The Importance of Nitric Oxide and How to Optimize our Body’s Production of it with Dr. Nathan S. Bryan [EP. #1022]

This Week’s Episode Special Guest: Dr. Nathan S. Bryan

Summary: 

In this conversation, Dr. Nathan S Bryan discusses the critical role of nitric oxide in preventing chronic diseases and promoting longevity. He emphasizes the importance of proactive dietary and lifestyle strategies to maintain health before symptoms arise. Dr. Bryan explains how nitric oxide influences cellular functions, including the activation of telomerase, which helps maintain telomere length, and promotes mitochondrial biogenesis, leading to increased energy production. He expresses why nitric oxide is essential for activating pathways that contribute to a long and healthy life.

About Dr. Nathan S. Bryan 

Dr Nathan S. Bryan  is an author and pioneering scientist transforming the way we think about health, longevity, and human performance. His groundbreaking nitric oxide research has challenged health myths, fueled a billion-dollar market, and empowered millions to reclaim their health and optimize performance.

He was the first to describe nitrite and nitrate as indispensable nutrients required for optimal cardiovascular health. He was the first to demonstrate and discover an endocrine function of nitric oxide via the formation of S-nitrosoglutathione and inorganic nitrite. This technology is now validated in six published clinical trials.

Dr. Bryan earned his undergraduate Bachelor of Science degree in Biochemistry from the University of Texas at Austin and his doctoral degree from Louisiana State University School of Medicine in Shreveport where he was the recipient of the Dean’s Award for Excellence in Research. He pursued his post-doctoral training as a Kirschstein Fellow at Boston University School of Medicine in the Whitaker Cardiovascular Institute. After a two year post-doctoral fellowship, in 2006 Dr. Bryan was recruited to join faculty at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston by Ferid Murad, M.D., Ph.D., 1998 Nobel Laureate in Medicine or Physiology.

Guest Resources:

Book: The Secret of Nitric Oxide: Bringing the Science To Life  

Website: drnathansbryan.com

Social: @drnathansbryan 

 

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Episode Chapters

00:00 The Role of Nitric Oxide in Health and Longevity

00:20 Nitric Oxide and Cellular Function

00:38 Activating Longevity Pathways

 

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Transcript: 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:00.77)

Dr. Nathan, thank you so much for joining us here today.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (00:04.266)

Kim, so great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:06.51)

I think I hear a little bit of a Texas twang, am I right?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (00:11.562)

Probably a little. I grew up in Texas, spent a lot of time abroad. I trained it or went to school in Louisiana and then trained up in Boston before I came back to Texas.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:21.154)

Wow, you sort of did a full circle back to your roots. Well, I really enjoyed reading your book, Doctor, The Secret of Nitric Oxide, Bringing the Science to Life. It was really interesting. And I also love how you wove so much about your personal story in and your education and your influences, because I think that brings the subject matter to life even more. And I have so many questions I wrote down.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (00:23.36)

No place to go.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (00:50.54)

Before we get into that, have to say Dr. Nathan, right before I came on, and we both modified the time a little bit, I actually took my dad to get a calcium scan. And it was something I had heard about on another podcast interview actually. And I thought, well, maybe it’s a good thing to do. And I can’t tell you how emotional it made me. I was very surprised to see the heart. He’s in his seventies.

 

So the doctor was going over with us and he’s like, look, he’s in a really good level, but just to see that there was any sort of clogging is scary. know, to think about, like it starts to feel really real when you’re actually looking at the heart and you’re looking at family members’ hearts and how important cardiovascular health is and this whole subject.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (01:24.853)

Yeah.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (01:38.644)

Well, it’s the number one killer of men and women worldwide. mean, so it’s a very serious subject. you know, think coronary calcium’s are good, but really that’s, you know, it’s good to have data, but we don’t worry about calcified plaque because that stable hard plaque, what you worry about is the soft, vulnerable plaque. That’s the point. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it’s important to put that in context. It’s good data. It’s good to know, but hard

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:50.21)

Yes.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (01:57.43)

Yes, and he also got an angiogram. He did that part too.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (02:08.096)

A calcified plaque doesn’t kill anybody. It’s the soft plaque that ruptures that causes an MI.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (02:12.844)

Yes, exactly. So at first, I booked him for that, the scan, and then I learned about the soft plaque angiogram and realized how much it seems like the technology has advanced from prior generations and how we can do these tests. So anyways, it was just even more interesting to me to read about nitric oxide being as it’s so related. I want to read this quote that’s in your book.

 

that was, first of all, a lot of people have heard of nitric oxide because as you talk about, it’s become a popular compound we hear in the wellness world. Some people are using it for working out. You’re talking about it in a much, much deeper way. And this quote, the discovery of nitric oxide and its function is one of the most important in the history of cardiovascular medicine.

 

and how many people might not even realize how nitric oxide led to the Nobel Prize, and I believe it was in 1998.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (03:16.416)

1998, yeah. And that quote was by Dr. Fuster, who was the president of American Heart Association at the time the Nobel Prize was awarded to. You that quote is, what, 1998? So what is that, 27-year-old quote? And it still rings true today.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (03:31.48)

Can you share with us how the Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to Nitrogox, how the new discoveries and new research sort of changed the trajectory of your career and your focus?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (03:42.944)

Yeah, well, was the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine in 1998 that was awarded to Bob Furchcott, Lou Ignarro, and Fred Murad. But collectively, they came together and really it was three independent studies. So in 1977, Dr. Murad discovered that drugs like nitroglycerin release nitric oxide, dilate blood vessels, and that’s how they work. Those drugs had been used for more than 100 years prior to they understood how they worked.

 

but they dilate the blood vessels, they relieve the ischemic pain known as angel in patients with obstructive coronary disease. And so, I mean, that was an important discovery in pharmacology on understanding how certain drugs work. But really, I think the seminal discovery was by Bob Furchcott in 1980, where he discovered that our endothelial cells, the cells that line all blood vessels throughout the body, produced a molecule that caused these blood vessels to dilate or to relax. And he didn’t know what this molecule was.

 

So he called it endothelium derived relaxing factor. Obviously by naming this molecule, this unknown molecule, knew how or he knew where it was produced and what it did. It was a relaxing factor produced in our endothelial cells. And then, you the race was on what is this EDRF molecule? Because if you could identify that it would be revolutionary in basket biology. And it was Lou Ignaro who went on to later discover that EDRF is actually nitric oxide.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (04:41.614)

Mm.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (05:07.358)

So the story came together that whether if you give a nitric oxide releasing drug or you stimulate endogenous nitric oxide production, it dilates blood vessels, it improves oxygen and nutrient delivery, and it controls everything we know about the cardiovascular system. I think that’s why Val Fuster had made that quote because it was and is and will remain to be the greatest discovery in the history of cardiovascular medicine.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (05:32.866)

Well, besides pharmaceutical or medications, doctor, you talk about in the book about eating green vegetables and how vegetables have nitric oxide and it’s related. This is really interesting oral bacteria. I keep hearing how bad mouthwash is for you, but just to keep, you know, the biology of your mouth intact, but also vegetables. can we, and I love how you talk about a plant-based diet in the book as well and all the research. And I want to show you, I’m drinking my glowing green smoothie right now.

 

I have a, my family has a tremendous amount of greens every day that made me really happy. My kids drink it, my dad drinks it, my husband drinks it. So is it enough to eat a vegetable, a pro-vegetable diet, given that of course levels may decrease over time, but is that the foundation of nitric oxide levels in the body?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (06:02.666)

There you go.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (06:23.398)

No, not really. mean, what we’re finding is that… So nitric oxide is a gas, right? Your body has to make it. So nitric oxide is not found in vegetables. It’s not found in beets. It’s not found in capsules or pills. And I think that’s the misconception because the general public doesn’t understand that nitric oxide, when it’s produced in the body, it’s a gas. And once it’s produced, it’s gone in less than a second. So really…

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:34.574)

Mmm.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (06:44.054)

Okay.

 

Yeah, I read that. It’s crazy!

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (06:48.896)

My challenge was, and really how I got involved in the field 25, 26 years ago, was trying to figure out once nitric oxide is produced and it’s gone in less than a second, where does it go, what does it become, and how does it signal? Because we knew that the physiological effects of nitric oxide lasted longer than one millisecond or two milliseconds. So then we had to create this fingerprint of N-O-Biology that once it’s produced, where does it go, what does it become, and how does it signal?

 

So once we understood that and then we started trying to figure out, how does the human body make nitric oxide? So as we discussed, it’s produced in the lining of the blood vessels and that production pathway gets, I guess, more dysfunctional with A. So we lose about 10 to 12 % of our nitric oxide production through that enzyme per decade. But you mentioned diet. Diet is an important contributor factor in the prevention, the treatment, and the curing of all disease.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (07:37.71)

Mm.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (07:47.048)

Diet and lifestyle are the number one things for this. So we discovered probably 25, 30 years ago, even dating back before that, it was recognized that there are bacteria that live on the crypts of the tongue in the oral cavity that were somehow responsible for nitric oxide being produced, nitric oxide gas being produced in the lumen of the stomach. So then you start to figure out, how do we get from bacteria in the mouth to producing nitric oxide gas?

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:09.506)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (08:15.87)

And what it was later discovered was inorganic nitrate that’s found in green leafy vegetables, really anything grown in the soil, right? Because the soil has contained nitrogen. It’s either in the form of ammonia or nitrate. And then those plants assimilate the nitrate. Then when we consume those plants, that nitrate is taken up in our gut. It’s concentrated in our salivary glands. And now each time we salivate, we’re secreting nitrate.

 

these nitrate reducing bacteria that live on the crypts of the tongue activate or metabolize that nitrate into nitrite. And then we swallow our own saliva and that’s the source of the nitric oxide gas. But there’s many steps as you start to understand that are required. Number one, you must get enough nitrate in your diet. Number two, you must have the right oral bacteria because humans do not have the capacity to metabolize nitrate. We do not express the nitrate reductase enzyme.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (08:55.885)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (09:12.478)

And then number three, you must have stomach acid production. When we started figuring out, the standard American diet, you’re only getting about 150 milligrams of nitrate per day, and you need at least 300 to 400 milligrams. Number two, and the major problem is two out of three Americans use mouthwash. Almost everybody has fluoride in their toothpaste. 73 %

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:15.81)

Right.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:33.326)

The fluoride will kill out the healthy microbiota.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (09:37.088)

Now that’s right, fluoride is in toothpaste and mouthwash and drinking water because it kills bacteria. So it’s killing the good bacteria, it’s killing the bad bacteria, it’s a neurotoxin, it’s just on your thyroid function. And then the other… No, it’s awful. And then the other problem are antacids. know, 200 million prescriptions written for antacids every year and two out of three Americans report using an over-the-counter antacid.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:43.767)

Yes.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (09:47.596)

I’m so glad I won’t use that.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (10:03.988)

So everything that we do, our diet, oral hygienic practices, pharmacotherapy, seems to disrupt and shut down nitric oxide production. And to me, that explains why people are so sick.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:13.399)

Okay.

 

Can I ask you a question about oral health besides the fluoride doctor, if people have a lot of gum issues or cavities or just eating a really acidic diet in general, there’s a lot that can also throw that part of the equation off, I imagine.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (10:33.124)

For sure. What we’re understanding now that the microbiome has been mapped on the humans, all the bacteria that live in and on the human body, there’s 10 times more bacteria than there are human cells. The problem is what we call dysbiosis. When the terrain or the ecology of that environment changes to where it doesn’t allow for the good guys to repopulate and it allows for the opportunistic pathogenic bacteria to show up and wreak havoc.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (10:44.182)

What?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (11:01.598)

So what we’re finding now is you can’t destroy the microbiome. We have to support it and we have to change the ecology. We have to change the environment to where the pathogens can’t grow. The good guys act as the cops. They keep the bad guys at bay. And that should really be the target. But you made a couple of interesting comments or spot on comments. A diet, an acidic diet, a high sugar diet. When we eat those types of food, it drops the pH of the saliva and it makes it more acidic.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (11:24.899)

Yeah.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (11:30.814)

And now an acidic saliva allows for the population of these caries causing bacteria, the gingival bacteria that cause gingivitis, periodontal disease. And so the solution, once upon a time, was just to kill the bacteria. Throw an atomic bomb in your mouth with fluoride wrenches, with alcohol wrenches, with chlorhexidine, and just kill all the bacteria. But now we know that’s causing more harm than it is providing benefit. So the strategy now is to change your diet.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (11:54.764)

Right. Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (11:59.434)

change your oral hygienic practices, create an environment that’s conducive to good diverse oral microbiome. Not only do you have better oral hygiene, but you maintain optimal nitric oxide production, you get better blood pressure management, and your body’s more healthy.

 

So back to the nitric oxide, we’ve been talking about the benefits for cardiovascular wellness. And you also talk about in your book, there’s a section about potentially helping to reduce systemic inflammation, telomeres, mitochondrial function. Can you talk about benefits in those areas as well?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (15:35.112)

Yes, so the drivers, if you look at any, we’ll handle the of the drivers of chronic disease, then we’ll look at the hallmarks of longevity because I think they’re all related, but they’re typically two different kind of subject matters. But if you look at chronic disease, whether it’s heart disease, Alzheimer’s, diabetes, autoimmune disease, there’s always four things that are present in all of those disease. There’s always low blood flow to the affected organ. There’s always inflammation, oxidative stress and immune dysfunction.

 

And it’s the loss of nitric oxide that drives all four of those. Because if you can’t make nitric oxide, you don’t dilate the blood vessels until you get low blood flow, we it ischemia hypoxia. You get runaway inflammation. Your mitochondria become uncoupled. You generate a lot of superoxide and oxidative stress. And then our immune cells start attacking our body. We can develop autoimmune or we call immune dysfunction. And interestingly, if you can just restore the production of nitric oxide, it dilates the blood vessels.

 

It suppresses the inflammation. In fact, I have several patents on the methods of reducing inflammation by using nitric oxide. And it’s getting to the source of the oxidative stress. It’s recoupling the electron transport chain of the mitochondria. It’s shutting down superoxide production from NADPH oxidase and then even the enzyme that makes nitric oxide. We can suppress that enzyme from making superoxide. And then it corrects the immune dysfunction that we see.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (16:36.855)

Wow.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (16:58.136)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (16:58.762)

So nitric oxide is the foundation for preventing the onset and progression of chronic disease. But that’s medicine, right? And medicine is a reactive practice. What we hope to do is change the conversation of being proactive and start to implement dietary lifestyle strategies before you get sick and before you develop symptoms. But when we talk about longevity, we always look at the length of our telomeres, we always looked at the function of our mitochondria.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:19.873)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (17:25.664)

and then we look at how well our stem cells can mobilize and differentiate. And I talk about in the book, and this is published science that goes back 20 years now, nitric oxide activates an enzyme called telomerase, prevents telomeres from shortening. It activates mitochondrial biogenesis. So if you have nitric oxide, you have more mitochondria per cell generating more energy with less oxygen. And then it’s the signal that tells our own stem cells to mobilize and differentiate.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:29.997)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (17:52.042)

So if you want to a long, healthy life, you have to have nitric oxide to activate these longevity pathways.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (17:59.574)

So one of the things that, and that’s all amazing, and I think there was some confusion you mentioned in the book, and I remember reading about this as well, where people thought, well, maybe I’ll take L-arginine as a supplement. Can you talk about, can you clarify that for us?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (18:11.146)

day.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (18:15.648)

Yeah, so this goes back to really the year the Nobel Prize was awarded because the pathway that was discovered, this enzyme, nitric oxide synthase, takes L-arginine and converts it to nitric oxide gas. And then we get little citrulline as a byproduct. But because L-arginine is a semi-essential amino acid, meaning that we get it from the breakdown of protein, whether you’re eating plant protein or animal protein, L-arginine is found in most proteins. So as long as we have stomach acid production, we’re constantly getting L-arginine through our diet.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:27.906)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (18:45.792)

But every cell in the human body makes arginine through the urea cycle. So we’re never deficient in L-arginine. There’s only one condition, and I’ll talk about it in the book, but it’s a rare inborn ear metabolism where these kids can’t generate L-arginine endogously. But the majority of us, all other humans on Earth, have excess arginine, have more than what’s needed to bind the enzyme to make nitric oxide.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (18:57.997)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (19:13.856)

So to me as a biochemist, it never made sense to supplement with L-Arginine. And in 2006 and 2007, two studies came out which showed that it should be contraindicated and really shouldn’t be given because in a clinical trial in patients who had just suffered a heart attack, they gave one group L-Arginine and one group of placebo. The group that got the L-Arginine had higher mortality, higher death.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:18.158)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (19:40.992)

And so the conclusion of 2006 study was you should not give L-Arginine to patients who have suffered heart attack. Why? Because it will kill them. It will kill them more so than giving a placebo. And then the next year in patients with peripheral arterial disease, they did the same study giving L-Arginine chronically and the patients get worse. Their disease gets worse. So…

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (19:41.366)

What?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (20:06.62)

Look again, arginine should never be used as a primer for nitric oxide production. Because number one, we’re never deficient in it. Number two, if you have endothelial dysfunction and uncoupled NOS, you make the patients worse. They get worse. And that’s published clinical data, randomized placebo control data. It’s indisputable.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (20:25.902)

Wow, so much conflicting information that we hear. It could be potentially.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (20:32.064)

Well, that’s the problem. I mean, that’s really the problem because you’ve got these companies out there as we increase the awareness and the importance of nitric oxide, more companies are entering this space trying to sell nitric oxide products. And if they don’t understand the science, they can actually do harm and first do no harm. then companies are putting citrulline in products and calling it nitric oxide. Citrulline is a byproduct of nitric oxide production.

 

And so it can be very dangerous and all this misinformation and really ignorance in some cases and in other cases it’s deception and fraud because these companies know better but yet they’re still promoting this.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:13.538)

So as a baseline doctor, want to make sure our oral health is good. We want to make sure we’re taking in these vegetables. We have stomach acid. How do we know if we’re deficient or not in nitric oxide? Are there any symptoms? Are there any tests?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (21:19.667)

Absolutely.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (21:32.426)

Well, unfortunately, there’s not any clinical test in terms of drawing blood and getting a number and then saying, you’re low or we can treat it and get you normal like vitamin D, for example. You got a low vitamin D. We give you vitamin D until we get you optimal at, say, 80. So that’s easy. Vitamin D is typically a stable molecule you can measure in the blood. Nitric oxide is not. It’s a gas. So we have to rely on symptoms. And now we recognize there’s a hierarchy of symptoms that develop

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (21:44.183)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (22:03.09)

as you progress in your nitric oxide depletion. So number one, you develop sexual dysfunction because if you can’t dilate the blood vessels of the sex organs because those blood vessels can’t make nitric oxide, you get erectile dysfunction. And it occurs in both men and women. mean, for men to get an erection, it’s simple. It’s a vascular issue. But for women to become orgasmic, they have to have an increase in blood flow, an increase in pressure, and it’s that increase in pressure that causes orgasm. So without an increase in pressure,

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:15.916)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (22:32.544)

Without an increase in nitric oxide, you don’t get an increase in volume, you don’t get an increase in pressure, you won’t become an orgasmic. So that’s number one.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (22:38.51)

Well, you know, for women, mean, for men, it’s kind of like you said, it’s more obvious for women. It’s not because you can say, you know, not connected to this person or there’s just so many, it’s just much more, you know, hard to pin.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (22:44.649)

Yeah.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (22:54.878)

No, but look, whatever it is. mean, men are obviously simple organisms because mostly it’s just a vascular problem. Women, could be emotional, it could be hormonal, it could be psychological, it could be lack of chemistry. But there’s a neural connection too because there’s nerve fibers. The sex organs in both men and women are highly innervated. So if we’re stimulated, those nerve endings, we call them non-adrenergic, non-color-indic nerve endings, produce nitric oxide gas. So if we’re stimulated,

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (23:02.733)

Wait.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (23:12.93)

Wait.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (23:24.436)

we get aroused, right? And that’s a nitric oxide related phenomenon because then we dilate into blood vessels, it’s causing sheer stress, it’s further increase in dilation and it increases lubrication, it increases arousal, it increases libido and it allows for orgasm. So it’s all connected, if you don’t, it’s a symptom. That’s what I say, erectile dysfunctions or sexual dysfunction is a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (23:44.738)

It’s a symptom.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (23:52.758)

Well, doctor, what do you think about-

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (23:53.056)

Now then you’ve to ask yourself, why are you nitric oxide deficient? Is it because you don’t have any estrogen because you’re perimenopausal or postmenopausal? Is it because you have oral dysbiosis? Is it because you’re eating a bad diet? Is it because you’re using fluoride in your toothpaste? But you have to start asking the question, what’s leading to nitric oxide deficiency?

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:05.048)

Right.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:17.326)

And then the other side is we hear how common commercials everywhere for Viagra. And you talk about that.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (24:23.824)

That’s right. Now, but those drugs, yeah, those drugs are dependent upon the production of nitric oxide. So these drugs were approved by the FDA in 1998. Maybe, maybe not coincidentally. But these drugs are called phosphodiesterase inhibitors. And I’m going to take you through how these drugs work because I think it’s important people understand this. So nitric oxide is produced. It diffuses into the smooth muscle that surround all blood vessels.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (24:34.594)

Yeah.

 

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (24:53.32)

and it creates a second messenger called cyclic GMP. Then we have an enzyme called phosphodasterase, and that degrades cyclic GMP. So Viagra is a phosphodasterase inhibitor. It prevents the breakdown of the second messenger that nitric oxide activates. So if you can’t make nitric oxide, the PD5 inhibitors don’t work. And today, 27 years later, we know that 50 % of the men that are prescribed Viagra or these other

 

drugs like Levitra Cialis don’t respond with better erections. And the reason they’re non-responsive to those drugs is because they’re not making enough nitric oxide to activate that second messenger system, so there’s nothing for these drugs to work on. So again, that make it 50%. So these drugs, despite billions and billions of dollars every year through these drug companies, they only work in 50 % of the people. So that told us

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (25:27.885)

Mmm.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (25:38.572)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (25:52.641)

Well, erectile dysfunction is certainly a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency. And so now we’ve done studies in people that were non-responsive to PD-5 inhibition therapy. We give them our nitric oxide releasing lozenge. Now we activate that second messenger. And now these drugs work and men have better erections. Now we can take the 50 % of the dead response. Now, it’s over.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:12.792)

But wouldn’t they not need the drug? sorry, wouldn’t they not need it if they had enough nitric oxide in the first place?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (26:19.07)

No, of course, that’s the whole purpose of what we call restorative physiology is understand the mechanism of disease to the extent that you can fix it. And when you take that approach, there is no there’s no need for drug therapy because we’re fixing the signal transduction pathway that’s leading to these symptoms.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (26:37.774)

Right. was another symptom? Yeah. Will you tell us more symptoms besides sexual dysfunction?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (26:37.994)

So that’s the goal, actually the goal of medicine.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (26:45.728)

Well, that’s number one, and 50 % of men over the age of 40 self-report ED. I think it’s much higher, because most men at 40 aren’t going to self-report ED. Number two, your blood pressure starts to go up. Because if you think about it, if you can’t dilate the blood vessels, now you’ve got the same volume of blood going through smaller pipes, and pressure goes up. Those are just simple laws of physics, right? P, pressure equals volume times resistance. And two out of three Americans have an unsafe elevation in blood pressure. So it’s a huge problem.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:07.597)

Great.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (27:16.274)

And so what we’re finding is that hypertension is a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency. And the reason people develop resistant hypertension, which means they’re resistant to drug therapy, things like ACE inhibitors, ARBs, calcium channel blockers, you know, even though these patients are prescribed these drugs, 50 % of the people that are given these drugs don’t respond with better blood pressure. And why is that? Well, because it’s not a renal angiotensin issue. So ACE inhibitors, ARBs aren’t going to lower it.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (27:16.471)

Yeah.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (27:45.62)

It’s not a dysregulation of calcium, so calcium channel blockers aren’t going to lower their blood pressure. So it’s a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency. Again, if you fix the nitric oxide production pathways, now you dilate the blood vessels, now you’ve got the same volume of blood going through bigger pipes, pressure normalizes. So I like to say nitric oxide fixes the physics problem of high blood pressure. And it’s really that simple. But you have to ask yourself, why are we deficient nitric oxide?

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (28:15.448)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (28:15.604)

Then you ask the patients, do you use mouthwash? Do you have fluoride in your toothpaste? So two out of three people say yes to mouthwash. 99 out of 100 people say yes to fluoride in their toothpaste. Are you taking an antacid? Two out of three Americans, sometimes four out of five Americans say yes. So there’s your problem. So if you wean off antacids, you stop using mouthwash, you get fluoride out of your toothpaste. If you live in a city where they put fluoride in your drinking water, get a home filtration system.

 

remove it from exposure, and all of a sudden your oral microbiome, your entire microbiome improves, your health improves, your nitric oxide output improves, your blood pressure becomes normal, and we start making people better.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (28:57.068)

Wow. So you can really cure from that lifestyle. We don’t necessarily need additional products.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (29:04.628)

No, ideally, and we’ve done these studies and we’ve proof of principles. So number one, we’ve shown that if you take normal intensive patients and you just give them mouthwash for seven days, we didn’t change their diet. These were healthy individuals not on medication. And we see their blood pressure go up, in some cases up to 26 millimeters of mercury, just by using mouthwash. And then we stop and then four days later we see that the blood pressure comes back down.

 

and the oral microbiome has repopulated. So that’s causation, right? You eradicate the oral microbiome, you decrease nitric oxide production, you see an increase in blood pressure. Now the studies we’re doing now, taking people who have high blood pressure that are on medication, and then we switch them from a fluorinated toothpaste and get them off mouthwash. I just developed a fluoride-free nitric oxide-friendly toothpaste. We put them on our toothpaste to target the oral microbiome.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (29:56.941)

Well.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (30:00.382)

And usually within two weeks, 30 days, you come back, their blood pressure is normal, their oral microbiome is improved, their entire oral health is improved, because we’ve optimized and we’ve targeted the oral microbiome as a source to stimulate and release nitric oxide, and their blood pressure comes down. So it may be that simple. Let’s not kill the microbiome. Let’s support it. Let’s support stomach acid production. Let’s eliminate exposure to toxins in the environment, toxins in our water, and

 

Give the body what it needs, move from the body what it doesn’t need, let the body do its job and heal itself.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:34.924)

Well, you mentioned oral health and you mentioned getting off antacids, but what about adding more green leafy vegetables or vegetables as well?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (30:43.456)

Well, now think that’s certainly a viable strategy, but here’s the other problem. And we published this in 2015. It depends on the vegetables you’re eating and depends upon where you live.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (30:54.936)

I read that. a difference in celery. Is it crazy?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (30:57.952)

No, that’s right. The question was how much celery or broccoli or lettuce or spinach would one need to eat to get this magical 300 to 400 milligrams of nitrate to then fuel this pathway? so, you know, depending upon which vegetable you’re eating, which city you’re in, could be, you know, a 50-fold difference in the nitrate content from celery grown in Dallas versus New York. And then you’re assuming, and again, this is an assumption,

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (31:17.859)

Mm.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (31:26.036)

that even if you’re eating these vegetables, you have the right oral bacteria. But if you have fluoride using mouthwash, nitrate is inert. So you can eat all the vegetables you want. But if you don’t have the right bacteria, you’re going to excrete it in the kidneys. You’re going to excrete it in your feces and you’re going to excrete it in your sweat. And you get no nitric oxide benefit from it. Now, you’re going to get the benefit of other vitamins and nutrients and the fiber from the plant based diet, but you cannot get a nitric oxide benefit from that diet without the right oral microbiome.

 

and without adequate stomach acid production.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (31:59.288)

Wow. So it’s really, we have.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (32:00.864)

It was very difficult. It’s very difficult.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:03.854)

Right. Well, if you cut out the mouthwash, we say you cut out the, I haven’t had fluoride toothpaste for, you know, it’s this discussion I always get in with my dentist. There’s a new, it’s this really long word, this fluoride alternative. Have you heard of this? It’s like hydroxyapatite, some word like that.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (32:22.656)

Now, hydroxyapatite is a mineral, it’s an ingredient that they use in toothpaste to remineralize the teeth. But it’s not in the septic, it doesn’t kill the bacteria. It’s not… Yes, because the data now show that fluoride really provides zero benefit in terms of tooth remineralization. And then it’s all risk. A study published last September in 2024 revealed that fluoride can lower IQ in kids by as much as seven points.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (32:30.294)

Yes.

 

Great, so it’s a good alternative.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (32:53.14)

I mean, that’s dangerous. There should be no reason why we have fluoride in toothpaste, fluoride in drinking water anymore. Because the data clearly show it provides zero benefit. And if something provides zero benefit and it only exposes us to unnecessary risk, that’s an easy quotient and you just eliminate it. We have to get rid of it.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (33:14.124)

Wow. Wow. mean, it’s, what’s exciting about what you’re sharing with us, Doctor, is some of these, know, shifts are quite easy for people to stop buying the mouthwash.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (33:27.904)

Yeah, it’s cost savings too, right? I mean, I don’t watch a lot of TV, but sometimes if I’m in the middle, I see these commercials coming on and these companies are going, use this mouthwash because it kills 99.99 % of the bacteria in your mouth. And I’m going, here we are living in 2025, almost 2026, and these multi-billion dollar companies are bragging about destroying the microbiome. And they’re proud of it. They’re spending millions of dollars telling you…

 

that if you take this product, it’s going to kill the oral microbiome. And they think that’s a good idea. I mean, it would be humorous if it wasn’t dangerous.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:01.102)

Right.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (34:05.518)

Well, what about in whole foods and health markets? I’ve noticed a lot of shots, beat products, and it’s usually related to working out muscle growth. Nitric oxide is sort of tossed around in those contexts. Can you share a little bit about your perspective on those?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (34:26.44)

Yeah, beets are a joke. mean, beets hit the market in 2012 after the Olympic Games and beets are not nitric oxide. There’s one thing you take from this interview. Beets are not nitric oxide. And so the problem, the challenge is, and again, beets were first recognized because they have in some beets the highest concentration of inorganic nitrate. And then as we talked about, that can be converted by the oral bacteria, stomach acid, into nitric oxide.

 

But after the 2012 Olympic Games in London, when it was first recognized, most of these Olympic athletes were drinking liters and liters of beetroot juice, causing a lot of gastric distress and comfort and causing redness in their urine, redness in their feces. Then a lot of these companies, again, these companies jump on these bandwagons and start making beet products. And they call these beet, they’re everywhere. But here’s what’s happening. And I’ve tested every beet product on the market.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:07.598)

Mm.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:12.512)

Right. Everywhere.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (35:21.97)

and 99 % of them provide zero nitric oxide benefit because they don’t understand this whole process. And I’ve gone through this from the time we harvest the beets in the field to you make what’s called a high bricks concentrate. And then you take that high bricks concentrate and you have to dry it into a powder. And then you put that powder into a canister, then you sell it. Well, number one, like I showed, depending on where these

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:26.327)

Wow.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (35:49.62)

beets are grown, the soil conditions, the amount of lightning strikes a year, they may or may not have any nitrate. The other thing is most of these companies are using high pressure, high heat drying processes and nitrate is water soluble nutrients so it just comes out in the water. And you’re left with a dead beet. These are dead beets. That’s all they are. They’re dead beets that provide zero nitric oxide benefit. And then some people are putting beets in a capsule, they’re putting beets in

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (35:55.725)

Right.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:06.242)

Mmm.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:14.392)

That’s crazy.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (36:18.206)

gummies and chews and all these form factors and they provide no nitric oxide benefit. mean but consumers are buying them. I mean you see the commercials on the TV obviously people are buying them because these companies have enough money to keep running the ads and run the commercials. But again it’s a dangerous proposition because people email me all the time because they’ll hear this I’ll get emails. go you were talking to Kim you talk about nitric oxide but I’ve been taking a beat product for

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (36:41.611)

Yes.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (36:46.802)

a year, I bought it on TV, it hasn’t improved my blood pressure, my sexual function, I don’t feel better. So nitric oxide doesn’t work for me. And I go, no, that’s a very dangerous interpretation because nitric oxide always works. What doesn’t work for you is that product. What doesn’t work for you is that company that’s deceiving you and defrauding anybody who listens to those commercials because it’s not providing nitric oxide. And that’s a problem and that’s why these companies

 

are not only irresponsible, but they have to stop and do the right thing, because it could kill the entire industry. You start to develop drug therapy, and then you’ve got people on FDA committees and steering committees, and they say, well, beats have been on the market for nitric oxide. They don’t work. They don’t provide benefits. So these drugs can’t work, because nitric oxide doesn’t work. And nitric oxide is the future of medicine.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (37:22.241)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (37:41.97)

And we have to overcome these irresponsible companies that are out there giving misinformation because they don’t understand the science. And if you don’t understand how the human body makes nitric oxide, if you don’t understand what leads to a loss of its natural production, then please stop making so-called nitric oxide products. You do not have the background, the pedigree, or the science understanding to be putting forth products to address a very complicated disorder. You know, the brightest minds in the world.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (37:49.581)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (38:11.236)

every scientist from Pfizer, Merck, Bayer, GSK, top academic institutions in the world, and they failed to deliver a bioactive, a safe and effective nitric oxide drug. So then these insurance salesmen come along, these tech executives think they can throw all these ingredients in a bag and they’ve suddenly made nitric oxide. As a vision from God, they have no idea about biochemistry, but yet they put these ingredients together and wow, it makes nitric oxide. I mean,

 

It makes no sense, but it’s going to get worse because as we continue to bring awareness around nitric oxide, other companies are going to jump in, say they can make nitric oxide, but they don’t have the science background to even know what it is. I mean, they’d have a hard time spelling it out.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (38:56.716)

Right. Well, let’s say for the average person who maybe doesn’t have these symptoms yet, doctor, they’re sexually healthy and their blood pressure is normal and they say, okay, I can work on my oral health and my stomach acid. I’m not taking in acids. I’m eating vegetables. Do you still think that there’s products or is there supplementation that you would recommend or is that more if we feel that we are

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (38:58.464)

You

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (39:26.2)

deficient for some reason or medical cases, specific disorders.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (39:29.344)

You know?

 

Now look, if we lived in utopia, in an ideal world where we got all the nutrients we needed from the foods and we weren’t exposed to toxins in an everyday environment, then there would be no need for any supplementation, right? The body would have what it needs. There’s no toxins that’s interrupting normal metabolism or biochemistry, and we wouldn’t need to supplement. But unfortunately, that’s not the case. If we look at data at food grown in America from the 1940s to the 2010s on the same farmlands,

 

There’s a 76 % reduction in the basic micro and macro nutrients in the same soil, grown in the same US farmland from the 1940s to the 2010s. So we become a nutrient deficient society. So, you know, I’m a big proponent of getting micronutrient analysis to figure out what are you deficient in? And then supplement what’s missing and understand, is it a fat soluble nutrient? Is it water soluble nutrient? How is it absorbed? Is it bioavailable? And then supplement accordingly.

 

But to answer your question on nitric oxide, if you have a good oral microbiome, if you’re drinking good clean water free of toxicants, if you’re not exposed to 5G and you’re getting exercise, 20, 30 minutes of exercise a day, 20, 30 minutes of sunlight, usually that’s adequate to maintain optimal nitric oxide production. But the problem is most people are exposed to 5G. There’s herbicides, pesticides on the foods we’re eating.

 

that disrupt the microbiome that shuts down the enzymatic production of nitric oxide. So I think the safe bet, and this is what again, it works for me. This is what I do. I take my nitric oxide product every day and I’ve been taking a form of it for probably more than 20 years when I first understood the importance of this because I think it’s important that we maintain adequate nitric oxide production even in the face of, you know, disruption. And that’s what’s different than

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (41:24.384)

from what we do from all these other companies out there, we make nitric oxide gas. So if your body can’t make it, we provide it for you. But we’re also, we understand that we can restore the function of the enzyme, we’re restoring the oral microbiome. And so if your body can’t make nitric oxide, we provide it for you. And we’re improving your body’s natural ability to make it on its own.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (41:45.526)

That’s great. I love that. And also educating about why L-Arginine and other potential supplements that we’ve been told to buy can be actually harmful.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (41:55.21)

Yep. No, but I think that’s it. mean, if people, the take home message from our conversation is people need to understand what nitric oxide is, but also understand what nitric oxide isn’t. And then also understand what they’re doing on a daily basis that may be disrupting the natural production of this molecule. And once, it’s a very complex science, but I think that it’s a very simple message and a very simple solution. And I think that’s what I hope people can go home with is

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:06.446)

Right.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (42:23.454)

You know, stop using mouthwash, get rid of fluoride, start exercising, do intermittent fasting, go out in the sunlight, at least 30 minutes of direct sunlight a day. And most of the time, it’s really that simple. And your body is going to reward you for it. You’re going to feel better. You’re going to look better.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:26.285)

Yeah.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (42:39.244)

What would I love about your book and your work, Doctor, is it is, you know, I love reading the science. I love reading the stories, but when it comes down to the lifestyle habits that you’re recommending, it’s like, you know, lot of like the Blue Zones, you know, recommendation, very simple, very natural, very doable. But I just think it’s fascinating for people to really understand this molecule because a lot of us, Doctor, hear about it like, again, with the beats.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (42:54.688)

That’s it.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (43:08.896)

and these products instead of something that your body can naturally produce that will sustain you through so many different levels of aspects of your health. there’s a section you put, why should we care about nitric oxide? And you spell it out.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (43:22.56)

Yeah. Well, you know, I think, you know, as we advance the science and we learn more about this molecule and how it’s produced and how we can optimize it and then develop it into drug therapy, where then physicians can now have a, you know, a tool in their toolbox where they can write a script for a nitric oxide active drug that’s going to dilate the blood vessels, that’s going to make patients better without any side effects. Because when we understand this concept of nitric oxide,

 

it’s not a so-called drugable target because most drugs on the market are synthetic compounds that inhibit a biochemical reaction. Because in medicine, you look at things, okay, well, if we’re overproducing cholesterol, then let’s create a blocker for endogenous cholesterol synthesis. And so we have statin drugs that inhibit cholesterol production. But there’s never a condition where there’s an overproduction of nitric oxide. So all the clinical studies using nitric oxide inhibitors

 

have failed. Well, I say they failed. They didn’t fail. They did their job. What happened was the patients got worse. So you can’t make an inhibitor of nitric oxide as a drug therapy because we know inhibiting nitric oxide production is a very bad idea and it kills people. So the challenge is how do we restore and recapitulate nitric oxide production and signaling? And that’s the nut that I’ve cracked through my 20 years of research and discoveries and innovation is we’re providing a source of nitric oxide.

 

and it’s hormone replacement therapy. So when postmenopausal women, they’re deficient in estrogen, we give them estrogen. And man, if you’re deficient in testosterone, we give them testosterone. We’re not giving them precursors and substrates and hoping their body can make estrogen and testosterone. People would laugh at you. And that’s why people should laugh at these companies trying to give you precursors and substrates trying to make nitric oxide because the reason for your deficiency is you cannot utilize that anymore. The system is broken.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (45:06.627)

Thanks.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (45:18.27)

And until you fix the system, your body’s not able to do it. And that’s what we’ve been able to do. We fix the system. And now we’re developing this as drug therapy. We’ve got a drug for heart disease, Alzheimer’s, and topical drug for diabetic ulcers. So as we advance these through and they’re approved by the FDA and we have safe and effective nitric oxide drugs on the market, then the awareness around nitric oxide is going to escalate and everybody’s going to know what this molecule is and hopefully pay more attention to it.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (45:42.318)

ever.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (45:47.362)

Doctor, could you explain in the future how nitric oxide based medicine could help with soft plaque? Like we were talking about the beginning of the show, unstable soft

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (45:56.512)

When you look at the onset and progression of cardiovascular disease, we call atherosclerosis, the first step is loss of nitric oxide production. When you lose the production of nitric oxide, you get an upregulation of adhesion molecules in lining of the blood vessels. So monocytes, neutrophils, fat, stick, and then they’re transported across the endothelium into the intima. And you get smooth muscle hyperplasia, you get intima media thickness, and you can look at this through an ultrasound.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (46:20.833)

Okay.

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (46:26.42)

and you start to see an occlusion or narrowing of the blood vessels. And so that over time, you know, if it’s stable plaque, you’ll have calcium deposition and it’s calcified plaque. But that plaque is hard, it’s not going to rupture. But as you start to get lipid oxidation and upregulation of myeloperoxidase, inflammation, so if you get an acute infection like a flu-like illness or a bacterial infection and you get cytokines and upregulation of LPS,

 

You’re going to exacerbate that inflammation and that plaque could actually rupture. And then when it ruptures, it’s going to throw a thrombus. That thrombus is going to cause an occlusion in the coronary arteries or in the cerebral arteries. And then you’ve got a myocardial infarction or get an ischemic stroke. But it’s the rupture of the plaque that causes the problem. know, 50 % of the people who die from sudden cardiac death have less than 50 % occlusion of the coronary artery.

 

but they’ve got a small occlusion, but it’s vulnerable soft plaque that ruptures and then shuts off blood supply to the heart. And that’s their first sign and symptom of vascular disease is sudden cardiac death. I mean, we understand this process now to where we have to be able to translate the basic science and the understanding of this into medicine.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:23.298)

Right.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:34.508)

you

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (47:44.098)

Wow. Well, thank you so much, Doctor, for sharing some of your wisdom. It’s really fascinating. I think there’s so much incredible information in your book, once again, called The Secret of Nitric Oxide, Bringing the Science to Life. Doctor, can you share with us where we can, of course, get your book, where we can learn more about you and your work?

 

Dr Nathan S Bryan (48:04.928)

Sure. Well, the book is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or you can go to nathansbook.com. There’s a link there that’ll take you to it. I encourage people to subscribe to my YouTube channel. We’ve got a very active community there. I’m putting out content on the science and kind of the practical applications of nitric oxide, and it’s Dr. Nathan S. Bryan, nitric oxide. I’m on Instagram, Dr. Nathan S. Bryan, LinkedIn, same handle. Twitter, or X, I’m Dr. Nitrik.

 

And then for those interested in our product technology, it’s n101.com. That’s the letter N, number one, letter O, number one.

 

Solluna By Kimberly Snyder (48:42.432)

Amazing. Well, thank you again so much, doctor. And thank you everyone so much for tuning in. We will have direct links on our show notes at mysaluna.com, right to Dr. Nathan’s book and all of his work and his sites and his links. I would also encourage you to please share this episode with anyone that you think would benefit. I know just having gone through the scan and looking at things with my dad, I just think this information is amazing and life-saving. So please.

 

Pass this episode on to friends, colleagues, family members. It’s important that we all share how we can help support each other. Otherwise, I’ll see you on social as well at underscore Kimberly Snyder. And we’ll be back here next week for our next episode. Till then, take great care of yourself and sending you so much love.