How To Set Healthy Boundaries in Modern Friendships with Erin Falconer [Episode #667]

This week’s topic is: How To Set Healthy Boundaries in Modern Friendships with Erin Falconer

I am so excited to have my very special guest, Erin Falconer, who is an author, psychotherapist and digital entrepreneur.  Listen in as Erin shares why it’s important to assess your friendships, when to let go or let in a friendship, how to repair your friendships, and attributes for being a better friend, and so much more!

[BULLETS]

• Expectations in friendships and when they go in different directions…
• Standing in your truth with love and boundaries…
• The litmus test and assessing your friendships…
• Whether to let in a new friendship or not…
• Boundaries and managing your friendships…
• When to repair a friendship…
• Finding balance in your friendships…
• Attributes of being a better friend…

[FEATURED GUESTS]

About Erin Falconer 

Erin Falconer is the author of How to Break Up With Your Friends, as well as a digital entrepreneur and Psychotherapist. Since 2008, she has been the editor-in-chief and co-owner of PickTheBrain. Erin has been heralded as one of the most influential female voices online and is also the co-founder of LEAFtv, a video lifestyle brand for the Millennial woman.

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[❤️ FAN OF THE WEEK]

Erin Falconer’s Interview

• Erin’s Website 
• Pick The Brain Website
• Erin’s Book

Other Podcasts you may enjoy!:

• Creating Healthy Boundaries to Protect Your Energy with John Pisani
• Setting Healthy Boundaries
• How to Build Healthy Relationships and Effective Online Dating with Damona Hoffman
• Tips for Healthy Communication to Reduce Stress

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Transcript:

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

Kimberly (00:02): Hi Beauty. And welcome back for our Monday interview podcast. We have a very special guest for you today. Her name is Erin Falconer and she’s an author, digital entrepreneur and psychotherapist. She has a new book out called, How To Break Up with Your Friends, and it’s such an interesting to topic. We get so many questions here about healthy boundaries and friendships and things like that. And Erin is actually putting language to how to create healthy friendships, how to let go of friendships that can be potentially draining or toxic or may have started out in a good place, but maybe have ended up in a disconnected place. And so we talk about some real world friendship stuff, and I think this is so important for our lifestyle because everything is interconnected so we can take care of ourselves. We may eat well. Um, but if we have draining friendships, our emotional wellbeing, our mental health can potentially really suffer, which of course has a physical effect on things like our stress hormones and our nervous system.

Fan of the Week

Kimberly (01:10): So everything is really interrelated. And I think this is just a really important topic for us to get into today. But before we do, I wanna give a quick shout out to our fan of the week and her knee name is megandwillow, and she writes, I love this podcast. I absolutely look forward to my jogging or walking time when I can listen to this podcast. I follow along weekly and I love the topics and the genuine energy. Kimberly brings to answer questions or contributing to a guest speaker. Thank you, megandwillow, Thank you my love for being part of our community. Thank you so much for leaving us a review. If you can see me now, my hands are on my heart. I take that in very much. Your words, uh, just is so wonderful to hear and also just supporting us energetically you. Thank you. My love my sister from the bottom of my heart.

Leave a Review on iTunes

Kimberly (02:09): And for any of you listening, that also wants to be shouted out as the fan of the week. I would love to read your beautiful words as well, and I would just love to also have your support for this podcast to keep it going, to keep it free and accessible to all. So, uh, leave us a review please. On iTunes, it could literally be one sentence long or wherever you listen to podcasts and it’s such an incredible support. So thank you in advance. Please be also sure to subscribe to our podcast. So you stay on the flow and also please be sure to pass on the podcast to anyone that you think would benefit. We are here to support each other in life, brothers and sisters. And so anything anyone that you think would benefit from the show could be a coworker, family member, colleague, whatever, please be sure to pass it on, you know, pass the love on.

Get Your Copy Of YOU ARE MORE

Kimberly (02:59): So thank you again so much. Our last little announcement here before we get into our interview is that our new book is out. If you hadn’t, if you aren’t yet aware, it’s called you are more than You Are More More Than You Think You Are – Practical Enlightenment For Everyday Life. It is my playbook for learning how to remove blocks that hold you back emotional blocks, limiting beliefs, and start to embody more of your full potential. And then the third part is learning to create with that potential, how you create your best stuff, how you create true success in your life, how you increase your vitality and your confidence. So I can’t wait for you to check it out. It’s based on ancient teachings from the VA DIC from the VA, DIC from the vadas VA DIC knowledge combined with modern science and, uh, personal stories.

Kimberly (03:52): So I think you’ll enjoy it very much, especially if you’re part of our podcast community here. So please be sure to check it out. Wherever books are sold. All right, all that being said, let’s get into our interview today with a wonderful Erin Falconer

Interview with Erin Falconer

Kimberly:                      00:00                Oh, Erin. I’m so glad you’re here in my home. Thank you for making it up to the mountains.

Erin:                             00:04                Oh my it’s absolutely beautiful up here. Thank you for inviting me.

Kimberly:                      00:07                Well, now things are opening up. It’s nice to have guests in person again.

Erin:                             00:11                Yes, totally. What a difference?

We discuss friendships and relationships and setting healthy boundaries

Kimberly:                      00:14                Well, it’s so nice to be with you. We have been, um, we have some mutual friends, so we’ve been at some gathering, right. And around our children, I think is Georgie three, four he’s four. Okay. So we have some, um, EE is five park, you know, some of our friends in our group. Um, and then we ran in, we see each other at events. Yes. And so then I said, oh my gosh, Erin has this new book out called how to break up with your friends. And I thought, how perfect, because we get so much, we have so much conversation on our podcasts about boundaries. Right. And really nurturing ourselves. Right. Because I feel like there’s so much guilt in saying, no, there’s so much guilt in, um, navigating scheduling. So this is a really important topic, right?

Erin:                             00:58                Yeah. I, I think so. I mean,

Kimberly:                      01:01                A lot of energy can go out, right. If we don’t want manage it.

Erin:                             01:04                Absolutely. If we don’t have eyes on it. And I think that’s one of the things for me is that I kind of had this epiphany that, you know, one day I was waiting for a friend that was chronically late, that is chronically late. And, you know, in Los Angeles that is, is, you know, it’s a big problem because people are driving much traffic. But, um, and, but as I was waiting for her, I noticed, you know, again, she was late. And then what would happen is she was, she always shows up late and then we’d spend the next 10 minutes when she arrived her detailing. Um, you know, why she was late and the big story around why she, and I’m like, I, this is such a waste of time. So anyways, as I was looking at that and outwardly, I would say, you know, we’re, we’re great friends.

Erin:                             01:47                We’re the best of friends. And yet when I looked at it, I started to realize I had all of these built up resentments and irritations. And I started to look across my whole friend group and, you know, various things would pop up. I would feel indifferent in a way to certain friends. And then, you know, feel like I missed certain friends, even though I was in an actively, in a friendship with them. And the epiphany I had is this is the first time that I even started to look at this group of people in a way that was kind of intentional, right. Friendship. Yeah. Is like that one cat or a relationship, which we think is just kind of nice to have and should be give, give giving. Whereas if you think about a romantic relationship or a family relationship, these are like, if you say what’s the key to success, everybody is like, it takes a lot of work. And so that’s kind of ingrained in the Zeke guys around those relationships. But friendship, I felt just kind of had this realization that we have so little visibility on. Yeah. And That’s a really big problem because the flip side is that if we do have visibility, if we are intentional on making choices in these relationships, I think there’s such an unbelievably powerful untapped source of energy. Yes.

Kimberly:                      03:03                Support and support.

Erin:                             03:04                Yes. Which is now more important of course, coming out of this CR craziness of the last two years is now more important than ever.

Kimberly:                      03:12                Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for that Erin. And when you had that epiphany, was it one group of friends it’s sort of like if you break away from a whole group, I feel like it can feel a bit more daunting or was it like friends that were sort of scattered about

Erin:                             03:25                It was friends that were scattered about. And, um, the, the, I think the reason I kind of had this epiphany is I was actively searching for a follow up to my first book, which is very rooted in the female empowerment, female productivity space. And I went down a bunch of dead ends over, you know, the course of six or seven months, much to my agent’s frustration. And she’s like, what’s going on? And I, I just, I, I felt the material was retread or it wasn’t excited by it. And so it was, I, it was just kind of living within me. And I think it came up as I was waiting for this friend. And, and so I kind of went down, I kind of did a, an audit around the whole circumference of, of, of the friendships in my life. And I found that it wasn’t just one group. It was, you know, kind of this battering throughout and even the friends that I felt deeply connected to. I, again, I was like, I think that can, there’s more there even, you know, even the things that are alive and feeling good, just because I’ve never even taken the time to really look at them in any way, shape or form, you know, we’re constantly analyzing what’s going on with romantic partnerships and talking about it with our girlfriends and or anybody that’ll listen. And there we don’t, unless we’re like

Erin:                             04:43                Gossiping or, you know, being, you know,

Kimberly:                      04:46                Oh, well, unless something sort of really big happens really

Erin:                             04:48                Big. Right.

Kimberly:                      04:49                You know? So the, the title of your book, how to break up with your friends, you know, I’m, I’m going, you know, I’ve started to read your book and I’ve gone through the anatomy of a good friendship, which I wanna get into, like, how do we know our friendships are healthy, but even hearing you talk Erin of this feeling inside of me where I’m like, oh gosh, it feels so hard to break up with friends. There’s almost like this feeling that if someone’s a friend, we can’t discard them. Right. It makes us a bad person. Right. Can you speak to that guilt? Sure,

The guilt we feel when breaking up with a friend

Erin:                             05:16                Sure. And I think, you know, it is one of the most difficult things to do because they’re number one, there is no language out there to navigate conflict. Um, and what I mean by that is I’m a therapist and in the world of therapy, you know, we have couples therapy and family therapy and individual therapy. There’s nothing for friendship. And so I’m not obviously suggesting friend couples run out and seek therapy. But what that does say to me is that there no language out there in the zeitgeist, there is no kind of collectively accepted behavior in these relationships. There’s no blueprint about how to get into ones, how to get out of old ones. Yeah. And so we’re kind of just left there blind, right? And nobody’s really talking about this and that’s why hence the book. But I think we need to get comfortable saying this relationship is not working for me anymore.

Erin:                             06:08                And it’s not that the other person is bad or you are bad or even behaving badly, but just energetically it no longer serves where I, and of course the most important part of that is the self audit piece is really fundamentally understanding who you are, where you are, how you got here and where you wanna go. And once you have that information, that insight about yourself and only then I think, can you hold that up against the relationships in your life and say, okay, what serves, you know, the answers to the questions and what doesn’t and so,

Kimberly:                      06:41                Oh, interesting. Okay. So that, that’s the piece, right? That’s crucial to even getting to the point of clarity.

Erin:                             06:47                Sure. You gotta start with yourself and it’s counterintuitive because this is a book about relationships, but the starting point for everything of course is the self.

Kimberly:                      06:54                Exactly. Are you speaking my language here? The true self, the true self intuition inside of you, what serves what doesn’t

Erin:                             07:01                That’s right. And UN until you’ve done that kind of self audit, and you go back to that self audit, you know, kind of habitually over the, you know, every six months or every year you are checking in with yourself, you would probably do that a lot more frequently.

Kimberly:                      07:15                You’re like six

Erin:                             07:16                Months, but you know what I mean? The broad strokes of it, um, until you are doing that in the practice of doing that, I feel like these, the people in your lives, especially friendships are, are, um, are there by, uh, coincidence or accent. You’re not fully choosing them. Right,

Kimberly:                      07:36                Right. Or they you’ve inherited them,

Erin:                             07:38                Inherited them, they’re legacy friendships, or they’re through other people or through family members or whatever. And so until you are actively making choices, choices is where all of your personal power are, you are nothing more than the choices you make in your life. Right. And so until you understand yourself and then can actively make choices, that’s the only way you can get kind of the best starting lineup around you and you for them. Right.

Kimberly:                      08:02                Right. Right.

Why is it so difficult to break up with friends

Erin:                             08:03                And so, and so when thinking about break, you know, breaking up with friends, what’s so difficult about it is that so often that it is not one big betrayal, right? It’s not like, you know, she stole my yeah. Job or my partner. It’s not, it’s, it’s very rarely that what happens is that it’s often a death by a thousand cuts in the sense that you’ve just gotten a little farther and a little farther, there’s an irritation, there’s a, you don’t address it. You don’t address it. You don’t address it. And all of a sudden you wake up one day and it like I did, and I’m sitting there for a friend that’s chronically late. And I go, are we even friends anymore? Because I have, there’s so much distance emotionally and energetically between us when I looked at it, is this even a friendship? And so and so, yeah. And that, but it’s, it’s painful. But the thing is, you have to ask yourself, am I gonna choose to stay in something and give my energy to something that does not really serve me? And therefore, if it doesn’t serve me, I can’t really serve it. Right.

Kimberly:                      09:05                It’s

Erin:                             09:05                Inauthentic

Kimberly:                      09:06                To serve. It’s, it’s, it’s unauthentic. It’s just not, it’s not nourishing anything. That’s

Erin:                             09:10                Right. And so you have to go back and choose yourself if only be able to then give the fullest of yourself to a relationship that you know, is, is deserving or worthy or fits where you are.

When friendships are there during difficult periods

Kimberly:                      09:22                Yes. Aaron, let’s put your, um, therapist hat out for a second. I wanna, I wanna, I’m gonna make, make this, um, like I wanna illustrate this with a real world situation. Okay. So I’ll use myself. Okay. So let’s say I’m doing this self assessment, right. And I’m like, here I am today. There’s a friend. There’s a friend that is here today because she came from where I was in the past. Right. And now I’m no longer this, that person. Right. So I’ll be, I’ll get real real here. Okay. There was this, there was a, a, you know, someone, a girl that I became really close to when I, uh, broke up with like my last relationship. And I was a single mom with my older son for a while. And she was really there for me. And we would hang out, we would hang out a lot and things.

Kimberly:                      10:04                But now a few years later, I start to notice we’re in a different place. Like you were saying, just goes to, it’s like two branches of a tree. Right. And I start to notice she’s, you know, maybe a bit narcissistic she’s needy. She, you know, she was there for me, but then I reflect back. She would spend time with me. But a lot of time she was talking about herself too. Right. So anyways, so there’s this guilt because I say, oh, she was there for me, but here I am today. So what I have done is she keeps asking me to do stuff. And I keep saying like, I’m busy, I’m busy. And so there’s the, like this guilt. Totally. And so she was there, but she’s not there today. So what do you do if someone was with you for a difficult period,

Erin:                             10:43                Right? Well, so the first thing you wanna kind of check in with is, okay, so she’s there with you for a difficult period right now. Sh is it something that is, did in her behavior with you, or you are noticing that she has always kind of been like this

Kimberly:                      11:03                I’ve noticed she’s always been like this it’s me. That’s grown out of that really vulnerable period.

Erin:                             11:07                Yeah. That’s the thing you wanna really be careful of when looking at friendships, you wanna set, ask yourself number one, are they there and really rooting for you and supporting you when doing well? Because we see a lot of behavior around that when somebody has success and all of a sudden the per you know, that the other friend is very quiet, very kind of passive, aggressive making little comments, or just not there, not showing up in a way that matches your accomplishments or your success. The other thing you wanna be very careful of is if you’re going through something really bad or dark, and you have a friend that on the surface feels like she’s really there for you, but when you dig a little deeper, is there and wallowing with you and kind of wants to not necessarily overtly keep you there. Right. But feels really comfortable and aligns with you when you are in a dark place.

Expectations in a friendship and when they go in different directions

Erin:                             12:02                Yeah. And it sounds like to me, this person was kind of aligning with you in a sense when you were going through stuff. And that was her comfort zone in the relationship. And now that are out of the clearly out of the darkness and thriving, she does, she wants to get back to that place. Not necessarily by dragging you back there, but that’s where she feels comfortable being with you. And so, so I get the question a lot. Okay. I’ve been friends with somebody forever. Yes. And we’ve grown upon, do I have to have the conversation with them? Right. Does it to be a confrontation? Does it have to be a conversation, a confrontation? And I say this, it doesn’t, if you’re both kind of on the same page and floating in different directions, in other words, naturally, your NA there’s a natural thing. But where I think it becomes really, uh, troublesome is when the expect are not the same.

Erin:                             12:54                And one person is reaching out and reaching out and wants to make a plan. Like, it sounds like you are and the other, no, sorry. Like she is, and you are the person that’s like, I just can’t, I don’t wanna do this. I don’t wanna be hurtful. I don’t wanna hurtful. I don’t wanna be hurtful, but what’s happening is you are spinning your wheels. You are using your energy, you are feeling bad and that is brought into all you do. Whether, you know, I’m sure you know it, but we, most people do not know that it’s very hard to compartmentalize bad or good energy. Yeah. The, it runs run through you. Right. So even if it’s a minimal impact on your life, it’s still an impact on your life. That’s number one, number two, we feel bad because we don’t wanna hurt. Somebody feel hurt.

Erin:                             13:34                So some of these feelings or end something. Right. However, how do you think that person that keeps getting rejected when she asks you for plans? Feels, yeah. Again, it’s not probably some huge blow, but cumulatively she’s gotta feel a sense of rejection. Right? Right. And that’s, it’s over and over again, being told new. And so if our fear is that we’re making we to make the other Fe person feel bad by se telling them like, listen, it’s just, I don’t have a bandwidth. I love and respect our time together. But that’s out of that love and respect that. I’ve gotta be honest with you. I just don’t have the bandwidth. I’ve got, you know, my family, my work, my whatever. And I feel like I’m letting you down because I don’t have the capacity to hang out with you. And so I just, I’d rather be honest and say that.

Erin:                             14:16                Yeah. So that we don’t keep spinning our wheels, um, that I think long term is gonna, is gonna hurt less. It’s gonna sting more up front for her and it’s gonna be more difficult for you just to say it that’s a, that’s a courageous message to kind of yeah. Share. But it, I think because you, I do hear that you did have a good and warm experience with her. Yes. Right? Yes. So that’s what you wanna remember and what’s gonna happen if you keep going on, is, is the irritation and the guilt, and that that’s gonna end up being the dominant memory of this relationship. Yes. If, if we, if you keep bring, you

Kimberly:                      14:52                Know, it gets the watered down, it gets

Erin:                             14:54                Worse, the good stuff gets very watered down. And, and, and so you have an opportunity there to have this still as a great memory of friendship, somebody that cared for you, um, and helped you through a dark time, what an, what an amazing memory to have, as opposed to, you know, two years later, how do I get out of this? This girl’s driving me nuts. Won’t she get a hint? Won’t she take a hint, you know? And then it turns into kind of like irritation. And so in this case, I think it’s better to have,

Kimberly:                      15:25                Be honest,

Erin:                             15:25                Be honest, and just say, I feel like I’m hurting your feelings. I, I, and I understand I, I get it, but I just, and you know, it’s out of love and respect that I have to communicate, you know, just kind of what I said before.

Kimberly:                      15:37                There’s another, there’s another fear in here, Erin, which is like, we know some mutual friends,

Erin:                             15:42                Right. This is tricky. Okay.

Standing in your truth with love and boundaries

Kimberly:                      15:44                So then the fear is like, she runs to her friends and she’s like, oh, she broke up with me. Or she was mean, right. Do it, you know, is that something we could cause do you stand in your truth? Right. That, you know, stand in your light it’s you can do it. You can do things. You can communicate in a loving right. But firm way. Yeah. With boundaries. But you know, we worry about other sure. It’s like back to school, like groups of friends. Right,

Erin:                             16:06                Right. We’re well, we’re, we’re definitely socially, you know, interconnected. And so, and we do one thing, especially within a group of friends, there can be a ripple effect and you know, somebody, some friends may take the attitude. Oh, was it really so difficult for her to just tolerate this other person? It would’ve been nicer, a kinder, but that’s not really true. Yeah. That’s making them feel comfortable and they’ve got their own things that they need to, you know, which is, which is difficult and hard to say, but that’s just the truth. And if you really decide, you wanna stand in your truth, it can’t be part-time. And so you wanna model behavior. And even though there might be R ripples and there might be a little bit of backlash, um, if there’s a lot of backlash, then you gotta look at this friend group and say, is this really the friend group

Kimberly:                      16:50                From you? Exactly. Exactly. But

Erin:                             16:51                Sure. Expect to have a little, little ripple, exact have way. But I think if you can model this, you come out even stronger from a, a greater sense of respect and that’s not why you do it. But I think that that ultimately is the consequence. If you are really operating, if you are being respectful and loving in delivering that message to yeah. Um, to the, to the old friend, the, I don’t wanna say ex-friend, but you know what I’m saying? Like

Kimberly:                      17:19                Yes.

Erin:                             17:19                From a previous version of yourself.

Kimberly:                      17:21                Yeah. And you know, back to, you know, you, you, you wanna be in truth all of the time. Right. Um, so if we do it in a way that you can feel good about, you can feel yeah. You know, that you were authentic and loving. Yeah. I think that is better.

Erin:                             17:33                Yeah. I mean, because the, the, the flip side of it is like, you’re gonna get a bad rap anyways, in a sense, because if you just keep denying, you know, then that friend is probably gonna say, Hey, what’s up, Hey, you know, what’s up with Kimberly, you know? And then it starts to seep in somehow, you know what I mean? And so you wanna have again, make a choice around it as opposed to then reacting to something that kind of seeps out into the ether.

Kimberly:                      17:57                Yes. Yes. It’s clear. It’s

Erin:                             17:59                Clear and it’s you own it and you take the responsibility for it again, lovingly and with respect, obviously. Yeah. That I hope goes without saying, but that’s the power position.

Kimberly:                      18:10                I love it. Let’s go back to the self-assessment for a moment, Erin, and you talked about goals and where we are today. So do you believe friend, friends and friendship should support and nourish your goals?

Friendships, support and nourishing your goals

Erin:                             18:23                Yeah, I think so. Well, I think they can, and I think it’s hard because You don’t wanna it to seem so calculated. Right. Right. When you’re talking about a relationship

Kimberly:                      18:33                Like interviewing people, like on a

Erin:                             18:34                Resume exactly. You don’t, you don’t want. And, but I, and I, so I went back and forth on a lot of different parts of this book being like, God, does this feel like I’m like a machine, you know, being so calculate. And the, I think that the only reason that it feels like that is we’ve just never done it before. If you think again about, um, romantic partnerships or even family, we are Very clear or we sh, or we that’s, the goal is to get very clear yeah. On what we will and what, what

Kimberly:                      19:02                We won won’t and the deal, breakers, the

Erin:                             19:03                Deal breakers, what we need, what we are, non-negotiables, you know, our bread flags, all of this stuff is so mapped out, but it’s just that it’s out there in the Zeit guys. And we’re so used to doing it. We’re constantly practicing it, that it doesn’t feel like a calculation. It feels like I’m putting my priorities, you know, out, out there and I’m going to try and get matches. Right. Yeah. And I, I don’t think that friendships should be any different in a way, obviously the nature of a romance relationship is a lot more serious, um, in a sense, because you’re literally signing contracts to be with, to be with somebody for the rest of your life and there’s money involved in all and, and fit children. But I think the same principles apply. Yeah. And that it’s putting your needs, your wants your desires, as clear as you can and saying, you know, who, who, who fills

Kimberly:                      19:54                Yeah.

Erin:                             19:55                Who fills these things up and, and, and, you know, and, and also do I serve the relationship all in the same way, reciprocally, right?

Kimberly:                      20:04                Yes, exactly. For me, Erin, it’s like a feeling, right. It’s like intuition, it’s energy, which, you know, the language I talk in a lot. We’re just like, when I leave someone’s space or I’m, I’m, you know, sometimes you, huh? What is that? I feel really drained and depleted or I feel supported.

The litmus test and assessing your friendships

Erin:                             20:20                Right? Yeah. I have, I have, um, so I have a litmus test that, that I talk about all the time. And it’s when your phone rings and you see a name on the call display, what’s your gut reaction? Is it, or are you jump? Are you, are you jumping to pick up the phone? Right? Are you like,

Kimberly:                      20:36                Oh God, God, the Texas person back.

Erin:                             20:38                Oh, oh my God. You know, this is really good information. And we just skate over it all the time. And so in the book, I just talk

Kimberly:                      20:43                About excellent. Yeah.

Erin:                             20:45                Talk about the simplest thing, a P a pen and paper, uh, write down the names of everybody kind of in your inner circle and like medium circle, kind of the, the people that you orbit with with frequency and just watch your reaction as you see their name, as you’re writing their name down, just that instinct, that gut reaction, how do you feel? This is great. Great. And for, and I guarantee you will feel irritated or frustrated by some people you will feel joy yes. By some people. And, but perhaps the worst category is feeling nothing. Mm. Because the people that you feel irritated by at least there’s something energetically to work with. I feel like, and it might not end up, you know, that that person stays long term, but it’s the person that you feel nothing for. Because I believe you’re either giving energy or taking energy. There is no right there, there’s no neutral. And so the people that you have that are flat for you are almost more concerning to me than the people that you’re like, oh God, because at least there’s something energetically there that you’re like, you’re, you’re interacting with. Even if it’s

Kimberly:                      21:50                Negative. Interesting. So you can be with a neutral, it’s almost like you’re just wasting your time.

Erin:                             21:55                Yes. That’s what I

Kimberly:                      21:56                Mean, passing time. Yeah. It’s not inspiring. You

Erin:                             21:58                That’s, and that takes energy. There is no net neutral with energy you’re yes. Somebody’s either giving you energy or taking it, but it, at least with something negative, actively taking it, as opposed to just draining it,

Kimberly:                      22:10                You know? Yeah. Oh, wow. So how often should we do that? Um, oh, you said six months to sort of do a self-assessment and friend assessment.

Erin:                             22:19                Yeah. And of course, and of course you’re not gonna be like rid yourself of friends. I mean, I think I say in the two, the, the second or third line of this book, this book is not about going through your content with a machete. Right. It’s just getting very clear on the landscape of your life and, and specifically in terms of friends, but yeah. I mean, I think you wanna do kind of a big kind of reckoning, you know, it’s like the big, okay. Who, okay, let me sit. I’ve never done this before. Let me sit down and really kind of get down to bras tacks about who’s operating in my world, who I’m allowing in my world and they, and they, I, um, and then you wanna do a checkup, you know, like every year, six, six months to a year, you don’t have to be, you know, like, you know, it’s not like, but

Kimberly:                      23:06                Don’t wanna, yet

Erin:                             23:06                You do wanna, and especially you wanna do that. If you’ve gone through any kind of life change, if you are having a kid for the first time, if you just got married, if you’re starting a new career, like these are kind of major shifts in how you are operating in the world as an individual after, after a certain amount of time living in that new space, you might wanna check in with yourself and say, okay. Yes. You know, and, and also just not necessarily take me be out of your life, but kind of to rearrange them, like, okay, I might, let’s say I’m a new mom, all of a sudden your needs

Kimberly:                      23:36                Priorities. Yes.

Erin:                             23:37                Very different than just six months before. Yeah.

Kimberly:                      23:40                You know, extreme, you’re other new moms,

Erin:                             23:43                Very different place, right? Yes. And so it’s not that you’re gonna take, of course, you’re not gonna take your friends that don’t have children out that is AB absolutely not. Right. Or not all of them. Um, but,

Kimberly:                      23:54                But you’ll spend less time with them.

Erin:                             23:55                Right. And I think just being intentional and, and conscious about, okay, this is where I’m at these, this is what I need. I’m, I’m will be spending more time with this, these people and a little less, and I’m okay with that. You know what I mean? Just being, Putting it to the front of mind. So you’re being active in those choices. I think energetically does a lot for those relationships without having to do anything more than that.

Whether to let in a new friendship or not

Kimberly:                      24:18                Yes. And I also think that your book is very helpful in terms of like, as you’re talking, I’m think it also sort of lays the ground for, um, letting people in or not like new friends. Right, right. Oh, absolutely. So now I really important. This is a big one for me and I, you know, I come across people all the time and then I start, you know, let’s hang out let’s da, da. Yeah. And I’m like, Hmm, I don’t really want,

Erin:                             24:42                I know. I, oh, I’m exactly. You know what I extremely,

Kimberly:                      24:47                Yes. So it’s not that I’m close to everybody, but you know, I can tell who I wanna come in and out, but then it’s just like, you know, I don’t know them that well, so it’s sort of deflecting a bit. Right. But they’re not coming in. Right. And I’m clear about that. Sure. You know, in a loving way. Yeah. Yes.

Erin:                             25:01                And, well, I think that’s really important because I see all the time, people that say yes to everything, right. And somebody says, I wanna be your friend, or I wanna have a, I mean, I wanna have drinks. And they’re like, yes, yes, yes. And this is not self protecting at all. Right.

Kimberly:                      25:14                Yeah. Again,

Erin:                             25:15                You’re just reacting. You’re letting life happen to you as opposed to making choices. And so you have to be very protective of don’t just say, yeah, the invitation is not enough of a motivation. Right. You really have to, you have to feel intuitively like you wanna connect with this person. And if you don’t then stop saying yes, when you mean no, and do it with respect and grace. Yes. But the good thing about this is this is hard work front. And I think you probably would, would agree with this because this is hard work upfront. Right. Positioning yourself energetically to say no, right. It is hard to do this.

Kimberly:                      25:51                Yeah.

Erin:                             25:52                But once you practice this, what starts to happen or at least in my experiences, people just understand that, that they’re not gonna come to you in that way. Right. And I started this conversation in the first book very much about what happens in your, in the workplace, but it is true across it’s like when you, on, when you practice enough respecting, you know, your energy and saying no, when you mean no, yes. And not. Yes. When you mean no something catalyzes, something happens that all of a sudden you start getting less requests that you don’t want. There’s just something

Kimberly:                      26:24                That

Erin:                             26:25                You’re putting out there without even having to say no, that people underst it was really great to meet her, but I’m definitely not gonna ask her to have coffee. I feel like it’s a dead end in a good, in

Kimberly:                      26:35                A good way.

Erin:                             26:36                Like this is energetically. You’ve met my boundary without us even having to communicate it.

Boundaries and managing your friendships

Kimberly:                      26:42                This is what I really wanna talk about boundaries. Cause this is such a powerful tool. I know you have a whole section in here. I was reading earlier about boundaries, which I think can be really tricky for people, because like you said, we’re not really taught about, you know, breaking up with friends or, or managing our friendships. Um, and so it’s, it’s a new skill,

Erin:                             26:58                Right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It’s a new skill in, that’s really a new skill. I feel like for women because, um, you know, when I looked at my male, uh, friendships, it was, so it was so much clear. Like if I didn’t wanna do something, I would just say no. Or if I was irritated or mad, I would just say, Hey, what? That was so not cool. Why did you do that? And we just talk it out real time on this, but it would be done done, right?

Kimberly:                      27:24                Yes.

Erin:                             27:25                Not the

Kimberly:                      27:26                Same, not complicated,

Erin:                             27:27                Not the same experience when I’m with my female, female friends. Right. And so it is a lot of work you have to practice saying no, and of course I don’t wanna beat a dead horse, but it starts with you. You’ve gotta understand what your own boundaries are before you can communicate them to somebody else. So taking the time to really understand this is I will not do this. This is I, I, I need this from somebody that’s the first starting point, a really understanding, you know, your non-negotiables, um, and then you have to get comfortable saying them and enforcing them. And the good thing is, is that, you know, friends, this is probably the warmest space. You can practice this. Right. You know, when you think about going out and trying to say no, when you, I mean, say, yeah, say no, when you mean like,

Kimberly:                      28:19                So yes. When you mean no. Yeah,

Erin:                             28:20                Exactly. In like the workplace that’s really kind of unsafe and you know, your job is potentially on the line when you’re doing this, when you’re doing it with family, it has the potential to be pretty explosive, right? Yes. So the good news is, is that in general, a friend space is the warmest and less risky to start practicing these things, but it just takes practice. And so if somebody is constantly showing up late and it’s like a habitual problem, as opposed to the person is just going through a life, you know? Yeah. It’s

Kimberly:                      28:55                Just so disrespectful

Erin:                             28:56                All time. And so, you know, I, I was amazed how often I would talk myself out of saying anything and I’m a pretty confident person and I’m, you know, kind of what, I mean, I use my voice and yet when it came to friends, like, and I did an, you know, I do an experiment in the book where I actually confront this person, the, the one that, um, kind of started the whole thing for me, I had a friend that, you know, constantly showed up late. And so, um, I watched my own behavior as I was about to have this kind of, I mean, not confrontation too strong, but kind of say what was bothering me. And it was amazing how my mind was spinning and of course she was late for that meeting for that, for that meeting. So, you know, I have an extra half an hour to spend different possibilities

Kimberly:                      29:40                In there that late, she was 30 minutes late.

Erin:                             29:42                Oh yeah.

Kimberly:                      29:42                Constantly. Oh my God. I can’t.

Erin:                             29:44                I know exactly. And yet I put up with it for so long,

Kimberly:                      29:47                But you were talking like 10, 15 minutes.

Erin:                             29:49                No, like 30 minutes lights. So I’m sitting there, you know, it’s like constantly and so bad. And as I look outside of it, and just your reaction is my own reaction, but in it, I’m kind of like, oh no, she’s driving, making

Kimberly:                      29:59                Excuses,

Erin:                             30:00                Making side. She’s a single mom. And she’s, you know, she’s got, you know, trying to do different things for work and needs to make money. And so I’m, you know, but at the end of it, I got, you know, it’s just not acceptable behavior. We both drove the same distance to get there. You know what I mean, time

Kimberly:                      30:19                Well, and happening in chronically, it’s like, we’re both busy people, you

Erin:                             30:23                Know, of course, if there’s exceptional situations, you can’t, you can’t be militant about this stuff, but you, it more often than not, the person needs to show up, you know, on time, you know? Yes. Otherwise it becomes a disrespect thing. And so I had to confront the situation and I had a whole, you know, I literally wrote down like four or five things to be like, these are the four things don’t get off the track. Don’t get off, don’t get into details. Don’t get into stories, just communicate these four things. Be very clear. Yeah.

Kimberly:                      30:54                Um, you had your plan.

Erin:                             30:55                I had my plan because what ends up happening? And again, this I didn’t wi I don’t witness this in my friendships with men is that we get it off onto different stories and, and, and details that are irrelevant to the core facts of stop showing up late. It’s disrespectful. It’s making me not wanna hang out with you. Um, and what ends up happening is you get pulled off track. If you don’t have a plan, right. Until you’ve practiced this enough. So that then it’s just like, I’m clear. I communicate. This is my problem. Let’s work through it or work out of it because I’m not gonna tolerate this anymore.

Kimberly:                      31:31                It seems like though, a lot of women who would have a problem with confrontation or struggle with saying no right. Can be, or, you know, women are met. People in general can be, you know, some of the ones that are being run over by unhealthy friendships. And then you may wake up to this and be like, Hey, you’re so negative all the time. You’re projecting, you’re dumping on me, but it’s like the softer, gentler, yeah.

Erin:                             31:53                People.

Kimberly:                      31:53                So what would you say to them?

What to say to a friend who projects and dumps on you

Erin:                             31:55                Well, I think the thing is, you know, the bottom line is you do have to, no matter what you do have to, self-advocate just have to. And so, you know, if it’s the case that you have, you need to do work on yourself. And I, whether that’s through seeing a therapist yourself, whether that’s doing meditation, whether that’s, you’ve gotta your, a yoga practice, you have to find whatever it is for you to find your own strength. Nobody can do that for you.

Kimberly:                      32:24                I it’s true. At certain point, you do have to rise up, even if it’s uncomfortable,

Erin:                             32:28                Even if it’s uncomfortable, because if you won’t help yourself, how is somebody else gonna help you? And you’re not modeling for the other people. You know, we teach people how to treat us, right? And so if you are not respecting yourself, it’s difficult for other people to respect you and not, not caring and loving people, but you know, the people that are kind of in the middle and the people that are gonna run over somebody that is softer or softer spoken, or, you know, you know, less kind of powerfully there showing up. Um, but that’s just the world we live in. And so if you can’t advocate yourself for yourself, unless you wanna move to like a, a desert island, it’s, you have to do the work so that other people see that this is a person that is doing the work on themselves, respects themselves enough to do the work on themselves. It that just that demands respect from other people.

Kimberly:                      33:21                Yes. I, I agree. And I, you know, this month in our, in our Solluna Circle, the theme is purpose, right? And as we talk about it in our community, it’s really, um, uniting your unique gifts, right. And talents with service to the whole, in some way to the, to the collective. So, um, one of the things we talked about this month, we have daily was, you know, if you’re having a, a tough time saying, no, we’re moving out of a situation, just, just remember that it means that you’re not able to serve as much, not able to give your energy to the whole you become depleted.

Erin:                             33:51                Right. What, and what, what I think is really important. And I talk a lot, a lot about this, uh, in therapy, um, is that, so you have, in my opinion, 0% chance, very, very close to 0% chance of affecting how somebody else behaves. You have a hundred

Kimberly:                      34:14                Percent,

Erin:                             34:15                Yes. A hundred percent influence on how you behave, where are you gonna spend your time? Right? And so spend your time where you have a hundred percent influence work on yourself, do the work, change what you need to change in yourself, not for somebody else for you. And then watch that rep. That is the best chance you have of somebody else changing their behavior. If you are just out there trying to say this, person’s not nice to me. They’re not, you know, they’re not hearing me. They’re not whatever it is. You you’ve zero influence in how this person is gonna, the only person people, I believe you have influence over are your children. And that is until

Kimberly:                      34:51                Seven

Erin:                             34:52                Early children. And then that’s the most important. And the most, you have to be the most careful and the most. Yes. Because your influence, there’s a hundred percent with, with, with small children, besides devoid of that, you have almost zero influence. The only thing you can do is spend your time and energy with what you have a hundred percent influence on is that is you. And that is your best chance of influencing other people. Mm

Kimberly:                      35:15                Mm. When you go through here, the anatomy of a good friendship, there’s a certain point where, you know, you’re in a romantic relationship. And like, this is true for me after a lot of clarity, you say, oh, this person is like you said, we can’t influence their behavior. We’re in a different place. Right. We’re like two ships in the night there, isn’t this connection. It’s time to break up. Right. Is there, you know, do you suggest that sometimes we try to repair yeah. The friendship, these, you know, going into these, um, maybe we go through these air cause I love the anatomy, um, the, the different attributes before we break

When to repair a friendship

Erin:                             35:46                Up. Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. So especially if you’ve had a relationship of any length of time yeah. Of consequence. Yeah. Your default move is not to get rid of them. Right. That that’s not, you don’t start with that. Like, what you wanna do is you wanna really look at the relationship, all the ways that it’s served you all the ways that it’s developed you as a person, you, and you wanna look at where the other person is now and say, you know, you wanna lead with, can this be saved? Not do I get rid of this. Right. And so, because has, it’s really hard, you know, a legacy friendship is something that if it can, if it can be saved or back on track or deepen, they’re the most, often the most impactful, because they’ve seen you as an individual in so many different phases of your life, they’ve see you in ways that a romantic partner often never will.

Erin:                             36:35                Right. Because they’ve seen you and changed. They really understand fundamentally. Right. Exactly. Um, all these different stages of you. And so you, you know, you want to try and save that if it’s saveable and what you need to look for is, as I talk about kind of the anatomy of a good friendship, you, what is missing, what has been tarnished, what can you get back to having, um, a really, you know, healthy and robust and, um, a live friendship. Um, and if only then after really the kind of thinking about it and analyzing it, is it the time to, to contemplate, um, ending the relationship? And one of the things that I talk about is really, if you are contemplating ending a friendship, especially like a, like a, a long friendship, long standing friendship is really imagine your life without this person. In, in other words, you don’t wanna be doing anything reactive when it comes standing friendships, unless somebody does something that’s just unbelievably dramatic or hurtful or unforgivable, but I we’re, you know, those are outlier

Kimberly:                      37:47                Situations, rare,

Erin:                             37:48                Rare situations. So, so really imagine your life without this person in it and sit there and think about it. And is that, how do you feel about that? Do you feel a sense of relief? Do you feel a sense of, oh, no. Longing. That’s a really good litmus test too. Like if you feel like a really great sense of relief, like whew, then yeah. Maybe that’s something you need to move out of. If you feel like, ah, you know, or there’s like heartbreak or you feel, you know, grief about it, then you wanna really investigate is this, I think this might be something to, to, to save. And then you wanna look at is what’s the level of trust? Are you showing up with vulnerability or are you only showing up with just one part of yourself because that can often be the problem. Right. So you wanna look at ex opening up the aperture, showing different parts of yourself. Yeah.

Kimberly:                      38:33                Talk, talk to me about vulnerability. Yeah. Like this is such a big term now.

Vulnerability and how you show up in friendships

Erin:                             38:37                Yeah. So one of the other epiphanies I kind of had, when I was writing this is I talk about different friendship. Uh, you know, how you show up in, in friendship. And there are kind of different types. There’s like the fixer, the nurturer, the creative friend, the, the rider died, the rock, right. The mentor ex the rock. Exactly. And so I was noticing about myself that I kind of play the role of like the, the fixer or like the, the rock. And

Kimberly:                      39:04                You’re a therapist. Exactly.

Erin:                             39:05                Naturally, exactly. Everybody comes to me. Yes. I’ve got this problem. Or I’ve got this big job interview tomorrow, or I’ve got, you know, these kind of big things that they wanna work kind of. And so I really take pride in that role, you know, I think it’s an important role to play. And, but what I realized about myself is that because of that, I was never showing up a vulner vulnerability. I was never coming when I had a problem. I was like, I’ll just

Kimberly:                      39:31                Work with myself. Yeah. Who does Erin go to?

Erin:                             39:32                Exactly. And, and that’s also kind of self-imposed though. Right. And when I looked at it, I was like, oh, I really don’t wanna ruin my kind of friendship cred. And I feel, I feel like if I show up with problems or then, then they’re gonna be like, oh, well, you know, maybe she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, or she won’t take her own advice or whatever. And of course, that’s not true. It was, this is self-imposed, this is my own narrative that I was spending. Yes. The thing that had happens is that number one, I was just scared to be a little vulnerable. Right. I totally just really worked myself into living in this persona as opposed to being a real human in these relationships. Um, and so I was very conscientious, conscientious, conscientious.

Kimberly:                      40:13                Yes.

Erin:                             40:14                I’ve, I’ve, I’ve now showing up with a broader spectrum of me. And so when I was scared about something, when I was nervous about something, I would share that. And it was unbelievable how much that opened up the connection. Yes. And I’m not leading with that. Certainly that’s not, but

Kimberly:                      40:32                You are also not hiding. There’s no armor.

Erin:                             40:35                You’re not hiding. There’s no armor. Exactly.

Kimberly:                      40:36                That’s such a different energy, different energy. This is a real person I can connect to this person. That’s

Erin:                             40:40                That’s right. And so I think the vulnerability piece is really, um,

Erin:                             40:45                Is really important also though the flip side of that is if you are somebody that is, you know, the one that always is, you know, seeking advice or needing nurturing from friends, it’s really important for you to say, Hey, I have the power also to show up strong. Yes. And to show up with the answers and to give advice when I feel like I have it, as opposed to always be the one that is taking the advice. Right. And so this is what I mean, like just really understanding how you show up in friendships. And then again, how can I open up the aperture? How can I show a different side? How can I arrive with some, a different of myself?

Kimberly:                      41:19                Yes.

Erin:                             41:20                And it’s unbelievable what it does for that relationship.

Finding balance in your friendships

Kimberly:                      41:22                Yeah. Could you talk about, you know, balance in here? And I imagine part of that is like, you know, not one person always doing the talking.

Erin:                             41:29                Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Kimberly:                      41:32                That’s, that’s so draining.

Erin:                             41:33                It is draining it to yeah. And, and I felt drained a lot also. That’s,

Kimberly:                      41:37                That’s

Erin:                             41:37                The thing, because people are coming, friends are coming to me and I take that seriously. And so, you know, I’m, you know, I’m really thinking about the problem. I’m workshopping with them. When we get off the phone, I’m still thinking about it. I’ll send a tech. Okay. I think this is the right angle. Or I think, you know, yes, this takes a lot of time, energy happy to do it, but you have to be also held, not just holding. Right? Yes,

Kimberly:                      41:58                Exactly.

Erin:                             41:59                And so it’s really important to be able to put yourself out there and allow others to hold you or to hold if you’re the one that’s usually held. And so again, that goes back to you and doing kind of understanding, you know, how, how do I show up? How does do other people show up in the various relationships? And I think it’s really important to understand that not every friend is gonna be everything and that’s not, nobody can be everything to you. Yes. A romantic partner, your family, your friends. And so that’s why it’s really important to understand what is this friend and what does this relationship give and what does this friend and relation? And that’s what I go to this friend for. And that’s what I go to this friend for as opposed to like, everybody needs to be everything, because of course, inevitably you are, you’re gonna be let down. Yes. And you’ll let people down. And so I think the clearer you can get on what every, the value proposition of every of every relationship is the better served you are.

Kimberly:                      42:59                Yes. It’s almost like your little tool walk, call exactly.

Erin:                             43:02                A lot. Exactly.

Kimberly:                      43:04                Yeah. Yeah. And I love how you, you, you know, there’s this reflective part in here where you also say, well, how, how can you be a better friend? Right, right. Absolutely. As we do this, self-assessment maybe, you know, we start to see, oh, maybe I am one of those people that right. I talk all the time or whatever it is. Totally. So what, what are some of the attributes of being a better friend? Well,

Attributes of being a better friend

Erin:                             43:21                I think this is really important in, you know, today is, is, um, group number one, just committing to the friendship. Right. And like, I was the first person back in my internet, you know, when I was running my internet company, like, I’d get a text at like 4:00 PM being like, so sorry, I have to cancel. And I’d be like,

Kimberly:                      43:43                Yes,

Erin:                             43:45                Yes. I’d like,

Kimberly:                      43:46                Oh, for like dinner,

Erin:                             43:47                Beli, you know, like canceling, no, like cancel, like I, at four o’clock away, I’d have plans for drinks with friends. Right. And they’d cancel and I’d be like, okay.

Erin:                             43:54                Yes. Like my, do you reaction the joy? I’m like, and now looking back at it, I’m like, that is just ridiculous. You know, you have to commit to these things, you can’t. Yes. You, and you don’t wanna be the one canceling all the time. And if you are canceling all the time, you need to look at that. Right. Um, cuz either that’s not the relationship for you or you are not committing to, it could be the relationship for you and you’re just not committing to it. So you have to really say, can I commit to this? And if I’m going to commit to it, I’m going to commit to it. Right. You have to show up and you have to be actively listening. It’s far better to have a half an hour, a quick coffee with somebody device free where you’re focused, not just listening to the words, but all the non-verbal cues, what is their, they’re saying one thing, how’s their energy there. Comment on that. Be active in that. That is so restorative. Um, so much more restorative than having like a three hour dinner and a loud place where everybody’s taking pictures for Instagram and scrolling on their phone. Oh God, that’s, you know, that’s the thing. Those are the things that those are your friends, but those relationships are, those moments are extremely depleting. Yes. So you need to choose, you know, active listening and um, you know, when you’re there, you’re really there. And um, you also wanna be careful that you’re showing up net net positive, right?

Kimberly:                      45:09                Yes. That’s one of the attribute, listen here, positivity.

Erin:                             45:12                It feels so good to kind of languish in the negative or the shit talking or the gossip or whatever. And of course we’re human. So we are gonna do that a little bit. Right. That’s just part of being, but you can’t live in that space

Kimberly:                      45:26                Now. You don’t wanna dwell there. It starts to feel gross. It

Erin:                             45:29                Starts to feel gross. And there is there a faster and energy suck? No, and it’s so counterintuitive cuz it kind of feels good and you feel seen and you feel like, you know, understood when you’re in these really complaining moments. But actually it has the opposite effect you leave and you feel tired and negative.

Kimberly:                      45:46                You don’t wanna connect in that place.

Erin:                             45:48                Yes, that’s right. And so you wanna make sure that you’re, you know, again, net net leave eating with positivity whenever possible. Um, you, you have to make sure that you know that your, your trust, you know, that, that people feel safe with you. And I think with, with groups of friends, what happens a lot is somebody will tell you something and not necessarily, you’re not turning around and saying it in a, oh, I’ve got gossip, but you start sharing things that are. Yeah. And all of a sudden it’s, it’s amazing how that happens without us really paying attention. And then now other people’s businesses all over the place, this is a major violation in our relationship. Right? Yeah. And again, it might not feel like the biggest deal, but it’s that death by a and cuts. And when you start, you know, when somebody tells you something, it should stay with you, unless hundred percent person is explicitly said otherwise. Right. And I think we decorate a lot of these things and we, we do it out of like, oh, I’m just talking about this. Cause I’m concerned for her. Ugh, stop.

Kimberly:                      46:49                No, you know, in the other one, Erin, it’s like, everybody’s on, on their own journey. But,

Erin:                             46:54                But

Kimberly:                      46:54                There’s the,

Erin:                             46:55                But the caveat and I know better, you know? And it’s like, so you really gotta pay attention to that because again, you know, that really harms the relationship. Yeah. And that’s how you can get again, when you, you, you wake up one day and you look at it and go, how did we get here? Well, these are all the little fit ways you got there. Yes. And you just weren’t paying attention.

Kimberly:                      47:14                I can get and goosebumps. So, um, you know, brings to my, a personal situation with me with a, you know, with someone who does do that. Yeah. And trust is such a huge thing for me that I’ve worked to build up in my life because I didn’t have a, you know, I didn’t, I wasn’t raised with a lot of trust.

Erin:                             47:30                Right.

Kimberly:                      47:31                Um, so when someone does something like that, Like if I don’t trust it’s that person, I don’t really, I don’t really wanna be around them too much.

Erin:                             47:39                Yeah. No, absolutely. It’s, it’s, it’s a cornerstone of a good relationship. And actually you said something that’s that, that, I’m glad you brought up. Another thing about in the self, it kind of audit in the self-analysis piece is how did you grow up? And I have a first, a whole chapter on first friendships. And what was, you know, the attachment style you had with your, you know, when you were brought into the world with your caregivers, is that a, you know, a secure attachment was that, were your parents or caregivers not there for you, would you have an avoid an has, what are you bringing into your relationship? Cause that’s really, that’s really foundational to how you go out and operate in the world. Also. How did your parents or caregivers model friendship for you, um, in their own world, you know? Yes. And are you just being guided by somebody else’s behavior or does that behavior really speak to you? Right? Yes. And so I could grew up, for example, with a mom that’s over social constantly having dinner parties and cooking and da, da, and it was like, looks so fun and amazing. And so I was like constantly trying to do that. And yet I’m not, when I sat down with it, I was like, wait, but I’m not that person. Yeah. And so, but I’d been colored for, you know, my whole twenties was like, let me try and be the hostess with the mostess. And this is not who I am.

Kimberly:                      48:52                Right. But was she, was she present with you besides being social? Was she like a

Erin:                             48:57                Present mother? Yeah, she, yes. Oh, she was present with me a hundred percent. So, but you can see that I see all the time a mother that is out there in the world, very social and totally disconnected with her children. And that has a huge impact on the way, major conflicting inform into that child right out there being loving and caring the mother and, and social and, and then completely, um, avoidant when at home. And so, yeah, very conflicted. And if you understand that that’s kind of how you were raised, then you can also understand how you’re showing up, um, in your current relationships and your current friend ships. And that’s something that you can really do for the relationships. If you haven’t done it already is look at like, okay, what, you know, those fundamental foundational years of childhood, what was going on with me, you know? Yeah. How, how

Kimberly:                      49:44                Reflection so

Erin:                             49:45                Important, so important, because often we’re bringing that into the relationship completely current relationships. Totally subconscious.

Kimberly:                      49:52                Yeah. Yeah. It’s like the awareness comes awareness for, Right. And I think that looking at your relationships, obviously your friendships is such a powerful mirror right today. And like, and you also have, you know, really great information on here about how to make new friends. Right. Because that’s the other part, if it’s not serving you, you don’t have to stay stuck. And that’s such an empowering yeah. And reminder for people.

Erin:                             50:14                Yeah. And you can actively go out and choose people and relationships that who are serving you. Right. You just because you know, you might have grown out of, uh, legacy friendships or existing friendships doesn’t mean you’re gonna have some hole there forever. The next step of that is now let me go out and put my energy out in the world and attract people that really the relationships serve me. And so not always easy to do, but necessary.

Kimberly:                      50:41                Yes. I went through the, like a huge, I wish I had your book when I got back from backpack. So I went to college, Erin and I was big partier. Then I came, I went backpacking for three years. Yeah. It was supposed to be a few weeks. And then I came back and I was in New York city and some of my college friends were there. Yeah. And then I started to hang out with them and I was like, oh my God, they’re where we were in college. Right. So it was the bars and the shots and all this stuff. And meanwhile, I just come from India. Right. And like camping in Africa for seven months. And I was sitting here reading my Yogananda books and it really was so painful Erin. I was like, yeah, you know, my, what I, my sisters, like my best friends in college, I don’t really feel close to them. Right. So there was this real emptiness. Yeah. But then I got into, you know, yoga. I was doing Austin as in teaching. And then I, you know, befriend these incredible people from my yoga studio, right. There was this new, um, it was just like a whole new world opened up. Right. But it came from that clarity

Erin:                             51:36                Sure. And exact exactly. And that, that, without having that clarity people, you know, you’d be still pulled in the direction of, of, of, of the college friends and, or have half, you know, half your body with the college and half in the new world. And, and that’s, again, letting life happen to you as opposed to making choices, you made a choice. And I mean, obviously reaped the benefits,

Kimberly:                      51:57                Right?

Erin:                             51:58                Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not talking materially, but I mean you’re life

Kimberly:                      52:02                Oriented. Yes. Oh yes. Yes. I just, you know, now we’ve, you know, we live in this place that feels really, you know, at home, right. To me in my heart. And, um, yeah, you just, you connect with people over time. Right. But I just, I love this book so much, Erin, thank you so much for putting this out into the world. Thank you. How to break up with your friends. And I love the subtitle finding meaning connection and boundaries and modern friendships. So thank you for writing a guide, because like you said, I’ve never really come across a book like this. I don’t think anyone’s giving us the structure for this part of empowerment of our lives.

Erin:                             52:36                Thank you so much. Yeah. That’s what the book is really meant to it’s to get the conversation started and some really practical tips on, on then how to go out and actually activate these ideas.

Kimberly:                      52:46                Oh yeah. No, I’m all about practical because I think theory is great. What we need to, we need the guidance. We need to know what

Erin:                             52:51                To do. Exactly.

Kimberly:                      52:53                So Erin, tell us where we can find out more information about your work and your, your first book as well.

Erin:                             52:58                Yeah. So, um, the books and everything I do are at erinfalconer.com and then I’m on social, all things, uh, at Erin Falconer or at pick the brain. And my blog is pickthebrain.com

Kimberly:                      53:10                Easy. Thank you so much, mama for being here.

Erin:                             53:12                Thank you so much.

Kimberly (03:52):Alright my loves. I hope you enjoyed our interview today. As much as I enjoyed the conversation with Erin, please be sure to check out her information. Please be sure to check out the new book, how to break up with your friends over at mysolluna.com. We will have show notes with links, to other podcasts, articles, recipes, meditations, all sorts of resources. So be sure to check that out as well. I’ll be back here Thursday for our next Q and a podcast to then take care, see one social and so much love. Now. Must.