Finding Healthy Sexual Expression with Danielle Harel and Celeste Hirschman [Episode #991]
This Week’s Episode Special Guest: Danielle Harel and Celeste Hirschman
In this episode Kimberly interviews intimacy and sexuality coaches Danielle Harel and Celeste Hirschman. They discuss their partnership, the importance of vulnerability in relationships, and how to dismantle societal masks that hinder authentic connections. The conversation delves into body image, sexual confidence, and the significance of cultivating erotic energy for overall wellness. They also explore the impact of cultural beliefs and shame on sexual expression, offering insights into daily practices for enhancing intimacy and navigating the complexities of pornography in relationships. The discussion also touches on the evolution of sexual desires over time, the impact of trauma on fantasies, and the empowerment that comes from self-connection and healing. The speakers emphasize the significance of open communication in relationships and the journey of understanding one’s own desires and experiences.
About Danielle Harel and Celeste Hirschman
Danielle Harel, Ph.D., and Celeste Hirschman, M.A., are pioneers in intimacy, sexuality, and relationship coaching. Co-founders of the Somatica® Institute, they’ve transformed how love and connection are taught through their experiential, science-based Somatica Method. Together, they’ve trained over 1,000 coaches and helped countless individuals and couples embrace vulnerability, rediscover desire, and create deeply fulfilling relationships. Authors of three influential books—Making Love Real, Coming Together, and Confidence—Danielle and Celeste blend authenticity, humor, and bold honesty to inspire transformation. Their relatable insights into intimacy and connection make them captivating guests on popular podcasts like Sex With Emily: Coming Together and Shameless Sex: How Core Desires Leads to Hot Sex, and Trauma Empowerment, where they offer audiences practical tools to enhance relationships and live passionately.
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Guest Resources
Book: Sex With Emily: Coming Together and Shameless Sex: How Core Desires Leads to Hot Sex, and Trauma Empowerment
Website: https://www.celesteanddanielle.com/
Social Media
Instagram: @ somatica_institute
Episode Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Intimacy and Sexuality Coaching
01:45 The Power of Partnership in Coaching
04:08 Dismantling Masks and Embracing Vulnerability
07:52 Body Image and Sexual Confidence
10:48 Cultivating Erotic Energy and Self-Expression
13:32 The Connection Between Sexual Energy and Overall Wellness
16:14 Healing from Shame and Cultural Beliefs
19:42 Daily Practices for Sexual Energy and Connection
22:46 Navigating Pornography and Intimacy in Relationships
23:15 Exploring Intimacy Through Pornography
24:19 The Connection Between Vulnerability and Sexuality
28:09 Overcoming Blocks to Sexual Energy
32:31 The Evolution of Sexual Desires Over Time
35:55 Understanding Trauma and Fantasy in Sexuality
40:24 Empowerment Through Self-Connection and Healing
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Transcript:
Kimberly Snyder (00:01.33)
Hi everyone and welcome back for our Monday interview show. I am so excited for my very special guests here today. I have two beautiful ladies to offer an incredible conversation. The first is Danielle Horrell and the second is Celeste Hirschman. They are pioneers in intimacy, sexuality and relationship coaching. They’re authors and co-founders of the Samadica Institute where they have taught and trained over a thousand coaches and helped countless individuals and couples embrace vulnerability, rediscover desire, and create deeply fulfilling relationships. Thank you both so much for being here with us today.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (00:44.654)
Thank so much for having us.
Danielle Harel, PhD (00:46.109)
Excited to be here.
Kimberly Snyder (00:47.91)
Well, so I love having partners on the show, business partners, creators together. So the first thing that comes to mind is number one, how did you find each other and decide to collaborate on so many different endeavors? And number two, what both led you to this particular work with intimacy and sexuality? Because it feels like a real, like everyone, you know, a calling, but this is a very specific type of calling.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (01:16.716)
Yeah, I mean, I have to say probably one of the best things that’s ever happened to me in my life is finding Danielle. And speaking of things that make me feel good, know, having our business partnership and being able to collaborate with someone for so many years and for us to just have the same mindset on and how we want to change the world has been so powerful and profound, changed my life forever, for sure.
Kimberly Snyder (01:22.268)
Aww. It’s so beautiful!
Danielle Harel, PhD (01:25.477)
It’s so cool.
Kimberly Snyder (01:45.042)
So how did you, was it through like a friends or through conference, business conference?
Danielle Harel, PhD (01:52.115)
Yeah, so I was doing my PhD in human sexuality and we had like a class that we took through this in the PhD and Celeste took that class. was also people outside of the PhD and Celeste took this class and that’s where we met. know, Celeste and I, as different as people can be, but, you know, we have amazing compatibility around this. We really, we met in the class, in the training, and then we kind of
Kimberly Snyder (02:01.97)
Danielle Harel, PhD (02:21.964)
She asked me out to go to a conference with her. We sat on a bench in San Francisco and we saw that our philosophy is so aligned. It was kind of amazing. We really saw eye to eye. Like, how do we want to help people have a better sex and relationship? And as we were talking, we’re like completing each other’s sentences. Sounds kind of soul-made in some way.
Kimberly Snyder (02:27.579)
that.
Kimberly Snyder (02:51.186)
I love this story. You sometimes it’s funny how outwardly it can seem like, we’re different. That’s how me and my husband are. He’s covered in tattoos and he has a gold grill on his teeth and, you know, just completely different lifestyles. But it’s like when you meet, whether it’s a business partnership or soulmate, that you guys, the intimacy, this closeness, this alignment that isn’t necessarily that you see with the physical eyes, but you feel on an energetic level. I love that you have that intensity together.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (03:17.366)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Danielle’s like a solid oak tree and I’m like a butterfly, you know, but we but we definitely have with our different skill sets have been able to do so much more together than we could have done alone in terms of creating this work that helps people have the best, know, helps people feel good. Like you said, this is a feel good. And that’s what it’s all about. And our first workshop was
Kimberly Snyder (03:41.724)
Yes.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (03:46.124)
a workshop for men on how to be extraordinary lovers to women. And we thought, you know, what want for the world is for women to feel good, you know, and we can train men and everyone else, you know, obviously women have lots of different lovers across the gender spectrum. But in that instance, we were teaching men how to be better lovers to women. And it was a really wonderful place to start for us.
Kimberly Snyder (03:55.409)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (04:08.466)
Mm. And you know, I’m glad you brought up this, you know, this term feel good, which to me has so much to do with connection to self. And then you are able to connect with others and authenticity. So it doesn’t mean you have to be like overly giddy or giggly or overly happy, but really authentic and real. And I know a lot of your work touches on that vulnerability because whether it’s in the bedroom or relationships or, you know, business, wherever there’s so many masks that we can wear.
that keep us from really connecting. How do you start to, when you’re working with someone and you’ve trained so many different people, start to dismantle the mask? Because I feel like even now in culture with social media and TikTok, it’s even more exacerbated in some ways, where if some people don’t even know what their authentic self is, so they don’t know how to authentically connect physically or sexually.
Danielle Harel, PhD (05:02.62)
Yeah, it’s a wonderful question. I feel like the way we do it is there are multiple ways, of course, but we start by actually pointing out the cultural belief systems and all the ways that we’re being fed from very early on, different belief systems, different structures that might be working for some people or not. So that definitely, like we start to talk about those social messages.
And then we start to give people alternatives about like, Hey, you know, there may be like other options that you can think about. we de-shamify the heck of it because we bring ourselves as examples. We talk about like how not perfect we are. We talk about helping people see that you can have a wonderful, beautiful full life without being perfect, but at least you’re to have your own life and not going to live someone else’s life.
Kimberly Snyder (05:56.964)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (06:00.524)
Yeah, I feel like I was very lucky as a child. think my family’s motto was feel good. You know, they sort of like not so much work ethic, much more of a play ethic. And so I learned I learned how to play and I kept playing throughout my life. And and now I get to teach other people how to play with life as well, you know, and and feeling good and having a joyful life. It’s not just like a frivolous thing. It’s like a revolutionary act, especially if you’re
who’s supposed to be who you are in the world, you know, to say like, like, I’m a bisexual woman, and I feel good. And I can be myself, you know, like if you’re if you’re not like, if you’re sort of like outside what as our society tries to normalize, normalize, normalize, and everybody’s supposed to be the same. It’s like, no, I’m different. And I feel good is a big deal, right?
Kimberly Snyder (06:48.028)
Yes, right? And it can be in any way. Sometimes we can fall into a career path because it looks good or our parents wanted us to do this and then we’re never really happy making the money or, you know, all the many ways. So back to this cultural perspective and so much of our society has these ideas of, you know, beauty and body weight and body image.
So what would you say to our listeners or anyone that says, well, when I’m in, when I’m naked with my partner, I just can’t enjoy myself because I feel so self-conscious. I’m thinking about, don’t look good, you know, because it just creates, even though in my body, you can feel like you shrivel up instead of expanding, you start to feel very small. And then the thoughts and like overthinking. So how do we open up? How do we start to…
embrace our energy more than just the physical, again, in life, but also sexually.
Danielle Harel, PhD (07:52.028)
Yeah, that’s great. So yeah, it’s beautiful how you said it because like that’s exactly where we start. We say, okay, so when you’re feeling like that about yourself, like notice how it feels like you feel contained and you feel small and you don’t feel your beautiful, glorious, big self. So let’s see what it would feel like if you actually stepped into your body and let your full self actually.
breathe and feel pleasure and enjoy the connection and the intimacy because many times because of socialization and because the images that we see, we feel that something’s wrong with our body. But many times our partner might feel that that’s the most delicious body that they’ve ever encountered in life. And if we are like so tight inside that we don’t even allow ourselves to open up and take those compliments and kind of like, you know, I know I worked on my body image a lot through this like
in the bedroom. It was one of my most healing places to work on that because that was the place I was like, okay, I’m going to actually listen to my partner and I’m going to take it in. He like, you know, touches my belly and he says like, belly is so beautiful. And I was like, okay, I’m going to take it in. I’m going to ask him again. I really love my belly. Please tell me. He’s like, yeah, my God, I love your belly so much. You know, like it’s a wonderful way to start healing it and allowing a different truth.
to come in that’s not just like the very polished truth that we see on social media.
Kimberly Snyder (09:21.202)
Right, right. I love that. Because we all, you know, it’s interesting how back to this authenticity, to me, know, sexiness isn’t just something you can paint on. It really is the energy that someone’s embodying. And that is something we don’t have to try to be perfect looking. And there really is no perfect looking, but what we can is work on that connection as we express it.
You know, in yoga, the sacral chakras, you know, the creative expression is the sexuality, the creating projects, the writing, you know, pregnancy, all these different things come from that place, which is so unique. Are there any in your workshops and your training, are there any practices or specific journal prompts or anything that you do to invoke someone to really connect with that essence of?
you know, that sexiness that cannot just be painted on.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (10:18.114)
Yeah, we actually have like an erotic embodiment class where you go in step by step, get re in touch with your body and actually find that pleasure center and learn how to move that energy through your body and exude it out of your body. And we also have a body image class, you know, to help people overcome some of those challenges. So we really focus on people healing around those things and finding their, you know, their inner glow and letting it shine out in the world.
Kimberly Snyder (10:21.478)
Man.
Danielle Harel, PhD (10:48.404)
And we really find that this disconnects from the body and disconnects from our erotic experience in our body. Because women were one of the messages we get is that if we are sexual, we’re sluts. So we don’t let ourselves connect with our sexuality. And I was like, wow, sexuality is your power. That’s the place that you’re to have the creativity and the aliveness. So let’s get deeper into it. And in this classes, we really invite people to kind of like, yeah.
how to decompartmentalize this experience of sexuality and make it like a life force as opposed to this like shrunk thing that you just keep in the bedroom for your partner for specific act. No, it’s yours. It’s yours to live with and enjoy and really kind of take it in.
Kimberly Snyder (11:38.394)
And I think too, there’s this line of what feels really good to us to be in our sexual power, but not to feel like we have to show too much or give things away when we don’t want to to get attention, to know that it’s inside for us. It’s kind of hard to verbalize, but I know you guys know what I’m talking about, where it really is this incredible creative center to share with our partner or who we choose.
but also to feel like it’s also really sacred and special.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (12:10.006)
And I feel like people are so different. Like some people want a little bit more of that internal space and they don’t want to be like looked at all the time or invaded. And so they can decide I’m going to keep that piece a little bit more internal and I’m going to show it just when I want to receive that intention. And other people are like, give me all the attention all the time. And so just allowing for the fact that people are different and people need different amounts of attention, means like you get to, when you really get that glow going, it’s up to you.
Kimberly Snyder (12:12.592)
Yes.
Kimberly Snyder (12:17.425)
West.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (12:39.246)
to decide who you share it with and how you share it with. And you might wanna share it moderately with specific people, or you might wanna share it broadly with everyone. And that’s such a personal choice. And I think that’s the thing that is so important about the way that we teach in Somatica, one size doesn’t fit all. People feel differently about energy and attention, and let’s find out who each person is and what they want in that realm.
Kimberly Snyder (12:40.72)
Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (12:56.177)
Right.
Kimberly Snyder (13:02.756)
Right. And even to the fact I have a couple of friends who are working on their sexual connection, but they’ve chosen right now to be celibate, which is really interesting. So this sexual energy is coming through and they feel passionate when they’re cooking their dinner, right? Or it’s like they feel it when they’re putting on their makeup and they’re living it, but it doesn’t have to be as literal, like you said, in like sexual acts, but more of this creative energy, this pulse, this Kundalini.
Danielle Harel, PhD (13:32.124)
Yeah, that’s aliveness. That’s wonderful. That’s it’s really important, as Celeste said, for us to help people understand. It’s yours. Do what you want to do with it. You don’t have to apologize of how you want to live your life. You don’t have to decide. You can change your mind. You can decide how you want to cultivate and grow this erotic energy, but this is your life force and you deserve to experience this level of aliveness.
Enjoy and funnel it anywhere that you want to.
Kimberly Snyder (14:05.666)
Mm-hmm. And you know, here at Saloon on My Brand, we talk a lot about holistic wellness and how one thing affects everything else. So sort of like, you know, you guys are talking about rigidity or clamping it down or trying to suppress sexual energy, which feels quite rigid, can lead to anything, right? Inflammation, stress, constipation, this aliveness, this vitality or yoga, we would say prana.
has an overall wellness effect. Have you seen that quite literally in yourselves and or any clients how it just opens up overall physical health?
Celeste Hirschman, MA (14:43.262)
Yeah, it’s really funny because one day we were accused of only having like hot coaches. And I think people were looking at the photos of our coaches and they were exuding their joy and erotic energy because they don’t all look a particular way. And so it’s, what Somatica does is it helps people find that glow on the inside. And then it just exudes out from you. And it’s so beautiful and healthy and alive and sexy that
Kimberly Snyder (14:57.457)
Right.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (15:09.166)
everyone looks gorgeous when they have it, you know? And I think that’s the confusion about like looks have to be a particular way. No, it’s like when you’re connected to your erotic energy, it’s gorgeous, it’s beautiful. And it helps you feel more alive. It helps stress move through your body, right? Orgasms help you get rid of stress. you know, like being in pleasure helps tension and cortisol go away. So all of that increases your health and your joy and your longevity, you know.
being in connection with this part of ourselves is hugely, hugely healing. And when we’re robbed of it, it’s so disempowering.
Kimberly Snyder (15:45.776)
Hmm. And, you know, I mentioned a couple of things that can happen when you feel disempowered, right? On a physical level, we could say like inflammation, like things are sort of kept in. What have you seen in some people when they’re starting in your programs or, you know, just out in the world when you can tell that someone isn’t allowing them to feel this energy, which is part of the human experience.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (16:11.598)
Go ahead, Danielle, I’m gonna let you take it.
Kimberly Snyder (16:12.62)
I don’t have to say anything.
Danielle Harel, PhD (16:13.332)
I feel like many times people are just muted. They feel much more depressed. They feel sad. I feel like they’re not fully owning their body and they are just not fully, you know, alive. And you see it, you see the difference because again, like we have a program when we train coaches and you see people when they come in and you see them when they come out and it’s just like a complete revolution because when you let yourself like be who you are,
Kimberly Snyder (16:19.634)
I love you.
Danielle Harel, PhD (16:42.95)
you feel better and it’s not necessarily an easy path, you know what I mean? I don’t want people to think like, it’s all easy. You do confront sadness and you do work with other parts of yourself that are not fully, that were not all celebrated growing up because that’s a healing journey, right? So really kind of…
seeing that allows people to really feel their best self on all levels, you know.
Kimberly Snyder (17:14.724)
Yes, I mean, there’s a part of this too that I think is questioning not just societal beliefs, but also your ancestral, your family beliefs. Because I know having grown up in a very Catholic conservative family, when I was little, I remember starting when I was about seven, my well-meaning grandmother and relatives would tell me not to smile. They were like, you’ll get attention. know, like almost like shaming.
like to be like, know, men also to look at you, like you shouldn’t be doing this and that and cover like covering up all the time. So it starts to feel like these patterns are, you know, this bigger level, but then also individual within the family that can they have to be overcome in order to feel that, you know, lack of shame, that freedom burgeoning up.
Danielle Harel, PhD (18:08.04)
Yeah, definitely. grew up. Sorry. I just, I sorry. You have a delay.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (18:08.718)
Yeah, and I do feel like
Kimberly Snyder (18:13.916)
Yeah.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (18:16.77)
Yeah, no, I think on a foundational level, there’s when you get all of those messages all the time, it’s this kind of lack of safety and reconnecting with safety in your own body and feeling this truth of the self, which is that, you know, I can come back to me always, no matter what happens to me. I can always come back to me gives you this sense of like safety in the world. And then like we said, you get to decide what you want to do with your energy, but don’t put it out, you know.
Like learn how to stoke it and connect with it and be with it and find your sense of safety in connection with that part of yourself.
Kimberly Snyder (18:46.962)
Hmm.
Kimberly Snyder (18:55.154)
Daniel, do you have something to add to that?
Danielle Harel, PhD (19:00.082)
Yeah, I totally resonate with what you’re talking about because I grew up with a lot of shame as well and every movement was shamed almost like, you know, and there’s something in the process of healing that is about reclaiming those parts and really like letting myself feel what it feels like to move or start to like shed the shame and start to feel like, wow, like, you know, my body is magical. You know, it has so much.
beauty in it that’s not just about what my mom said or what society says and it really can be very powerful, this process of shedding the shame.
Kimberly Snyder (19:42.322)
So in your work, there’s so many different aspects of wellness. could say with diet, some people kind of go on and off. may try to have a diet. go exercise. With this particular journey with healing sexual energy in your teachings, is it something that you encourage people to think about, consider, work on on a daily basis, on a regular basis? I know it’s a nonlinear path. Some people may touch into it and then, you
Danielle Harel, PhD (19:49.544)
Yeah.
Kimberly Snyder (20:11.196)
come back, how does it flow in general? Because I know it’s.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (20:15.18)
Yeah, feel like there’s this sort of sexual anorexia that we have as a culture, this sort of lack of connecting with our eroticism that may make us seek all sorts of, get our needs met elsewhere in a way that doesn’t feel great. Whereas when we actually cultivate our erotic energy, when we allow ourselves to have our orgasms however we want to get them with ourself or with other people.
Kimberly Snyder (20:27.867)
Uh-huh.
Celeste Hirschman, MA (20:44.63)
or whatever makes us feel orgasmic, whatever that is, whether it’s dancing or gardening or masturbating, learning how to let ourselves fill up with that energy is so powerful. And I think you wanna take it at a pace that feels comfortable for you, right? Because if you’ve been denying it, denying it, denying it for so long, it can be a lot to just like fully rev up into it. Maybe you need to go very gently with like finding different approaches to pleasure.
that are in alignment with, you know, whatever, a walk or a bath or just like, you know, like dancing and conn
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