The Science Of Upgrading Your Health and Relationships From The Power of Your Heart with Rollin McCraty [Episode 923]

This week’s topic: The Science Of Upgrading Your Health and Relationships From The Power of Your Heart. 

Hi everyone, welcome back to our Monday interview show. I could not be more thrilled to have a very special guest back here with us today, Dr. Roland McCready. He is the Director of Research at the HeartMath Institute. He is one of the most brilliant humans I have ever met and yet incredibly heart -centered. Dr. Roland and I were, I was so privileged to work with Dr. Roland on not only the writing of The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts, but also our Heart Aligned Meditation Study, which is featured in the book. Dr. Roland, your work has changed my life. Thank you so much. And I hope through this book and through this channel here and to our amazing community, we also are able to help change the lives of many. So thank you so much, Roland, for being here with us today.

About Rollin McCraty

Rollin McCraty is executive vice president and director of research of HeartMath Institute. McCraty is director of research and project coordinator of the Global Coherence Monitoring System. He has been with HeartMath since its creation in 1991. He is a psychophysiologist and a professor at Florida Atlantic University. McCraty’s research interests include the physiology of emotion, with a focus on the mechanisms by which emotions influence cognitive processes, behavior and health. He and his team regularly participate in studies with scientific, medical and educational institutions worldwide. McCraty has written extensively and been widely published in his areas of scientific interest. He holds numerous memberships, including with the American Autonomic Society, Pavlovian Society, National Association for Psychological Science, Association for Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback and Society for Scientific Exploration.

Guest Resources

• HeartMath Institute 
• Rollin McCraty Bio 

Episode Sponsors

HUNGRYROOT

Right now, Hungryroot is offering Feel Good Podcast listeners 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to Hungryroot.com/FEELGOOD, to get 40% off your first delivery and get your free veggies. Don’t forget to use our link, so they know we sent you.

USE LINK: Hungryroot.com/FEELGOOD

PIQUE

OFFER: Get up to 15% off plus a rechargeable frother and cup when you shop my link when you purchase exclusively at piquelife.com/kimberlys

USE LINK: piquelife.com/kimberlys

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
03:08 Heart Coherence and its Impact on Health
06:28 Emotions and Coherence
09:01 The Role of Emotions in Coherence
15:14 Physiological Effects of Coherence on the Brain
19:50 Changing Baselines and Transforming Attitudes
22:20 Becoming Self-Aware and In Tune with Our Emotions
24:15 The Heart’s Electromagnetic Field and Its Influence on Interactions
29:05 Coherence: Opening the Channel to Our Larger Self
35:36 Kindness, Compassion, and Gratitude: Natural Expressions of a Coherent Heart
39:09 The Journey of Coherence: Becoming More Resilient and Less Reactive

[RESOURCES / INFORMATION]

SOLLUNA PRODUCT LINKS

• Glowing Greens Powder™
• Feel Good SBO Probiotics
• Feel Good Detoxy
• Feel Good Digestive Enzymes
• Feel Good Starter Kit
• Feel Good Skincare

KIMBERLY’S BOOKS

• The Hidden Power of the Five Heats 
• Chilla Gorilla & Lanky Lemur Journey to the Heart
• The Beauty Detox Solution
• Beauty Detox Foods
• Beauty Detox Power
• Radical Beauty
• Recipes For Your Perfectly Imperfect Life
• You Are More Than You Think You Are 

OTHER PODCASTS YOU MAY ENJOY!

• How to Believe in Your Self Worth with Jamie Kern Lima [Episode 907]
• How to Raise Your Standards In Your Love Life with Matthew Hussey [Episode 883]
• How to Eat to Beat Your Diet with New York Times best selling author Dr. William Li [Epsiode 913]
• The issues with consuming vegetable and seed oils with Dr. Catherine Shanahan [Episode #899]
• How the Power Foods Diet helps with Weight Loss with Dr. Neal Barnard [Episode #877]
• How Not to Age with New York Times best-selling author Dr. Michael Greger [Episode #873]
• How to eat to reduce anxiety with Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo [Episode #867]
• How to Optimize Your Metabolic Health with Dr. Casey Means [Episode 889]

 

Powered and Distributed by: PodcastOne

Transcript:

Kimberly Snyder (00:00.926)
Hi everyone, welcome back to our Monday interview show. I could not be more thrilled to have a very special guest back here with us today, Dr. Roland McCready. He is the Director of Research at the HeartMath Institute. He is one of the most brilliant humans I have ever met and yet incredibly heart -centered. Dr. Roland and I were, I was so privileged to work with Dr. Roland on not only the writing of The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts, but also our Heart Aligned Meditation Study, which is featured in the book. Dr. Roland, your work has changed my life. Thank you so much. And I hope through this book and through this channel here and to our amazing community, we also are able to help change the lives of many. So thank you so much, Roland, for being here with us today.

Rollin (00:50.766)
Well, it’s always a pleasure to hang out with you, Kimberly. And I share the same vision and hope that you do. I hope that your book reaches as many people as possible and helps lead people to their own inner wisdom of their heart and helps them navigate this crazy world that we’re currently living in with more ease, more grace, stress -free lives.

Kimberly Snyder (01:12.354)
So I’ve been getting these questions on the podcast, Roland, before we even dive in, people are asking me, well, how did you even come into this hard work? Why are you focusing on this now? And I reflect back when I was writing my last book, which was published in 2022, and I was researching, was called, You Are More Than You Think You Are. I came across a piece of research from you, Roland, and it was around…

the heart brain and some of the things that I’m writing about now. But I came across, I remember I’m getting goosebumps because here we are now, but it was this piece of research that I said, what? Why doesn’t everybody know about this? Why don’t people know that the heart is another brain? How do we not know that the heart is sending more messages to the brain? The implications of this for health and stress and we’re going about it from such a mental pathway. So that Dr. Roland took me on this pathway, taking the deep dive.

eventually meeting with you and Doc and Dr. Deborah and Martin up at HeartMath. I write the whole story in the intro, taking a deep dive into the holy science by Swami Sri Yukteswar and seeing this real intersection in ancient culture and spiritual traditions and modern science coming into the heart. But it’s just amazing how life unfolds, Dr. Roland, to where we are today, about to publish this book. You and I have gotten to do a research study together. We’ve gotten to hang out, person. This is amazing.

Rollin (02:39.026)
So where do you wanna go? What do you wanna talk?

Kimberly Snyder (02:39.144)
So, yeah, exactly. So I’m going to read you. Let’s, I want to, I want to take us into coming from you, who’s done so much amazing science and research. could go on and on about the incredible aspects of this, but I’d love for people to hear from you a little bit more about heart coherence and how this really, from our hearts, the center of our being physically, energetically, how this really elevates number one, our health, but also number two, these feelings of lightness and peace.

that we all want. So I’m going to read you one paragraph inspired by your work, Dr. Rowland, from page 27, and we can go from there. Coherence is the synchronization or the syncing up of systems within your body. You become a finely tuned machine where everything is working in its best. Coherence has to start with your heart since it’s the strongest biological oscillator or rhythm setter in the body. When you activate your heart’s power, it creates more aligned communication.

between your heart, brain, and nervous system, and then facilitates better communication with the rest of the body. When your heart and brain are in sync, with your heart and brain in sync, your overall health and bodily efficiency improve significantly. So the heart, we’re living in a world now, Dr. Roland, where people are so focused on fitness routines and better sleep and taking more supplements, and all of this can be important, but talk to us about

why the central point of this whole coherence, the syncing up starts right here in the heart.

Rollin (04:09.768)
you

Rollin (04:14.428)
Okay. And we, let’s talk about that same question on two different levels, if we may. Let’s start with physiologically, the body. What’s going on inside our body? I think most people probably just have an intuitive sense, Kimberly, that it’s a good thing to be in sync. You know, mean, that doesn’t just kind of make sense. I mean, get in sync. We hear all the time, right? Well, that’s real. And it’s something measurable.

Kimberly Snyder (04:15.948)
you

Kimberly Snyder (04:20.906)
Yes, please.

Kimberly Snyder (04:33.61)
Yes, yes, feels good.

Rollin (04:45.24)
So we use this term coherence that you read and coherence just really is a way of measuring how harmoniously are the different systems in our body working together or not. Working together is good, right? Harmonious interaction, the body’s using a lot less energy to get a lot more done.

Kimberly Snyder (05:04.809)
Right.

Rollin (05:05.414)
So when we’re incoherent physiologically, the different rhythms in our brain, body, nervous system, so on, we’re wasting a lot of unnecessary energy. So I know a lot of people I hear from, Kimberly, talk about, at the end of the day, I just don’t have the energy that I would like to have to do the things I enjoy. Right. Or, you know, whatever that might go on, just a lot of exhaustion, a lot of fatigue.

Kimberly Snyder (05:24.694)
Right.

Rollin (05:32.018)
That’s just one level. mean, over time, that is a huge impact on our health. mean, because especially when like you, you’re young, right? I’m an old fart now, But, you know, I got it. How many times when you get a little bit older, do you say, I wish I had only known right back then. So I’m hoping that your book and your messages can be that. You know, you know what I’m trying to say here, because it’s the accumulation.

Kimberly Snyder (05:43.072)
BZH!

Kimberly Snyder (05:50.625)
Great.

Kimberly Snyder (05:56.652)
Well you know what Dr. Rowland? Yes.

Rollin (06:01.778)
that zaps our life force and leads to health challenges. Now, because we tend like I know when I was your age, you know, I’m resilient, I’m invincible, I’m bulletproof, more or less, you know, was kind of an unconscious attitude. You know, I mean, I did a lot of crazy things that I probably still would. But that’s another another story. Anyway, what am I trying to say here? OK, so this is where we have to talk about emotions.

Kimberly Snyder (06:28.67)
Exactly. Thank you, Dr. Roland. as I’m listening to you, a lot of people, including myself, come into the wellness path through physical things, right? I’m going to eat better. I’m going to exercise more. But your work is way more. Yes.

Rollin (06:37.106)
Yeah, right. Yeah, and that’s, yeah, and that’s all good. Nothing wrong with that, right? But here’s the thing. It’s our emotions that run the show when we’re talking about the activity and the coherence and the alignment with whether in sync or not. And let’s bring in stress. I know that’s not, you know, word that’s as popular these days, but it’s, is it?

Kimberly Snyder (06:49.334)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (07:00.583)
it is Dr. Rowland. Everyone’s talking about stress.

Rollin (07:03.11)
Okay, so what but stress? Here’s the thing we have to unpack what stress is. It’s always an emotion. It’s just a word is kind of safe, you know, I’m stressed out. But what are we really saying? You’re not doing what I want you to and I feel frustrated. Yeah, it will exactly. I’m well, let’s see. It’s you know, like it used to be here just interesting kind of thing. It surveys still to this day, the number one source of stress.

Kimberly Snyder (07:10.432)
Right?

Right?

Kimberly Snyder (07:20.02)
Yeah, I don’t like this traffic.

Rollin (07:33.26)
Typically, it’s time pressure, which is literally defined as the feeling that I don’t have enough time to get everything done or the feeling everything’s taking too long. So I was clicking on that to show that that’s an emotion. Right. Right. But if we look under the hood of stress, it’s frustration, it’s impatience, it’s anxiety, it’s feeling overwhelmed, feeling, emotion, emotion, emotion.

Kimberly Snyder (07:35.123)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (07:44.501)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (07:48.982)
Right, right.

Right.

Rollin (08:02.834)
Now, the reason that’s so important is that, as I said earlier, emotion drives, runs the show. It’s what is at the high level of our, I’ll say our anatomy, if I can say it that way, that leads to changes in the hormonal flow in our body, in the activity in our brain, in our nervous system. It’s what runs the show. Now, a lot of people will say, no, it’s thoughts. Well, no, it’s not. And I can so easily prove that here in the lab.

Kimberly Snyder (08:13.013)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (08:30.476)
Will the emotions impact your thoughts?

Rollin (08:32.628)
Well, yes, but well, I don’t want to get too down this rabbit hole because we’ll miss the main point here. But there are schools of thought out there that are outdated, in my opinion, that it’s called the ABC model in some circles that we perceive something, we have thoughts about it, then emotion follows that. Well, that’s true, but it’s not far from the whole story. Most of our navigating the daily life is the other way around.

Kimberly Snyder (08:50.711)
right.

Kimberly Snyder (09:01.611)
Yes.

Rollin (09:02.012)
Emotions happen faster than thought and then bias our thoughts. So it’s a two -way dialogue and interaction. Yes, thoughts can evoke emotions, but far more often it’s emotions that happen first and then our thoughts are trying to justify what we already felt.

Kimberly Snyder (09:17.312)
And that’s because the amygdala is part of our brain, which are bringing in the past into the present, these memories, these wounds.

Rollin (09:23.282)
Well, yeah, that’s a whole other process, probably too deep to go into today. But just if people can just understand that. So what what I’m saying here is if we can learn to become, first of all, aware of our emotions and our emotional diet. Right, so I’d be willing and I know if we had people would be shocked at the end of the day if they could have a computer printout.

Kimberly Snyder (09:28.98)
Yes.

Rollin (09:47.636)
of all the emotions that went on and how many of those emotions were automatically ingrained habit patterns that are depleting our life force, depleting our energy. So if we could, if we put 10 % energy into understanding this and being aware of those and starting to take control of our emotional diet, 10 % of what we put into reading labels on bottles and labels in the grocery store, the payoff would be hundreds of times greater than what you get from

you know, reading labels. again, I’m not saying that’s bad or wrong. That’s great. People should do that. But but not at the expense of becoming aware of and taking charge of our emotional diet. And people can do that.

Kimberly Snyder (10:22.518)
what?

Kimberly Snyder (10:29.634)
Well, thank you for saying it that way, Dr. Roland, because I’ve been working on my physical, you know, food, nutrition diet for years. And when I started doing this work, I couldn’t believe, I couldn’t believe how much more energy I had. And especially exactly what you were saying at the end of the day. I would almost quantify it. And, you know, it’s hard to quantify these specific numbers without measurables, but it was almost like…

60 to 70 % more at the end of the day, instead of just sort of laying there like frazzled. I’m just like, okay, like let’s go outside, let’s look at the stars. Like all these amazing things are happening because to your point, all these ups and downs, there are all these stressors. My inability in the past to be more resilient and to be more centered was really taking a toll even though I had a healthy diet and I was walking and exercising.

So it’s just, I’ve experienced it myself, Dr. Rohl, and that’s why I want everyone to know about this. It changes your life.

Rollin (11:25.342)
Yeah. Well, here’s a kind of a classic and you probably can’t relate to this, Kimberly, but maybe a lot of listeners can. You’ve probably never gotten really angry about something. Right. Well, you just have one of those.

Kimberly Snyder (11:34.818)
Yeah, right. Where’s my husband? Let’s bring him in.

Rollin (11:41.14)
You know where we have just a good old blowout man, it’s been it feels good. I’m pissed off and I’m gonna let everybody know it right?

Kimberly Snyder (11:48.234)
You left the socks on the floor again!

Rollin (11:51.06)
Yeah, well, how do you feel a few minutes after that, say 30 minutes, exhausted? So there’s a good example that everyone can relate to of how emotions use energy. So it’s and I don’t use the word positive and negative emotions in my writings, as you know, I use the word depleting or draining emotions. Or renewing and regenerative emotions to.

Kimberly Snyder (11:54.27)
Exhausted. Yeah.

Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (12:03.231)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (12:15.606)
Yes.

Rollin (12:18.258)
get down to brass tacks reality of how they’re affecting our physiology in our body.

Kimberly Snyder (12:24.631)
Well, so first of all, Roland, it makes sense and it feels like for everyone listening who says, well, I’ve been trying to work on my emotions for years. I’ve been seeing a talk therapist. I’ve been, you know, reading this self -help book or this motivational program or whatever it was. Let’s move a little bit into the how. When you and I

Rollin (12:25.426)
Does that make sense? Cause I’m.

Rollin (12:42.792)
Well, I’m so glad you said that because those I mean, how we’ve heard for years, right. And all self -help gurus and philosophers and talk about the importance and the science is really backing that up now of, you know, that it’s better to be, you know, have more regenerative emotions and our emotional diet throughout the day, the week, the year. Right. Well, how do you do that? That’s always the missing thing. And that’s where I’m sure you’ve covered it in your book.

Kimberly Snyder (12:48.958)
Yes.

Rollin (13:11.356)
Right? But that’s where the heart plays a role. As you already said, the heart sends far more information to the brain than the other way around. Well, way to think of the brain in this context is that it’s interpreting the signals from the heart, the body, but especially the heart. And then.

Kimberly Snyder (13:17.355)
Yes.

Rollin (13:28.146)
going throughout what’s called all the pattern matching process. We won’t go into that detail here, but then the top part of our brain, our cognitive parts are observing, monitoring those rhythms and those match or mismatches in the amygdala, as you talked about, and labeling it. So when you change the, if you change the input to the brain from the heart, that changes, that has a huge impact on affecting our emotional experience, how we actually feel. I mean, after all.

Kimberly Snyder (13:42.988)
Mmm.

Rollin (13:58.034)
I know you and John when I hope John didn’t when he asked you to marry him or in your dating say, I love you with all my brain. Right. Yeah, and who would do that? Right. I mean, don’t we always say I love you with all my heart?

Kimberly Snyder (14:09.609)
No.

Kimberly Snyder (14:16.266)
Yes. Well, and it, but then there’s this part of society, Dr. Rowland, as you know, which has sort of relegated the heart to the sentimental, to the romanticized. Yeah. This, this practical power that you’re showing.

Rollin (14:23.442)
Well, right, but that’s incorrect. Yeah, because we’re still talking physiologically, this is part two we want to get to here, but physiologically, the heart is the primary source of rhythmic activity in the body and the rhythms and patterns it’s sending to the brain go to all major brain centers and have profound effects on our ability to think clearly, our ability to make good decisions, how we feel.

Kimberly Snyder (14:33.833)
Yes.

Rollin (14:50.578)
Right, so we learn techniques like I’m sure you’re talking about in the book. In fact, I know you are. read a chapter way back when that allow us, know, the heart math techniques that allow us to shift the rhythm of the heart into a coherent rhythm, which is sending a different signal to the brain that enhances our capacity to think clearly. It gets us in sync. So you can just think of the heart as the master conductor in the whole physiological systems.

So when it’s coherent and has a coherent heart rhythm, that pulls the other systems into synchronization. It’s really an optimal state. We’re talking about the physiology of optimal function. That’s really what we’re talking about.

Kimberly Snyder (15:20.972)
Mm, mm.

Kimberly Snyder (15:28.034)
Well, and it blew my mind and my heart, Dr. Roland, is when we did this heart aligned meditation study together, which incorporated the heart math research, it incorporated the heart math, quick coherence technique and did, you know, built on it with some of the Yogananda’s techniques and made this meditation. And we brought in these 30 people and it was incredible to see in four weeks, there was a 29 % increase in being able to get into that.

coherent state and a 10 % increase in resting baseline levels. this practice that the tract we were sending them, Dr. Rowland was less than eight minutes. So here’s the other thing that blows my mind. We’re talking about rewiring, shifting your life, shifting your health. And sometimes we’re taught in society, it’s such hard work when you’re going about it from the brain, the mental pathway, but there’s this power. And I’ve experienced it. I saw in our study, I’ve seen it in your work, that it’s not gonna take always the same amount of time you think it’s gonna take. You’ve been talking in

talk therapy for 30 years, trying to get past some of these emotions, there’s something so different about the heart intelligence that blasts through patterns.

Rollin (16:35.518)
Yeah, exactly. Because you’re shifting. Well, that’s a rabbit hole. Maybe sometime on another show we can go down and get into the physiology.

Kimberly Snyder (16:44.282)
Maybe just a little bit, Dr. Rowland, you could explain why we’re breaking patterns in this nonlinear way though, from the heart coherence. Sorry, no, it’s like each one’s a huge rabbit hole.

Rollin (16:50.194)
Yeah, well, okay, all right. So let me try and see if I can say it. To really unpack that, I would have to connect all the dots and all the science behind it, but that I don’t think would serve everybody. So there’s a part of the brain called the amygdala, there’s one on each side. And here’s what the amygdala do functionally, is they determine what is familiar or not familiar.

And there are different parts of the amygdala doing that from the body’s internal sensory systems. It’s called interception. Big word. But it’s also doing that from all the sensory systems of the external world. What we see, hear, smell, touch, et cetera. Familiar or not familiar? Well, OK, depends on the past. OK, so to determine familiar or not familiar, you have to have an internal reference.

Kimberly Snyder (17:29.952)
Mm.

Kimberly Snyder (17:33.196)
Threat or not threat.

Rollin (17:43.324)
And that’s the histories, the past. That forms what’s called a familiar baseline reference. That the brain is, for all the internal and external, always comparing current inputs to the baseline. And we form many baselines and familiar patterns as we mature and go through life. Familiar, not familiar.

Kimberly Snyder (17:44.874)
Right.

Rollin (18:01.914)
So if you have, let me give you an example. One of my grandmothers, I tell the story a lot because that’s such a good way of expressing it. When I was a little kid, know, the grandkids would come over and she drove us absolutely crazy with her worry and anxiety. You know, worried about everything. Don’t climb the tree, you’ll fall and break your arm and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Well, what I come to understand in her past life experience.

growing up through the depression and, you know, horror and all this, anxiety and worry had become her baseline, her familiar. So the key understanding here, Kimberly, is the brain wants a match to the now, the current, and the familiar. That’s where we feel comfortable.

Kimberly Snyder (18:31.915)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (18:38.698)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (18:43.702)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (18:49.822)
even if it’s an unhealthy perspective. Right.

Rollin (18:51.482)
Even if it totally, and that’s where most of the world is today. Right, because our baselines have been shifted to what technically I’d call a maladapted pattern. Right. So the brains, you know, and that’s why we there’s so much that that this explains why we don’t like change, why we keep repeating the same often negative patterns and habits. You know, whether it’s the partners we choose or, I mean, on and on it goes.

Kimberly Snyder (19:00.865)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (19:14.412)
Great.

Rollin (19:21.048)
So that’s, we have to interrupt those old unhealthy baseline patterns. Now here’s the key. One of my mentors, very, very famous man, Carl Priebroom, who’s considered by many the, actually the father of modern cognitive neuroscience, actually proved, Kimberly, proved, right, that you cannot think yourself into a new baseline. You have to change the inputs from the body, especially the heart, because that’s what the rhythms of the niggles always seem.

Kimberly Snyder (19:42.082)
Hmm.

Rollin (19:50.322)
You have to shift those and that’s why coherence is so powerful. If we just do heart focused breathing and you can just while you’re driving while you’re cleaning house or whatever.

Kimberly Snyder (19:56.716)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (20:01.12)
focusing on putting your attention on your heart.

Rollin (20:04.126)
Yeah, yeah, and breathing through the area of the heart, a little slower and deeper, and finding that internal rhythm that’s comfortable. So if we do that long enough, we’re changing that neural signals going to the brain and to the amygdala. When we do that often enough, over a few weeks, it becomes the new baseline, the new normal. Right? But the key is you have to change the input to the brain to do that. You cannot think yourself into it, at least not directly. So that’s why these simple techniques are so powerful in transforming people’s lives.

Kimberly Snyder (20:06.412)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (20:20.78)
Wow.

Rollin (20:33.556)
because we’re changing the baseline. And once we do that, then that becomes the new automatic where the stressors, or the stress, emotional stressors, impatience, right? That sounds like a simple word, but it’s zaps so much of people’s energy, right? Those inner feelings, unconscious feelings of fear and anxiety and negative projections, all of that starts to get transformed. Once you set a new baseline, they don’t feel comfortable anymore.

Kimberly Snyder (20:51.2)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (21:03.682)
So Dr. Rowland, so when I’ve been doing our heart aligned meditation in the morning, and this is what we’ve heard back, is not even just a specific event like the traffic, I feel more resilient and calm, non -specifically through the day. So not just, Numigdil is recognizing this one stressor, but it’s true.

Rollin (21:04.35)
Is that making sense?

Rollin (21:23.454)
Well, that’s right. It’s because that’s because your baseline has been changed. Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (21:26.582)
Baseline overall, that means as you go through the day, whatever’s coming into your email or whatever person says something, you’re naturally more resilient.

Rollin (21:31.752)
Yeah. Well, here’s another way to think of this is that I’ll use a metaphor here that once we have a baseline and that’s really kind of what then creates a lot of our attitudes. So the attitudes is where we tend to hang out a lot in our in our thoughts, emotions and behaviors. Well, that’s like an attitude, like we hear a cynical, right, an attitude of cynicism, a cynical person, right?

Kimberly Snyder (21:45.909)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (22:00.034)
I’m just laughing because my eight year old heard that word and he’s like, he’s like, I don’t like your attitude. He says it’s a funny word, but it’s a pattern. It’s a real pattern.

Rollin (22:05.0)
Yeah, right. It’s a real pattern to think of it like almost an unconscious background music that’s constantly playing in your consciousness.

Kimberly Snyder (22:20.385)
Right.

Rollin (22:22.716)
Right? So that’s coloring, biasing all of our perceptions, our thoughts, our emotions and all this. And so that’s really what I’m talking about to start becoming more self -aware of. And it takes, you have to be have the self -vulnerability kind of look under the radar, you know, and the self -honesty to say, OK, well, this is what this is. The music is really playing in here.

Right. Once you do that, that’s half the battle because then you can you you can make a choice to start turning that around and changing that that background music, you know, change the station. Does that make sense?

Kimberly Snyder (23:01.59)
Well, what I’ve experienced to illustrate it in a personal example is as I’ve done this work now, which has been a few years, I’ve noticed that certain people who shall remain unnamed, who used to bother me or they say the things, you know how there’s people that kind of like poke at you, they just…

Rollin (23:17.684)
Like a button on your head, it’s kind of fun to push it, you know? Watch them, watch them, watch them react.

Kimberly Snyder (23:24.268)
But I don’t feel those same reactions. My attitude towards literally other people, your relatives or people that are just gonna be in your lives. There’s just this sense of deeper neutrality. Like, you know, the zooming out feeling which the heart gives me, which is just sort of saying, well, that’s how, you know, they communicate or not taking it so personally. It’s been transformative, Dr. Roland.

Rollin (23:47.934)
Yeah, well, and that’s not you’ve taken your power back. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, we can’t control others, but we can can control and regulate how we react like being neutral. It doesn’t mean you have to condone or agree with people’s actions or behaviors, right? But we don’t have to drain our energy in response to them.

Kimberly Snyder (23:50.986)
Yes, you go back to the hidden power, this power of staying peaceful around anyone, resilient.

Kimberly Snyder (24:15.426)
Well, another thing too, Dr. Roland, and this was one of the pieces of your research that’s published in the book for anyone watching this or if you’re listening to this, this is on page 45 in the Dark Heart incoherence chapter. This incredible figure, this graphic, which is showing the heart field emanating. So many people, Dr. Roland, want to change their lives, right? They may want to attract that partner or better work situation or something out here.

But one of the things that I’ve really come to understand, especially through your research, is energy doesn’t lie. So besides how we feel the stress inside, which we think is only what we are sensing, other people are sensing this field. Can you talk a little bit about how this field is going beyond this barrier we think is the skin and we don’t stop here?

Rollin (24:54.664)
Yeah.

Rollin (24:59.422)
Sure.

Yeah, I’ll be happy to. And then I want to go to part two of what I brought up earlier. Yeah, so when, you know, make it simple. When we stick electrodes on the body to measure the electrocardiogram, we’re putting little electrodes across the chest, right? It’s called the electrocardiogram for a reason. We’re measuring electricity, literally, flow of current.

Kimberly Snyder (25:18.09)
Yes.

Rollin (25:25.204)
So what whenever this is physics 101, I mean, this would be probably to get taught this in grade school now that whenever you have a flow of electrical current, you create a mag, what’s called a magnetic field. Now, the thing about a magnetic field is that they go through things twice. Cell phones work indoors. Right. It’s the magnetic component that’s going through the windows and the walls. And you can even be in an elevator in your cell phone work. Right. So if it wasn’t for the magnetic field, that that wouldn’t be possible.

So the electrodes don’t see that field. They just measure the current flow. So there’s another device that we need to measure that field, and it’s called a magnetometer. And it’s the same kind of field we all live in, the Earth’s magnetic field. We all live in these fields. So the reason I know this is I can stick a probe out here, this magnetometer, and measure it from anybody. If we have a beating heart, we have a magnetic field. Now, what our research added to this, this was well known before I came along.

Kimberly Snyder (26:03.307)
Yes.

Rollin (26:24.538)
In fact, this goes back to being measured in late 1800s, right? The external magnetic field to the body. But what we were able to show using, I used to be a communication engineer for Motorola, you by the way. So using the same techniques that we used back in the old days, if I can say it that way, to decode or look at the information being carried by the field, whether that’s your cell phone or any radio transmitter.

applied that to the field of the heart. And lo and behold, we were able to show that the field is carrying information about our emotions. I’m sure it’s a whole lot more information, but for sure about our emotions. Just like our cell phone’s using the field to carry our voice or our text message or the picture. Right? We’re encoding that in that field.

Kimberly Snyder (26:58.742)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (27:10.252)
So specifically our emotions. And again, I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole thoughts, but emotional energy.

Rollin (27:16.808)
for sure emotions that we’ve published in peer review journals and proven this. So part so we’re radiating. In other words, what we feel, whether we’re aware of it or not, or whether we put on the plastic smile, you know, even if we might be upset, right. The face, right. Those emotions don’t stop at the skin. We are literally broadcasting them. We’re like radio transmitters. OK, so part two. Well, guess what? We’re also.

Kimberly Snyder (27:31.094)
The fake, yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (27:39.948)
amazing.

Rollin (27:46.952)
exquisitely tuned receivers of these other biologically generated fields. Nature built us that way to not only radiate, but to be tuned to the frequency and amplitude of the field generated by other people or other living systems. So we were able to show this that when people, well, that there’s an, I’m going to use the word energetic, an energetic communication through the field interactions. It’s always going on between people.

Kimberly Snyder (28:01.675)
Yes.

Rollin (28:16.244)
when they’re in groups or with husbands and wives or friends or work teams, whatever. That is unseen. Now, for a lot of people, that’s unconscious, but it’s still having measurable effects and affecting our perception. Right? So let’s…

And it’s one of the big factors in miscommunication because our nervous system is receiving and detecting these fields and going, they’re radiating, I don’t know, something that isn’t matching what they’re saying. And that creates a mismatch, right?

Kimberly Snyder (28:38.155)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (28:50.218)
Right. Isn’t it true, Dr. Rowland, though, for people that feel really sensitive to people’s energies or, again, bothered? As you increase your coherence, you may register people being in a bad mood, but you don’t have to be as affected.

Rollin (29:05.256)
That’s exactly right. So when we’re coherent, we’re more stable. We’re not going to be as affected by other people’s vibrations. I’m going to use vibrations because that’s literally what we’re talking about now. But we’re also more sensitive and aware of the information in the field simultaneously. I call that energetic sensitivity. It’s one of the three types of intuition. Absolutely. Well, actually,

Kimberly Snyder (29:11.425)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (29:21.472)
We’re more intuitive.

Kimberly Snyder (29:30.186)
What are the other types of intuition?

Rollin (29:33.968)
Implicit knowledge is one and then the other I call non -local. And that’s our intuitions about things that are maybe in the future or far away. You can’t explain through these field interactions. Right. And I know you know exactly what I’m talking about here. And it really really kind of ties in. So the non -local ties into the second part of the heart. And because I what.

Kimberly Snyder (29:47.5)
Got it.

Kimberly Snyder (29:51.52)
Yes.

Rollin (30:01.478)
You Kimberly, you probably know this, but one of the things we’ve heard over the years and still to this day from people who start practicing the coherence techniques, getting the heart and brain in sync is that their intuitions feels like it’s on steroids. Right. I mean, it’s like it’s a radical change for people. It’s not so subtle in a lot of people, not everybody. It depends on how sincere they are. And then the second thing they usually say, Kimberly, is unsynchronicities have become a way of life. And I know that’s true for me.

Kimberly Snyder (30:16.395)
Absolutely.

Kimberly Snyder (30:30.762)
It’s true for me, Dr. Rowland. And also it just doesn’t feel like, you know, we talk about these different fields of reality. It doesn’t feel like you have to push so hard. trying to make things happen. You’re drawing things in, people are showing up. It’s just this flow. Yes.

Rollin (30:40.04)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. It’s a flow, right? Because we’re in that coherent, in sync with not only, well, we’re actually in sync with our own, what I call it, larger self. Now, a lot of people, you know, would call it, you know, your higher self or I’m in touch with my soul or my spirit. But that’s really what’s going on. So what I’m suggesting here, Kimberly, is that we are multidimensional beings.

Kimberly Snyder (30:55.232)
Yes.

Rollin (31:10.266)
And that we really do have, well, I’ll say it this way, we have two hearts. The physical heart, which is the first part of our discussion. And then the energetic heart, which has also been called the spiritual heart in a lot of philosophical and religious traditions for thousands of years. Well, I’m just suggesting that’s real. The energetic heart and if the energetic heart, it’s also it’s in touch with all the DNA. It’s like a radio transmitter from the DNA. It’s where the real blueprint for who we really are exists.

Kimberly Snyder (31:21.504)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (31:33.781)
Mmm.

Rollin (31:39.856)
It’s that bridge between our humanness, you know, our physical bodies and our larger self. So this is the big game of coherence. mean, yes, there’s all the health and performance benefits, you know, be a better golfer, tennis player, be able to help you live longer. That’s all true. But this is the big this is the big game. This is where we start to when we.

Kimberly Snyder (31:47.788)
Mm.

Kimberly Snyder (31:57.024)
Yeah, focus. But this is it. This is the good stuff.

Rollin (32:05.848)
if the energetic heart is that bridge to our larger self, our soul spirit, whatever you want to call it, coherence opens that channel. intuition in this context is the flow of information. It’s part of our own undivided homeless, part of our us, right? It’s just a higher dimensional part of ourself.

that allows that flow of information to come down into the heart, mind, brain system. So now we’re starting to make our choices that are in alignment with who we really are and our real purpose and what we’re meant to do here on Earth, at least this lifetime. Does that make sense? mean, that’s it.

Kimberly Snyder (32:42.902)
And then we could say, and then we could say Dr. Roland that like incoherence, this sort of friction would create that irritation with others, this unkindness. And so do you believe as we open this channel to who we really are, kindness and care, compassion is the natural part of who we are.

Rollin (32:57.948)
What is the natural expert kindness, compassion, gratitude? Yeah, yeah. So I talk about the fact I’m developing a new course right now. I’ll be teaching to the shift network later this year. And I in the clip for class one, I’m going into what I call the spectrum of love. So if you think of love like an octave, like you could think of it as a musical octave that has different frequencies within that octave.

Kimberly Snyder (33:14.475)
Mmm.

Rollin (33:24.658)
Compassion is high up on vibratory within the spectrum of love. Gratitude, appreciation, kindness, respect, higher dignity, these are all frequencies within that love spectrum. And they exist in our homeless at the higher dimension. But when we’re out of sync with our larger self, right?

Kimberly Snyder (33:39.969)
Wow.

Rollin (33:46.438)
then we are kind of just left to feel from the mind and you know, a lot of people would call 3D consciousness, right? So that’s where we, so much of our emotional experience is anxiety and frustration and judgment and separation and blame. mean, blame is so, you know, that’s really funny when you, well, not funny, it’s not funny at all because it’s one of the big factors that zaps our life force and our energy.

Kimberly Snyder (34:04.716)
Harrison.

Kimberly Snyder (34:14.05)
blame.

Rollin (34:16.136)
but it’s so normal we don’t even perceive it. If you think about it, and I just went through another round of this myself, getting a little bit deeper. Blame the weather, right? It’s still blame, it’s putting in our reactions to it.

Kimberly Snyder (34:19.66)
Wow.

Kimberly Snyder (34:32.99)
It’s amazing Dr. Roland because it’s going to the same place, right? And it’s like some people show up on a yoga mat and some people are looking for stillness or they’re looking to connect. Some people want good abs, but as they show up on the mat, they’re getting these different benefits and you’re like, whoa, I wasn’t expecting this. I was trying to go in for better performance, but I’m starting to feel so peaceful and light. And it’s just like this onion centered in the heart.

Rollin (35:00.19)
Well, right, as we connect with our larger self. Right. So actually a little trick that a lot of people that inner inner stillness, right, inner peace. Well, actually, that’s something when you’re doing heart focused, heart focused breathing, it’s kind of a next step. I like with quick coherence that we used in your study, you can, you know, self activate feelings of appreciation or care or kindness, but you can actually also breathe inner stillness.

Kimberly Snyder (35:15.809)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (35:21.089)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (35:25.142)
Mmm.

Rollin (35:26.172)
So, I mean, a great practice I would recommend is breathing, when you’re doing heart -focused breathing, breathe in feeling of inner stillness or inner peace, and then breathe out love.

Kimberly Snyder (35:33.004)
Beautiful.

Well, you know, our society, Dr. Roland, is so linear. Like we got to work harder, we got to compete. And what you’re suggesting and what the research shows is when we are in kindness and the heart starts to awake it and it’s broadcasting out, we become more magnetic in that sense where people want to listen to us, where they want to help us. And so it actually is practical. It actually works better to be kind and to be loving.

Rollin (35:55.336)
Yeah, exactly.

Rollin (36:01.384)
Well, absolutely. I mean, it’s certainly good for our own health and wellness, but it’s actually you’re absolutely right. It’s putting that field out that others are even if it’s unconsciously sensing. So if you’re if you’re already in a coherent field, others tend to trust you more. Right, they tend to kind of like you more. mean, we all know this, Kimberly. I mean, for God’s sakes, we have scenes in our language. You know, the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife in that room, right?

Kimberly Snyder (36:05.494)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (36:17.11)
Right.

Kimberly Snyder (36:29.228)
Well, let me ask you something, Dr. Roland, what if someone’s naturally loving and kind? Are they naturally coherent? Or can there be other parts of their life where they’re stressed out about

Rollin (36:37.932)
Well, sure I can. mean, that’s going to be true. We all have our own individual, I’ll say, blueprints for life and things that we have to work on to grow in the evolution of our own consciousness. Right.

Kimberly Snyder (36:44.289)
Wait.

Kimberly Snyder (36:51.202)
So this journey, these practices, the quick coherence, which is part of the heart align meditation and these other practices, what I’ve noticed is, they keep growing and growing, but for someone listening to this who’s just starting out, you can just spend a few minutes in there and it really does work. There’s a consistency, but I’m not talking about like hours a day, like some of these other practices. It’s just like this baseline grows even just from a few minutes.

Rollin (37:18.302)
Well, you’ve got to breathe anyway, right? So why not be a little more conscious about it and do hard focused breathing? said it’s something you can do while you’re driving. You can do it while you’re in a meeting and do it right now. We’re on this Zoom call. Nobody needs to know you’re even you’re doing it.

Kimberly Snyder (37:19.936)
Right?

Kimberly Snyder (37:35.351)
And Dr. Rowland, being on the journey for this many years, it just keeps unfolding. There isn’t like a ceiling, like I’m coherent here. I mean, there’s this unfolding of this energetic, spiritual, incredible heart. doesn’t stop.

Rollin (37:44.704)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, it’s used the onion skinning analogy, but I’d say we another way of saying that as we spiral up to the next notch in the evolution of our own consciousness while we’re here on Earth and life becomes a lot more adventuresome, a lot more fun and a lot more peaceful. Right.

You know, I would say if you’re I can say this from my own personal experience, but a lot of my my colleagues and friends that as we connect with our larger self and we restart getting more in sync with it, it’s starting to be the master of, you know, our decisions and how we run our life. I would say one of the things that has been huge for me. Is true, true understanding.

and self -confidence that I really know that I can handle whatever comes my way. Right? So that pretty much eliminates, you know, fear, anxiety, negative projections of the future. I mean, it’s going to happen anyway. It’s going to be more tends to be more flow. Life has a better flow when we’re more coherent and aligned. But, you know, we still have our challenges. It doesn’t mean that, you know, the birds are going to sing and the flowers grow and then we never have stressors in life.

Kimberly Snyder (38:37.644)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (39:01.174)
Yes.

Rollin (39:01.404)
as we’d have a day life. But we certainly can meet those with a greater sense of that. OK, deal with it and move on.

Kimberly Snyder (39:09.77)
Right. That’s so beautiful, Dr. is that inner security where so much of the stress is, I don’t want this to happen or whether this happens. The other thing that I’ve noticed, Dr. Roland, is it’s not this perfect, you know, transition up. I’m working on coherence and there’s times the old triggers come in, but the difference is I don’t stay in them as long.

And they don’t happen as often. So I do see this upward trend where just more resilient, but it’s not like we’re going to be perfect. Sometimes I do get in that argument with John, with my husband, I complain about his dirty socks. I’m like, I shouldn’t say this, but I’m going to say it anyway, right? There’s these deep patterns and we’re working on them, but it does trend up.

Rollin (39:51.348)
That’s right. Yeah, exactly. That’s why I say think of it in spirals up to the next notch and then you stabilize and then the spiral of the next notch. And that takes time.

Kimberly Snyder (39:59.392)
Yeah, but there’s not like, it’s not like, one day I’m coherent and I have all the, you know, I’m completely different. I’ve seen things differently, but those, some of those patterns, you know, Dr. Rowland, whether the amygdala or whatever it is, like from our childhood are really deep wounds. The heart works in its own way. It doesn’t happen always overnight.

Rollin (40:19.87)
That’s exactly right. It’s about ratios is the way I like to think of

Kimberly Snyder (40:24.14)
So the ratio for coherence makes more peace.

Rollin (40:26.593)
Yeah, we’re increasing the ratio. It’s not about, in fact, trying to be perfect. That just keeps you stuck in the head, in the mind, right? And can the downwards spiral.

Kimberly Snyder (40:33.057)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (40:36.63)
Well, the potential for this work to just have an incredible impact on the planet, Dr. Rowland, yes, from the health perspective, but also the unity that’s needed so much on the planet within ourselves and with each other. I mean, there’s so many implications to this hard work, the kindness, the compassion, the clarity, the ability to work together. I mean, it just is.

Is there anything else we didn’t talk about, Dr. Roland, that you would really want? I mean, listen, we could have like a 100 part series to this heart work. We would still have things to talk about. And thankfully, in The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts, Dr. Roland, there’s so much, there’s so many direct quotes from you. There’s so many of your actual research studies referenced in the back.

Rollin (41:05.215)
there’s so much we haven’t talked about.

Kimberly Snyder (41:27.19)
So I’m so honored to have this guide as a little, you know, a real tidbit, a pathway in. But for today, Dr. Rollin, anything from your heart you want to share.

Rollin (41:38.28)
Well, I can’t wait to get my signed copy of your book. And no, would. Yes, I would just really invite anybody who might be listening to just pause throughout today and maybe just kind of do a tune in. What am I really feeling in a way that you might think of that as ask yourself, what am I feeding the field? Am I feeding the field the vibrations of maybe anxiety or fear or

Kimberly Snyder (41:41.228)
Yeah.

Kimberly Snyder (41:54.252)
Mmm.

Kimberly Snyder (42:02.155)
Yes.

Rollin (42:08.384)
hopefully not hate, right? Or these types of lower vibrations. And if you find it yourself, maybe that you’re a little anxious because your to -do list isn’t getting done fast enough or something, or you’re frustrated or impatient, just take some breaths through the heart, through the heart -focused breathing, and draw in with each breath a feeling of patience or kindness, right? Or acceptance, whatever the right offsetting frequency might be.

and then feed that into the field. Let’s broadcast that to the world. Because we didn’t even get into how it only affects our own health and wellbeing and the field affects others, but it’s also affecting the planetary field. That’s a story for another time.

Kimberly Snyder (42:51.778)
Well, that’s the empowering part about this is that we really can do something about the fragmentation and the separation we see in the world. We’re all part of it. But can you review once again, Dr. Rollin, as we close up here, because if people are saying, well, that heart focused breathing sounds so simple. How’s that really doing anything? This breathing through the neurons and the networks in the heart, in your terms, what’s…

Rollin (43:13.502)
Well, it’s just really simple. mean, the step of heart, both, you don’t have to know all the science stuff. Yes, it is doing all that, but it’s really simple. You just focus your attention in the area of the heart or the chest area. Okay. Imagine your breath is flowing in and out of that area and breathe a little slower and deeper than normal and find a rhythm that’s comfortable that you can sustain, you know, for a minute or three minutes of practice.

Kimberly Snyder (43:36.96)
Yes, it really works.

Rollin (43:39.346)
And then as step two, you get the rhythm, you’ll find your own natural, what’s called resonant frequency by doing that, you settle into. And then step two is start to draw in maybe a replacement feeling or attitude for that that was causing, that was draining your energy or causing you stress.

Kimberly Snyder (43:57.056)
No, really works. It’s so powerful. But for the discerning mind out there that’s like, well, from a scientific perspective, we can just say simply, this is helping to change the syncing up between your brain and heart communication.

Rollin (44:12.212)
Yeah, yeah, but it’s doing much more. mean, these are all studies. There’s over 500 published studies now on these, the effect of these techniques, hormonal balance, right? The activity in our brain and nervous system, our ability to make better decisions. mean, the kids get better test scores in school. I mean, it just goes on and on. The heart’s doing more, less work, getting more done. What’s called ejection fraction goes up. I mean, there’s just so much. Blood pressure goes down, et cetera, et cetera.

Kimberly Snyder (44:27.713)
Yes.

Kimberly Snyder (44:42.55)
Well, Dr. Rowland, I could speak with you forever. I want to thank you so much for, we’ll see. We’ll edit that out. I want to thank you so much just for this incredible work you are doing. You’ve continued to do the fact that you’ve dedicated your life to heart awakening on the planet. it’s.

Rollin (45:03.793)
I’m late and they’re not gonna leave me alone here. So Yes, leave me left. I’ll be there shortly You want to that you want to do that over again

Kimberly Snyder (45:06.58)
Okay. Sorry, Dr. Roland. It was me that ran over. Dr. Roland, thank you. Yes. Dr. Roland, I want to thank you so much for your incredible work, the work you continue to do, the fact that you’ve dedicated your life to Heart Awakening on the planet. I can say for myself, one life, one heart has dramatically changed. know many, many, many, many hearts are changed from your work. So thank you so much, Dr. Roland. I appreciate you so much.

Rollin (45:34.942)
Well, back at you, Kimberly, and I appreciate you getting the word out to so many people, especially the younger audiences. And I know you have a lot of the women that follow you, I think that is so awesome. Because you naturally have a way of helping open hearts. So thank you for what you’re doing.

Kimberly Snyder (45:52.986)
Thank you so much, Dr. Rowland and everyone, The Hidden Power of the Five Hearts featuring Dr. McCready’s work, our Heart Aligned Meditation Study and so much more. You can check it out now everywhere. are sold also, mysaluna .com slash five hearts book. And we have direct links to heart math as well. We’ll put in the show notes at mysaluna .com. We’ll be back here Thursday as always for our next Q and A show. Thank you so much for being part of our community.

Sending you so much love from my heart, Dr. Roland’s heart, right to yours.

Rollin (46:24.414)
Take care everyone.