Marriage in Modern Times with Hubby Jon Bier [Episode #819]
This week’s topic is: Marriage in Modern Times with Hubby Jon Bier
I am so excited to have my very own hubby, Jon Bier, back on the show today where we talk about the benefits of the institution of marriage. And of course this is from our personal experience. We pulled some stats to talk about and discuss organically. And the purpose of our show today is really to share how marriage has helped our growth so much in our lives, in our spiritual journey, in our personal journey, and our journey as a family.
And we don’t always hear positive things about marriage today. There’s a lot of people that believe it’s not necessary or that cohabitation is fine and replaces marriage and all of that. Of course, we completely respect all of that is fine. We respect everyone’s personal beliefs. However, today we wanted to share why marriage has been so amazing in our lives. And I hope you enjoy this conversation with hubby.
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Kimberly: 00:00 Namaste loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I am so excited to have my very own hubby, Jon Bier back on the show today where we talk about the benefits of the institution of marriage. And of course this is from our personal experience. We pulled some stats to talk about and discuss organically. And the purpose of our show today is really to share how marriage has helped our growth so much in our lives, in our spiritual journey, in our personal journey, and our journey as a family. And we don’t always hear positive things about marriage today. There’s a lot of people that believe it’s not necessary or that cohabitation is fine and replaces marriage and all of that. Of course, we completely respect all of that is fine. We respect everyone’s personal belief. But today we wanted to share why marriage has been so amazing in our lives. And so I hope you enjoy this conversation with hubby and I right after our short announcements here.
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02:22 I also want to mention that our show notes are always posted at mysolluna.com and there’s also a tab where you can submit your questions for our Thursday Q&A show and I could almost guarantee if you have a question, others do as well. We see a lot of the same repeated questions, so it’s wonderful to put your question in the pot and to support others as well by highlighting an issue or challenge you may be going through that others would also benefit from. I also want to mention that the core of our philosophy at Solluna, which is really a holistic lifestyle in harmony with the power of nature, is based around our four cornerstones, which are food, body, emotional wellbeing, and spiritual growth. So if you’re looking to really upgrade your lifestyle and your health and your energy and your vitality overall, your natural beauty, please check out our free download over on our website, which is a starter kit with practical tips and tools around each of our cornerstones. Alright, all that being said, let’s get into our podcast today where hubby and I talk all things marriage.
Interview with Hubby Jon Bier
Kimberly: 00:01 All right, babe. Thanks so much for coming back on our show. Very excited to have you back here in the woman cave.
Jon: 00:07 Oh God, I forgot how sensuous it is down here. Smells. The fabrics. The rugs under my toes. I nice to be back. Thank you.
Kimberly: 00:20 So today we’re going to be talking about marriage, which is a really interesting conversation these days. I actually pulled a bunch of research, which we’ll get into a moment, and it’s something that you and I have talked about. It’s a really important thing in our life, and it’s something that people view in different ways now than they did before for different reasons. A lot of people are cohabitating instead of getting married, a lot of people sort of shun the idea of marriage. Some people embrace the idea of marriage. This topic came forward because you and I, or I befriended a woman in Hawaii that we met and her husband named Faith and Justice, and they’re in their late seventies, and they were talking about how important marriage was for society as a grounding just part of society. And you and I believe in that too. So the point of this podcast isn’t to convince, but it is to share why we enjoy marriage and why our viewpoints on it. And of course just have a really open discussion around it.
Jon: 01:27 And I think it’s important to note that I have not received any of these questions in advance. This is all going to be from the heart off the cuff.
Kimberly: 01:39 Oh yeah. So I was just interested in this idea. I think about our friends groups and we have different groups of friends and we have friends that are married and then we have a lot of friends that aren’t married. And it’s interesting now that I looked up all these stats. The marriage rate in the United States is down by nearly 60% over the last 50 years. There’s a lot of reasons for that statistic. One of them is that, as I mentioned before, there’s a trend towards cohabitation and living together. And I found a really interesting statistic here that showed that if people did cohabitate before they got married, they were actually far more likely to get divorced if they got married. So here’s another interesting statistic and then we’ll talk about the reasons to get married. But the number one reason for divorce is 75% of all individuals cited couples cited that the reason they got divorced, three out of four is a lack of commitment.
02:55 Isn’t that interesting? So we talk about commitment a lot, whether that’s to a habit, it’s to a lifestyle, it’s to meditation. It uses what the great yoga guru, Paramahansa Yogananda talks about this idea of dynamic will, which is deciding to do something and following through with it. So one of the things you and I talk about babe a lot and our relationship is that we’re committed to each other. We’ve had to work a lot on our communication. We have different lifestyles, we see things in different ways. We have different triggers. We had different childhoods, many different things, but we’re committed to each other, meaning that we also work on ourselves individually and within the marriage. So it’s interesting that knowing that though, so many people go in and they end up not committing through the whole relationship. Yeah, I
Jon: 03:50 Think there’s a lot to unpack there. I think that you have to go into this. I think people sometimes get married because people around them are getting married because they’re a certain time in their life and because they want to have children and because they’re compatible with a certain person. But compatibility is one element of it, but it isn’t the whole thing. And certainly you have to go from my perspective, you have to be very intentional with knowing that this is the most important relationship in my life. That this is something that is not always easy. It’s not always fun. It’s not always going to be roses,
04:39 Wild, passionate sex every night and date nights and all the things, although that’s a great bonus. There’s sharing a life together. And that has to be really intentional. I always tell my friends, and I’m known to give unsolicited relationship advice from time to time, but I tell my friends if they’re having serious cold feet before they get married, not just little nerves, but if they’re having serious cold feet before they’re getting married, do not get married. That is your body and your nervous system and everything telling you that. To me, something hasn’t fully been thought through that those nerves are there, those excessive nerves are there for a reason. When we got married, I ran to it. There was not a nerve in my body. I met you, we saw each other, and I was like, I don’t want to spend another day not married to this person. And that was important to me, but there was no nerves.
Kimberly: 05:42 And you know what, baby? One thing about the
Jon: 05:43 Marriage part,
Kimberly: 05:45 There was one thing that I’ve always said about you. And one thing that I know I’ve developed in myself through my meditation practice, this clarity that comes from intuition. So of the things when people are saying, oh, I don’t know if I want to be committed to this person, like you said, they have nerves, they have doubt. When you’re really in tune with your intuition, which feels to me like it’s coming from your heart, it’s this inner guidance, this inner voice, it’s beyond making list about someone you like or really thinking, oh, our families get along, or whatever it is on the surface. When you have a knowing, that’s when in our case especially there’s this, yes, I can commit to this. I know it’s going to be work, but this is going to ride out the storm. So I would say in any big decision, including marriage, the more we clarify our relationship with our intuition, the more we can feel sure about all our big decisions.
Jon: 06:44 And I think when you make that commitment, you commit to brutal honesty,
Kimberly: 06:50 Which
Jon: 06:50 Is not easy to do. And I don’t just mean not lying, that’s one part of it, but not omitting because an omission is a lie. And often it’s much easier to omit because it’s like, oh, I don’t want to talk about this right now. It’s not that big a deal. It’s something that I just would rather not deal with. And so what you do is you omit or you enable and you enable something that your partner has that is unrealistic, that doesn’t work for you because it’s not that big a deal and you’d rather not have a difficult conversation. But when you commit to brutal honesty, that means that you have to be really self-aware and not enable. And by the
Kimberly: 07:36 Way, and in yourself, you have to see your own
Jon: 07:39 Flaws. And we’ll say that we all do it from time to time. Usually we do it from time to time and then we catch ourselves, then we try and talk about it and go through it that way. But sometimes it just happens unconsciously.
Kimberly: 07:52 Well, yes, and I think that one of the things that yoga and certainly many or pretty much all world religions uphold the institution of marriage because it is this way, this tool for going deeper in your self-growth, in your spiritual growth, in having to look at yourself. If you pick a partner that aligns with your values, it really does bring out things for you to see in yourself. We talk about brutal honesty. You really have to look in the mirror and see when you aren’t communicating well, when we are bringing our old baggage, our stories, whatever it is. But again, back to what we were saying or what I was wanting to say with the podcast is marriage means I commit to this. And you can’t just walk away if you’re in a relationship cohabitating. But when you’re married, you’ve made this commitment. So even when you really have to face yourself and it’s really hard and the self-work part has been huge for you and I both, you’re in it. You’re committed to it. And that to me is the difference between marriage and a partnership. Where you’re cohabitating is it is a different energy. And people have different opinions about this. Some people say, oh, we’re living together. It doesn’t matter if we’re married or not. But for you and I, we did not live together officially before we got married. And when we did get married, it made a very different, it was very different energy. And it’s different saying, this is my husband, this is my wife, than to
Jon: 09:26 Me. It felt different. Yes, instantly it felt different. It felt different the moment we got engaged, that moment. And then from the moment we got engaged to after we got married, it felt different again after we got married. There’s just for me, and people can do whatever was comfortable for them, but I really value that traditional family unit.
Kimberly: 10:00 There’s a different kind of, I think there’s a strength that comes from commitment. Whether you’re committed to raising a child, you’re committed to a marriage, you’re committed to a lifestyle habit, being healthy or whatever it is, it means that we ride it out on the days we don’t feel like it. So there’s a character building that comes from it. And I know for you and me both, this unit is very stabilizing for us, our lives, our kids’ lives. And it also has, and you and I have talked about it, it’s really paved the path for success in our creative endeavors. I like to take a little credit, but the groundedness of marriage and family life, your business and your professional life has skyrocketed. There’s a lot that’s come from me in the books I’m writing now and the growth of sauna and all different sorts of things because it gives you a foundation.
Jon: 11:00 And it seems like people say you can’t love anyone else until you love yourself. And it’s very true because you’re not capable of that. And what can happen is that you might get married and you’ve now attracted someone like attracts, as we always say, you’ve now attracted someone that also has problems loving themselves, which we all do on some level also, but at least when we saw each other, we were at a place where we knew that and we were working on it and are still working on it, and we were able to work on it and be accountable to ourselves and accountable to each other on that.
Kimberly: 11:45 Well, that’s why I think it’s important when it comes to marriage to realize that it’s not just a commitment to the relationship, but it really is a commitment to continuing to work on yourself to be a good partner. I think so many marriages fall apart or dissolve because they blame the other person. It’s easy to get into victim mindset and then we don’t realize, oh, this is my stuff. These are old wounds. These are things that came from my childhood that I’m bringing into the marriage. And it’s actually for me to see it’s bringing it all to the surface. So that’s where that solid commitment and taking a vow together, which of course is such a serious thing, staples that in, you can’t just run away. You can’t say, okay, I’m just going to move out tomorrow. If you’re sharing an apartment, it’s a different level.
12:32 So I was doing some research, and this is from the Pew Research Center survey about the reasons people marry. And the number one reason was love. The number two reason that people cited was companionship. The next was being part of a religion together. The next was financial stability, and the next were legal rights and benefits, 71%. And this is interesting, we talk about some of the traditional roles. 71% of all people surveyed said it was important for the man to be able to support the family financially in order to be a good husband, while only 32% said the same for women. And when it came to being married, in this survey, this is from a few years ago, it said that having shared interests kept the people staying married, 64% having a satisfying sexual relationship was 61%. And 56% said they stayed married because they shared household chores. We’re moving away from the love part here, aren’t we? A little bit getting granular.
Jon: 13:57 Well, two is better than one. Those are all things that are valuable. It’s easier to share a life with two people than it is with one. And none of those stats surprise me other than the order that they rank. Because on some level, a lot of those are interesting and valuable. They’re just not the core reason.
Kimberly: 14:27 And the other thing is that while the number one reason for marriage is cited as love, and this is some of the things I’m delving into in my new book, what a lot of people think is love is actually not love to the full extent it’s attachment. It could be saturation, obsession. So those are the things that sort of bring out more. These come from the ego. So then things could come forward like possessiveness or jealousy and real love is a bit different. It’s very different. So as we go along and all over our individual journeys, I think it’s so important to know yourself, like you said, love yourself, which comes from knowing yourself deeply, personally. Then you can start to be in touch with your intuition, and then you can start to feel when real love is present versus just, oh, we share the same hobbies. We’re in the running club together.
Jon: 15:29 I think the hobbies thing is a red herring often, and I say this as you and I are aligned philosophically and spiritually on most things, but we don’t like to do the same things activity-wise necessarily. But we have a very deep partnership and connection. And I think when you both are really into skiing or something like that, a lot of the other things that are problematic are harder to see because you have this hobby kind of bolstering you for a while.
Kimberly: 16:10 But we have these deeper alignments. For instance, we both love nature. We both were so excited to have the farm in Hawaii. We love nature. I love the forest. We love farming together. So if you were into getting a city apartment and I was into the farm, that would’ve been really challenging. That’s true. We’re really aligned in the schooling of our children. We both love the Waldorf education, the big things. But sure, I’m not doing juujitsu and you’re not spending three hours a day meditating like I do. So there’s differences, but the core values are there.
Jon: 16:48 Yes.
Kimberly: 16:49 And it’s interesting when you said about your friend group getting married and so on, because there was a statistic I came across that said, if one of your friends gets divorced, your chance of getting divorced is much higher. And this goes back to what Yogananda talks about, the importance of environment, the people who you surround yourself with. If you want to be successful in business, you want to surround yourself with successful entrepreneurs and other business people. So if you do want your marriage to be supported, it’s great to surround yourself with happy couples. And that was one of the reasons I was so drawn to hanging out with faith and justice again in their late seventies. I felt like they had all this wisdom to teach us about communication and marriage, and I really looked to them as role models because in our lives, we look around and we think who around us has a really deep soul connection? And sometimes we have to really think,
Jon: 17:51 Yeah, well, they’re very interesting because I mean, anyone that has a successful marriage that is 25, 35, 45 for years, that is deeply in love, that is deeply partnered after that time, they have wisdom to share. Yes, they have a lot of wisdom to share. And I think we look over that too easy. But I mean, what more valuable is there to admire than people that have had really deep, loving long-term relationships?
Kimberly: 18:27 Exactly. And again, back to the commitment, which is why, what’s cited as the major reason for divorce to be able to be committed to the marriage, to each other through the ups and downs of life, not just in the partnership, but in yourself when things happen, and we get shook to be able to sustain that. I think on a deeper level, we all admire commitment because it means mental strength and it means emotional maturity, and it means committing to personal work and all the things. Again, we’re talking about a marriage that’s deeply connected and love not. We’re glossing over and we’re both cheating on each other and having side lives, but a real deep marriage such as they have is
Jon: 19:12 Powerful. You also can’t do that without some significant level of consciousness.
Kimberly: 19:17 Yes. And they’re very self-awareness, spiritual meditators, prey every day. There is, as we mentioned, of course, there’s levels, there’s marriages that it’s convenient or here it’s cited, there’s legal reasons, and then they’re having their own separate lives. No judgment. That’s what may work for some people, but we’re talking about that commitment to each other in the relationship itself. So back to the environmental aspect, which I thought was interesting. If a friend gets divorced, you are likely to get more likely to get divorced. It’s interesting when the data, this came from the national polls, and this was from 2021, it was interesting how different the marriage rates were per state. So for instance, the highest states in the country for marriage were Alaska and Utah at 23.5% and 22.3%. And guess which state or this is going to give it away? Guess which state or I’ll just leave it at that had the lowest rate
Jon: 20:30 Of marriage?
Kimberly: 20:31 Yes.
Jon: 20:32 New York City.
Kimberly: 20:34 It was Puerto Rico, which isn’t really a state
Jon: 20:36 I should have known when you said it would give it away. I
Kimberly: 20:38 Know. I was going to say, how do we call it protectorate? It was only 4.7%. So if you’re in a culture or an environment in a community where it’s not as common and it’s not valued, then of course that makes sense. There would be lower rates if you happen to grow up in that place. Massachusetts had the nation’s, oh, Massachusetts had a very low rate as well in the contiguous in the United States. And it’s interesting to note that New Hampshire had the lowest divorce rate in the country. So it really was, there was such a variance in states that it made me think about what we said about friend groups and those in your environment. I also want to say that we hear so much about, oh, the divorce rate, but it’s actually lower now than a decade ago. It was over 50% and now it’s between 40 and 50%. So that’s some good news. So let’s talk a little bit about cohabitation versus marriage. And again, we’re not trying to convince anybody or no judgment, no, right, wrong. But I’m interested in your thoughts about that. Baby.
Jon: 21:58 I don’t have a lot of thoughts on it. I mean, I think I know what I value for me personally, but there’s a lot of reasons people would cohabitate. There’s all those reasons that people listed as reasons why they get married. Those are valuable reasons. It’s just because everybody is looking on some level for a soulmate type of relationship doesn’t mean that everybody’s going to find that. And life is difficult. And if people are compatible and they live together and they enjoy their lives, then I think it’s great. What do you think?
Kimberly: 22:45 So I think that, again, if it works for people, then that’s wonderful. If that feels really great and fulfilling. It is what we said. It is our personal experience, because I’ve gotten that question. I post pictures of us on social media, and some people have asked me, oh, why didn’t you just enter a spiritual partnership? Why did you get married? And so for me, it’s not this, oh, we have a legal document, which is what I think some people reduce marriage down to. So in our personal experience, it wasn’t just, oh, I signed this piece of paper. It was getting married. We got married by a monk at the self-realization fellowship. It felt weighty. It felt amazing to do that in public and with our family and friends. First we did it in the courthouse, and there was this shift to saying, I’m formally saying vows. And so it’s not for, but as we mentioned, taking it to that step of commitment changed our lives and gave us, it’s like having a rock saying that no matter what’s happening and there’s going to be these ups and downs, we’re not going to walk away. And you can do that when you cohabitate.
Jon: 24:07 Yeah, I guess you can do it more easily. I mean, marriage is one of those things that there’s financial benefits under the law and also constraints under the law. But we didn’t have a spiritual marriage. We were married. We were married by a monk that wasn’t legally binding. We went and got married separately at the courthouse for the legally binding one because of those other benefits. But we got married by a monk to kind of make those vows to God, to each other, to the people that we love. It’s a gesture. It felt like a little bit of a rite of passage.
Kimberly: 24:56 Well, yeah, it’s a huge, and as I mentioned in all a major religions, it is a big, or I can’t speak to all the different philosophies out there, but in many religions, it is important commitment to make. And I was thinking too, babe, about when we crossed over and we got married, even though we don’t seem to be traditional people, we did move in together. We bought our first house and we moved into our house together, this house for the first time two weeks after we got married. So it marked this juncture of coming together as a family, and EE was three. And so we literally just came together and it was really beautiful and solidifying. And the whole way that we got married, we got engaged in the room of the last supper, and we were the only people in the room. And it felt like this energy coming in, this powerful energy of that room, literally where the last supper was. And so for you and I, there’s so many different reasons that people get married and all reasons that feel good to people are valid for them. So
Jon: 26:12 I think it’s important to note this. We were pretty comfortable in our lives before we got married.
Kimberly: 26:20 We didn’t need each other, single
Jon: 26:21 People. I really enjoyed being a single person in those days. And I thought maybe I would never get married. And I thought maybe I would never have kids. And even when I met you and I met Emerson, I was like, I’m cool not having kids. I’m cool having kids. What are you? Oh,
Kimberly: 26:40 You mean beyond
Jon: 26:40 Him? Yeah, beyond him and having biological kids. But I was really happy in my life, and then I found someone that I met that I was almost instantly, I’m like, I’m done. I’m done. Yes, this life was, life was great. And that’s no longer the life that I choose.
Kimberly: 27:07 Amazing. And
Jon: 27:08 I think that it’s important for people to be, and I feel a little weird giving advice on this just because,
Kimberly: 27:19 Well, sharing our personal experience,
Jon: 27:21 But I believe strongly in it that I don’t know that I would’ve found you if I wasn’t comfortable in my life. You know what I mean? I was already starting a conscious path. And I don’t know that we would’ve seen each other. And I think it was important for me to be able to instantly, or not even instantly, but just be able to make that decision that it was like, no, I do not want that life anymore. I want this life. And yeah, I think that sometimes people reluctantly get married because they’ve been together. That’s how we started off this podcast. They’ve been together a certain amount of time because there’s expectations from their family because they want kids. And I get that. But I think it’s important to really, because the community expects you to, I think it’s important to really look at what you want in your life if that is going to be achieved by this union,
Kimberly: 28:27 Beautiful baby. And one of the things we say is we’re talking about commitment. Commitment to the marriage, commitment to each other. It’s also a commitment to growth because life is dynamic and we either grow and evolve or we start decaying. I’m saying humans in general. And so when you’re in a marriage, you and I were on this, we call it looking at different ways, but when we came together, our level, both of us, our level of spiritual growth has accelerated because it’s caused us to look at ourselves. And sometimes if you remain single unpartnered or in a more casual relationship, you don’t have to look at yourself so deeply. It’s easy to get away from stuff, or something comes up and you don’t like it, you can just bounce. But this commitment has this analogy of taking sandpaper, just smoothing out our rougher qualities in our character marriage enables that. It really promotes that because it’s a commitment to saying, Hey, we’re here to grow. We’re soulmates. Soulmates doesn’t just mean, Hey, let’s have dinner and hang out, which is cool too. But we’re here to really see each other and to get to that tap into our true self potential, deeper and deeper,
Jon: 29:45 And to be mirrors to each other and to know that you can be a less than perfect or sometimes despicable version of yourself and still be loved and still be held in that partnership
Kimberly: 30:01 And to be vulnerable and to be seen. And actually, because as you said earlier, it’s hard for us to believe all of us that we really are loved just for being us, which is something I whisper in our son’s ears all the time. You don’t have to earn my love right’s here. You are, love for you. And most of us aren’t grown up believing that we think we’re loved because
Jon: 30:26 Achievements,
Kimberly: 30:27 Whatever it is. And it’s interesting. I have a friend who grew up in Sweden and she lives here now, and her parents were never in a marriage. They were cohabitating, and they ended up splitting up. And she said that was common in her community in Sweden. I know parts of Europe, different parts of the world, wherever you’re listening to this in different countries and so on, I won’t get into it, but there’s a lot of stats about different countries, of course. But I said, so what’s your view on marriage now? And she said, for her, seeing how it was with her parents, she does really honor marriage and she really would want to be actually married versus in a partnership. But of course, if people are in, we both have friends that grew up in poorly divorced families and don’t favor marriage at all, or would never consider it. So it’s interesting, of course, in natural how much our childhood upbringing would affect how we see the institution of marriage.
Jon: 31:27 And there’s something that we were talking about earlier today. There’s things that we’re unconscious about that if we had a very traumatic or tumultuous, chaotic childhood on some level, we’re looking for that chaos, whether we know it or not, the idea of groundedness feels uncomfortable.
Kimberly: 31:51 Yeah. Well, we’ve grown so much together, babe. Now we are about to, or we did celebrate our legal marriage. We just crossed our four year wedding anniversary, which is exciting and amazing. And I think about all the things that we’ve done together in four years, the farm and Moses being born. But the growth is amazing.
Jon: 32:19 The growth is amazing. And we’ve been moving quickly on everything it seems. Not trying to, it just seems
Kimberly: 32:25 It’s happening.
Jon: 32:26 It seems to flow, it seems to unwind the way it’s supposed to,
Kimberly: 32:30 But it’s really amazing. I am so grateful for our marriage, baby, and for you because our love has held this space for this tremendous spiritual growth in my life. And so I’m very grateful.
Jon: 32:47 Well, I’m grateful for you, mama. I
Kimberly: 32:48 Love you. I love you so much.
I hope you enjoy today’s show as much as I always enjoy chatting with hubby and sharing hubby with you and the community, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on marriage as well. So please write into us. You can leave your comments and your questions, which of course will be sent over to me.
04:00 You can also send me your thoughts over on social, my handles at under Kimberly Snyder. Really invite a discussion here. I’d love to hear your ideas of course. And more than anything, I think this idea of commitment is a really powerful concept to think about. However, that shows up in your life in marriage or a commitment to your own personal growth, your development, your health, whatever it is. And you might want to consider today, what are the things that you really want to commit to in your life, what you want to really put your energy behind, because that’s how things really grow and thrive is with commitment, with focus, with our vital, precious attention. So we will be back here on Thursday for our next q and a show. As I mentioned at the top of the show, please be sure to check out our show notes over at mysolluna.com for other podcasts I think you would enjoy articles, recipes, plant-based recipes that are properly food combined, meditations and more. Sending you so much love. Look forward to seeing you back here in just a few days. Take great care of yourself and see you soon. Namaste.