Moving Through the Stages of Grief When Losing a Pet/Loved One with Hubby Jon Bier [Episode #799]

This week’s topic is: Moving Through the Stages of Grief When Losing a Pet/Loved One with Hubby Jon Bier

I’m very excited to have my husband, Jon, back on the show today talking about grief, and some ways that have helped us move through this very strong sensation of grief, including personal experiences. We just lost our family dog a few weeks ago, which was really Jon’s baby. He got Jackie, our dog when he was just a small puppy and has been with Jon for over 10 and a half years.

It’s been quite emotional. It’s still new, it’s raw, and it’s interesting watching Jon move through the stages of grief, the anger, the guilt, and these different phases. And just from having remembrances when my dad and I were moving through the loss of my mother.

Whether you have gone through grief or you know someone that’s going through grief, we’re all going to experience it. Our intention with this show is to help support in any way through sharing experiences in the real time, in real life. And so I’m very excited to share today’s show with you.

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Other Podcasts you may enjoy!:

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Transcript:

Note: The following is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate. This is due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

Kimberly: 00:01 Hello, loves and welcome back to our Monday interview show. I’m very excited to have my husband, John, back on the show today talking about grief, talking about how we move through it some ways that have helped us move through this very strong sensation of grief, including personal experiences. We just lost our family dog a few weeks ago, which was really John’s baby. He got Jackie, our dog when he was just a small puppy and has been with John for over 10 and a half years. And so it’s been quite emotional. It’s still new, it’s raw, and it’s interesting watching John move through the, the stages of grief, the anger and the guilt and these different phases. And just from having remembrances when, you know, my dad and I were moving through the loss of my mother. So whether you have gone through grief or you know, someone that’s going through grief or something, we’re all gonna experience. Our intention with this show is to help support in any way through sharing experiences in, in the real time, in real life. And so I, um, I’m very excited to share today’s show with you.

Fan of the Week

01:12  Before we get into it, I wanted to give a shout out to our fan of the week. Her name or his name or, um, the name of our, uh, reviewer today is tamhow10. And the review is just love your podcast. You truly are an inspiration. Thank you and thank you tamhow10, wherever you happen to be in the world. I send you so much love and so much gratitude for our connection really means the world. So my hands are on my heart right now, wherever you happen to be. Thank you. And for your chance, my love to also be shouted out as the fan of the week, which is really about coming in energetic, um, or adding your energy into the community, which is really what reviews are.

Leave a Review on iTunes

02:17 Support. Thank you in advance. You leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to her show on Spotify or Apple or wherever. It’s a wonderful way to support. So thank you so much in advance and please subscribe to the show so you stay in the flow. Please share this episode with anyone you think move, that could use the support with grief or any episode that you think could support anyone else. We’re all in this interconnected web of energy and connection, so it’s really important to share resources and every day I realize the truth of that is a fundamental part of our wellness and

Kimberly: 02:58 Interconnection with others. Remember that we have our Thursday show as a q and a show, so you could submit questions over@mysauna.com. Remember that we have many resources over there for you, such as other podcasts, articles, our amazing, gut focused, incredibly designed supplements for recreating, rebalancing your gut microbiome, cleansing, wastes from your system and bloat, helping your body to metabolize better and assimilate more nutrients. We’ve got SPO, probiotics, our Detoxy, and our digestive enzymes, as well as courses, high performance skincare, many other offerings. So you can check them all out@mysaluna.com. All right, all that being said, let’s get into our show today with my hubby John, talking about grief.

Interview with Jon Bier on Moving Through the Stages of Grief When Losing a Pet/Loved One

Kimberly: 00:02 Here we are back again. Hubby is back on the show. Thank you, my love for coming over to my office, my side of the house. I’m excited to have you back.

Jon: 00:12 Oh yeah. It’s great to be back. Smells like a spawn here. As usual

Kimberly: 00:16 <laugh>. It is my special space, and I’m excited to talk about grief with you today and all the ways it manifests in our life. This was prompted by happening in our personal family life where we recently lost our dog, which was really your dog baby, your first baby. And it’s been challenging. I know. It’s been, it’s also very fresh. So thank you for coming on with us today. I think a lot of people can relate. Talked about last year before I’ve shared about losing my mom and you know, pets are obviously an extension of the family. There’s so much love there. So, um, yeah, there’s, there’s a lot to share about this. And I know you’re still probably in a really raw place, babe.

Jon: 01:10 Yeah. I think, um, this is gonna be a pretty emotional episode and, uh, we’ll do our best. We might not publish it, you know, like if we’ll see what, we’ll see what happens, I guess.

Kimberly: 01:25 Well, I think it’s okay to be emotional and real, and I think sometimes we’re used to always seeing the clean, the, the mask, the, you know, the polished podcasts and social media posts. So I think that it’s really beautiful to connect. So, um, you know, where we begin, the first thing I think is sort of waking up to wow, surprise, unexpected. You know, we, we think life is going a certain way and then there’s always this, um, you know, we, we don’t expect to lose a loved one whenever we do. And so it sort of jolts us back into the truth that, wow, you know, it’s like every day, every year we really, you know, we hear this sometimes, but that we can’t really take life for granted. And it, you know, I know when my mom passed away, it really changed my whole life as I’ve shared here before I ended up moving out on my own. I created this whole new life because there was parts of my life that were quite stagnant. So, can you, can you share a little bit about that perspective of surprise and how, you know, uh, you know, this was unexpected. We, you know, Jackie or dog was there and then the next day found him and, you know, just sort of anything you wanna share around that element.

Jon: 02:58 Um, you know, I don’t know if surprise is what it was. I, I don’t think it was surprise for me. Um,

Kimberly: 03:10 What was it?

Jon: 03:18 It was like very immediately, um, like deep sadness and, and guilt more than anything else.

Kimberly: 03:32 So some of these, um, psychologists, some of these theorists that I love very much and call, um, including Dr. David Hawkins, talks a lot about guilt. And it’s sort of this spontaneous reaction. I think a lot of us have guilt manifest as, oh, I’m still here. You know, you’re gone. There’s this guilt. I know there’s a lot of guilt that my dad and I worked through when my mom passed away. Like, oh, maybe we could have done this differently. Or maybe this or this. Um, so I think it’s a pretty common part of the grief process as we sort of turn into like, oh, what could I have done differently?

Jon: 04:14 Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s quite layered. You know, I remember when I, when I found his body and, um, you know, I started holding him once, you know, I’d, I’d realized that he had passed cuz he was lying in kind of an awkward position peacefully on his bed. But I was like, he wouldn’t have lied in that position. And, and then I touched him and he was, you know, cool. Um, but I still felt like he was there. It didn’t feel like you, you see like a corpse and you’re like, the soul is gone. Like, it really, I mean, I was holding him, you know, and it felt like I was holding him Mm. And you know, I was kissing him and it wasn’t like gross, you know, like it’s, people think, I think like, you know, that. But, um, I remember just, you know, crying and, and saying, I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

Kimberly: 05:08 Yeah. So it’s, it’s really, um, you know, there’s just, there’s just so much about, I think this, this idea of, of loss and it’s, you know, wakes us, wakes us up to the fact that life is transitory and things are always shifting and changing. And there’s this, that part of grief I found I’ve personally found to be very difficult when we’re in this guilt face. And it’s, you know, when my mom, it was like, oh, maybe I should have made her get a colonoscopy earlier. Or maybe like, I don’t know. I could have changed her diet earlier. Maybe there was things we could have done. But the truth is, and this is where Dr. Hawkins has helped me so much in the process, is that this, we move through the guilt phase with deep acceptance that, you know, we’re not in control of everything, and this is part of a bigger plan because we can have what ifs all day long. Right. But the reality is, you know, what is present, what is now.

Jon: 06:14 Yeah. Um, I think that it feels, you know, different, you know, like when you were a child, it was your mom’s job to take care of you. Yeah. And now, as an adult child, it was no longer her job to take care of you, but it wasn’t your job to take care of her either. You know? And, um, and I’m not comparing the loss, I’m comparing the, you know, where the emotion is Yes. Where the guilt is coming from, and like, when you, when you have to, like a, a dog is a, is a child of sorts. And when your child, you know, um, you’re, I was, I was in charge of that child mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, you know, like he ate something that, you know, I think that he ate something that, you know, caused him to cause him to pass. And he’d done that many times.

Kimberly: 07:21 He had many surgeries

Jon: 07:22 And he had many surgeries. But it’s like your kid gets into the poison under the sink still, you know, you’re gonna have guilt and there’s just no, there’s no way around it. And yes, he was a dog that would, you know, hed go through boxes and he would find whatever was in there, and he would literally eat whatever. Um, but when you’re in charge of caring for something, it’s, it’s your job to make sure those boxes aren’t there, you know? And, um,

Kimberly: 07:57 Let you know, I just, if I could just provide a little context here Yeah. Because this is where the mind goes, right. The mind goes, which is the ego goes to this blowing up of the self and almost the self-importance, you know, the, the part that we play mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So the context is that the nature of Jackie was to consume, and when he was I think two years old, he had his first surgery from eating a whole corn on the cob. Might was he two?

Jon: 08:22 It wasn’t a whole, it was just a small piece that, you know, he

Kimberly: 08:24 Well, right. Like a, like a th like a corn on the cob. Yeah. Like a piece. And then he ate another corn on the cob. So he had another surgery, and then he had a third sur third surgery when we were already at this house. I forgot what he ate, but at that point, I remember you telling me that the vet, the surgeon said his intestines are sort of this almost like this web put Yeah. Together. Yeah. And so I had seen him break into boxes that I, no idea how he smelled. There was a box of chocolate someone sent me once and he ate it, which he had to then go to the vet. It elevated his heart rate. And so this was, you know, a stack of boxes. And he somehow got in, he’s also over 10 years old. He wasn’t super young. And he smelled this box with, had plastic around some candy that we had for Moses’ pinata mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so the mind goes to like, oh, I should have done this. Like, da da da. But then when you expand it out, it’s like he was gonna eat something. You know, there’d been so many surgeries

Jon: 09:22 I knew. And so that’s part of the guilt. Right. And I knew, like, when I talked about it when he was still alive, I was like, he’s gonna eat something. Yes.

Kimberly: 09:29 You know?

Jon: 09:29 Um, but you don’t really believe it until it happens. And that’s, so that’s one part of the guilt. The other part of the guilt is that, um, you know, before I met you, I slept in bed with Jack. Jack was much more of a important fixture in my life at that time. I, I relied on him, um, as like a real on, as a companion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that like, you know, you and, and the, and our family have taken up part of that, you know, time, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I don’t know if time is the right word, but you know what I mean, part of that box. And, uh, so it’s partially about, you know, not, you know, being there for him in the same way that I was there for him in the early days because my, my life evolved. And there is just a reality that instead of being the most important thing in my life mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he was now the fourth most important thing.

Kimberly: 10:38 Yeah.

Jon: 10:38 You

Kimberly: 10:38 Know, and it’s the natural

Jon: 10:40 Progression and I understand that, but there’s still, you know, uh, there’s still guilt associated. And then when I think about it at my most conscious, you know, and then, and then there’s wait, there’s, I just want to get through all the guilt. Cause there’s, there’s a lot. And I, I see both sides, you know, um, we go to Hawaii Yeah. Quite often. And we would have conversations about, well, would we do with Jack for this or for that, or for this, you know, I would boredom at, you know, a really fancy place, uh, and where he would get really world class training. And it was amazing. It was like a couple hundred dollars a day, you know. And, um, and he loved it. But, um, there was an element of like, this is my baby. And, you know, um, and my life has shifted a little bit. And there he was objectively, you know, a bit more of a burden than he had been previously. Dogs are always at some point in your life Yes. A burden. But

Kimberly: 11:43 This, there’s a lot of practical details. Yeah. Because we’re going so much. Yeah.

Jon: 11:47 And so I do think that when I digest this fully, you know, I think he, that, um, I had a family that a lot of the things that he was providing,

Kimberly: 12:04 Yes, I know babe. It’s, it’s this, this flow and Yeah. Transition.

Jon: 12:13 Um, a lot of the things that he was providing, I was getting. And I think that, you know, his life was in service to me. And that’s the beauty of Dacus. That’s what they, that’s what they are. Their lives are in service to you. Um, even though you think they’re, you know, they’re your babies, um, their lives are literally in service to you. And I think on some level, you know, he really, he knew that. And, um, one of the, one of the things that I’m grateful for is that on his last day, you know, we went for a walk. We had a meal. We played a little bit for the first time. Cause he wasn’t feeling good. You know, Moses was playing with him cuz, you know, he was a little pit bull and he was strong. And I just wouldn’t, we wouldn’t let him around the kids.

13:04 But I knew he wasn’t feeling great. And so Moses was petting him Yeah. For about 15 minutes for the first time ever. Yeah. And we walked and we, you know, um, I took a photo of him at about 4:00 PM um, cuz I thought it, it was Memorial Day and I thought that something’s wrong. I was like, I had a little bit of intuition around it. And I said, you know, he’s acting weird. He’s acted weird in the past. And I was like, if he’s gonna be act if he’s acting weird in the morning, I’ll take him to the bed in the morning. Which I’ve done many times. And sometimes I come in there in the morning and he’s jumping around. Um, but like it did cross my mind, uh, that, you know, because I was also, you know, I think a little bit intuitive and a little bit paranoid.

13:50 It’s not the only, it’s not the first time that I’ve taken a photo of him Yeah. And been like, is that the last photo of Jack? And, um, so he had a, a nice last day. And, uh, he, he seemed unco. He seemed like, just like he was lying in a weird place, but he, he wasn’t like, you know, crying or he didn’t look like he was in an enormous amount of pain. Yes. And um, so hopefully he didn’t, he didn’t suffer very long. And uh, I’m grateful to have had that that last day with him. You

Kimberly: 14:29 Know, it’s, this, the parallels a little bit when we talk about the journey you and Jack were on, and I remember you were living in Brooklyn. You got him as a tiny puppy. I didn’t know you back then, but you mentioned, you know, you had him and he was living with you and he’d be with you all day. And then you move together to LA and I think that can be a pretty lonely move sometimes because LA is so spread out. It’s different than New York. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, where you’re on the subway around lots of different people. So anyways, also at that time, um, when I met you, you were a bachelor, <laugh>, and a self-proclaimed bachelor and just kind of living this really free life and going on road trips and doing all these things. And Jack was with you all the time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

15:10 And then there was this really natural progression into getting married. You know, I already had ee having another child. So you were in this situation, now you have two kids. And so, you know, there’s this natural, beautiful, but also the grief of oh my gosh. Like I couldn’t keep him the same way. And so the peril, I think about when you were talking, I was thinking about my mom, right? Like you said, when we’re growing up with our parents, we’re with him every day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we’re living with him in the house. And then I had these years where I was backpacking. I didn’t see my mom a lot. And then there was times where I saw her more than others and then I moved to LA mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. So there’s this like, ooh, like, you know, that mind goes into the past of like, it could have been different.

15:54 Like maybe I should have stayed closer to home or I should have stayed. Right. Same thing with what you were seeing with Jack. But then it’s like, like we said, when we digest this in the wider perspective is that would be against the flow of life. Like, it was, it was cracking open, it was evolving into something else and it just wasn’t possible. You know, it doesn’t, and I understand why the guilt is there in the initial stages, but like you said, it wasn’t possible for Jackie to be around the children. We were, you know, there was a safety concern. Um, it’s, you know, it sucks that it’s sort of in, you know, ways we look at it in that way. But it was also just this unfolding. And I look at how Jackie, like you said, he was with these amazing trainers and he had the free reign of our land here. Um, we have about an acre so that he wasn’t like cooped up. He had this land and he had this amazing food. But, you know, that’s I think part of accepting change and transition and how it affects our loved ones Yeah. Can be tough.

Jon: 16:58 Yeah. So then the mind wanders and it’s like, why? Cuz you know, he was 10 and a half, but puppy energy. So it’s like, how many years did, and then they’re like, would I feel better? Because your mind plays these weird, you know, scenarios and they’re like, would I be feeling better about this if he had declined gradually? You know, instead of, uh, um, instead of going with basically, you know, just very healthy life minus, you know, three big surgeries that he healed from within, you know, a few days every time. Cuz he was a savage. Um, a very healthy life where he was really, really loved. Um, but then I’m like, what would this, would I feel better of this? Or would I feel better of that? Or what years was I robbed of? Or, um, all the things that your mind can, can create. Um,

Kimberly: 17:55 It’s, you know, it’s funny because again, and I never thought about the parallels until this very conversation we’re having right now, but my mom the same way, I was shocked that she was sick because we saw her Christmas and she was energetic. And one time she mentioned being tired walking down to the beach. But you know, up until that point I was still doing some client work and she was helping me cook and do all this stuff. And she was active until, you know, February is when I found, we found out that she actually mid-February is that she had cancer and then she passed in March. Right. So she was like this fullness of life and then it was extinguished. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And now I’ve had, um, six years to process her loss. And we don’t get to choose. Right. We don’t get to choose the way, but the beauty that I saw, it was this, you know, this life lived and then it transitioned.

18:46 And so, so that’s sort of how I think about Jack sometimes again, we don’t get to choose and there’s always, you know, pros and cons and ways we can look at it. But I feel like if he was in pain for a long time and I’ve had, you know, friends that have dogs that are cancer and decline mm-hmm. <affirmative> and lots of painkillers and all the things. I mean, I’m not sure buying time like that, having more time, that’s sort of our attachment, right? Yeah. Which is the next thing to talk about. Like how we want, we want it to be the same way. We don’t want them to leave. But then there is this, the soul’s journey, which is so much more than us.

Jon: 19:24 Well, that’s the other side of this is that this is where, you know, believing in whatever you want to call it, spirit,

Kimberly: 19:34 Higher power,

Jon: 19:34 Higher power comes in really handy. Um, because I do believe he’s in bliss. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there’s no part of me that that doesn’t think that. And I do know that me and you and I have talked about this and you kind of helped me, um, you know, digest this perspective that my sadness right now be it guilt and, and, and, and, and sorrow, um, is for me mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s not for him. He’s in bliss.

Kimberly: 20:11 Exactly.

Jon: 20:13 Um, this is, this is for me. And, um, it’s still there. You know, I compartmentalize really well. So I can go about my day and work and, um, function completely perfectly. And then something will trigger something and I’ll, I’ll have like a few moments a day. Um, but I also like, I want to have those moments, you know, like that these moments are me like really feeling him. And, um, yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m grateful for, you know, these, these feelings also.

Kimberly: 21:03 Yes. So the first part, like you said, and that was, that was something I came to over time, not right away that, oh, my mom is in bliss and I miss her. I wanna wish I know, I wish I could call her. I want her to see, you know, ee walk. I mean, she never met Moses. Right? So we think about the loss from our standpoint, but then it’s this zooming out, it’s this expansion that Yogananda talks about the true self, which is this energy inside of us that’s connected to all the energies. It’s way more than the mind can perceive this zooming out is the truth that, oh, that soul is transitioning in their journey. And, um, that’s beautiful. And I’m really happy for them. We eventually we get to that point. It takes a while, but it was something that I kept reminding myself of time and time again, and I would let myself feel and I would let the process happen, but I actually found a lot of comfort in reminding myself, oh, I’m actually crying for myself. Yeah. You know, because Jackie is in bliss and he doesn’t have a body with a, who knows, like, you know, his, his kind of messed up nervous or digestive system might have given him a lot of pain and cramps and discomfort and it could have, you know, continued and, you know, it was just this ready for this. Um, you know what my friend, the writer Gary Jansen says A new life. Yeah. Like, there’s always a new life in this transition.

Jon: 22:34 It’s funny, um, when I first got him, it’s just me, you know, I was looking at what are these custom beds I can get him and custom collars and researching, you know, the type of dog he was and things associated with them and trying to get a sense of his personality and, and, and doing all that. And, uh, now that he’s passed, I’m like looking at, well, um, looking at the types of urns that I’m gonna put him in and, you know, I’m actually like, you know, having a statue made in his likeness for the garden. And that’s for me, obviously. Yes. Beautiful. Uh, I haven’t, you know, I haven’t changed much in that regard in the last 10 years.

Kimberly: 23:25 So one of the gifts of grief is that as we move through it, and I have found this absolutely true in my personal experience, a great power comes inside. We can, we connect to the power that’s inside of us, realizing that we are strong to get through the things that we fear the most in life. Lo losing loved ones, having situations change. Like all the things we have all this fear about once you go through it once, it doesn’t mean it’s not hard. Of course, again, if it hap you know, when and if it happen will happen in some context, you know, in some ways in the timing of which it’s meant. But once you go it through it, once there’s this sort of, um, you know, this connection to, oh wow, I’m stronger than I thought I was, because I can get through the difficult things in life. I can get through this and I can still be okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> life does go on. Of course life does shift and it changes. And it doesn’t mean we don’t miss them, but

24:36 You know, this, this infusion of of power, it, you know, and I asked you like, how did this, you know, surprise sort of change? And you said it wasn’t a surprise for you. It felt like a surprise to me because it was like, oh, life was kind of going on and on and on. And then what happened when it, you know, it just sort of woke me up and I did become more present. I think I started using my voice more and I started looking and seeing more clearly, and a lot of things started to unfold. So I think, you know, there is beauty in all these different aspects of life as well.

Jon: 25:08 Yeah. I, I don’t look at it, um, from the perspective of, um, like realizing that I’m strong enough to, to handle something like that. Um, I think, um, it’s just not something that that crosses my mind. Um, I think I feel strong enough to handle those things. Um, but what I, it’s making it’s perspective, right? So it’s making, uh, other things

Kimberly: 25:45 Mm.

Jon: 25:46 Less significant and, uh, other problems, you know, less significant and just, you know, giving me, um, in a positive way. Um, and, um, I think giving me confidence in, in other areas, um, uh, yeah, I haven’t, I haven’t really fully digested that yet, but, uh, I feel it.

Kimberly: 26:15 I think it comes down to how, you know, just different kinds of emotional intelligence and how, you know, tools we’ve had and our upbringing. And, you know, for me, I realized that part of the way I would sort of protect myself or survive was to not feel big feelings. You know, realizing it now, like some of the trauma that I, you know, process as an adult is around that sort of avoiding overwhelm and big feelings. So for me it was this, I remember going through the grief and, you know, we knew she was about to pass and there was this almost like, you know, you close your eyes on the rollercoaster. Like, no, no, no, I don’t want this, I don’t want this, I don’t want this. So I, for me it was like, it’s happening. Like you’re getting pushed off the cliff whether you want to or not. Yeah. And I didn’t want it to happen. And I, you know, once it happened, that’s where for me, you know, I was like, oh wow. I am strong enough to handle it. Um, but I know we all come from a different background, babe. And so for you it might’ve just felt like, you know, you are more vulnerable, you are more used to dealing with big feelings. So like you said, it wasn’t, it was a bit different.

Jon: 27:27 Well, the big feelings that I’m, I’m not, you know, particularly good at dealing with big feelings. I mean, I, I deal with the feelings that come the most naturally to me, which are, is usually things that should come out as sadness come out as anger. Yeah. Cause I’m more familiar with anger. It’s a more comfortable feeling for me to feel because, um, it doesn’t require vulnerability. And even when Jack passed, if you remember those first, like, it was like a weird mix of like the first, like hour or two where it was like kind of a mixture of sadness and anger. Yeah. And then very quickly the anger, uh, went away completely. Like within an hour it was just sadness. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which was, which is what it is right now. Which, um, again, is, is a little bit of a blessing just because, um, I don’t go there that often. You know, I, I I tend to, I tend to go to, if I’m going to a big feeling like that, um, it’s usually on the anger side for, even though often those big feelings should be Yeah. The anger and sadness are just, you know, they’re very similar.

Kimberly: 28:42 Well, I think feelings. Exactly. And they say that depression is anger sort of suppressed. Yeah. And it’s interesting and, you know, not putting it in, you know, oversimplifying it to say like men or women or different, you know, types of people per se. But I think a lot of men or people with a lot of masculine energy do go to that anger place. Cuz I remember when my mom passed and I was holding her and my dad was across the room and I called him over. I’m like, she left. But I was immediate, I was like in shock, but soft and like, oh, like the crying came a little bit later. But my dad did have an angry moment. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he slapped the side of the bed or the desk and like, ooh. Like there was this anger energy that I didn’t experience. So again, I think it’s, it’s just energy moving through, right.

29:36 Emotions are energy and motion. So it’s like, how do we deal with it? But one thing I know for sure, um, and this, these are the practices that really helped me from the letting go book, is to stay with the sensation. Right? So whenever I would feel sad about my mom and it could have been, you know, in the middle of a podcast or just holding Emerson at the time or whatever, I would feel it and I, you know, sometimes I would have to put him down or whatever it was. But I would let myself have that moment mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it did start to digest through. I think, I mean, there’s no timing per se, but sometimes we hear about people that are, you know, in grief for 20 years. Like they haven’t gone over their wife passing Yeah. Or whatever it is. So, however the sensation is, it’s this emotional digestion. And of course, sometimes, you know, we may need a counselor or a therapist. I worked with a healer to help me move through it. So support can be really helpful in grief at times. But, um, you know, my, my personal experience was sort of staying in it. Cuz then, you know, Hawkins says he gets to the bottom of the, well, eventually you keep digesting and digesting, then it doesn’t mean things don’t crop up. But the big grief, you know, we, we digest through that emotional fa facing it. Mm-hmm.

Jon: 31:00 <affirmative>.

Kimberly: 31:01 Yeah. So it’s so raw and new for you baby. And I know it’s a lot and I’ve watched you through this and I just wanna say it’s a really beautiful, I don’t, you know, I don’t just word proud or proud, you know, pride can evoke egoic things, but just this, this way that you’ve been really authentic and I see you being authentic in front of our kids and showing them it’s okay to feel sadness. You know, Papa is sad about Jackie and it’s okay to show feelings and emotions because I think, you know, the family, everyone can feel authenticity and it’s important to show it’s okay to have this range of feelings. And that’s part of life. Life is not just gonna be, you know, happy all the time. It’s not just gonna be laughter. Um, so it’s just beautiful to see how you’ve, you’ve gone through it and like you said, you moved through the anger and there’s still some guilt, but it’s, you know, moving into the sadness and the loss of this, you know, the transitory nature of life and how you’re honoring Jackie, I think is beautiful too. You know, it feels really good to you to have this statue made and <laugh>. I’m really excited. I think it’s gonna be really cool. Tattoo a tattoo, you’re putting it on your leg. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so these are ways that are helping you feel like you’re really keeping him a lot, his energy alive in, in your life. Yeah.

Jon: 32:28 What’s interesting is, I’m, I’m, uh, cuz we got his ashes and I’m not that attached to the ashes.

Kimberly: 32:36 Yeah. Um, me neither.

Jon: 32:38 But like if given the chance to either have them or not have them, obviously I have them, but I’m not that attached to ’em. But like, I’m actually excited about the statue. Yeah. I’m excited about the tattoo. I feel like, um, it is, you know, kind of just having him on me and there’s the, you know, the little things like, um, you know, he scratched the door once and so now we have those scratch marks on the door. Yeah. I’m like, I love, I love those scratch marks. Yeah. You know, like that, that was an annoying at the time that he scratched the door. But even at the time I was like, one day we’re gonna love those scratch marks. Mm. And um, yeah. I mean he was really a blessing in my life.

Kimberly: 33:23 You know, it’s funny you mentioned that about the Ashes because when we first moved in here about three years ago, there was not a huge, it was fairly far away, but there was a like a fire warning and it was like this moment of like, what am I, what are we gonna take? What’s the most important things? Yeah. And it was like, okay, there’s like, take your passport. But then my mind went to, um, my parents’ wedding album and it went to like pictures that didn’t have a digital backup or whatever. Yeah. And not until this moment did I realize I never once thought, oh, let me grab my mom’s ashes. Right. It was more these memories of her life. And it was also jewelry, like some important jewelry pieces I have. Like, those were very high on my list, irreplaceable items from my mom. But I connected, I connect more to the, the life and it’s personal because some people are very like the, the ashes give them great, great comfort. Yeah. And they scatter them and that’s beautiful too. So I just point this out to say it’s very individual Yes. How we connect and it’s all beautiful. It’s all okay.

Jon: 34:30 Yeah. Uh, a friend of mine was, was telling me a story the other day that, uh, her mom passed. Um, and they had planned all these trips and so now she’s been taking the trips and taking parts of the ashes and, and scattering those and I’m like, that’s really? Mm, that’s really beautiful.

Kimberly: 34:50 Yes. And helps her feel

Jon: 34:52 Yeah.

Kimberly: 34:53 The closeness and the honoring and the closure. Um, wow. Well thank you so much babe for coming on here and again, just being very, um, you know, just sharing from this really raw place about this.

Jon: 35:09 Yeah. I knew this one was gonna be, uh, a doozy,

Kimberly: 35:14 But it’s so beautiful to see your,

Jon: 35:15 I feel like I held it together pretty good, right? A couple, you know, a couple moments, but uh, I wasn’t just uncontrollably sobbing the whole time. So that’s

Kimberly: 35:25 <laugh> you were amazing. It’s maybe and your energy and just also to, you know, I’ve talked about grief, but I think it’s, you know, it’s beautiful to share and, you know, different types of energies. You know, on the outset you’re this big strong guy with tattoos and go on <laugh>. But we think like, okay, how does you know someone that may have like a, I say, you know, harder exterior shell, so to speak, you’re also a cancer five star sign. How does someone like that process? Right. And so when we see the softness, we see the commonality of these experiences. They’re different, they look different, um, on the outside. But wow, these big sensations, these big experiences are gonna come through all of us. So the more we share about it, I think it’s, you know, it helps support us as a community as we go through it ourselves.

Jon: 36:19 Yeah. I, I I will say that, um, cause I obviously, you know, I’ve lost friends, I’ve lost grandparents. This is way worse. There’s something about the thing that you care for.

Kimberly: 36:34 Mm.

Jon: 36:34 Even though it’s a dog and not a human, um, the thing that you care for, uh, it just hits different. It just really does.

Kimberly: 36:45 Mm. Thank you so much for sharing from your heart. And I love you very much. I love

Jon: 36:52 You too.

03:56 I hope you enjoyed our show today, our very raw show around processing grief today. And I will mention that we turned the recorder off, that there was a real moment here. I went over to John and he just started releasing and crying. And so thank you for, for listening to this right now. Thank you for being part of the process. We had this conversation and it was in the middle of processing grief as you could feel, and so thank you for being here. Thank you for being part of our community. Please do check out our resources and other shows over on our, on our website, my so luna.com. That’s m y S O L L u N a.com. I look forward to seeing you back here Thursday for our next q and a show. Till then, sending you so much love and so much gratitude. Namaste.