term vegetable oil is actually not even what, it’s not gonna help you, right? Like it’s the term that we use, it’s on the subtitle of my book. I’ve been calling them vegetable oils for years, but that doesn’t distinguish between healthy and non -healthy. So vegetable oils include olive oil and coconut oil and, you know, very healthy oils. And it’s just a term that comes from industry. So I use the industry term because that’s what people will see on the labels.

Kimberly Snyder (02:58.862)
No.

cate (03:08.39)
But there really isn’t a great term for it. Other people use the term vegetable seed oils because a lot, because all of the oils that I’ve identified as bad are seed oils. And those are, let’s just list them now. Corn, canola, cottonseed, soy, sunflower, safflower. And this is surprising to a lot. The next two.

rice bran and grapeseed, because those are really touted as very healthy. Canola is surprising to a lot of people too, because it’s so touted as healthy, because of its omega -3 content. And if you don’t live in North America, you don’t know what canola is, you use rapeseed as the term instead. They’re the same thing. But I had to come up with this term, because even though they do all come from seeds, not all seed oils even are bad. And so,

Kimberly Snyder (03:37.806)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (03:54.318)
Yes.

cate (04:05.222)
I want to maybe just touch on how I identified these eight, because that ties into the answer to the question is, you know, why are they toxic? Sound good? Great. So, yes. So, yeah, so these oils, all eight of them were originally released into, like, originally created by industries that have nothing to do with food.

Kimberly Snyder (04:16.046)
Yes, teach us.

cate (04:32.038)
They were originally created by, for example, the textile industry. It was a cotton seed oil was a byproduct of the textile industry and cotton seed oil was originally used to manufacture soap, machine lubricant and detergents and soy oil, which is the most commonly consumed by far. It’s the most prevalent, probably, you know, of all the hateful eight, 80 or 90 % are going to be soy oils. That’s what’s out in the food supply. We grow a lot of it.

Kimberly Snyder (05:01.582)
No.

cate (05:02.598)
Now, soy oil was originally, you might be surprised to hear it, even though soy and soybeans have been cultivated in Asia for thousands of years, they were not used for the oil. Like I was surprised to learn that myself. So it wasn’t really used at all until after World War II, when Americans had this huge appetite for beef. They wanted to accelerate,

Kimberly Snyder (05:16.91)
Yes.

cate (05:31.718)
the fattening of the beef. And so they fed them in confinement and they, instead of giving them their natural diet grass, they gave them a more calorie dense soy meal and corn meal. And the process of extracting the, you have to extract the oil out of the soybeans because they don’t store well at all. They go rancid very quickly. So it wouldn’t have worked at all. So they had to squish the oil out and they were creating soy meal.

And that worked well to fatten the cows. Whether or not it’s healthy is another subject. But the oil, therefore, was this extra product. And there was no human market for it. But nonetheless, what they did was they cleaned it up, they had to refine it extensively, and then they marketed it for human consumption. So all the hateful eight have a similar history of being first byproducts of other…

industries. And the problem with that, the one exception actually is sunflower. Sunflower oil had been used. But what’s different with the sunflower oil, you see on ingredients, is the same problem with the rest of the hay flake. That is that the seeds are crushed and pressed and heated to such an extent because they’re looking for efficiency of extraction here. When you’re gentle,

the way people were traditionally with sunflower oil, and they still are to get quality olive oil. When you’re gentle during your extraction of the oil, there’s a lot of waste. There’s a lot of oil left in the seed. And so the vegetable oil industry has really no interest in being gentle or careful because they can sell more product. They can get more product when they crush it and abuse it. And so here’s the thing. The oil that comes out of that high heat pressurized scenario,

Kimberly Snyder (07:19.214)
Yes.

cate (07:27.59)
is inedible. It’s called the crude oil. It’s called crude because it is inedible and needs to be processed and refined extensively in order to be like not disgusting, right? Like we’re not talking even about like toxicity. We’re talking about it is so obviously vile.

Kimberly Snyder (07:32.238)
Mmm.

cate (07:52.934)
When you, if you were to look at it, it’s cloudy and doesn’t look like the right color. It’s brown. It’s not the color. Like soy oil should be green, but it’s not, it’s brown. But then if you get close to it, close enough, standing over a vat there, the fumes might burn your eyes. You would get like a searing pain in your nose, just like if you’re breathing in bleach. It has these level of caustic materials in it. If someone were to like force you to drink,

Kimberly Snyder (08:14.606)
Mmm.

Ugh.

cate (08:21.35)
So like maybe at gunpoint or something. If you took a swig, it would burn your mouth, it would burn your esophagus. And when it hits your stomach, it will burn your stomach, but you’ll hopefully get a regurgitation reaction to protect you from those toxins. So that is what it is before it’s processed, right? So then it has to be refined and they clean out a lot of those highly caustic, disgusting materials.

Kimberly Snyder (08:25.902)
No, Michael.

cate (08:47.494)
through many, many steps, like entire factories are devoted to this refining. So we’ve got steps that include degumming, de -waxing, if there’s a solvent used, like hexane, which is often used in soil oil, and you’ve got to wash out the solvent. Hexane, by the way, in gasoline, it’s toxic. It’s considered a hazardous material. And then you have to do bleaching, deodorizing, and just so much stuff has to happen.

Kimberly Snyder (09:07.886)
Ugh.

cate (09:16.518)
before the oil is now odorless and no longer caustic. But it doesn’t mean it doesn’t contain toxins. And testing shows that anywhere between 0 .6 and 5 .2 % of the fatty acids in refined canola oil, for example, are unnatural and in this trans configuration.

that is unnatural, that our bodies really cannot handle too much of it. And so that’s just one type of toxin. And then there’s another type of toxin that’s more disturbing because this is a more powerful toxin than pesticides, than glyphosate, than anything that’s added to processed food. It’s called 4 -hydroxynoninol. And it’s in a family of toxins that are all extraordinarily

bad for us. They are known carcinogens. They mutate our DNA. They kill cells. If you were to put a tiny concentration, just to give you an example of what I mean by kill cells, if you take a brain cell that has been cultivated on a microscope so you can watch it under a microscope, complex brain cells are large and complex and they have beautiful branches that look like trees and a big trunk coming out of one side of it. If you put a very diluted

Kimberly Snyder (10:17.102)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (10:36.014)
Yes.

cate (10:41.27)
portion of this, like we’re talking about one part per million drop on the slide, it will immediately start damaging the cell membranes. And you will literally in real time be able to watch that beautiful tree -like structure just die back and all the branches just disintegrate and it becomes just like a little sad nub instead of a healthy cell.

Kimberly Snyder (11:01.742)
Dr. Kate, are we talking about a toxin inside of soybean oil specifically or all of these eight oils that you’re mentioning?

cate (11:10.214)
All of them, inside all of them, yes. And so even canola oil, yes. Canola oil can have even more toxicity, believe it or not, because the fatty acid composition of canola oil that supposedly makes it healthy, because it has those omega -3s, which would be healthy if they were not oxidized. The problem is that they get oxidized. And so that’s an important term. That is the key term to understand.

Kimberly Snyder (11:12.43)
even canola oil.

Wow.

cate (11:37.03)
why these Hay Folate oils are different and distinct and unique. Because not only are they harshly treated, their chemical composition includes a lot of these fragile fatty acids that we call polyunsaturates. And Omega -6 and 3 are both polyunsaturates. And they will oxidize when heated. They will oxidize when exposed to air. They will oxidize when exposed to light. And so the oxidation is the process.

that transforms the chemicals that nature made that would be good for us into something terribly toxic.

Kimberly Snyder (12:14.134)
I mean, it’s just frightening hearing you talk about these byproducts, these pseudo, well, I don’t even know what to call them. They’re certainly not foods that end up in our bodies. Sort of like you hear about how high fructose corn syrup also came to be and is widely and extensively used as well. And so the bottom line, Kate, these are incredibly toxic. They’re in the food supply because of big business, because it’s cheap, because they…

They don’t have to use high quality ingredients to preserve or to create these food products. So can we largely avoid them if we avoid processed foods or is it even more pervasive than that?

cate (12:56.358)
It’s pretty darn pervasive because they’re in a lot of, so foods that you wouldn’t even suspect like mayonnaise, right? And maybe you might think of mayonnaise as a processed food or you might not realize it is, right? The term processed food is another, again, one of those terms that has not been clearly defined. It has not been well -defined. We’ve got so many people talking about, we know processed food is bad. We know it’s hurting our health, but…

Dark calories is really the first book to say, here’s what defines a processed food. So vegetable oil is one of the keys. High fructose corn syrup belongs to another category, the refined sugars. There are refined flours also, that’s a third category. And then a fourth is processed protein powders. So it’s very important to understand that these are the hallmarks of a processed food. Even a food that claims to be healthy, if it has…

as its primary ingredient, these four, then it’s a processed food and you should avoid it. So to answer your question again, like get back to like what else is it in? If you buy sun -dried tomatoes, very often instead of being preserved in olive oil, it’s gonna be one of the hate -flate oils. That’s true for so many canned foods, so many jarred preserves, whether it’s vegetables or fish or…

you know, anything with a label. Dehydrated, you might think that dried fruits, you wouldn’t think of them as being particularly processed. They’re often coated in some sort of an oil. Very often it’s sunflower oil. Why is that? Well, it has benefits to the shelf life. It makes them less likely to stick to each other, so you don’t have to use such high quality ingredients. It prevents mold growth. It keeps insects from being able to eat it so easily.

Kimberly Snyder (14:41.23)
Wow.

most.

cate (14:52.194)
So you really have to read every absolute everything with an ingredients label. And it’s not just, so it goes way beyond what oils you stock in your kitchen, right? And it goes way beyond like the obvious junk foods like chips and crackers and.

Kimberly Snyder (15:03.854)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (15:09.774)
Well, your list was really interesting, Dr. Kate. Well, first of all, I just want to say this is an issue, whether we’re plant -based or we’re omnivores or we’re carnivores, like this is for everyone. And it’s not often, there’s so much dietary discussion, as we know, nutritional studies going, you know, head to head about this and that. But this is one of those categories, I feel like is empirically true. Seed oils are bad, no matter what. We, you know, we can’t really argue for them.

What really surprised me in your list was the protein powders. Can you go into that? Do you mean the actual, like, which form are you speaking about? Like if you get a protein powder for shakes or are you talking about some of the replacements or is it certain brands, some of the meat replacements?

cate (15:57.83)
Unfortunately, it’s anything that looks like a protein powder or says protein powder. And there’s some other synonyms to watch for that, you know, have to memorize this. Yes, yes. Our bodies are not designed to digest basically pre -digested protein. You know, it’s, you know, think about pea protein. How do you get protein out of a pea? Well, it’s not something that nature does, right? That has to happen in a factory too.

Kimberly Snyder (16:07.822)
Like in bars, like protein bars.

Kimberly Snyder (16:23.342)
Mm.

cate (16:26.342)
And the thing about protein, and this gets back to the importance of understanding oxygen and oxidation reactions, protein contains nitrogen. Nitrogen is extraordinarily reactive with oxygen, and all amino acids have a nitrogen base. And so when you’re refining these protein powders, you’re doing it in a highly aerated environment.

Kimberly Snyder (16:32.814)
Yes.

cate (16:52.422)
The nitrogen molecules are reacting with the oxygen in the air and that turns an amino acid that could, that your body could use to build protein into worthless nitrogenous waste that now your kidneys and your liver have to detoxify. And nobody’s talking about that either. I have not heard anybody talking about it. And frankly, I’ve been nervous to even bring it up for so many years because there’s so many supplements out there that contain protein powders and…

Kimberly Snyder (17:08.462)
Mmm.

cate (17:21.702)
you know, people in this nutrition space are often sponsored by a protein powder. And I’m just like, I don’t want to step on toes. You know, it’s kind of awkward, right?

Kimberly Snyder (17:30.702)
Well, I think it’s like, you know, again, it’s good to be aware and some people may continue to use them. I know Dr. Kate, when I’m on the fly, sometimes I’ll have a protein shake. I know you are the medical director. You work at the LA Lakers Pro Nutrition, you know, LA Lakers Pro Nutrition Creator. So, you know, it’s around. But I think this overarching message, which we’ve all been told that sometimes we don’t always want to hear is that Whole Foods are the best, no matter what.

It’s like we tried to cut corners sometimes and address this in your book as well. Sometimes people, and I’ve had clients, Dr. K, I go in their house and I open their cabinet and they’re literally taking 70 different supplements a day, micronutrients, they’re taking the riboflavin and they’re taking this and that versus just eat simple whole foods. There’s just so many ways that people try to get past that, but it seems to be a real nutritional truth that we can’t.

cate (18:20.102)
Right.

cate (18:28.166)
We simply can’t, and even the idea of supplementing with vitamins, well, if they didn’t come from, if they weren’t extracted from a plant, then there’s gonna be, we cannot manufacture them as perfectly as nature can. And there’s always byproducts, right? Even in the highest quality vitamin, you’re gonna have a few byproducts. So that’s just yet another reason why.

Kimberly Snyder (18:44.494)
Right, all the synthetics. Yeah.

cate (18:51.846)
then there’s the whole oxidation issue because yes, they will oxidize just like anything that kind of sits around in a dehydrated state is very susceptible to oxidation and oxidation reactions destroy the nutritional value of our food. And getting back to the vegetable oils, the vegetable oils, their chemical makeup being so high in polyunsaturates makes them the most susceptible to oxidation.

of all the foods that we eat. And so basically when you’re, you know, you should look at, what does oxidation do actually? Well, it destroys, I touched on it, it denatures the molecule. So it makes it from what nature created to something that our bodies have to detoxify. And sometimes our bodies cannot detoxify. And that’s another unique thing about the vegetable oils.

Kimberly Snyder (19:49.55)
Mm.

cate (19:49.99)
So the toxins themselves that contaminate the oils with those names that I mentioned, like the 4 -hydroxynonanol and the different types of trans fatty acids that are also in there, those, our liver and our kidneys and our detoxification systems can eliminate. It depletes our antioxidants. It’s not good to, you know, it stresses our bodies enormously to consume them, but at least we can get them out of our bodies. What we cannot easily get out of our bodies,

is the poly and saturates themselves that are overly high in these vegetable oils. And what that does is something, again, that no one is talking about because it changes our body fat itself.

Kimberly Snyder (20:24.174)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (20:38.126)
Wow. So Dr. Kate, practically speaking, if we look at all the labels and we’re trying to reduce vegetable oils, it can feel stressful because they’re everywhere, right? So maybe we’re not telling you, you know, as a recovering perfectionist myself, it can be hard to say nothing, but we want to eat as little as possible. There’s, there may be some still in our diet, but as long as we’re more aware, we make better choices.

cate (20:50.774)
yeah.

cate (21:08.71)
Absolutely, right. Now, if…

Kimberly Snyder (21:08.718)
You know, it’s not all for nothing. It’s really hard. You know, my kids like we travel or in the airport, there’s treats they eat sometimes. I mean, there’s there’s vegetable oils and pretty much everything. So what would you say to the average person? Be aware, reduce them. But I mean, do you do eat none? Dr. Kate, would you say you’re? Wow.

cate (21:27.974)
Correct. I eat none because they are the worst of the worst. And the reason I wanted to write dark calories is because most people don’t know that if they’re not avoiding them, looking and working hard to avoid them, then the average person gets 30 % of their daily calories from this collection of hateful ate oils. So they’re so pervasive. Yes. And another place you get them besides the processed foods and what you cook at home.

Kimberly Snyder (21:39.278)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (21:44.206)
30 %

Kimberly Snyder (21:48.238)
for making this information.

cate (21:56.902)
is every time you go out to eat. Because the vast majority of restaurants are using these things. They are, you know, they’re not, nobody’s allergic to them, you know, like peanut oil. They’re so much cheaper. They’re flavor neutral, and they’re advertised as having a high smoke point, which is not truly beneficial, but restaurants believe that’s beneficial. And so, you know, if you have a child in school, they’re eating these oils, if they’re eating anything.

Kimberly Snyder (21:59.246)
Ugh. Ugh.

cate (22:26.278)
that the school makes for them because the school is required to avoid saturated fats by law or they won’t get funding. If you have a relative in a nursing home or assisted living facility, the same thing applies. They’re getting these oils. If you are unfortunately know anybody incarcerated in prison, prisoners are forced to eat these oils as well. And you know, fast food restaurants, fancy restaurants.

Kimberly Snyder (22:34.766)
Well.

cate (22:53.67)
Again, 30 % of the calories in the average meal there are going to be coming from these oils. So they’re so pervasive that they have changed your metabolism if you have not been avoiding them. And so it’s almost like an emergency that you need to start really being strict and avoid them as much as possible, knowing that, of course, you’re just going to do the best you can. It’s not like you’re suddenly a bad mom now if you don’t, you know, if you don’t.

Kimberly Snyder (23:16.718)
You’re right.

cate (23:23.494)
you know, make sure that your child is not getting any at all, any last scraps. But in Dark Calories, I teach you exactly how to tell, you know, whether or not it’s listed, if it’s listed on something, how do you know if it’s okay? Because there are things that, you know, even though I consider myself 100 % avoiding them, there are things that it will be on the label, but it’s in such a tiny minute amount, it really, I mean, in my opinion, shouldn’t be on the label.

Kimberly Snyder (23:50.126)
Got it. that’s good to know.

cate (23:50.182)
because it’s not really significant. Yeah, it’s not really significant. So the dose does make the poison and a teeny teeny tiny dose is that you can ignore it. So but it’s important to know how to tell is the dose teeny teeny tiny. So you got to learn how to do that. I’ll teach you how in the book.

Kimberly Snyder (24:09.902)
I love that. Yes, there’s, you know, you outlined so much here. The history was quite fascinating as I started to go through the book. Wow. I mean, it’s quite shocking. So you’re also telling us, Dr. Kate, as well as many other experts, we had Udo Erasmus on here a while ago. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him. Colleague. So we’re not saying not to have oils and fat completely. These are important part of our diet.

cate (24:31.558)
Yeah, I know him. Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (24:39.31)
Can you teach us or tell us a little bit about what oils we can and should be cooking with and even how much, there’s a lot of contention around this topic as well, around how much oil we should even be using, right? There’s other experts out there that say, cook with very little oil. Some say use more. Can you tell us your ideas on this?

cate (25:04.038)
Yeah, so I think people may have heard that Esselstyn and Colin Campbell, I don’t know if you’ve talked about them before, but Esselstyn actually is, he’s not just plant strong, but he’s actually vegan. And the same with Colin Campbell. Now Esselstyn and Campbell both have done some clinical research where they show you can reverse cardiovascular disease with a vegan diet. But what is not emphasized, it’s kind of like the secret to…

Kimberly Snyder (25:11.79)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (25:18.094)
Yes.

cate (25:33.862)
why it really works, I think, is that they avoid all the vegetable oils. But in their minds, the vegetable, any vegetable oil is bad, right? They don’t make the distinction between these factory refined oils that I think we need to focus on and every other oil that’s been used by humanity for thousands of years. That does not make any sense to avoid, right? They don’t make the distinction. And I think it’s because, you know, they have the experience of…

Kimberly Snyder (25:37.774)
Mmm.

cate (26:03.366)
They don’t have the chemistry background really to understand why there’s such a difference. And doctors don’t learn enough chemistry. We do learn some. We’re required to take some courses. But I would never have understood any of this myself if I had not really been a chemistry aficionado. I loved chemistry, biochemistry. I went to Cornell to study it in their PhD program.

I wanted to learn how to engineer bacteria that could break plastic down. And this was back in the late 80s when we didn’t even have water bottles in the foods to play and plastics were already a problem, right? So I was really into biochemistry and I, that was before I went to medical school. And I learned at that point in time that polyunsaturated fats would be attacked by oxygen. And I learned it and I went to medical school and you know, went poof out of my head because.

none of it seems relevant to anything. No, they don’t, right? It wasn’t linked. And it wasn’t until I got sick myself that these two different interests, the biochemistry and human health, that I could connect them. And I figured out how to connect them. And so that was a huge breakthrough for me in my career. But that just doesn’t like most people in this space, they’d

Kimberly Snyder (26:59.662)
We don’t link it all together.

cate (27:25.19)
haven’t made those connections between oxidation of polyunsaturated fats and in human health. And so for 20 years, I’ve been making those connections. You know, I mentioned it in deep nutrition in my first book, I started talking about the toxicity of these oils. And then as time has gone by, I’ve just kept learning more and more about exactly what they do to us. And it’s been so mind blowing for me that I’ve been just forced. I feel like like,

Kimberly Snyder (27:33.646)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (27:43.054)
Yes.

cate (27:54.342)
compelled to write more and share this information with folks like you, Kimberly, and your audience and the rest of the world, hopefully.

Kimberly Snyder (27:55.694)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (28:02.862)
Yes, well, I can feel your passion, Dr. K, I’m getting goosebumps. Thank you so much for being such an advocate. One of the things I loved about your deep nutrition book as well was you talked about traditional foods. My mother came from the Philippines. She came here in her twenties. And so we grew up eating a lot of Filipino food. She always cooked with coconut oil. And there’s these controversies at different points in time around the coconut oil and the…

you know, saturated fat and all the things. And she always said, I, you know, feels healthy to me. Like I had this growing up. This is what our ancestral lineage always used. So she never succumbed to the, you know, the vegetable oil craze. We did have some olive oil for salads, but let’s, you know, let’s talk about this in practical terms. Well, how would you rate that Dr. Kate, we use a little bit of olive oil in salads.

lots of vegetables and we cook with coconut oil, which I know has a high smoke point. What do you think?

cate (29:05.062)
Well, smoke point, yeah, let’s talk about smoke point in a second, but first let’s talk about what matters more than smoke point, which is does it oxidize when you heat it? And because glucagon oil is so highly saturated, it will not. So, you know, if you want to think of fatty acids this way, maybe this will help. So, poly and satirists are kind of like glass. If you drop them, they’re going to explode. Whereas, saturates are kind of like metal. Like you can pound them with a mallet.

Kimberly Snyder (29:14.35)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (29:28.494)
Mmm.

cate (29:33.254)
that oxygen here being the mallet and nothing happens. But fatty acids, the glass version of it is that you drop them on the floor, oxygen also being the floor here, and it will shatter. So you want the stable ones for heating. And here’s the big tragedy. And it especially affects people who are vegan or don’t want to eat animal products.

The American Heart Association started telling people lies about saturated fat in the 1950s. And that informed medical education, informs medical education to this very day. And so doctors learned that saturated fats aren’t healthy. They’ll raise your cholesterol, clog your arteries. They’re just all kinds of bad. They’ll give you strokes.

Kimberly Snyder (30:21.39)
Mmm.

cate (30:30.534)
They even blame saturated fat and cholesterol for things like cancer and diabetes and stuff like that. They blame it for everything. This is corrupted science. All of the information coming from the American Heart Association since 1948 has been corrupted. And in Dark Calories, I tell the story of how this corruption began. I don’t know if you got to that part.

Kimberly Snyder (30:55.598)
Yes, I did. I did. I got all the way through to eating to heal. Yeah.

cate (31:02.566)
Excellent. Okay. Well now you’re about to get to the best part. But yeah, so, you know, dark calories, let me just kind of sum it up here for folks. Dark calories tells the story of the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the human population by a medical organization because it’s a biggest scandal because it affects every single one of us. It affects every doctor’s education and it affects what your doctor.

learns about diet. It affects what doctors who write books and who are interviewed for magazines learn about diet. It has completely corrupted the truth. And this scandal happened starting about 70 years ago. And what it is is that the American Heart Association took money from Procter & Gamble, which sold vegetable oils. So they took their money.

Kimberly Snyder (31:57.742)
Hmm.

cate (31:59.59)
And then immediately afterwards, they started doing something completely unethical. They started promoting vegetable oils as heart healthy, as a way to prevent heart attacks. And they started.

Kimberly Snyder (32:11.95)
in all sorts of things like frying with it, using it in margarine, all kinds of things. Yeah.

cate (32:15.686)
Yeah, and every which way you want to use it. And they showed fried chicken. Yeah, not exactly a health food because of the deep frying and is never really that great. But.

Kimberly Snyder (32:25.358)
Well, the flowers and everything, the whole thing.

cate (32:28.038)
Yeah, right. And so, so, but what they did, so it’s not just that they took the money and they started promoting these oils as heart healthy. Then they did something even worse. They spent the next several decades using that money to fund research in scare quotes here. And I really mean scare. Research supposedly showing that saturated fats raise cholesterol and led to having a heart attack. But all of that research was

basically funded by Procter & Gamble and it was spearheaded by a man who was a bully and had an agenda to just make himself well known. He did not care. His name was Ansel Keys. You probably mentioned him before.

Kimberly Snyder (33:09.486)
What was his name?

Yes. I mentioned him and he is front and center in this chapter I was reading. Well, you know, it’s in here. It’s chapter. Truth about cholesterol.

cate (33:22.822)
Yeah, I think it’s called, yeah, it’s called like Ansel Keys and the American Heart Association or something like that.

Kimberly Snyder (33:31.182)
Yeah, it’s pretty on the head. Wait, so all this is so fuzzy and there’s politics involved. I’ll ask you a straight question, doctor. Can we have though, too much saturated fat? There has to be some sort of limit. Otherwise, what if you’re just eating saturated fat all day long? What is that doing to your arteries? What’s that doing to our cardiovascular health?

cate (33:54.374)
So now you’re asking about a question of balance. Right.

Kimberly Snyder (33:57.518)
Yes. All or nothing back to our, you know, premise here.

cate (34:01.766)
Yeah. Yes, you don’t want to eat nothing but coconut oil, right? Because coconut oil doesn’t have the essential fatty acids that our bodies also need.

Kimberly Snyder (34:11.086)
What about all red meat? What about these carnivore diet people not having any fiber, right? There’s extreme diets out there in many arenas.

cate (34:19.558)
Yes. So all of these, so what I did myself is when I wrote Deep Nutrition, and I don’t know if you like this part of it or not, but what I did was I looked at all the traditional diets around the world, including those of my patients in Hawaii who are mostly from the Philippines, by the way.

Kimberly Snyder (34:38.126)
and we live part of the time in Hawaii.

cate (34:41.094)
So, yeah, so what I found was that people everywhere, whether it’s the Philippines, Hawaii, Alaska, Africa, Italy, France, you know, anywhere in Asia, India, you name it. They all did the same four things. And it all boils down to one thing, which is they used everything in their environment that was edible for a human. They defined our human diet. They defined it because the

the creatures that preceded humans that did not eat the way our ancestors ate did not end up as humans. That’s what the amazing thing about epigenetics, which is what I discussed in deep nutrition. Epigenetics changes us at a genetic level. And you do this for thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years, you change the species.

Kimberly Snyder (35:37.134)
Wow.

cate (35:37.926)
That makes it very important to know what a traditional diet is. And Kimberly, I truly wholeheartedly believe that if your mother had adhered to her, you know, traditional upbringing, then it, you know, brought you great health that you are benefiting right now because of that. Like she wanted to cook traditional and she stuck with it. Maybe not 100%, but the more that she stuck with it, the better because that is what brings us health. And vegetable oils are the opposite.

Kimberly Snyder (35:53.422)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (36:01.39)
Yes.

cate (36:07.462)
of a traditional diet. They didn’t even exist until 150 years ago, right? They’re not part of any human diet anywhere on the planet. And you could argue, you know, you could argue that, you know, sure, some people somewhere, they probably ate nothing but meat. And although I would say that they did it a little differently than what we than the carnivores today are doing. And you can certainly argue that there were people on the planet that at least for short periods of times ate nothing but plants.

But you can never argue that people, healthy people, lived on these oils. Certainly not the degree to we do. I mean, they didn’t, they simply didn’t exist. And they are unique for the reasons we talked about earlier. They’re uniquely toxic. And they are, I didn’t mention this, but part of the refining that strips out all those horrible tasting and smelling and caustic compounds also strips out the protective antioxidants that nature put.

Kimberly Snyder (36:41.934)
Right.

cate (37:03.238)
puts to protect her fragile polyunsaturates. Nature’s not stupid. That’s why soybeans themselves are full of vitamin E. And that’s why sunflower seeds are also full of vitamin E, another very important antioxidant, and they’re totally fine to eat. But again, even those, you don’t want to just base your diet on soy or sunflower. You know what I mean? So it’s a question of balance. Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (37:14.542)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (37:22.286)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (37:26.382)
It’s a balance. Yes.

cate (37:29.798)
And the way to answer that is what could our ancestors have done? What was going dialing back maybe 500 years, right? There was maybe don’t even need to go that far, 200 years. The typical self -sufficient farmer, the typical person was raising most of their own food, right? Unless you lived in cities, very few people lived in cities until recently.

We don’t talk about that much in the nutrition world, but it’s very relevant because it’s changed our diet profoundly.

Kimberly Snyder (38:03.15)
right, canning, industrialization, it’s just gotten so many.

cate (38:07.206)
Yeah. And so before this, people were food self -sufficient the way they were largely in Hawaii until very, very recently. And so that’s why my Filipino patients were so excellent at keeping traditions alive because they had to. There was no electricity. There was no refrigeration on Kauai until the late 1970s. And so I was there in the early 2000s and my patients, they were brought up totally food self -sufficient.

Kimberly Snyder (38:27.15)
Right.

cate (38:36.614)
They grew a lot of their, they still, even though they weren’t no longer had to be totally self -sufficient, but it’s what you can grow in your area. And so they ate plants, animals, fish, you know, they hunted for pigs on different islands, they hunted for different things. So it was a diverse, omnivorous diet. And so, you know, I am not advocating for plant strong, I’m not advocating for carnivore.

And I myself follow an omnivorous diet and I totally believe in choice and doing what you feel is right for your body. But I do think it’s important to know what our ancestors did. And, and that’s what I base all of, all of my recommendations on. But that said, I do have lots of totally, you know, I eat lots of non -meat meals myself and I have lots of super fast, easy, completely plant -based meals that,

Kimberly Snyder (39:12.494)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (39:21.614)
Mm. Mm.

Kimberly Snyder (39:33.87)
Yes.

cate (39:34.854)
that you can start following in the last third of the book, which helps. That’s where we dive into the practical part, the part you’re just about to get into, eating to heal.

Kimberly Snyder (39:44.302)
That’s right. And you know, we, my dear friend, Dan Buettner has been on here a couple of times. Dr. Kate, I don’t know if you’re friends with him or you know him at all. So he, one of the things he was talking about with the Okinawans was that, you know, we talked about the ancestral foods and they started eating such a huge percentage of their diet, that purple sweet potato, because the winds were so strong.

cate (39:52.678)
I don’t know him that well.

Kimberly Snyder (40:06.446)
that that potato grew underground and it was hardy and that it was accessible through their weather conditions. So they ended up eating so much of this antioxidant rich and very fibrous vegetable. So anyways, it did their environment shaped their diet and across these blue zones, we’re seeing a lot of fiber, we’re seeing, you know, really healthy, like you said, diversity, gut microbiome. They,

cate (40:22.854)
Yeah, yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (40:32.334)
don’t eat as much meat, but they’re eating meat, but it’s in smaller percentages because they’re eating largely peasant foods. And that’s what they had access to on a more regular diet. But certainly olive oil was part of the equation. And so was coconut oil. So back to what I was saying, we don’t have to be scared to cook with oil at all or to have any fats in our diet. Fat, as you go into great detail in your book as well, is an important macronutrient.

for our energy, for our health. So we don’t want to be scared of it. We just want to avoid the seed oils and focus on, maybe we can talk about this for a moment, avocados, coconut, some of the healthier fats.

cate (41:11.878)
Yeah, absolutely. So we have to consider oxidation and oxidative stress. And so avocado, for example, well, actually, let me step back. What causes oxidative stress? It’s exposure to oxygen and heat, right? So refining does that. And so for an oil to be healthy, it has to be virgin. This is true, whether it’s coconut or avocado or olive.

Kimberly Snyder (41:34.798)
Okay.

cate (41:41.382)
Right? You know, so extra virgin and virgin both mean they are not refined. But it’s only olives that have those two categories, and it’s only olives that even use the term virgin. So for the other oils, it’s just you should look for unrefined versus refined. Now,

Kimberly Snyder (41:41.934)
Extra virgin.

Kimberly Snyder (41:48.398)
Mmm.

cate (42:01.766)
I actually have three categories of oils. So I have the hateful eight, which try to get them out of your life to every drop if you can, except for where it doesn’t matter, where there’s really not that much in there. And then there’s the good stuff, that you can just have as much of this as you want. And your body’s natural appetites should kind of help you. You’re gonna get sick of coconut oil if you have nothing but that, honestly, right? Sesame oil is good too. If you have…

you know, nothing but sesame oil, that’s not healthy either. And if your appetite centers are working right, then you should kind of get sick of it and you can start craving some other stuff. But the middle category is something that we haven’t talked about yet. And that is my okay, but not great category. And that refers to the oils that would be good if they weren’t refined. So that’s your coconut, your olive, your avocado and your peanuts.

Kimberly Snyder (42:42.99)
Mm.

cate (42:52.262)
Those are all okay, but not great when they are refined. They’re good. They’re supposed to be unrefined and that makes them good. Really, honestly, any oil is good if it’s unrefined. It’s just that you don’t see unrefined sunflower oil in the food supply, right?

Kimberly Snyder (42:52.59)
Hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (42:57.934)
It can be unrefined, you get unrefined coconut water.

Got it.

Kimberly Snyder (43:11.918)
Is it okay to cook with sesame oil since it is a more delicate oil or should that only be used after you’ve cooked? Can you cook with it? Can you heat it?

cate (43:23.622)
Yeah, you can, but you know, traditionally people did not do much cooking with it. They would add it at the end for flavor. And so see this traditional knowledge is like somehow they knew the right thing to do. And I know I don’t know, I honestly can’t answer that question because I’m not a big believer in just like ordained from on high. But I tell you what keeps coming up again and again, that traditional knowledge is

Kimberly Snyder (43:29.07)
Right.

Yes, that’s right.

Kimberly Snyder (43:39.534)
Are you ready to do this?

cate (43:52.998)
aligns with biochemistry and science. So it’s amazing.

Kimberly Snyder (43:57.358)
What about roasting and heating nuts, Dr. Kate? Dry roasting. Obviously we want to avoid the nuts that are coated in the crappy oils we’re mentioning, but let’s say you cook with sesame seeds, you fry them up in the pan or, what is this doing to the composition of the nuts and their oils?

cate (44:07.302)
Yeah. Yeah.

cate (44:20.134)
So just for listeners, all these great questions are answered in the book. So you don’t have to like take notes or memorize or anything, because they’re.

Kimberly Snyder (44:24.974)
Yes, I know. Here it is again, dark calories. It is so thorough. There’s so much information. Yeah.

cate (44:30.79)
because they’re great questions and people have asked me them a thousand times. So that’s why I just put it in the book. So I can answer it though. I can answer it right now for you Kimberly. So yeah, so roasted nuts, they enhance the flavor and they are not toxic, but they’re not quite as healthy because heat accelerates oxygen, right? Oxidation and it does destroy some nutrients. And it’s not even just the…

Kimberly Snyder (44:39.182)
Yeah, please.

Kimberly Snyder (44:51.95)
the natures. Yeah.

cate (45:00.454)
the fatty acids, it’s also the proteins, that nitrogen that we touched on earlier when I was talking about protein powders not being so great for us. The nitrogen and the amino acids in nuts also can get oxidized. So you’re just losing a little bit of nutrition there. And it’s not becoming extraordinarily toxic like the stuff in vegetable oils, but it is becoming something that our body will have to now use its detoxification enzymes to eliminate. And it can, it can. There’s things that…

Kimberly Snyder (45:25.422)
Mm, mm.

cate (45:29.158)
There’s toxins that are so bad that they, you know, they, our bodies cannot eliminate them without sustaining some damage. And those are the kinds of toxins I worry the most about. But you’re not going to get those with just, you know, roasted nuts. However, there’s an alternative. And maybe you’ve talked about these, the soaked and sprouted.

Kimberly Snyder (45:41.326)
Got it.

Kimberly Snyder (45:46.862)
Yes. yes. I’m a big soaking person, sprouting person. And we buy a lot of sprouted nuts these days. I used to have a whole situation in my kitchen before I had kids. I used to sprout a lot of my own sprouts. I just don’t have the time for it anymore, unfortunately. But I know that does enhance digestion. It makes them easier to really assimilate in the body.

cate (45:58.478)
I’m going to go ahead and close the video.

cate (46:12.006)
And it enhances the flavor too, right? Like you almost get that roast delicious roasted flavor without the destruction. And in fact, there’s perhaps some enhancement that’s gone on. So I’m a huge fan of that. And I don’t ever do nuts myself. I tried once and I just got a bunch of slime. And so thank goodness there’s a lot of comfort.

Kimberly Snyder (46:14.862)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (46:31.918)
Well, and then on the other hand, Dr. Kate, while we’re talking about the actual form in which we’re consuming these products, what about charring or grilling meat? Right? Because I know you can have a certain amount of… Everybody’s body is different, but what about we hear about all the carcinogens from that, the grilling? Yeah, and just all the nitrates and all of that. What’s that doing to the fat, the saturated fat, or what’s being released in the meat?

cate (46:52.582)
The black. Yeah.

cate (46:57.446)
Yeah. Okay.

cate (47:02.694)
Yeah, so the problem is the excessive heat can take food of any kind, whether it’s plant or animal, to denature it so much that it becomes basically char. And at that point, it is in that more toxic category that you really now you are possibly sustaining some damage before your body can eliminate it. That’s true for blackened meats. It’s true for blackened vegetables. It’s true for blackened marshmallows.

Kimberly Snyder (47:06.862)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (47:31.182)
Is it? Anything? –

cate (47:32.806)
What’s that? Anything black. Don’t eat char. Don’t eat too much char. Right? Like we can have a little bit if we really love the flavor. But it’s like you read my mind. I’m actually releasing another article all about heat. Like what is the temperature at which our food becomes dangerously unhealthy? And it’s right about right around 400 where you roast stuff.

Kimberly Snyder (47:50.35)
Sorry.

Kimberly Snyder (47:56.75)
Yeah.

cate (48:01.83)
Right? And so even roasting vegetables in an onion at 400 for a long time till they get black, there’s a difference between black and brown. It turns out that, you know, our instincts to recognize that black as something that has been burnt, again, are so spot on. And we recognize brown as something that might be tastier because it creates new flavor compounds that are actually, they are not toxic at all, but they just taste delicious.

Kimberly Snyder (48:03.694)
I’m out.

Kimberly Snyder (48:31.63)
Wow. So Dr. Kate, if someone does eat me, I’m thinking of my husband now. Would you say smoking something at a lower temperature is a preferred cooking method over grilling something, searing it quickly?

cate (48:48.87)
Yeah, you want to so smoking and steaming and the methods that don’t turn it black are all perfectly fine. And the the the temperature is right around 400. Right. So if you’re talking about, you know, anything that keeps it moist, whether it’s steam or stew or in a soup, that’s going to stay under the boiling point of water. So that’s fantastic. Right.

Kimberly Snyder (49:16.366)
Right, right. Yeah.

cate (49:19.014)
And you know what, most of our history, and again, a lot of nutrition, people in the nutrition space, they don’t talk about human history, what we did, you know, in terms of cooking. They’ll go all the way back to the paleo era. They’ll go all the way back to hunter gatherers. But there were tens of thousands of years where we were, you know, in settled communities and we were doing some really smart things. We were cooking. They don’t talk about the cooking techniques. That’s so important because people did not have stove tops. They didn’t have ovens.

Kimberly Snyder (49:44.014)
Right.

cate (49:48.358)
You know, we did not have ovens until, they did not. And their cooking methods were very primitive. And so they were tended to be low temperature. And for example, like boiling, they would just get pots or leather sacks. You can actually boil in a leather sack. Did you know that? It’s actually possible to boil water. Yeah, so people figured out how to boil water. So,

Kimberly Snyder (49:50.19)
They didn’t have refrigerators. Everything was crushed. Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (50:01.87)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (50:12.238)
No.

cate (50:16.71)
a lot of their food was boiled. On Hawaii, they cooked pig by burying it underground. They would dig a big pit, line it with banana leaves, throw the entire pig in there, it was gutted. They would actually put, before they threw the pig in, they would put some hot rocks in the stomach of the pig to start the cooking with the hot rocks, throw more hot rocks on after they covered the pig with banana leaves, and cover it with dirt and leave it for hours.

That is low temperature, that’s a slow cooker in the greenhouse. So slow cooking is the way to cook your food if you’re gonna cook it. I think it’s one of the healthiest. But steaming is essentially slow cooking. You don’t need to steam vegetables for hours. Like broccoli, we’ve done steaming in about 10 minutes. So that’s a low heat cooking method. So those are the best, they preserve the nutrients. And if the…

Kimberly Snyder (50:46.574)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (51:06.862)
Mm -hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (51:11.214)
Yeah.

cate (51:14.598)
food is of quality, it will have a lot of flavor. Sadly, these days our vegetables don’t have the flavor. So we have to do things. And if we don’t know how to do these things, we will fall prey to the processed food industry because we will not get the flavors that we know that we crave. But the processed food industry, they know how to recreate those. But what we’re craving is like the nutrients in herbs and spices and nutrients that…

Kimberly Snyder (51:17.966)
Hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (51:31.31)
Hmm.

cate (51:44.23)
flavors that indicate minerals and antioxidants and stuff that our bodies really need.

Kimberly Snyder (51:50.51)
Mm. I feel like a lot of people could use a reset doctor. I’ve reset a couple of times where I just do really simple diet resets my salt levels and many other, you know, aspects of my diet. And then I go back to a more simple, because I always teach you one pot meals, simple cooking just to help people.

not feel like they have to make all these fancy recipes. It doesn’t have to take all of your time, but at home, you’re in control of the oils. You can add all these amazing herbs and spices. It can taste really great. And I love that you give some food and you have recipes in this book as well. And you also talk about some different dietary protocols here. You have a two week challenge, planning, simple meals. I love how you stress simplicity in your program too, Dr. Kate. Can I ask you, I don’t say this is, it’s not a controversial question, but.

Can we hear about so many different things with statins? Can I just ask you about this? You mentioned this in your book before we move on here.

cate (52:50.15)
It’s really important to understand that cholesterol is a nutrient. And this gets back to this big scam that the American Heart Association started, it kicked off in the late 1940s. Because the whole argument is that saturated fat is bad because it raises your cholesterol and cholesterol clogs arteries and causes heart attacks. That was not true. But they’ve just created so much, like I said, that…

after that initial lie, they did something worse. They created a pile of falsified evidence that they keep churning out. They still do this every month, every week. They produce another scientific paper that is completely biased and completely false to reinforce the idea that cholesterol clogs heart attacks and keep their…

Keep your doctor afraid of you having a healthy high cholesterol level. And so that they’ll continue to, they never have to admit they were wrong. They never have to admit that they lied to us. You know, they never have to admit that they lied because they accepted money from industry, that they are a corrupt organization. This is the American Heart Association I’m talking about. They are the people that inform doctors and every other medical association about how to prevent heart attacks and about what is a healthy fat.

and what is an unhealthy fat and they are corrupted and they are feeding us a bill of goods. They are force feeding us the worst, they’re still saying, earlier you mentioned something that nobody thinks these oils are healthy. I guess I should point out that your doctor does, right?

Kimberly Snyder (54:32.654)
Maybe, maybe, maybe we could say they’re neutral or maybe they’re not informed, but I don’t, I hope they don’t think they’re healthy.

cate (54:44.198)
They do, they say on the bottle, heart healthy. This is how the American Heart Association first sold that excess soy oil to the American housewife who didn’t like it, because it has no flavor. She wanted to use her traditional butter. And at that point, a lot of people were using lard and bacon fat. Of course they were using coconut oil. They wanted to use their traditional oils, but these were sold as better than all of that. They were sold as better than olive oil.

Kimberly Snyder (54:54.414)
Hmm.

Kimberly Snyder (55:11.822)
Right. Wow. Wow.

cate (55:15.718)
And that’s what your doctors believe. That’s what the top cardiologists in the country, you know, if you have somebody in your family that has had a heart attack and they’re like, well, at least I’ve got a good cardiologist. That doctor is brainwashed by the American Heart Association’s pile of corrupted research.

Kimberly Snyder (55:31.886)
Dr. Kate, I could talk to you forever. There’s so much amazing information here in Dark Calories. You could leave us with a few thoughts. I think I know the first one. Avoid those eight vegetable oils. No matter what, check the label. Switch on your fats. You have very specific lists in your book. So we know all those refined, toxic vegetable oils are ones that need to go. What else can you leave us with?

top tips and all your amazing research.

cate (56:04.806)
Yes, so here’s something we didn’t even get to touch on. That is, I know there’s a lot in there to talk about, but please buy the book or invite me back on. No, I don’t want to tell you what to do. So the thing that we didn’t get to talk about is hangry. Hangry.

Kimberly Snyder (56:07.886)
Sorry, there’s so many, yes.

Yes.

Yes, I will.

Kimberly Snyder (56:22.702)
yes, I wrote that down. Good, hungry, bad, hungry, nutrient, like our brains are deprived of nutrients. Yes, to tell.

cate (56:29.03)
Our brains are starving for sugar because vegetable oils radically alter our metabolism. They disrupt our cravings. They make our brain think that sugar is good. Sugar is the only kind of energy out there. And I explain how they do that. But they rewire our entire appetites. They rewire our relationship with food. Vegetable oils drive us to sweets and to…

Refined carbohydrates that raise our blood sugar quickly. They drive path they cause this Pathologic hunger that makes us crave Carbohydrates and crave sugars and makes it very difficult for us to stay on a healthy diet because we’re craving extremely sweet Foods and we’re craving extremely refined carbohydrates. We have a metabolic need for it a Meta but true metabolic need because they damaged our metabolism

Kimberly Snyder (57:11.309)
Ugh.

Kimberly Snyder (57:20.27)
Ugh.

cate (57:27.366)
The day that you stop eating vegetable oils is not the day that your metabolism recovers, sadly. It starts to recover. It’s the day that you begin a new life. But you still have the damage. And I teach you what that is. It’s called insulin resistance. So there’s a lot to know. And that maybe is the one take -home point is that there’s more to know than you’ve been told. And that’s why I had to write Dark Calories.

Kimberly Snyder (57:39.47)
Et cetera.

Kimberly Snyder (57:51.022)
I love it. I don’t think we could end on a more perfect note. Dr. Kate, you are amazing. You’re coming from your heart. You are sharing so much important information in the world. Thank you so much for your amazing work, your wisdom, your teachings. We all need to know this. I’ve gotten goosebumps several times during this interview. It’s true. Here it is again, guys. Dark calories, how vegetable oils destroy our health and how we

cate (57:53.19)
Thank you.

cate (58:10.022)
Thank you. you’re so sweet. Thank you, Kimberly.

Kimberly Snyder (58:21.134)
can get it back. We will link to this directly in the show notes over at mysaluna .com. Also, Dr. K, can you share with us your website where we can find out more about your work, get in touch with you?

cate (58:31.814)
Yes, so please come to drkate .com, which is spelled D -R -C -A -T -E dot com. That’s my website. And then scroll down to the bottom where you can sign up for my monthly newsletter. It comes out about once a month after the initial series of, you know, which books, if any, have you read to help you figure out which one is the great, the best one to start with, that kind of thing. And then so that will keep you up to date on.

Any new articles that I release, like the one that I’m about to release about the cooking, the temperature at which food goes from being tasty to toxic. And then on social media, my handle is at Dr. Kate Shanahan. So I’m on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook at at Dr. Kate Shanahan. And you can follow me there to stay up to the minute.

Kimberly Snyder (58:59.022)
Wonderful.

Kimberly Snyder (59:17.198)
Amazing. Dr. Kate, thank you again so much. We will link to Dr. Kate’s site as well in the show notes. Thank you everyone so much for tuning in. Hope you got inspired to avoid those vegetable oils and to go a bit further in learning about history and what is really going on here in our diet because we have to self -advocate. We will be back here Thursday as always for our next Q &A show. Remember on the website, there’s a tab there in the podcast section. You can ask me questions.

around our four cornerstones, food, body, emotional wellbeing, and spiritual growth. Always here to support, always here for your questions. Thank you so much. Sending you much love and see you back here soon.